M&B Warband is out

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I've been playing around it with for a few hours, seems like some good stuff. Incorporates stuff from some of the more common mods such as HDR, new nicer textures and a generally slicker graphical presentation. There's a new Mid-East flavored faction in the campaign in addition to a completely overhauled and expanded campaign map, which is pretty nice. The Vaegirs got a much more Russian/Muscovy flavor as well.

Most of the animations are generally much more fluid and blended, though they make combat a bit harder. Fighting from horseback has become surprisingly more difficult; maybe it's just my playstyle but I'm finding it much harder to line up the "drive-by" sword swings which I used to excel at. Lance couching got a retooling and indirect nerf... it seems like a good idea but in practice it feels a bit wonky still.

I haven't tried the multiplayer yet so I can't comment on that; there's still a ton of stuff I need to play with in the campaign. It's become much more political/strategic (if you choose to play that way, which I often do), and they've added a bit more direction and scripted content early on.

[loomer]

Which is the new faction? Don't recall it being in the open beta for multi.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Sassanid Sultanate.

Tried some MP -- friggin' awesome. I only played one game mode, but it was Great so I just stayed on that server for hours. Sometimes it was a messy melee brawl, which was fun, and sometimes it required some intense team tactics, which was also fun. It really highlighted personal skill and teamplay skill, respectively, and how both are important but don't overshadow the other, which is something I really like. You can do well with one even if you're not very good at the other -- a skilled player can fight solo and perform well, while less-skilled players can stick together, work as a team, and bring the pain in their own right.

I wasn't used to the melee friendly-fire, though I managed not to kill any teammates at least. I did see a few people who didn't quite grasp the concept, spamming spear stabs into melees willy-nilly with predictably disastrous results. The importance of secondary weapons is really highlighted in that respect as well. I was playing as a Rhodok spearman and doing pretty well, and it was important to balance two-handed thrusting, spear-and-shield thrusts, and when to switch to my pick-axe.

Good Stuff.

[Vympel]

Sassanid? Wow, they didn't even try with that one. All their other names were fairly original whilst still able to give you a hint of what they were like.

I was just about to post about this when I saw it on Steam - it says its a 'stand alone expansion' - can I import my character / equipment from the original game? Or do I have to start over?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

My bad, it's "Sarranid". Double consonants, pffff.

I don't know if import works or not. Most of the character stats are the same, and all import/export is is just data stored in a plain text file, so I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

Think of it as M&B 1.5. M&B vanilla is obsolete if you get Warband, which does not require vanilla.

[weemadando]

I'm messing about in it. Once again, in Vanilla M&B I last all of about 2 hours before just cheating my guts out. I'm hoping that the 1866 guys can make a quick transition to Warband as that was fairly fun.

That said, my Sarranid is now leading a mercenary cavalry warband around Caladria seeking a weak holding so that he may take it for himself...

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

The "run your own kingdom" stuff is cool, but dangerous. I took a Nord castle while they were busy fighting the Vaegirs... their response? Send an ungodly doom-swarm comprised of every Nord lord's party to siege my new castle... which was originally Swadian anyway.

The good news is that at least Swadian Knights still roflstomp everything in sight. I've recently hit the "critical mass" of Swadian Knights/Men at Arms (about 30 or 40 or so) where I can just roll over 200-300 strong armies with only a handful of casualties, as long as the terrain is open and relatively flat.

[weemadando]

I'm having good luck with Sarranid Mamlukes, but I feel that their lack of lances will lead to them getting murdered as soon as I start getting into any conflict with Swadia.

And can anyone confirm if the Rhodoks are still the red-headed step-children of Caladria?

[weemadando]

I'm also noting a lot more politics. Lords can have varying opinions of their countrymen and leadership, I'm wondering whether or not this will actually be exploitable should I start trying to create my own fief.

Also - holy shit, dudes roll deep in this game. I came across about a dozen nobles of the Sarranids and their armies besieging a Khanate castle which was then counterattacked by about a dozen armies of Khanate blokes. I can see how this could become problematic for anyone wanting to strike out on their own.

There is also a lot more to do now, the "hunt down bandit lairs/bands" and more of the kidnapping/free the kidnappee missions too, rather than just "go and collect taxes/go collect my debt".

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Damn dude, Rhodoks are BOSS. They're my favorite multiplayer faction by far. Good pikemen are MURDER. I don't know how well that translates to the singleplayer, since I've been avoiding fights with them. The crossbows can be pretty nasty too.

And yeah, you can coerce lords through various means to change allegiances, including to your own kingdom. Periodically you'll see traitors and defectors switching sides. In my game the Nords soaked up several lords from other factions, making for some funny fights where I'm up against a mix of Nord, Sarranid, and Rhodok troops.

[weemadando]

Rhodoks I've always found to be really underpowered whenever I've rolled against them in SP. Then again, the two times I've had them as primary rivals I was a) Khergits with nothing but horse archers or b) massed Swadian archers and heavy inf.

And they've been even worse in my own armies. I might have to play about see what I think of them now.

[Feil]

I own the original Mount and Blade. Do I need to buy the expansion, or can I just update it from the original game?

[Commander 598]

It's standalone, totally separate game basically.

[weemadando]

OK, sieges are still completely broken if you do anything half intelligent.

I was attacking a Khanate castle with nothing but 50 dismounted cav and myself as the only ranged unit. They had about 80 defenders with half ranged, half melee. The first group of defenders attempt an ill-advised counter-attack down the ladders towards my still forming army. They get murdered and leave the best chokepoint clear of anyone - so we assault up the ladder against the curtain wall, then along. I jump off the curtain wall after using all my ammo on the poor sods still defending the courtyard. Cue five minutes of me overhead slashing with a double-handed sword any and all idiots who refuse to turn around to face me, rather than trying to crowd up the stairwells towards my men. Massacre is an understatement. I think I lost about 6 guys.

Then the Khanate gets pissed and sends 3 lords with 200+ men to retake it. I'm holding out with 45 dismounted cav (and still only myself as ranged). I position myself at the far end of the curtain wall in a battlement with a clear view of the ladders. I order my men to stay behind cover until the first wave is almost halfway up the ladder, then I tell them to charge. ~40 Mamlukes jam the breach point so full that none shall pass. The first wave dies under a steady hail of arrows and constant hacking from Mamlukes. The successive waves have even less success as I eventually run out of ammo and repeat the "jump down and kill them from behind" routine.

Final tally - complete elimination of the enemy for no losses.

The Khanate just don't seem to have any answer for the mamlukes, as I've been winning 2:1 skirmishes against them with zero casualties on the open field too.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Take away the Khergits' horses and they suck. Thank the gods.

[Lagmonster]

The "There's only one way into the castle" seige gameplay pisses me right off, and I'll be as thankful when someone mods a few more ladders in there as I was when someone modded a few more ladders into the original game.

On open field combat, the game is fun, if a clusterfuck, make no mistake. But a lot more needs to be done with sieges. Battering rams with openable gates (that you could open if you climb a ladder and get inside the walls), pre-seige optional ladder placement, multiple seige towers/ladders if you can build them, etc..

[PainRack]

I'm still on the basic game as opposed to the expansion, but does anyone knows which of the faction infantry is the best?

Also, archers versus crossbows. Which would you take?

[Vympel]

I'm still on the basic game as opposed to the expansion, but does anyone knows which of the faction infantry is the best?

Also, archers versus crossbows. Which would you take?

Honestly? Don't bother with infantry (either ranged or melee) at all. You can clean up with nothing but the indomitable Swadian Knights, so long as you choose your battles (i.e. don't fight on mountainous terrain if you can help it).

Don't get me wrong, I have archers and crossbowmen and a collection of assorted heavy infantry but I keep them in my castles.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Swadian and Rhodok Sergeants are pretty boss, and Nord Huscarls can carve stuff up pretty good as well.

[PainRack]

I'm still on the basic game as opposed to the expansion, but does anyone knows which of the faction infantry is the best?

Also, archers versus crossbows. Which would you take?

Honestly? Don't bother with infantry (either ranged or melee) at all. You can clean up with nothing but the indomitable Swadian Knights, so long as you choose your battles (i.e. don't fight on mountainous terrain if you can help it).

Don't get me wrong, I have archers and crossbowmen and a collection of assorted heavy infantry but I keep them in my castles.

But sieging castles? The potential loss of such valuable men in siege attacks hurts, beside, I really need some ranged troops to help sweep the courtyards.

Ditto to a castle defence. And of course, the wages bit.... I haven't got a castle yet, some far, the King has only given me villages, but I don't wish to imagine how expensive garrisoning such castles could be.

[PainRack]

Swadian and Rhodok Sergeants are pretty boss, and Nord Huscarls can carve stuff up pretty good as well.

Which would you think is an easier choice to level up?
I mean, my main character is established enough that he doesn't have to worry about recruits, but for a new character, finding sufficient recruits and then leveling them up might be a bit difficult. Swadian especially, since any levelled up character will go to knights first.


Also, anyone has any idea how to effectively use Khergit Veteran Horse Archers? I swear, the AI enemy knows how to use them much more effectively than my own party AI. They will kite my troops and barring overwhelming numbers(Low tactics skill.... I know, but I was levelling up Surgery first), its a pain to kill them. Yet, my own party Archers are vulnerable to being overwhelmed, even if they're massively supported by Knights.

[Vympel]

But sieging castles? The potential loss of such valuable men in siege attacks hurts

It never really did for me, really. Swadian Knights (and Vaegir Knights too) are so well-equipped that even dismounted they can carve up most enemy troops, they only start to struggle against the elite enemy infantry.

However, for the purpose of keeping my Knight forces high (I mean fuck I haven't played my game in a while but I have many Knights due to this practice) and not throw them away, keep infantry and archers, and swap them out of your castle only when you intend to engage in a siege.

Ditto to a castle defence. And of course, the wages bit.... I haven't got a castle yet, some far, the King has only given me villages, but I don't wish to imagine how expensive garrisoning such castles could be.

It's not as bad as you might think, since troops left in castles only draw half wages.

If you want quality infantry and archers to defend your castle(s) with, your majority force should still be knights, and what you should do when attacking enemy forces is smash them to pieces yourself, your retainer of NPCs (make sure you get the graph that indicates which NPC doesn't mix with who, you can recruit the vast majority of them without any of them ever leaving) and your mounted troops, then pull away when there's only a few left, and send in the infantry. They build up experience quickly with very few casualties.

[weemadando]

Al Hakim Aziz now holds 3 castles (all in a nice tight cluster) which were granted by the Sultan.

I've got archers and infantry stationed in these with a small reserve of Mamlukes in each to serve as heavy dismounted inf in an emergency. But I roll around with nothing but Mamlukes pretty much. They're just too damn powerful (like the Swadian Knights) to not do this. I've only just started taking Mamluke casualties (took NONE against Khergits) because the Sultanate is now at war with the Rhodoks and Vaegirs.

As for sieges, if you're taking casualties you're doing it wrong. You MUST be the first guy up the ramp. Forget any caution or shit like that. Forget archers, because yours won't do shit against guys in a fortification. You need HEAVY armoured inf and lots of it. But, like I said, you need to be first through and preferably have a big fuck-off two handed weapon that you can just unload with. Just keep hacking and hacking and hacking until there's a chance to break through (or jump over heads) so you can get behind their main line of resistance. Then you can attack their guys from the rear while they try to keep holding the rest of your force back.

[PainRack]

Something that I don't really understand from the FAQs and wikis..... how do party skills complement each other again? Is it highest skill level+ leader skill bonus in the range of +0,1,2 highest skill level+ second highest member adding the party bonus, accumulative so that its highest skill level+ all the other members bonuses.......

[PeZook]

As for sieges, if you're taking casualties you're doing it wrong. You MUST be the first guy up the ramp. Forget any caution or shit like that. Forget archers, because yours won't do shit against guys in a fortification. You need HEAVY armoured inf and lots of it. But, like I said, you need to be first through and preferably have a big fuck-off two handed weapon that you can just unload with. Just keep hacking and hacking and hacking until there's a chance to break through (or jump over heads) so you can get behind their main line of resistance. Then you can attack their guys from the rear while they try to keep holding the rest of your force back.

If I try to do that in Vanilla, I quickly get turned into a pincushion. I just resorted to cheating my way through sieges because of the immensely frustrating way they're handled.