Animes that just didn't know where they were going (spoilers

[Crossroads Inc.]

Last week after a friend recommended it, I found myself watch "Xam'd" on youtube. I heard about it and it seemed interested. At first I thought it would be just another "Guyver" like anime. Teen finds magical bio suit of armor that gives him super powers and finds huge monsters. The first two episodes seemed to establish this, but it soon became quite a bit more. The show seemed to have a strong "What does it mean to be human? What does it mean to be a Monster?" theme going on and by half way through I really was enjoying it.

Then, a bit about two thirds way through, things got weird. the how had a very large cast of characters and after a big fight, almost 2/3 of them are simply 'written out' and we don't see much of them. Suddenly there is talk of "the quickening" a big mysterious thing that up till then we had never heard about. Huge amounts of religious stuff with souls and such gets dumped in, and the next thing I know I feel like I am watching the final book to "Naussica"

The anime starts strong, it bucked what I thought it was going to be, it didn't spoon things to me but made me figure them out. Problem was I suddenly found myself at the End of the Anime, and Still nothing had been all that well explained.

THIS comes shortly on the heals of watching "Wolfs Rain" another anime recommended to me as very good. Which it was, up towards the end when things went form "What is going on? to "WTF Is going on!!!" "The Big-O" much as I love it, also seemed to end this way, but mostly because the show was not given a third season which is when things were supposed ot have been explained.

I wonder how many of oyu have watched some Anime that seemed good and well thought out, only to end up leaving you feeling as though it didn't quite get to end the way it was supposed to.

[Dominus Atheos]

THIS comes shortly on the heals of watching "Wolfs Rain" another anime recommended to me as very good. Which it was, up towards the end when things went form "What is going on? to "WTF Is going on!!!"

Holy shit I hated that about Wolfs rain. I understood almost nothing that was going on. All I could tell was that it was a post apocalyptic wasteland, there were some people who could turn into wolfs or maybe they were wolfs that could turn into humans or maybe they were wolfs that could look like humans while still remaining wolfs or something, there was a moon flower that was somehow a little girl, they were trying to get to paradise but instead all of them died but they didn't die they all went to some city as humans. Seriously, WTF?

Also melody of oblivion, Eureka Seven, FLCL, Midori Days, Sins of the Sisters, Tekkon Kinkreet, and Evangelion (apparently you have to read all the backstory in order to understand the tv show).

Aqua Teen Hunger Force wasn't an anime but I still had no idea what the fuck was going on.

[White Haven]

This...is why I don't watch anime. But they still caught me with the overarcing plot to Xenosaga. Damn you, Japan! *shakefist*

[Nephtys]

Oh, most Anime don't know where they're going. The mark of a good one is one that... does.

Examples of wtf is this...
Hellsing (Really, the manga was on volume TWO when you wrote the TV story)
Speed Grapher (What the hell was the second half?)
Evangelion (Again, what the hell was the second half?)
Code Geass (Ah yes, your second season made no damned sense at all.)
Macross 7 (Whee, let's put 20 episodes of filler before ANY plot!)
Any of those never-ending kids shows involving martial art high schoolers. Sheesh.

Not a comprehensive list or anything. But it shows trends.

[scythewielder]

Yeah, as far as anime is concerned most series are indeed pretty sloppy in terms of execution. Questions are left unanswered, details are forgotten or otherwise end up buried beneath a layer of filler and all other kinds of imaginable distractions. Not exactly a pretty sight and few stand up to strict critical scrutiny.

Still, I don't mind not knowing where the hell something's going while I'm watching it as long as the show's enjoyable enough and I can come up with a decent interpretation after the fact. Case in point: I didn't know what the hell Revolutionary Girl Utena was trying to accomplish back in the day, but when it finally ended I could go and make at least some sense out of the result. Maybe I just like to read too much into things, perhaps, but there it is. Don't ask me to try and explain what every single bit of symbolism meant though, but I happen to think the overall framework worked out alright. Then again, I'm not sure I could say the same about Neon Genesis Evangelion (the series, not including the movies -old or new-) and so on.

Code Geass (Ah yes, your second season made no damned sense at all.)

Call me crazy, but in retrospect I'd say the creators knew where they were going, at least to some extent...they just didn't know how to get there and, all things considered, it's not too surprising given that Sunrise execs messed around with the show between seasons or what have you. Too bad it's more of an explanation than an excuse though and we ended up with a mess of a product. Still, it was fun at the time.

[Guardsman Bass]

I thought that the problem with "Code Geass" was that they didn't plan on having a second season - they thought they were canceled. Then, out of the blue, they did get a second season, so they had absolutely no idea of what they were doing for a while.

[Majin Gojira]

No, there have been several statements released about the sadness the change in time slot brought them.

For one, they couldn't show Kallen topless anymore.

For another, they had to reintroduce the show to others, basically meaning that the first 3rd of the season had to be a retread of the first. This meant that things they planned to explain (like why Suzaku is so Hax) had to be cut.

[Themightytom]

Alllll I'm saying is DragonBallZ had a beginning a middle and an end.

Actually it had a lot of middle.

[Majin Gojira]

Which is why I far prefer the abridged edition of DBZ.

If the live action movie adaptation was even just structured like that (possibly cutting the superfluous characters), it would have been a million times better.

Probably would still suck, though.

[DPDarkPrimus]

It seems to be the case that, more often than not, the last couple episodes of an anime will end up rushing things and have an ending that feels slapped together at the last minute. I don't know why this is the case since unlike a lot of shows, an anime will have a set number of episodes from the beginning of production.

[Archaic`]

Generally, that happens when an anime has been based off a manga or novel franchise that is still currently in production, and/or is too long to have its entire story fit into the standard 11-13 (formerly 24-26, but the days of that length being standard are long gone) episode season. Anime will generally be made without an expectation of a 2nd season, and unless the original story is broken into neat arcs, they essentially need to wrap things up so they actually have an ending as opposed to leaving it open ended.

[Temujin]

Which is why I far prefer the abridged edition of DBZ.

While I don't think your referring to this, the few DBZ movies I've seen actually handled the fight sequences rather well, instead of the ridiculous power up/counter power up crap that would last 20 episodes for a single fight. It's one of the reasons I preferred watching YuYu Hakusho when it was on Cartoon Network.

It seems to be the case that, more often than not, the last couple episodes of an anime will end up rushing things and have an ending that feels slapped together at the last minute. I don't know why this is the case since unlike a lot of shows, an anime will have a set number of episodes from the beginning of production.

I know that the last episode of Big O was a deliberate mind fuck, but for a lot of other anime it may simply be due to a combination of lack of planning, imagination and/or poor writing skills. They start off with a good idea, and then before they know it they have to wrap their shit up in three or four episodes, and they don't have the time and /or the skills to do it properly. It could also be due to production staff being given an idea that was partially fleshed out by someone else, and not really knowing what to do with the story beyond the creators original open ended plot.

Generally, that happens when an anime has been based off a manga or novel franchise that is still currently in production, and/or is too long to have its entire story fit into the standard 11-13 (formerly 24-26, but the days of that length being standard are long gone) episode season.

That's another good point, and the problem with a lot of the Shonen Jump derived crap that Cartoon Network began playing in earnest about five or six years ago. It just meanders aimlessly from one storyline into another and so on; but I guess as long as someone's buying it.

[Majin Gojira]

Which is why I far prefer the abridged edition of DBZ.

While I don't think your referring to this, the few DBZ movies I've seen actually handled the fight sequences rather well, instead of the ridiculous power up/counter power up crap that would last 20 episodes for a single fight. It's one of the reasons I preferred watching YuYu Hakusho when it was on Cartoon Network.

Well, for one I'd be amiss if I didn't mention Dragon Ball Kai, which manages to condense the Sayan and Freeza sagas into 50 episodes, and follows the manga far more than the first animation attempt.

Even though it's the same cells as that series, just recolored and re-edited with modern techniqures.

As for Dragon Ball the Abridged Series, you can find it on Youtube or their official site. It's a condensed gag dub of the original animation.

[Temujin]

I'll have to check those out. Dragonball Z is still a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine.

[Crossroads Inc.]

By the by, as an example of a GOOD Anime that had a well tied up ending and plot, I'd like to recommend "Last Exile".
Spoiler

Within the first couple episodes, virtually all parts of the plot are laid out.

We have a War between two nations, we are told WHY they are at war.
We have a Mysterious girl that everyone seems after.
We have a powerful group called "the guild"

A good portion through the show we learn about "Exile" a mysterious uber ship of Doom,
We learn that "Avis" the girl holds a secret to controlling Exile
We learn that one nation is becoming colder and colder, the other growing hotter, thus causing a war over resources.

As the end of the show looms everything is pulled together.
The two nations, declare peace and join forces against "the Guild"
Avis gets control over "Exile" which turns out to be a Spaceship,
"Exile" fixes the two nations ecosystems restoring them,
And everything seems to end on a positive note.

All four main plot lines are introduced within the first 4 or 5 episodes. tehy are continuously mentioned, built up, expanded, and finally tied together,

THAT is a good example of a good anime that ends well IMHO.

[Majin Gojira]

Thinking about it, even though I love it, the opening few episodes of RahXephon are quite a cluster fuck of "What the hell is going on!" the first time you watch it.

After the 3-Episode opener, we get a brief narrated explanation at the start of the first regular episode. In hindsight, the opening makes perfect sense, but for those three episodes, the mystery surrounding the series sci-fi elements and motifs can be quite confusing.

Of course, the characters and wonderful animation keep it from being a total cluster-fuck, and once it gets its explanation out, it is damn near perfect.

For good, taught storytelling, the first season of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, no matter which order you watch it in (either chronological or broadcast) just plain works.

Season 2 has The Endless 8. Which repeats with minor variation 8 times.

Just what the hell were they thinking when they did that!

[Shinova]

Rahxephon is damn confusing at first but it gives you the plot and detail in little layers one at a time and in the end it all makes sense.


Now I think it was a mistake for networks like Cartoon Network to show stuff like Bleach or Naruto. People will think that's what anime is when there are so much better series out there. It's those things and not stuff like Bleach and Naruto that probably pull us into anime in the first place.

[DPDarkPrimus]

It seems to be the case that, more often than not, the last couple episodes of an anime will end up rushing things and have an ending that feels slapped together at the last minute. I don't know why this is the case since unlike a lot of shows, an anime will have a set number of episodes from the beginning of production.

I know that the last episode of Big O was a deliberate mind fuck, but for a lot of other anime it may simply be due to a combination of lack of planning, imagination and/or poor writing skills. They start off with a good idea, and then before they know it they have to wrap their shit up in three or four episodes, and they don't have the time and /or the skills to do it properly. It could also be due to production staff being given an idea that was partially fleshed out by someone else, and not really knowing what to do with the story beyond the creators original open ended plot.

Actually, it was assumed by the staff that there was going to be a third season of The Big O, and it wasn't until the eleventh hour that it was decided that they would not go through with 13 additional episodes, which meant that the last couple of episodes were crammed full of ideas they couldn't fully realize, etc., etc. just like you said.

As the story goes, the new head of Adult Swim, who was also head writer on Aqua Teen Hunger Force, was mad that the new episodes of The Big O were getting so much better ratings than his stoner non-sequitur show.

[Majin Gojira]

And what anime that isn't like that they relegate to the wee hours of the morning (Moribito really suffered from this, despite being one of the handful of action anime shows that could actually be described as feminist) and haven't gotten any new titles besides Moribito (which they ran only once) and the remake of Fullmetal Alchemist (which is actually rather good).

Not that the titles aren't good, they just need to get something different out there. These days, the only way to watch new anime titles is online (which can now be done legally, thank goodness).

But, then again, I just wonder how shows like Black Lagoon and Baccano!--both of which are built up extremely well, Baccano! especially given its nonlinear nature --given their loving use of words that can't be said on basic cable.

Though Black Lagoon did get a run on Stars apparently.

[Temujin]

And what anime that isn't like that they relegate to the wee hours of the morning

That and the constant changing around of the schedule. I swear for a while there it seemed like they were changing it every couple of weeks, not to mention listing shows and then either not showing them or showing them at a different time then listed.

That's why I just watch stuff I want to see (like the Venture Brothers) online now. Much less aggravation.

[speaker-to-trolls]

No, there have been several statements released about the sadness the change in time slot brought them.

For one, they couldn't show Kallen topless anymore.

For another, they had to reintroduce the show to others, basically meaning that the first 3rd of the season had to be a retread of the first. This meant that things they planned to explain (like why Suzaku is so Hax) had to be cut.

Wait, do you mean there are explanations to be found for R2? Could you direct me to some of them?

It seemed to me like even the basic concepts in R2 weren't really explained, I couldn't even decide whether I agreed Charles's evil plot needed to be thwarted because I couldn't for the life of me work out what he was going to do. Spoiler

I've picked up from somewhere on the internet that his evil plan would involve creating some kind of collective consciousness/hive mind type thing, but I honestly couldn't have deduced that from anything in the show. How are you meant to deduce that from 'destroying the collective unconscious'?

[Majin Gojira]

No, I meant they had to cut the explanations they wanted to give because they were forced to briefly retread season 1.

As for Chuck's plan, well, I was able to follow it. But I also survived marathoning Evangelion.Spoiler

I believe they state that the end result would destroy free will, so I'd label it as "Evil"

[Samuel]

How is that evil?

[speaker-to-trolls]

No, I meant they had to cut the explanations they wanted to give because they were forced to briefly retread season 1.

Ah, damnit. I'd hoped there was some kind of original plan for the series that would have made some sense.

As for Chuck's plan, well, I was able to follow it. But I also survived marathoning Evangelion.Spoiler

I believe they state that the end result would destroy free will, so I'd label it as "Evil"

Yeah I got that too, and that it would make the world 'stagnant' and 'only better for a few (that being those in on the plan) but they never explained why. They never said what this plan was going to do. Spoiler

And you can flat out forget them even hinting at where the hell the immortals or geass actually come from.

How is that evil?

Because the ability to make choices makes a being able to experience far more than it would otherwise and the ability to determine ones own actions gives one a greater chance of achieving happiness than one would otherwise have? Spoiler

Also, as I noted, allegedly this particular plan would only make things good for a few people, and even one of the people in on it seemed to think there would be a lot of collateral damage, his exact words (to the main antagonists heir) are, I think "you are welcome to rule whatever remains of the world".

[Samuel]

Because the ability to make choices makes a being able to experience far more than it would otherwise and the ability to determine ones own actions gives one a greater chance of achieving happiness than one would otherwise have?

You could use that power to eliminate people's desires to achieve anything other than the result you are shaping them toward. It would make people happy in the end, although it generally comes off as villianous.

As for the specific example, it sounds like they are hypocritical backstabbing bastards acting under the guise of an ideology to justify their actions.