Did anyone actually like the ending to nBSG?

[Sarevok]

There should be a sequel where the freed centurions go after the cylon god and his angelic host. And kill them all with superior weapons and tactics. The cylon deities were a species of telepaths not warriors like the centurions. They wont stand a chance in open combat.

[Zac Naloen]

There should be a sequel where the freed centurions go after the cylon god and his angelic host. And kill them all with superior weapons and tactics. The cylon deities were a species of telepaths not warriors like the centurions. They wont stand a chance in open combat.

It's not like they are totally incapable of deactivating all technology within a massive area of space right?

[Sarevok]

The ships lost power in the technobabble nebula. When was it mentioned angels did it ? When you quantify the angels direct power is very weak. All you need to do is find their base of operation and nuke their equipment to cripple them.

[Stofsk]

It was never mentioned that the angels caused that. In fact, there is absolutely no explanation given for why the entire fleet lost its power at that time. There is also no explanation as to why the same thing didn't occur to the Cylon Baseships that jumped in. (meaning it can't be a 'localised phenomenon' or whatever because the Cylons ought to have been affected too)

Nobody ever even mentions this mysterious event ever again. Yeah, season 4 = shit.

[Srelex]

On a slightly unrelated note, I do fondly recall people touting this as the first 'hard' scifi series when it came out and how 'naturalistic' it was...and then we got this angelic bullcrap.

[Stofsk]

On a slightly unrelated note, I do fondly recall people touting this as the first 'hard' scifi series when it came out and how 'naturalistic' it was...and then we got this angelic bullcrap.

Exactly. That's why I'm so upset by the last season and especially the finale. (I can't speak for anyone else)

The fact is RDM specifically set out to make 'naturalistic' sci-fi, as a reaction against the campy space opera style he had direct involvement in with the likes of TNG, DS9 and VOY. Then at the end he turned around and said god a wizard god did it.

[Uraniun235]

No no, RDM has always stated that "god did it". It's the jerkoff fanboys who tried to hoke up some kind of kooky "well maybe it was some super-AI that did it all for mysterious reasons" that kicks it over to "god a wizard did it".

[Stofsk]

No no, RDM has always stated that "god did it". It's the jerkoff fanboys who tried to hoke up some kind of kooky "well maybe it was some super-AI that did it all for mysterious reasons" that kicks it over to "god a wizard did it".

Really? Did he say that in an interview or something early on? I'm only saying that it doesn't seem apparent in the early years that this was the direction he was aiming for.

[Vympel]

nBSG officially flew off the reals as far as naturalistic science fiction went at the end of Season 3 - specifically the moment Starbuck appeared in her Angelic Viper. In most of Season 4 they left this issue alone which provided for a respite, and then of course it came back full force in the last few episodes and resolved absolutely fuck all.

[Anguirus]

Not to defend it (or comment either way, really) but I believe Moore's conception of "naturalistic science fiction" does not preclude fantastic and religious elements, it's just taking a stand against technobabble. The only technologies that the Colonials have that we don't are those that allow them to build robots and fly through space, and there's never an episode where all they do is solve a technological problem (other than "we're running out of tylium.")

It's similar to Firefly in this respect.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That's tue, ther is almost no technobabble

As far as I can tell, there are only three technologies they (the Colonials, the Cylon tech is a little more funky) have that we cant have now:

1. FTL obviously
2. Their sublight engines
3. Artificial gravity

Apart from that, we can do everything they can, although we would have major engineering problems actually trying to build a big ship like galactica ourselves

[Sarevok]

Not to defend it (or comment either way, really) but I believe Moore's conception of "naturalistic science fiction" does not preclude fantastic and religious elements, it's just taking a stand against technobabble. The only technologies that the Colonials have that we don't are those that allow them to build robots and fly through space, and there's never an episode where all they do is solve a technological problem (other than "we're running out of tylium.")

It's similar to Firefly in this respect.

Mysticism is technobabble by another name.

[Sarevok]

That's tue, ther is almost no technobabble

As far as I can tell, there are only three technologies they (the Colonials, the Cylon tech is a little more funky) have that we cant have now:

1. FTL obviously
2. Their sublight engines
3. Artificial gravity

Apart from that, we can do everything they can, although we would have major engineering problems actually trying to build a big ship like galactica ourselves

You are completely wrong. There is.

1) magical tylium power source
2) cylon resurrection technology
3) psi power using angels
4) teleportation technology used by angels.
5) telepathy used by both angels and humans
The list goes on.

[sirocco]

You are completely wrong. There is.

1) magical tylium power source
2) cylon resurrection technology
3) psi power using angels
4) teleportation technology used by angels.
5) telepathy used by both angels and humans
The list goes on.

Well :
1) it's just energy source like uranium or oil. an quite a rare one. It would be technobabble if they started making everything from paper to the hull of the Galactica with Tylium. But even IRL, oil is used for a lot of thing apart from moving your car. A lot.

(Note : that could have been a good explanation as to why they had to abandon technology once they get to Earth 2 : no more tylium in this part of the galaxy. they were simply stuck and had to chose between survival of their race and comfort.)

2) Simple : you create a batch of clones and you download a set of information from one to the other. They just never told us how the cylon were wired to the resurrection hubs and managed to transmit data over lightyears. And why they weren't wired together to make some kind of technological telepathy. And why the colonials never tried to hack into that network and box / corrupt every single model. (Particularly Cavil's model. God I hate Cavil)

3) 4) and 5) When did it happen? For all we know they just are regular people hidden among the colonials and the cylons and regularly hypnotizing them.

[Sarevok]

1) Tylium is as fake as hypermatter or dilithium crystals no matter how you try to handwave it. Your original claim was bsg tech is realistic other than three instances you cited. Dont even think about argueing something like tylium exists in reality.

2) cylon resurrection tech is bullshit. They transmitt massive volumes of data. Where are the transmitters ? Even a fucking transatlantic fiber optic cable would fail to achieve what cylon clones do. Yet they have no transmitters in their bodies. They are indistinguishable from humans to medical science. Not only that but their invisible undetectable transmitters can send information at faster than light speeds at interstellar ranges. How can you built such shit ? Its pretty obvious the cylons are actually moving souls from one body to another not using computer technology. The fact that a cylon clone only downloads when it dies and can never wireless access anything should be a clue.

3)4)5)

I love how you ignore angels teleporting inside a warship, using predator cloaking tech and jedi mind tricks.

As well as psi powers displayed by mutants such as Roslin and starbuck who are as powerful as low level jedi in magic abilities.

[Vympel]

http://leethomson.myzen.co.uk/Battlesta ... _Bible.pdf

The Series Bible. I find it especially ironic that the Bible speculates on why the technology of the Twelve Colonies isn't so far advanced of our own, and that the Twelve Colonies possibly abandoned their advanced technology when arriving, which could be a recurring theme.

Interesting how he obviously abandoned that idea but brought it back at the end for maximum stupid

Anyway, its an interesting read now that we have four seasons of the show (and the Caprica prequel, which I have not yet watched) to compare it to - to see what was changed/ abandoned/ followed.

[sirocco]

1) Tylium is as fake as hypermatter or dilithium crystals no matter how you try to handwave it. Your original claim was bsg tech is realistic other than three instances you cited. Dont even think about argueing something like tylium exists in reality.

I'm not going to argue that it exists since it doesn't. I'm just saying that in-universe Tylium is a rare component/ore/molecule/whatever that exists only in some place in the galaxy and that's all.

2) cylon resurrection tech is bullshit. They transmitt massive volumes of data. Where are the transmitters ? Even a fucking transatlantic fiber optic cable would fail to achieve what cylon clones do. Yet they have no transmitters in their bodies. They are indistinguishable from humans to medical science. Not only that but their invisible undetectable transmitters can send information at faster than light speeds at interstellar ranges. How can you built such shit ? Its pretty obvious the cylons are actually moving souls from one body to another not using computer technology. The fact that a cylon clone only downloads when it dies and can never wireless access anything should be a clue.

From what I remember, there is nearly no difference between a skinjob and a human. The only way to know for sure that there is no transmitter would be take one apart while it is still alive (good luck with that) and analyze every single cell. Currently you can access information on a blog in Jakarta and even post on it with a cellphone. Isn't it possible that people as advanced as the colonials or the cylons have something so much smaller that you can't spot it? Something that could help organic robots infiltrate human facilities without starting every single alarm?

In addition, they have resurrection ships, resurrection hubs, resurrection facilities and cylon homeworld to relay communications. Maybe even some hidden satellites. And seeing the number of clones, they probably reduced the communications to the bare minimum. They value resurrection over making a galaxy wide network probably because 1) they have no chance of ever losing an operative and 2) if he has a valuable information he could always deliver it in person.

Oh FTL communication is probably the first step to FTL transport. So OK.

3)4)5)

I love how you ignore angels teleporting inside a warship, using predator cloaking tech and jedi mind tricks.

As well as psi powers displayed by mutants such as Roslin and starbuck who are as powerful as low level jedi in magic abilities.

I don't recall the angels ever doing something like that. To me they are illusions or holographic projections that can only be seen by specific people. I don't call that teleporting or cloaking or whatever. If you can tell me when it happened I'll agree with you.

And Roslin and Starbuck suffers also from hallucinations (visual and auditive). And it is somewhat similar to what the final five experienced at the end of the 1st part of season 4 when they start hearing / remembering the tune. And since Kara's mother always said to her that she had a destiny, I'd rather believe that she's been hypnotized too when still a child and that under certain conditions her memories are coming back and she look at them as being signs of the gods or whatever.

In-universe, the cycle and the angels and the signs are nothing more than a gigantic hoax that's been going on for millennias. And they all fell for that (particularly Baltar and Roslin).

[Uraniun235]

No no, RDM has always stated that "god did it". It's the jerkoff fanboys who tried to hoke up some kind of kooky "well maybe it was some super-AI that did it all for mysterious reasons" that kicks it over to "god a wizard did it".

Really? Did he say that in an interview or something early on? I'm only saying that it doesn't seem apparent in the early years that this was the direction he was aiming for.

Bad word choice on my part; what I meant was that the strike-through wasn't called for there, because he never implied there was a wizard (as opposed to 'god') behind the scenes. Although there are people who argued that he really was saying 'god did it' from the beginning, as they petulantly insisted that Head-Six was always an angel of god and always right about that... even though the writers still hadn't really decided about that halfway through the show.

[Gramzamber]

It's not so much that "god did it" is an explanation for some weird unrealistic events, it's that "god did it" is supposed to be the explanation for EVERYTHING.
So a show without THAT much sci-fi campiness which is primarily character driven becomes nothing but a stage set by some omnipotent being. The characters didn't survive a harsh journey, they were led there by the nose!

And like it or not, BSG was far more grounded than other sci-fi shows for a time. Sure it had it's mystical bits, but they didn't dominate the theme of the show. Harping on about Tylium and FTL is futile, they fit within the show's theme. They worked within the show's universe.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Thats what I meant when I said there wasnt much they had that was beyond us. They had advanced technology sure but it wasnt there for the sake of it, it was a necessary part of the ship for it to be plausible (and fimable, an entire character-driven TV seris in zero-g would be fun to shoot)

Admittedly I missed Tylium off my list, but oh well. I also said Colonials, not cylons, as I know their stuff is a bit more funky

[aieeegrunt]

nBSG officially flew off the reals as far as naturalistic science fiction went at the end of Season 3 - specifically the moment Starbuck appeared in her Angelic Viper. In most of Season 4 they left this issue alone which provided for a respite, and then of course it came back full force in the last few episodes and resolved absolutely fuck all.

I feel your pain. I thought her death was both an excellent episode and really the natural end of her character arc. I also thought it was a ballsy move because how often is a central main character offed in a way that flows perfectly with the arc of the show?

Then we get a big fat cowardly reset button, more mystical bullshit and a huge dangling thread. The only good thing about her coming back was the sequence with her dad and the piano, and they sort of made the character less of an asshole by showing she actually loved Sam in her kind of fucked up way.

[Anguirus]

nBSG officially flew off the reals as far as naturalistic science fiction went at the end of Season 3 - specifically the moment Starbuck appeared in her Angelic Viper. In most of Season 4 they left this issue alone which provided for a respite, and then of course it came back full force in the last few episodes and resolved absolutely fuck all.

I feel your pain. I thought her death was both an excellent episode and really the natural end of her character arc. I also thought it was a ballsy move because how often is a central main character offed in a way that flows perfectly with the arc of the show?

Then we get a big fat cowardly reset button, more mystical bullshit and a huge dangling thread. The only good thing about her coming back was the sequence with her dad and the piano, and they sort of made the character less of an asshole by showing she actually loved Sam in her kind of fucked up way.

I'm curious about this. I'm usually very anti-resurrection, but Starbuck's death episode left a lot more questions than answers. From the perspective of the other characters, she just went nuts and offed herself for no reason. What does the show gain by leaving Starbuck dead after Maelstrom?

[Sarevok]

For starters the show does not jump the shark by destroying last remaining pretense of being "naturalistic science fiction".

[Havok]

For starters the show does not jump the shark by destroying last remaining pretense of being "naturalistic science fiction".

You are fucking ridiculous. The VERY FIRST EPISODE has the entire fleet taking a LEAP OF FAITH and trying to find a MYTHOLOGICAL planet from their BIBLE, but a resurrection three seasons later jumps the shark? What?

P.S. You should check out the definition of Moore's 'naturalistic sci fi', it will put character development over nerd rage inducing 'hard sci fi' when necessary, so Starbuck's arch is exactly RDM's 'naturalistic sci fi'

[Sarevok]

For starters the show does not jump the shark by destroying last remaining pretense of being "naturalistic science fiction".

You are fucking ridiculous. The VERY FIRST EPISODE has the entire fleet taking a LEAP OF FAITH and trying to find a MYTHOLOGICAL planet from their BIBLE, but a resurrection three seasons later jumps the shark? What?

P.S. You should check out the definition of Moore's 'naturalistic sci fi', it will put character development over nerd rage inducing 'hard sci fi' when necessary, so Starbuck's arch is exactly RDM's 'naturalistic sci fi'

So the fact RDMs proclamations about BSG were all a dream ?
Keep living in fantasy land you weirdo.