Four Tie Defenders vs Six Enterprise E's

[Admiral Johnason]

I seem to recall that in TNG, the Enterprise could shoot down Perigrins, but that may not count as fighter kills.

[Alyeska]

I seem to recall that in TNG, the Enterprise could shoot down Perigrins, but that may not count as fighter kills.

The E-D used proximity detonated torpedoes at long range to drive off Maquis fighters that were swarming a Cardassian ship.

[Alyeska]

The Death Star destroying torpedoes were affective in being programmed to destroy the core.

The Slave 1 concussion missile followed the Jedi Starfighter through an asteroid belt easily dozens to a hundred kilometers. With less manuvering, and a missile dedicated to anti-capital ship work, the range would likely be at least as good.

The targeting display of the missile computer on the Yavin run X-Wings suggests possibly 1000s of km ranges.

Fighter laser cannons reach into the kiloton-range.

Same as the Soveriegn's torpedoes.

The torpedoes used against the DS were specially programed beforehand IIRC. Missiles and torpedoes will alter course as they manuever to hit the target, however they will retain a relatively stationary target for the ship in question to fire on.

[Master of Ossus]

SW proton torpedoes don't manuever towards their target, they just fly straight in.

What about the turn that Luke's torpedoes pulled when entering the DS reactor shaft? What about the maneuvering that the missile in AotC did while pursuing Obi-Wan's fighter through the asteroid field in Geonosis? In Destiny's Way, we have an incident described in which a pilot can actually guide a missile while it is flying, and have it maneuver along its path. They do not just fly in straight lines--in fact, they macroscopically maneuver fairly easily, even at long ranges.

[Alyeska]

SW proton torpedoes don't manuever towards their target, they just fly straight in.

What about the turn that Luke's torpedoes pulled when entering the DS reactor shaft? What about the maneuvering that the missile in AotC did while pursuing Obi-Wan's fighter through the asteroid field in Geonosis? In Destiny's Way, we have an incident described in which a pilot can actually guide a missile while it is flying, and have it maneuver along its path. They do not just fly in straight lines--in fact, they macroscopically maneuver fairly easily, even at long ranges.

I should have clarified what I was saying. Typically SW guided weapons only manuever so much as to remain on target. They don't jink to avoid being hit by incoming fire.

What was the circumstances and situation in Destiny's Way? That sounds like a unusual event. We know that the Jedi use their powers to move bombs against the Vong and that the other non jedi pilots don't direct their own weapons to avoid dovin bassils.

[Master of Ossus]

I should have clarified what I was saying. Typically SW guided weapons only manuever so much as to remain on target. They don't jink to avoid being hit by incoming fire.

The one in AotC maneuvered considerably to avoid asteroids while it was pursuing Obi-Wans fighter, including taking routes around asteroids (and sometimes, in the case of perforated asteroids, through them) during the pursuit. That sounds like a missile attempting to avoid enemy weapons fire.

What was the circumstances and situation in Destiny's Way? That sounds like a unusual event. We know that the Jedi use their powers to move bombs against the Vong and that the other non jedi pilots don't direct their own weapons to avoid dovin bassils.

Basically, Jaina was trying to draw YV away from her position and towards another area where she had set a trap, and piloted a proton torpedo. The YV mistook the torpedo for her starship, and she flew it into an area where their ships would be easily destroyed.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I hardly see why the accuracy of a torpedo is relevent. It's not like your going to bemissinga 600+ meter ship, even with dumb fired ones.

[Alyeska]

I hardly see why the accuracy of a torpedo is relevent. It's not like your going to bemissinga 600+ meter ship, even with dumb fired ones.

Unless of cource the 600 meter ship moves.

And we are not talking about accuracy. We are talking about how SW guided weapons work, hence how good a chance ST ships have at shooting them down.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Unless of cource the 600 meter ship moves.

And we are not talking about accuracy. We are talking about how SW guided weapons work, hence how good a chance ST ships have at shooting them down.

Can a Sovereign move at .9c? I think the TIE/ds won't have trouble hitting it, they can keep up pretty well.

And my mistake, I misinterprted what ya'll were talking about. Of course, if an ST could shoot down topedoes, wouldn't you think they'd be knocking out photorps all the time? I'd chance to guess they don't move considerably faster than a protorp, but they are larger.

[Alyeska]

Unless of cource the 600 meter ship moves.

And we are not talking about accuracy. We are talking about how SW guided weapons work, hence how good a chance ST ships have at shooting them down.

Can a Sovereign move at .9c? I think the TIE/ds won't have trouble hitting it, they can keep up pretty well.

And my mistake, I misinterprted what ya'll were talking about. Of course, if an ST could shoot down topedoes, wouldn't you think they'd be knocking out photorps all the time? I'd chance to guess they don't move considerably faster than a protorp, but they are larger.

Last time Voyager shot down a torpedo it created an even larger shockwave (I don't have a fucking clue why)

And as to manuevering. You do know that actual dogfighting at .9c is impossible don't you? Human reaction times prevent it. Sure the fighters might have good acceleration and manueverability, but at those speeds you couldn't hit shit. Dogfighting speeds are much slower. If the Enterprise is manuevering, its going to make life tough on the Defenders. Hell, a stationary Enterprise will be tough for something moving at .9c to hit. Not enough time to stay on target.

[Sea Skimmer]

SW proton torpedoes don't manuever towards their target, they just fly straight in.

What about the turn that Luke's torpedoes pulled when entering the DS reactor shaft? What about the maneuvering that the missile in AotC did while pursuing Obi-Wan's fighter through the asteroid field in Geonosis? In Destiny's Way, we have an incident described in which a pilot can actually guide a missile while it is flying, and have it maneuver along its path. They do not just fly in straight lines--in fact, they macroscopically maneuver fairly easily, even at long ranges.

I should have clarified what I was saying. Typically SW guided weapons only manuever so much as to remain on target. They don't jink to avoid being hit by incoming fire.

In the NJO we have many examples of torpedoes not only flying evasive paths, mostly corkscrews, and also deploying decoys. I belive there where also evaise torpedos in the Black Fleet Crisis but I'd need to check.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Last time Voyager shot down a torpedo it created an even larger shockwave (I don't have a fucking clue why)

And as to manuevering. You do know that actual dogfighting at .9c is impossible don't you? Human reaction times prevent it. Sure the fighters might have good acceleration and manueverability, but at those speeds you couldn't hit shit. Dogfighting speeds are much slower. If the Enterprise is manuevering, its going to make life tough on the Defenders. Hell, a stationary Enterprise will be tough for something moving at .9c to hit. Not enough time to stay on target.

Larger shockwave than what? Anyways, like I said, it's not like they're gunning down torps left and right, they've let some go plenty of times. And SW torps are alot smaller too. If they move at the same speed as ST torps (I really don't know how fast either of them move) there's a good chance it'll get through, regardless of dodging capabilities.

I mentioned in an earlier post that they would indeed have to slow down to lauch torps (and of course do amuch of anything in general). What I was trying to say about moving at .9c is that that the E-E isn't going to get away, and that the TIE could keep pace with it perfectly if need be. A moving target would provide little difficulty, especially when you factor in that it'll be moving in a straight line, or manuvering slowly enough that it will still be a sitting duck.

[Alyeska]

Actually the E-E might indeed be able to get away. We have seen the Enterprise D at full impulse achieve low level FTL before.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Actually the E-E might indeed be able to get away. We have seen the Enterprise D at full impulse achieve low level FTL before.

What episode was that?!

Anywho, TIE Defenders have hyperdrives, should they accelerate to FTL, via impulse or warp...

[Darth Wong]

Actually the E-E might indeed be able to get away. We have seen the Enterprise D at full impulse achieve low level FTL before.

In a combat situation, or in a straight-line navigation from point A to point B over an extended period of offscreen time? Of course, we already know the answer; I'm just pointing out that you're pulling the bait-and-switch. Again.

[Alyeska]

Actually the E-E might indeed be able to get away. We have seen the Enterprise D at full impulse achieve low level FTL before.

In a combat situation, or in a straight-line navigation from point A to point B over an extended period of offscreen time? Of course, we already know the answer; I'm just pointing out that you're pulling the bait-and-switch. Again.

The Enterprise-D exited warp near Saturn and was stated to be able to reach Mars in 21 minutes. That requires an averge trip of greater then FTL speeds. This ignores how quickly they would have had to be able to accelerate to reach that point. Indeed that wasn't combat, but thats damned impressive acceleration for a 642 meter long ship to make even as a straight line.

And enough with the personal taunts. Darth Garden Gnome didn't think that the Sovereigns were capable of fast acceleration and I pointed out an example that indicates otherwise.

[Alyeska]

Actually the E-E might indeed be able to get away. We have seen the Enterprise D at full impulse achieve low level FTL before.

What episode was that?!

Anywho, TIE Defenders have hyperdrives, should they accelerate to FTL, via impulse or warp...

Best of Both Worlds PT-2

Hyperdrives aren't really very good for short jumps. All the EU material points to this. It was unusual in the extreme to be on the very edge of a system and jump into the system as of the Thrawn Trilogy. Somehow I don't see Tie-D pilots making such jumps.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Hyperdrives aren't really very good for short jumps. All the EU material points to this. It was unusual in the extreme to be on the very edge of a system and jump into the system as of the Thrawn Trilogy. Somehow I don't see Tie-D pilots making such jumps.

Jumping into a system is one thing, gravity'll mess with hyperdrive there. But not being good for short jumps? I don't see any reason why distance should matter.

The Enterprise-D exited warp near Saturn and was stated to be able to reach Mars in 21 minutes. That requires an averge trip of greater then FTL speeds. This ignores how quickly they would have had to be able to accelerate to reach that point. Indeed that wasn't combat, but thats damned impressive acceleration for a 642 meter long ship to make even as a straight line.

Well, as impressive as that may be, it won't necesarily take 21 minutes (or even considerably less than that) for a TIE to deliver the torps, to the contrary it would take a couple seconds.

If we assume the TIEs came out of hyperspace near them, even if the E-Es were accelerating to FTL speed, they'd be enough time to deploy the bombs.

And FYI, a TIE/d has atleast2 torps a ship, rounding out at 8 torps for 6 ships.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Let's face it the tech level is dispairaging enough, that snubfighters vs. Capships is relevant. It's that bad....

At the rate of ST Shrinkage, & the power of SW missiles increases the MF should be able to take out more then one Borg cube by now.

[Keevan_Colton]

Unless of cource the 600 meter ship moves.

And we are not talking about accuracy. We are talking about how SW guided weapons work, hence how good a chance ST ships have at shooting them down.

Can a Sovereign move at .9c? I think the TIE/ds won't have trouble hitting it, they can keep up pretty well.

And my mistake, I misinterprted what ya'll were talking about. Of course, if an ST could shoot down topedoes, wouldn't you think they'd be knocking out photorps all the time? I'd chance to guess they don't move considerably faster than a protorp, but they are larger.

Last time Voyager shot down a torpedo it created an even larger shockwave (I don't have a fucking clue why)

And as to manuevering. You do know that actual dogfighting at .9c is impossible don't you? Human reaction times prevent it. Sure the fighters might have good acceleration and manueverability, but at those speeds you couldn't hit shit. Dogfighting speeds are much slower. If the Enterprise is manuevering, its going to make life tough on the Defenders. Hell, a stationary Enterprise will be tough for something moving at .9c to hit. Not enough time to stay on target.

Dont forget its only relative velocity that actually counts for anything....something often thrown aside in ST.....along with the idea that you keep going even if you stop "pushing"......

[Illuminatus Primus]

And as to manuevering. You do know that actual dogfighting at .9c is impossible don't you? Human reaction times prevent it. Sure the fighters might have good acceleration and manueverability, but at those speeds you couldn't hit shit. Dogfighting speeds are much slower. If the Enterprise is manuevering, its going to make life tough on the Defenders. Hell, a stationary Enterprise will be tough for something moving at .9c to hit. Not enough time to stay on target.

You don't get it do you.

If they use their acceleration so that the torpedoes gain the speed of the ship, then the Enterprise will not be able to shoot down .9 C + missiles. Especially when slower missiles move to avoid threats, and phasers are certainly STL.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Actually the E-E might indeed be able to get away. We have seen the Enterprise D at full impulse achieve low level FTL before.

In a combat situation, or in a straight-line navigation from point A to point B over an extended period of offscreen time? Of course, we already know the answer; I'm just pointing out that you're pulling the bait-and-switch. Again.

Well Alyeska went from "Sovs can shoot at the Defenders and hit them" to "Sovs will shoot down the torpedoes" to "the Sov can run away."

[Alyeska]

Actually the E-E might indeed be able to get away. We have seen the Enterprise D at full impulse achieve low level FTL before.

In a combat situation, or in a straight-line navigation from point A to point B over an extended period of offscreen time? Of course, we already know the answer; I'm just pointing out that you're pulling the bait-and-switch. Again.

Well Alyeska went from "Sovs can shoot at the Defenders and hit them" to "Sovs will shoot down the torpedoes" to "the Sov can run away."

I dare you to find me making either claim. I am throwing out ideas and comparing them to information on the Defenders.

[darthdavid]

Full impulse for fed ships in non emergancy situations is .25c. Any faster and the time dialation becomes a combat disadvantage and manuvering the ship becoms hard. At .9c a tie/d would appear to be moving sloooowly. The soverigns would have less of a challange hitting it at that speed than at say, .50c.

[Darth Wong]

Full impulse for fed ships in non emergancy situations is .25c. Any faster and the time dialation becomes a combat disadvantage and manuvering the ship becoms hard. At .9c a tie/d would appear to be moving sloooowly. The soverigns would have less of a challange hitting it at that speed than at say, .50c.

*listens for the sound of Einstein rolling over in his grave at the sound of Trekkies butchering his theories*