The MMA thread (mk1)

[weemadando]

Fedor is not a pound for pound top 5 guy - my blog. Because I'm sick of arguing with Fedor apologists who insist that because he beat Cro-Cop in 2005, he's the no.1.

[TheFeniX]

Fedor is not a pound for pound top 5 guy - my blog. Because I'm sick of arguing with Fedor apologists who insist that because he beat Cro-Cop in 2005, he's the no.1.

You ever argue with a guy who honestly believed that if Fedor lost a fight, the "magic" would be gone from MMA and the sport would fail? Pride nuthuggers annoy the Hell out of me. Fedor is damn good, but his skill-set allows him to dominate a weight class where some of his scariest opponents are noted to have huge holes in their game. Arlovski was talked up as credible even though his proponents remarked on his weak ground-game, that he wasn't much of a wrestler, he was overly-aggressive, and had a glass chin. Yea, that's the perfect guy to put up against a power-puncher with somewhere around a 70% accuracy in head strikes, who also has excellent ju-jitsu and decent wrestling.

Let's be honest here: the setup was good, but the current HW champ of the UFC got his title by finishing an MMA legend with masturbation punches. That said, there is a big push to build a well-rounded HW division with true HWs, but that's not what Strikeforce is interested in. At least not from what I've seen. They're building a division around a man.

But that doesn't matter to pride nuthuggers. You see, even if the UFC has guys like Mir, Carwin, and (arguably now) Nog, because Strikeforce whored themselves to M-1, they have the best HW division just because Fedor is there. And these are the same guys who blasted Strikforce non-stop for Kevin Ferguson being their poster-boy. Now, Strikeforce is like the second-coming of Christ. And to hear them talk shit about "The average UFC/TUF fan" is fucking hilarious when it's all put into perspective.

EDIT: I should clarify why I'm ranting about Pride. Every time I see someone heralding Fedor as God and the UFC as being shit because God didn't sign with them, I always pick up a bit of this "MMA was better when Pride was on top" bullshit. Sometimes you have to argue with them a bit, but it always comes out. Pride wasn't just a promotion they watched. It was their promotion and the UFC fucked it all up and things were so much better back in the day. So, feel free to swap "Pride" with "Fedor" if you think I'm being unfair.

[weemadando]

Just look at the record of many of the Pride fighters who have come across to the UFC. Most recently Gomi, who had he been matched up with the Kenny Florian of 2005 when he was a TUF runner up would have devastated him. But Gomi today is the same Gomi as he was back in 2005 when he was thrashing Kawajiri. Kenny has evolved so much - as have most of the fighters in the US. The sport has come a long way since Pride, unfortunately many of the Japan based guys haven't.

[aerius]

By the time they came over to the UFC, the best days of Pride's top fighters were already behind them, Wandy, Nog, and CroCop were already on the downslope of their careers. These guys have been around for a hell of a long time, they're not that old but they've got lots of fights and years on them, add in the Pride rules with the stomps & soccer kicks plus the GP tournaments and that's a hell of a lot of wear & tear on the body.

With regards to evolving, Matt Hughes would've tooled Koscheck back when TUF1 wrapped up filming, if they fought now there's not much doubt that Hughes would get knocked out or beaten senseless. It's the same thing everywhere, new fighters keep getting better and the old guard has a tough time keeping up. Look at where all the UFC's champions from when Pride was in its heyday are now. Chuck's semi-retired and won't be getting anywhere near the title, Rich Franklin's out of the title picture, Couture can barely hang with Vera, Matt Hughes is a glorified gatekeeper, Tim Sylvia & Arlovski aren't exactly doing well these days. It's not that different. For every Pride superstar who's sucked it up in recent years, I can name a UFC superstar from the same era who's stunk it up just as bad.

[weemadando]

My point wasn't about physical capacity, it was about styles. The guys who have come over and have had success are hte ones that have evolved (ie Shogun, look at how much he's changed). The ones like Gomi who have the exact same style and gameplan as they did in 2005 are the ones that are failing.

[Edward Yee]

Even Wanderlei had to change to beat Bisping... then again, the need to was pretty dire. While the FACIAL change was (hopefully) unnecessary, there's no way that the sight of him catching a kick, head bobbing out of the way of two straight punches (in fairness, a nice reaction on Bisping's part), and sweeping Bisping off his feet was not awesome.

Anyone hear about BJJ being a mandated public school class in the UAE, or at least Abu Dhabi?

EDIT: Oh, and regarding Sonnen: Have some lateral drop.

[aerius]

Let's just hope the fight is better than the last time when Silva fought a Brazilian grappler. On the other hand I hope it isn't, just because I want to see millions of keyboard warriors suffering a stroke and going spastic on various MMA forums.

Holy shit I'm a prophet. I think I spotted capoeira, drunken kungfu, monkey style, and a Lyoto Machida impression from Anderson Silva. And it sucked worse than the Thales Leites fight. On the bright side the MMA forums are going spastic.

[Edward Yee]

Holy shit I'm a prophet. I think I spotted capoeira, drunken kungfu, monkey style, and a Lyoto Machida impression from Anderson Silva. And it sucked worse than the Thales Leites fight. On the bright side the MMA forums are going spastic.

The sad part is, it sounds like it wasn't Maia's fault... well, so much. I mean, probability-wise Maia was fucked anyway, Dan Hardy style... I just can't fathom why Silva didn't finish him, if the skill gap was going to be as wide as that with Forrest Griffin, and Maia came to (try to) fight too, because I doubt that "Brazilian" was enough for that... right? We need GIFs of Maia throwing from his knees though, Hong Man Choi-style.

Considering the reported dirty look at Ed Soares, I hope this doesn't affect the rest of "Ed House," particularly Junior dos Santos.

EDIT: WAR Frankie Edgar! I admit I completely discounted him, so I won't hop on the bandwagon, but I can't hate on the man.

[weemadando]

OK - I'm loving all the Anderson Silva hate. It's cracking me up.

The first two rounds of the fight made me look this back up on youtube:


He flat out embarrassed Maia for a few rounds, until it appears he gassed or just got sick of it. Then he shut down and I was surprised to see him whiffing punches and having Maia land on him a lot. That said, was he ever in trouble? Nope. Did Maia have a chance? Not really it would seem. Should he have not clowned about and just put Maia away in the first or second when it was clear that there was no challenge? Yes. But does that make him a bad person? No. No worse a person than GSP is for playing with such a conservative gameplan of his own.

I was intrigued that Dana just handed Ed Soares the belt outside the cage and told him to put it on because he doesn't want to be anywhere near Anderson. So what does he do with Anderson now? Will he make him fight the winner of Shogun/Machida? Or will he throw a now apoplecticly angry Chael Sonnen into the mix?

And I totally agree: WAR Frankie. I will freely admit to being an Edgar nuthugger since the Griffin fight but had picked against him because I figured that BJ would have actually capitalised on his range, power and grappling advantages.

edit: Other hilarity

The judge who scored it 50-45 for Frankie has been on an internet trolling spree. I want you to just imagine the shit that is raining down on him from commissions and the UFC right now.

Jon Jones says he wants Anderson Silva - that's an interesting fight, but I think that Silva would just handle him right now. Still, if he wants it bad enough I thoroughly support it if only to see Chael Sonnen's face go redder and more flecks of spittle appear when he talks.

Frankie Edgar has awesome friends

[aerius]

He flat out embarrassed Maia for a few rounds, until it appears he gassed or just got sick of it. Then he shut down and I was surprised to see him whiffing punches and having Maia land on him a lot. That said, was he ever in trouble? Nope. Did Maia have a chance? Not really it would seem. Should he have not clowned about and just put Maia away in the first or second when it was clear that there was no challenge? Yes. But does that make him a bad person? No. No worse a person than GSP is for playing with such a conservative gameplan of his own.

If GSP decided to take down Hardy, slap him in the face a few times while calling him his bitch and then let him back up so he could do it all over again, then I'd agree that it was as bad as what Silva did. And if GSP did that I'd break out every single Quebecer joke that I know and let him have it. What Silva did goes far beyond having a shitty gameplan, it was unsportsmanlike conduct.

So what does he do with Anderson now? Will he make him fight the winner of Shogun/Machida? Or will he throw a now apoplecticly angry Chael Sonnen into the mix?

BROCK SMASH!!

And I totally agree: WAR Frankie. I will freely admit to being an Edgar nuthugger since the Griffin fight but had picked against him because I figured that BJ would have actually capitalised on his range, power and grappling advantages.

Well, BJ allegedly had a sinus infection according to his trainer. Seems like he has an excuse for every one of his recent losses, he popped a bunch of ribs against Matt Hughes, GSP was greasing, and now it's a sinus infection. At least he hasn't claimed a cracked skull like Tito.

[weemadando]

Just a question is anyone else picking upsets for the Strikeforce event?

I believe that Shields can defeat Hendo and that we might see Mo Lawal KO Mousasi.

Am I just plain mad?

[Edward Yee]

Nah, King Mo is smarter than he portrays himself for the public as, for example, pointing out what he claims are weaknesses in Mousasi's ground game (i.e. poor hip movement when on his back) and discounting the triangle choke on Denis Kang.

Also, behold... the 3rd place trophy for a 2010 US Army National Guard Combative contest/tournament. If you want a personalized one...

[weemadando]

Carlson Gracie Team Australia is being rep'd by Renee over at the Abu Dhabis. She's a blue belt who schools me any time I've rolled with her - but note where I said blue belt. She secured a spot to the ADCC invitational by taking out the Oceania qualifiers.

This is a post from her on facebook as she just discovered her opponents:

Hey guys, I'm fighting tomorrow. Brackets are up. 1st match is against 2009 mundial black belt heavy & absolute champion Lana Stefanac, then if I beat her I get the 260lb Gabriele Garcia (she's one huge bitch). Only have to beat those 2 to get into the final. wish me luck!

If she takes down those two then my god, I can see a purple belt in her future.

[aerius]

Just a question is anyone else picking upsets for the Strikeforce event?

I believe that Shields can defeat Hendo and that we might see Mo Lawal KO Mousasi.

Am I just plain mad?

I've given up picking fights. If someone told me a couple weeks ago that BJ would lose his belt in the next couple years I would've laughed at him and bought a ton of whatver dope he was smoking, cause it's clearly quality stuff. Then Edgar wins the title from BJ.

I'd say King Mo has a better chance of winning than Shields, not that either one of them has much of a chance but who the hell knows these days?

[aerius]

Yeah, like I was saying, this is why I don't bet on MMA. What the fucking fuck. Like seriously, what the fuck's going on? This is the fucking year of upsets all over again. Noguiera, BJ Penn, Mousasi, Hendo, and it's only April, this is getting ridiculous, I might as well bet against Fedor if this keeps up. And maybe Forrest will sub Rogerio while we're at it.

Also, Jake shields has the most pathetic ground & pound I've ever seen, he spent most of rounds 2-5 mounted on Hendo and couldn't even put a mark on his face, and never put him in any serious danger with sub attempts. Mousasi looked like he'd OD'd on valium and slept through the entire fight and Aoki got his ass beat for 5 rounds. Overall, this card sucked. Strikeforce needs a Nick Diaz rule, Diaz fights on every card so we're guaranteed to see at least one quality fight.

edit: Fuck! Apparently I missed the best part of the event since I turned off the TV in disgust as soon as the Shields fight was over. I'm told there was a massive brawl after Mayhem Miller interrupted Shields' victory interview, Mayhem got jumped and beat on by the entire Shields camp including the Diaz brothers and it ended with Big John doing a takedown on Nick Diaz and sitting on him. Fucking fuck, I can't believe I missed this shit, I gotta go find a video of the whole thing.

edit #2: Man, what would I do without Youtube? Modern technology is awesome.

[weemadando]

I don't think Mayhem was expecting that kind of reaction. He just looked like he was wanting to have some fun.

Turns out that the Diaz bros. have anger management issues. WHO KNEW!
[edit - speculation is that Zuffa is going to leverage this by cutting Nate Diaz (to make an example of him) and pushing for commissions to suspend all those involved for a lengthy period. This then leads them nicely into being able to go to CBS and say: "Look how professional we are compared to these guys, don't risk it with these bush-leaguers".]

But, what comes out of this? I have no idea, but having a post fight brawl on a CBS card will either make or break MMA on mainstream TV... And given the coverage of it thus far, I'm leaning towards break.

http://cdn.cagepotato.com/www/sites/def ... ayhem1.jpg

[aerius]

I don't think Mayhem was expecting that kind of reaction. He just looked like he was wanting to have some fun.

No kidding, Mayhem's just in there to hype some shit up, you'd think it would just end up like the time Rashad stepped in to run his mouth on Rampage after the Jardine fight. Yeah it's a bit of a dick thing to do after Shields just won the biggest fight in his career, but you don't fucking mug the guy.

Turns out that the Diaz bros. have anger management issues. WHO KNEW!

It's not just the Diaz brothers, it was the entire fucking Cesar Gracie camp, Melendez got into it as well. Maybe their pot shipment didn't come in or something and they were all stressed out. Fucking bunch of douchebags, they should all be suspended for a few years and have the shit fined out of them.

[Edward Yee]

No kidding, Mayhem's just in there to hype some shit up, you'd think it would just end up like the time Rashad stepped in to run his mouth on Rampage after the Jardine fight. Yeah it's a bit of a dick thing to do after Shields just won the biggest fight in his career, but you don't fucking mug the guy.

If Jim "Bah Gawd" Ross (legendary former WWE play-by-play commentator) is to be believed, "Brock Lesnar was professionally brought into the Octagon after Shane Carwin destroyed Frank Mir to set up the July 3 Lesnar-Carwin fight," so I wouldn't be surprised if the Rashad-Rampage and GSP-Hughes post-fight "run ins" were essentially staged, or at least supervised, whereas in pro wrestling terms Mayhem went into business for himself.

It's not just the Diaz brothers, it was the entire fucking Cesar Gracie camp, Melendez got into it as well.

Therein lies the issue. You don't see all of ATT (Manhoef and Lashley included) in the Octagon after, say, Thiago Silva or Jardine wins, or everyone from AKA after Swick/Koscheck/Fitch or Velasquez wins, any of Black House when one of their fighters win, except Ed Soares as manager/translator and a cornerman or two. It doesn't help Nate Diaz's chances in the UFC that after his last win he also talked up both the Cesar Gracie school and his brother, by then Strikeforce welterweight champ.

EDIT: Melendez apologized on Twitter and claims that he thinks Mayhem is cool, that he was just trying to keep the spotlight for Shields. I don't recall him joining in on the beatdown, though he did help cause it. As for War Machine's reaction...

Why do people think athletes have to be ROLE MODELS? WHy can't they just be good athletes and get paid to do a job they love? Leave us ALONE

The Diaz brothers' Facebook response as of right now:

For those that people think this shit's a game. Mayhem Millet trying to steal Jake's spotlight? Walk up on our camp like that? The clown got beat down.

[weemadando]

Hilariously it seems that a bunch of people want to blame Mayhem for all of this (unsurprisingly, they also seem to all be Diaz Bros nuthuggers).

Mayhem to blame? Yeah right.

Because this stupid fucking gangsta obsession with "disrespectin' me!" is totally a legitimate excuse to beat up on a guy who was specifically placed in the cage by the production team in order to talk yang and promote a marketable re-match.

What's that you say? Mayhem must have just forced his way in? Sure. Right past the commission officials, the Strikeforce management guys and the CBS production team. Then again, seeing as the whole of California Ghetto Team Cesar Gracie Team was in there, then I guess Mayhem busting in is completely viable.

Still, that's no reason why we shouldn't see looooong suspensions for all involved, if not criminal charges.

And for anyone that hoped it would all blow over/get swept under the mat. It's not. Entertainment Weekly, USA Today, and many other mainstream media outlets are onto it. It seems Scott Coker either gets to fire several of his champions and some of his most marketable fighters or probably lose the CBS deal. After all, this is the network that lost it's shit over seeing some covered up boob at a football game.

And to quote Dana White's twitter at the time:



That is possibly the best response you'll get out of Dana on any subject.

[aerius]

Therein lies the issue. You don't see all of ATT (Manhoef and Lashley included) in the Octagon after, say, Thiago Silva or Jardine wins, or everyone from AKA after Swick/Koscheck/Fitch or Velasquez wins, any of Black House when one of their fighters win, except Ed Soares as manager/translator and a cornerman or two.

For Black House there's usually at least 3 guys in there after one of their guys wins. Both Nogueira brothers are in there and Anderson shows up too from time to time. The other teams I haven't paid attention to, though I do remember GSP & Loiseau showing up after each others' fights back in the day.

[Edward Yee]

Because this stupid fucking gangsta obsession with "disrespectin' me!" is totally a legitimate excuse to beat up on a guy who was specifically placed in the cage by the production team in order to talk yang and promote a marketable re-match.

Believe it or not, that was the position of the official Cesar Grace Web site until just now (scroll to "Bully Beatdown"), though the GracieMag Web site kinda concurred, as apparently does Rolles Gracie himself.

What's that you say? Mayhem must have just forced his way in? Sure. Right past the commission officials, the Strikeforce management guys and the CBS production team. Then again, seeing as the whole of California Ghetto Team Cesar Gracie Team was in there, then I guess Mayhem busting in is completely viable.

As Bloody Elbow's Brent Brookhouse pointed out, it's actually worse if it was staged, because the publicity was wasted trying to push a rematch that nobody wants to see... and so many Cesar Gracie fighters being in there at once just fits in that plausibly with the image of Strikeforce as bush-league, to say nothing of Scott Coker being nowhere near ringside at the time.

Thanks aerius for the clearing-up; I also recall that with Machida it's almost always his brothers (as cornermen) plus Soares, plus his dad when he won the belt.

[Zadius]

Lol. Thanks to DVR I can go back and watch Rolles Gracie embarrass himself and laugh my ass off all over again.

[Edward Yee]

Apparently Dana White won't be punishing Nate Diaz, whatever else was said.

[Edward Yee]

The hopeful conclusion to the Thiago Alves drama -- turns out that the New Jersey-mandated CT scan a week before the Fitch rematch found an abnormality compared to a 2005 scan of Alves', so he was put in touch with Dr. Alejandro Berenstein, who invented and performed the procedure that found and repaired with Thiago Alves' dangerously-close-to-fusing brain blood vessels. Fortunately no further follow-up should be necessary, although Alves'll always have pre-fight CT scan abnormalities, but so far as he's medically cleared his license should be unaffected.

[weemadando]

THat is good news. I'd seen the footage of him walking around and stuff after the surgery, so confidence was high.

Also - Cage Potato gets Gus Johnson to bite, and bit HARD on a troll they set:

Shit Gets Real - Gus Johnson Defends Strikeforce Commentary in Angry Late-Night Phone Call

That might end up being the most surreal piece of MMA journalism this year.