The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Buritot »

Tiwaz wrote:Can't remember if there was anything regarding actual upkeep of portal. I know bigger they are, long lasting they are, apparently to near self sustaining, but if this applied to portals made from Earth and Hell equally or if all Earth made portals needed constant upkeep I can't remember.
Upkeep is dependant on the universe initiating the portal. Low->High is base energy for opening plus constant upkeep. High->Low is base energy for opening plus vastly reduced upkeep.
Furthermore the upkeep is not directly proportional to portal size. Its function amount doesn't rise as fast as the size. Since there is a constant energy flow from high to low, portals of sufficient size are self-supplying. This same energy flow needs to be overcome for Low->High portals to sustain them.
Tiwaz wrote:First, Hell goes singularity and stays that way until Heaven goes singularity too. Then reverse takes place.
(...)
Third alternative, which goes most against what Stuart stated, is that our little continuum has more pairs. Earth might not be linked to either Heaven or Hell, but some third constricting bubble, of which we yet know nothing of. And Heaven and Hell are linked to someplace else.
A combination thereof is the interpretation I favour.
I think there are many more contracting bubble universes besides Heaven and Hell while Earthverse is the only expanding universe. I suppose the constant expansion keeps the singularizing bubble universe in check until every bubble universe is a singularity. Then they merge into one singularity (or the singularities merge while our universe is still expanding) until it has enough energy to go Big Bang. This in turn ruptures our universe and produces many bubble universe which start to contract. This way we have contracting bubble universes containing mostly empty vacuum, one expanding main universe and the impossibility to circumvent the clause on 'no constant eternal life' Stuart put in.

But this would make escape of annihilation much simpler if the laws of physics are reasonably close to one another over the whole continuum.[/quote]
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Buritot »

GrayAnderson wrote:
Buritot wrote:[overly long simile]
Maybe I should just shoot the simile...
Pop it instead?

Seriously, though, don't worry about it. One thing I know is that in-universe theorizing and theorizing by the author don't always add up, but I did recall a remark somewhere that there was a universe or an energy source on the non-bubbleverse side of Earth.
Pop.

The upside on the theorizing is Stuart may change his definitions and construction of the world so it is in itself more plausible. It's really one undeniable Plus if the author is in contact with the fans. They tend to see flaws or improvements the author doesn't simply because they have a different view on it.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by GrayAnderson »

Buritot wrote:
GrayAnderson wrote:
Buritot wrote:[overly long simile]
Maybe I should just shoot the simile...
Pop it instead?

Seriously, though, don't worry about it. One thing I know is that in-universe theorizing and theorizing by the author don't always add up, but I did recall a remark somewhere that there was a universe or an energy source on the non-bubbleverse side of Earth.
Pop.

The upside on the theorizing is Stuart may change his definitions and construction of the world so it is in itself more plausible. It's really one undeniable Plus if the author is in contact with the fans. They tend to see flaws or improvements the author doesn't simply because they have a different view on it.
That's true. I guess the one thing that I didn't see at the start was the "linked-ness" of the two universes. The way it was initially laid out, mind you, was to the effect that there was basically a stream of energy flowing from Point A through Earth's universe and the Bubbleverse to an unknown point. Also, we do know that there's at least one additional level...though at the same time, we also don't know where that level is located in this scheme (frankly, there's nothing saying it's not conceptually in between the two, just with bizarre physical laws, and that we're just bypassing it on the way to the Bubbleverse).
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Buritot »

GrayAnderson wrote:Also, we do know that there's at least one additional level...though at the same time, we also don't know where that level is located in this scheme (frankly, there's nothing saying it's not conceptually in between the two, just with bizarre physical laws, and that we're just bypassing it on the way to the Bubbleverse).
One additional level... do you mean besides the bubbleverse(s) in which the Other and/or benefactor of Cesar are residing, or do you mean a really significant other level in the energy difference? Since as far as I can remember there is no in-story proof of another level. I can only think of one mentioning: Satan SAID he was using torture to send (daemon) souls to the next level but I don't see any proof of that. In my opinion he said that to keep his people distracted.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by GrayAnderson »

Buritot wrote:
GrayAnderson wrote:Also, we do know that there's at least one additional level...though at the same time, we also don't know where that level is located in this scheme (frankly, there's nothing saying it's not conceptually in between the two, just with bizarre physical laws, and that we're just bypassing it on the way to the Bubbleverse).
One additional level... do you mean besides the bubbleverse(s) in which the Other and/or benefactor of Cesar are residing, or do you mean a really significant other level in the energy difference? Since as far as I can remember there is no in-story proof of another level. I can only think of one mentioning: Satan SAID he was using torture to send (daemon) souls to the next level but I don't see any proof of that. In my opinion he said that to keep his people distracted.
Stuart made a spoiler-covered comment Spoiler
that the hellmouth opened into a third universe with different laws, etc., that was at another level
when I pressed the point. It's not expressly in-story, but Stuart did back it up when I pressed him about issues of conservation of mass on the Hellmouth. There was one other bit, in Chapter 34 of Armageddon; the first lines refer to the "why don't we just nuke a portal" question:
“It won’t work General. Let me show you.” The EM field graphs disappeared and were replaced by an intricate wireframe animation, sprinkled liberally with numeric labels and equations. It seeming to show two spheres stuffed into the ends of a short rubber hose, which was threaded through the centre of a spinning donut. Glowing pinpricks were appearing in the upper region, alighting on the top sphere and streaming along the surface of the tube to the lower sphere, where they dissipated. Meanwhile the surface of the donut rippled and shifted in almost hypnotic patterns.

"This is our current best guess at the actual structure of the portal. We've been given free access to the NSF supercomputing grid, which helps a lot.The coders are still catching up with the theory though and the theory itself still lacks experimental confirmation."

Dr Kuroneko paused. The military types didn't seem to be nearly as concerned about the lack of rigour as the audience at a typical physics conference. He shrugged and continued.

"This is just a projection of course. The real thing is seven dimensional. The energy, or whatever is the equivalent of energy flows down from higher dimensions to lower ones. By the way, there’s no sign of it stopping with us, so there could be as many dimensions 'below' us as there are 'above'. The key to the portals is this constriction in the flow; it's formed of some kind of exotic matter, brought into existence by specific patterns of microwaves. We still don't have an empirical model of how that works..."[.quote]

The two bits taken together seem to say pretty clearly that we've got at least three levels at work here, and probably more.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

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TithonusSyndrome wrote:Why don't we just make Yahweh out to be a genuinely loving old man with a giant flowing beard who has simply been misunderstood and scapegoated by people dissatisfied with their lives on earth, as long as we're leaning on tiresome old religious moderate impressions of Christian icons?
Not a chance. :shock:
Simon_Jester wrote:Dude, we're using the Jesus-as-hippie parody. It's a fairly common joke nowadays, and one that the real fundies love to hate. Not really an "old religious" impression.
Well, so far.
I think the reason the idea is so popular is that the characterization of Heaven is so simple: Yahweh is a delusional superpowered idiot, Michael is plotting to overthrow him, and everybody else is just pawns on the table. It wasn't that simple during the invasion of Hell: there were more players with their own alignments and intentions, a greater sense that Hell's senior leadership weren't just mindless minions.
Right at the start, I said that Pantheocide was conceived as a deliberate mirror-image of Armageddon. That carries through the whole concept of the novel. Armageddon was a broad-canvas work that showed an entire planet going to war in a fight for survival, Pantheocide is very tightly focussed and shows the principal protagonist struggling to prevent a war for survival that he knows his people will lose. Armageddon was set largely on Earth and its protagonists were human, Pantheocide is set largely in heaven and its protagonists are mostly angels. Armageddon was concerned mostly with military operations, Pantheocide is concerned mostly with subversion and corruption.

The two stories also reflect the oscillating balance between the two universes. Armageddon reflected our universe; in it the protagonist's side is expanding, they are winning handily and their power is waxing. In Pantheocide, the protagonist's side is contracting, they are losing the war their power is waning and the brighter people in it are trying to adapt to that fact. Armageddon was about the realization of strength, the humans casting off their indoctrinated assumption of inferiority and understanding that they science and technology has made them superior to the gods they had been brought up to worship. Pantheocide is about the realization of weakness, the otherworlders (angels and daemons) realizing that they have been overtaken and are now the inferior ones who have to accommodate themselves to the new overlords.

Finally, there is the theme of reason. In Armageddon, the daemons never got a chance to reason things out. They stuck with their old ways and, as a result, their entire society was torn down and destroyed with horrendous loss of life. In Pantheocide, Michael-Lan has used reason, he understands that the day of the angels/daemons as the supreme power is gone. He's tried to find a way to save as much as he can from the inevitable chancges that are coming. In doing so, he's becoming more and more human himself. Note he actually questions what he is doing and regrets the necessity of some of his more appalling actions - just as Dave Petraeus knows the human cost of his decisions and regrets that. Michael-Lan is a magnificent bastard but he is both parts of that, he is magnificent but he is also a real bastard. There is a very real difference though between Michael-Lan and his equivalents in Hell. The leading daemons did horrendous things for laughs, because it amused them. All Michael's actions have a specific target in mind, preventing an all-out war with the humans that will result in the destruction of the angelic race. Satan never believed he could be destroyed by the humans (pride). Michael-Lan knows the humans can destroy the angelic race without much effort (humility). The daemons in Hell that are adapting best to the new social order being imposed down there are also becoming more "human" in that they are adopting human mores.
It's like there's The Plan (a combination of Michael plotting to screw over everyone else in Heaven and Petraeus plotting to kill everyone in Heaven), and there's no deviation from The Plan. The only undetermined element is how much of Michael's plan will survive contact with humanity's plan. A story where all the plausible endings are foreseeable well in advance and where there's really only one thinking character on the antagonists' side is... problematic, shall we say. So the idea that Jesus (who's supposed to be fairly powerful) might actually do something to screw up The Plan, rather than simply mindlessly obeying Michael's orders and mindlessly wandering into the HEA's gunsights and getting blown up exactly as planned is rather appealing. It makes the plot more interesting.
Actually, Michael-Lan's plans have changed a lot. Michael is a master of speed-chess. He thinks fast and is constantly changing his plan to match developments. That's why he is so dangerous; he adapts and changes. As to what Jesus does and how he acts, wait and see. Remember, he's never been seen yet, he's only been discussed and talked-about.
The phrase "heat death" really, truly, does not belong here, I'm afraid. Heat death isn't a sudden thing where one minute you're fine and the next BOOM! you're heat-dead. "Heat death" is what happens when particle densities and energy levels are so low (thanks to the spread-out nature of the universe) that nothing interesting can happen anymore. It doesn't have a sudden onset.
But aside from that, it works.
There is a precise point where the last flicker of "something interesting happening" dies away and all we are left with is the cold, dank energyless void. At that precise moment, the other universe reaches the point in its collapse where it reaches a singularity and explodes in a big bang to become an expanding universe. In doing so, it's expansion is matched by the start of the expanded, heat-dead universe starting to collapse.

A key point here. Hell and Heaven are NOT universes in their own right. They are the equivalent of planets in their specific universe just as earth is a planet in its specific universe. Universe-Two (the universe that contains Heaven and Hell plus many hundreds of thousands of millions of other bubble-worlds) is Universe-One (our universe) turned inside out. We live on the outside of planets which float in a cosmos orbiting the sun. that means we can look up and see the other stars, know (or find out) that there are planets circling them and travel through the void to those planets. In Universe-Two, the inhabitants of the worlds live inside the plannets and those "planets" enclose their "sun" although both the terms planet and sun are used loosely here. Just as our universe contains suns and planets of different ages, so does that of Universe Two. So Heaven might be older than Hell (or vice versa) just as some stars are older and some younger than our sun.

So, going to our favorite Ying-Yan diagram again.

Image

Our Earth, represented by the dot in the middle of the white is but a tiny, almost insignificant part of the "white" universe as a whole. Likewise, Hell/Heaven represented by the dot in the middle of the black are but tiny, almost insignificant parts of the black universe as a whole. White and black form a linked pair that is encompassed and contained by the circumfrance of the circle. If we zoom out, we find that there are hundreds of billions of such linked pairs forming the "fundamental particles" of another dimension of reality (whatever, the terminology doesn't really exist) incomparably larger than ours. Implicit in that is that if we ever determine and isolate the fundamental particles of our universe, take one of those particles and analyse it, we will find that it contains a linked pair of universes, unimaginably smaller than ours. And so on ad infinitum, both ways, larger and smaller.

We'll really have to create an TSWverse Wiki one of these days. We did that for TBO and its invaluable.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

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Yeah, or at the least a reference page is needed.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Ruadhan2300 »

possibly some animated diagrams are needed too...the yinyang symbol just doesn't quite cover it I think :P
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Simon_Jester »

Stuart wrote:
I think the reason the idea is so popular is that the characterization of Heaven is so simple: Yahweh is a delusional superpowered idiot, Michael is plotting to overthrow him, and everybody else is just pawns on the table. It wasn't that simple during the invasion of Hell: there were more players with their own alignments and intentions, a greater sense that Hell's senior leadership weren't just mindless minions.
[explains symbolism and basic concept of the novel]
Stuart, I understand why you are writing the story. This does not make the story itself flawless.
It's like there's The Plan (a combination of Michael plotting to screw over everyone else in Heaven and Petraeus plotting to kill everyone in Heaven), and there's no deviation from The Plan. The only undetermined element is how much of Michael's plan will survive contact with humanity's plan. A story where all the plausible endings are foreseeable well in advance and where there's really only one thinking character on the antagonists' side is... problematic, shall we say. So the idea that Jesus (who's supposed to be fairly powerful) might actually do something to screw up The Plan, rather than simply mindlessly obeying Michael's orders and mindlessly wandering into the HEA's gunsights and getting blown up exactly as planned is rather appealing. It makes the plot more interesting.
Actually, Michael-Lan's plans have changed a lot. Michael is a master of speed-chess. He thinks fast and is constantly changing his plan to match developments. That's why he is so dangerous; he adapts and changes. As to what Jesus does and how he acts, wait and see. Remember, he's never been seen yet, he's only been discussed and talked-about.
Absolutely. I'm saying that the reason people keep bringing him up and imagining him surrender, or rat out Michael to his father, or things like that, is that it turns the non-Michael parts of Heaven into something more than just a passive backdrop for Michael's schemes. Which is good.

The fact that Michael's plots have adapted on the fly is nice, after all, but most of his adaptations involve humans. That's the problem I'm seeing here: the humans are active agents, who make decisions that have consequences. Michael is an active agent, likewise. Everyone else in Heaven is more like scenery; what they do is predictable. They don't act so much as they are acted upon.

When you bring Jesus into the story, you have the potential to change that by having him act in a way that nobody planned for, and I think that will improve the novel.
There is a precise point where the last flicker of "something interesting happening" dies away and all we are left with is the cold, dank energyless void.
Yes, but this instant is largely a matter of happenstance: the moment the last red dwarf star burns out is determined by the vagaries of stellar formation. It's not some big cosmological parameter where you can examine the universe in broad and say "Yup, the last interesting event will take place in 3.8621*10^15 years."

To be honest, you can minimize the number of handwaves in your cosmology by dropping the idea of heat death entirely and simply saying that the sidereal universe* reaches its point of maximum expansion at the instant the bubble universes collectively collapse. Nothing else of note happens at this point; it's just that measurements of the Hubble constant flip signs, the cosmic microwave background starts warbling its way back up the spectrum towards the infrared, and so on.

That gives you the cyclic two-stroke engine multiverse you want, without bringing in circumstantial causes(the "moment of heat death") to explain cosmic effects.

If you really want to tie it back into the state of the art, this could be where dark energy comes from: it's actually a measure of the flow of energy between the bubble universes and the sidereal universe. We see energy (the real stuff, not "life energy") flowing into our universe and driving its expansion, and the source of that energy is the collapse of the bubble universes. Detailed measurements of dark energy in our own universe and the rate of collapse in the bubble universes might well be used to prove (or at least confirm) this theory, if it is true.

Check with Kuroneko if you like; he knows a lot more cosmology than I do. He can probably improve on this.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Nematocyst »

Stuart wrote: Well, so far.
That sounds bad. For us, at least. Last thing we need right now so close to our invasion of Heaven is Jesus pulling Sun Tzus on Earth.
Hell and Heaven are NOT universes in their own right. They are the equivalent of planets in their specific universe just as earth is a planet in its specific universe.
What? Abigor looks at the stars and planets of Earth's night sky and mentions how none of those things exist in Hell.
We'll really have to create an TSWverse Wiki one of these days. We did that for TBO and its invaluable.
I'd love to see one!
And HUMANITY said: "it is our duty, not as men or women, not as black or white, but as HUMANS, to defend our species from utter annihilation and damnation. These Beings that for so long believed themselves masters of our destiny finally dropped their facade. HUMANITY will, as one, declare WAR on them. HUMANITY is master of its' own destiny. And we will fight to the last"
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Simon_Jester »

Nematocyst wrote:
Hell and Heaven are NOT universes in their own right. They are the equivalent of planets in their specific universe just as earth is a planet in its specific universe.
What? Abigor looks at the stars and planets of Earth's night sky and mentions how none of those things exist in Hell.
This is straightforward enough. The bubble universe is, in some higher-dimensional sense, a "foam" of individual, unconnected mini-universes, each of which is a closed three-dimensional "bottle." You cannot reach one mini-universe from another except via portal, but the collective set of all mini-universes share certain properties (like, apparently, the closed curve geometry).

Abigor lives in a bubble universe too small to contain stars as we know them, and therefore has no experience of them from Hell. There are other bubble universes, which Stuart is saying are "the equivalent of planets..." but in a real sense they are not equivalent to planets because you can't travel from one to another through the same space. You must instead use portals to leave the space you are now in and find a different one.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Baughn »

The equivalent of planets. It's explained that they live on the inside, so naturally there wouldn't be stars.

Granted, there doesn't seem to be any way to get out - wasn't it stated a while ago that if you dig down far enough, you come up somewhere else?

If the hell-verse "planets" are topologically disconnected, that makes them different universes. Maybe it just takes digging very carefully, or they're connected via a singularity in the centre, or.. something.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Valiran »

Baughn wrote:The equivalent of planets. It's explained that they live on the inside, so naturally there wouldn't be stars.

Granted, there doesn't seem to be any way to get out - wasn't it stated a while ago that if you dig down far enough, you come up somewhere else?

If the hell-verse "planets" are topologically disconnected, that makes them different universes. Maybe it just takes digging very carefully, or they're connected via a singularity in the centre, or.. something.
Ah yes, the physics of the multiverse. When you desperately need a migraine, accept no substitutes.
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just open the portal on Earth and start tossing nuclear-tipped Tomahawks through? Besides, Heaven is nice real estate, and it's a shame to damage nice real estate more than you have to to win the war.
Yes, but it wouldn't be as awesome as punching God with the Sun.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Nematocyst wrote:What? Abigor looks at the stars and planets of Earth's night sky and mentions how none of those things exist in Hell.
Well, there is the terrible atmosphere full of Sulphur et al, that makes it almost English in comparison (but redder).

There might even be a fictional counterpart of me, stationed in hell, posting on Fanfic message boards using the handle, UnderARedSky....
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by PaperJack »

Stuart wrote:
TithonusSyndrome wrote:Why don't we just make Yahweh out to be a genuinely loving old man with a giant flowing beard who has simply been misunderstood and scapegoated by people dissatisfied with their lives on earth, as long as we're leaning on tiresome old religious moderate impressions of Christian icons?
Not a chance. :shock:
Will we find the Norse Gods in another cosmobubble ?
I hope they are much better bros than Yahweh and Satan.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by Stuart »

The Montmartre Club, Eternal City, Heaven

It had been a long time since Maion-Lan-Lemuel had been outside the Club. At first, she had wanted to leave, she had even half-heartedly planned to escape, but the opportunity had never really presented itself. So, she had resigned herself to her new life and tried to adapt to it as best she could. In the process, she had learned of its advantages and they were not just restricted to the supply of white powder that she needed so badly. As her familiarity with her new life had grown, she had come to enjoy being the center of attraction and desire. Then of course, the lessons she had been patiently taught by Charmeine-Lan and the other angels who worked at the club. Lessons that she had used to catch Lemuel and persuade him to become her patron. She knew very well that Lemuel's patronage of her was part of some larger scheme Michael was concocting but to her that didn't matter. All that she cared about was that she had a much better life now than anything she could have hoped for earlier. It hadn't seemed so at the time but Michael-Lan had done her a great service.

She closed her eyes briefly and then checked herself in the great mirrors that marked the entry to the Club. She checked her hair to make sure that it was styled to perfection in a manner that Lemuel found particularly becoming. Her make-up was perfectly in place and that alone was a mark of how far she had come for few female angels used it. Her robe was new, perfect and draped around her just so. She checked her jewelry to make sure it was all items that Lemuel had given her. A quick turn showed that her wing feathers had been groomed and arranged to perfection. She nodded, she was looking as near-perfect as she could be and was that meant she was honoring Lemuel properly.

"Don’t worry, you look fine." The voice came from behind her and she turned carefully to face the speaker. Leilah-Lan-Charmeine was standing there, complete in what Maion thought of as her professional outfit. It was as different from the traditional Angelic robes as was possible, all of it black leather with dress and spiked boots glistening with metal buckles. Her wing feathers had been dyed black as well and the general effect was intimidating. Which was its purpose of course.

"So do you, you look . . . . different." Maion stumbled, looking for the right word for she knew that Leilah was one of Michael's close associates.

Leilah giggled. "I know what you mean. Still, its what my particular clients like." Then she got very serious, very quickly. "Be careful Maion, things have changed in Heaven since you were outside the club last. There was another bombing last night, at a the Temple of Enduring Adulation. Eight angels and a lot of humans killed." And one of the angels was a major-league Yahweh supporter. One of many killed in the bombing campaign that is rocking The Eternal City. The League of Holy Court still hasn't worked out that mixed in with the miscellaneous dead are all of the most prominent Yahweh loyalists. But then they wouldn’t, not with their chief investigator besotted with you.

"Oh no." Maion put her hand to her mouth.

"So be careful. Where are you going?"

"My patron Lemuel has asked me to his palace for our evening meal and to listen to reverential music."

Yeah right little one. And the music in question will you be going ohhh-ohhh-ohhh. "That is a great honor. You have done well Maion. Now, I have one of my patrons waiting and he has been a bad, bad archangel. Enjoy your evening."

Maion watched Leilah disappear into the main body of the Club, stopping only to speak quickly with one of the messengers. Then, she took a deep breath, put her hand on one of the walls of the maze as she had been taught and started to walk out. All she had to do was to keep that hand on that wall until she came to the landmark when she would put the other hand on the other wall. And that would lead her out. As indeed it did.

The clear white light on the street was much brighter than she remembered from before her days in the Club. It hurt her eyes and she was afraid that it would make them water and that would spoil her makeup. Still, she was out of the Club, walking on the streets in a way she had thought she never would again. Once she had blamed Michael for what had happened to her but no more. It was her fault that she had been inside for so long, if she had worked harder in the club and been more agreeable in her earlier days, she would have found her patron sooner. She had brought her problems on herself, she understood that now. Michael-Lan had been kind to stand by her, just as she knew he always would.

She paused quickly to orientate herself and set off down the Boulevard that would take her to Lemuel's palace. She had briefly contemplated taking a chariot to carry her there but her mind, still not quite used to her new status, had rebelled at the expense. It wasn't as if the distance was very great or that one got dirty walking on the streets of the Eternal City. In any case, the walk would be good exercise and she appreciated the chance to look around. One thing that struck her was the way the other female angels on the street looked at her. Curiously, as if she was some strange creature. Some with envy, some with jealousy, a few with outright hate. Stealthily, she stole another glance into a great sheet of precious stone that reflected the street scene in front of it. She couldn’t see why she was the object of interest, she was more attractive than the other female angels, but that was due to her makeup, not any fineness of features or symmetry of face. She was a bit better dressed than most and her jewelry was better, that was all. So jealousy and dislike? Quite inexplicable.

Maion became aware of something else as she walked down the street. There was an air of fear around. That wasn't quite right, it wasn't fear so much as tension, perhaps apprehension. People were on their guard, ready to take cover if there should be a sudden blast. But, there was more to it than that. With a degree of shock Maion realized that they were also watching each other, wondering if the angel next to them was the informer whose word could cause them to be whisked away to an unknown fate. As her appreciation of the situation sank in, Maion found herself wanting to be back in the safety of the Montmartre Club.

Ironically, it was probably the realization that the Eternal City was no longer the safe, trusting place it had once been that caused Maion to drop what little guard she had up. She started to hurry along the street, passing the ruin that had once been a temple before it had been bombed. Very conveniently bombed because that was where the ambush came. It was swift, sure and certain. Maion felt a heavy cloth being thrown over her head and strong arms wrapped around her waist. The attack was so unexpected and so unprecedented that her first reaction was to think that her hairstyle would be ruined and her make-up smeared. By the time she realized that she was genuinely in serious danger, her arms and wings were pinned and she was being dragged into the ruined temple. She felt herself smothering in the heavy folds of the cloth and tried to fight her way clear but the grip holding her was too strong. Then, she felt the gentle temperate warmth of Heaven replaced by a bitter, piercing cold. Even choking in the folds of the hood over her head, the icy cold took her breath away but it only lasted for an instant before she could feel herself back in Heaven.

Maion tried to kick out but a heavy blow to her stomach left her gasping and another to the back of her neck sent her sprawling to the floor. Then, she was dragged along a stone-floored passageway and thrown through a door. The cloth over her head was pulled away but before she could look around, the door was slammed behind her. She was in a tiny room, one so small she couldn't even stretch her wings out fully. It was painted white but the only light was a single dim patch in the ceiling. Even as she watched, something was drawn across it so she was left in complete darkness.

Slums, The Eternal City, Heaven

"We have got her, Mighty Lord. Just a few minutes ago as you ordered. She was picked up on the road to the Palace of Lemuel and taken to a holding place in another part of the city, by way of the staging place in Antarctica, just as you ordered. Now, she is secure in one of our cells there." Qaphsiel-Lan-Shekinah sounded inordinately proud of himself.

"Was she hurt?" Michael-Lan asked the question tersely. The plot was under way and there was now no turning back. Uneasily, he remembered that long, long ago, another of Yahweh's primary Lieutenants, his own brother in fact, had also tried to stage a coup. And failed. But we were different people then. Yahweh wasn't the power-mad fool he is today, Satan was still alive and I was still bedazzled by the wonders Yahweh had created. And we did not have the humans to teach us how to stage coups properly.

"A little, Mighty Lord. She fought us when we got back from Antarctica so my men struck her in the stomach and again on the back of the head. Hard enough to subdue her. Now she is locked away, in complete darkness and silence. Like Onniel."

"Darkness and silence will be adequate for Onniel. They will make her pliant. But Maion is to be well-treated. Allow her light and let those guarding her speak with her. Feed her well, ask her what food she would like and if possible get it for her. She must remember she was violently abducted but well-treated once in your hands. Above all though, she is to see the faces of nobody else."

"Your words are our commands, Mighty Lord. All will be as you say."

They had damned well better be "Where are the prisoners being held?"

Qaphsiel-Lan-Shekinah gave Michael the location he had chosen. Michael-Lan took mental note of it and then took the next vital step. "You must guard that location well. Move all your people there and wait for my word. It will not be long in coming. Now, I have an urgent appointment. Get to the holding area and wait."

Lemuel's Home, Eternal City, Heaven

Michael-Lan looked at Lemuel and felt distinctly guilty. Not because he knew Maion was now sitting in a prison cell, held captive by terrorists but because he hadn't arranged for his friend to throw Onniel out and be provided with a new mate earlier. Lemuel was looking almost childishly happy as he and Michael looked through the League of Holy Court intelligence on the bombings hat continued to rock the Eternal City. Every so often, he kept sneaking a look at the time, as if he was counting the minutes until Maion arrived. In the end, his looks were so obvious that Michael reached out and shielded the time from him.

"She is that good my old friend?"

"She is, Michael. She makes me feel young and wanted. She looks after me and devotes herself to me. I would have her as mate were it not for her lowly status."

"That can be changed you know. Many of the most loyal," to me of course "will see their status raised after this is all over. So many of high status have been killed or found guilty of treason there will be many promotions to take their place. You, my old friend, will become Chayot Ha Kodesh if it is in my power to grant this. And your friend Mary, she is Hashmallim?"

"Maion, Michael. And she is only Malakhim."

"No matter, in fact it would make things easier for raising a Malakhim is certainly within my power. Let me see now, an Erelim would be about right I think." Erelim meaning valiant and courageous. If, after all this is finished, anybody dare argue that title for Maion, they will have me to answer to for never will a title have been more deserved.

"Maion? An Erelim? I don’t know what to say. Michael, that would be suitable even if I became Chayot Ha Kodesh."

"There we are then. See, such problems are easily solved. I wish these bombings were so easily unraveled."

"They have the League at a loss Michael-Lan. Every time we think we see a pattern forming, it dissolves before my eyes."

Of course it does Lemuel. The information is brought to me and I make sure the next wave of attacks contradicts that pattern. It really does help when those charged with countering a plot are those who are behind it. "This is most confusing, I will tell you Lemuel, there is a powerful mind behind this, one who has seen human tactics at work and adapted them to our environment here in Heaven. A powerful mind indeed."

"Could it be . . . Azrael?" Lemuel's voice was hushed, even as an Ophanim it was a major thing to name one of the Chayot Ha Kodesh has the mind behind the outbreak of terrorism in the Eternal City.

"Personally, I wouldn’t have thought him equal to this and he did well in the attack on New York. It needs a greater mind somehow . . . . . . " Come on, old friend, take the bait.

"But there is only one mind greater than a Chayot Ha Kodesh. That would be . .. . .. . . " The immensity of the blasphemy he had been about to commit struck Lemuel dumb.

"You are right of course. Anything else is unimaginable. It must be Azrael, Perhaps we will get the evidence we need soon."

As they spoke, Michael watched the shadows of evening lengthen and Lemuel get agitated. He passed from excitement at her coming through irritation at her lateness and then to worry about her safety. Eventually he decided it was time to act. "Lemuel, old friend, something is seriously wrong isn't it?"

"Maion is never late. If she says a time she is there on the beat. Never a second late."

I know, Charmeine spoke highly of her qualities of punctuality. "Then we had better go looking for her. If she arrives here, your staff will look after her well I am sure. We will go out to meet her. Perhaps her work held her up." Which is why, the first thing I am going to do is get telephones installed in Heaven. I'd love to have my Iphone work up here. All those apps.

"Zahuliel-Lan-Lemuel? Hear me. The Mighty Lord Michael-Lan and I are going out to look for the lady Maion. If she arrives here, make her welcome until we will return."

"I hear and obey, Most Noble Ophanim."

Michael and Lemuel inflated their flight sacs and took off, flying slowly down the main street away from Lemuel's Palace."

"Which way will she be coming old friend?"

"Along this street, I am sure."

So am I. Or she was. Below them, an officer of the League of Holy Court noted the two angels flying overhead and was about to rebuke them when he recognized them. Flying inside city limits was discouraged now but such restrictions did not apply to the Mighty General Michael-Lan and anybody he chose to have with him. A little further down the street, Lemuel saw a group of people clustered by a temple, one of those destroyed by a bombing. He waved for Michael's attention and back-winged to land by the group.

"What happened here?" As a chief investigator for the League of Holy Court, his word was law and his questions were answered. Instantly. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw Michael-Lan staying back and letting him do the questioning.

"Some men grabbed a young female angel and pulled her into the ruins and then vanished."

"And you did nothing to aid her?" Lemuel was furious, in his mind it was obvious who the victim had been.

"Most Noble Ophanim, we thought it was business of the League. There have been so many arrests.. . ."

"You fools. The League does not arrest that way." He pulled a small painting of Maion from a pocket of his robes. "Was this her?"

"It was, Most Noble Ophanim."

"We'd better get back to your palace Lemuel." Michael spoke quietly. "There may be word there. This could all be a foolish misunderstanding or an error of identity. We had better get to work clearing it up."

The flight back was fast and Lemuel tore through his palace, in case Maion had arrived. But Zahuliel-Lan-Lemuel told him that nothing had been heard of her. By the time he got back, Michael-Lan was holding a scroll in his hands. "This was on your steps Lemuel. Perhaps you had better see what it is." Because I already know.

Lemuel tore the scroll open. Two bloodstained white wing feathers fell out as he read the terse note within.

"What does it say old friend?"

"It is from The League of Divine Justice. They say they have taken Maion captive and unless we release all the political prisoners by noon tomorrow, they will start to send her back, piece by piece. Starting with her nose."

Lemuel was shaking, almost on the verge of tears. Michael strode over to him and wrapped an arm around his shoulders. "Don’t worry old friend. I won't let that happen. I have people who can work miracles in this sort of situation and they'll find Maion for us."

"Who can work miracles beyond those of the Chayot Ha Kodesh Michael?"

"Humans."
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Eight Up

Post by PaperJack »

Stuart has anyone ever told you that your work is awesome and you are awesome ?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Eight Up

Post by Hofner1962 »

PaperJack wrote:Stuart has anyone ever told you that your work is awesome and you are awesome ?
Yes, but I don't think it can be said enough. Truly a great installment Stuart.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Stuart wrote: "Who can work miracles beyond those of the Chayot Ha Kodesh Michael?"

"Humans."
I totally didn't see that coming. And I pooped a little when I read it.

So now Michael isn't going to be waiting for things to come crashing down, he's going to become 'Our Man in Heaven' for the duration. Fascinating, really.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Seven Up

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Stuart wrote:
TithonusSyndrome wrote:Why don't we just make Yahweh out to be a genuinely loving old man with a giant flowing beard who has simply been misunderstood and scapegoated by people dissatisfied with their lives on earth, as long as we're leaning on tiresome old religious moderate impressions of Christian icons?
Not a chance. :shock:
Might as well if you're going to go with Hippie Jesus, since the two are equally frustrated and uninspired moderate Christian reimaginings for cynical PR purposes.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Eight Up

Post by Nematocyst »

So he wants us to fight the garrison and break Onniel and Maion free?
What makes Michael think we won't simply blast the place to the ground? What makes him think we want prisoners?

And how is he going to show us the way in, if not by the Heavenly Host?

Awesome installment as always.

TithonusSyndrome wrote:
Stuart wrote:
TithonusSyndrome wrote:Why don't we just make Yahweh out to be a genuinely loving old man with a giant flowing beard who has simply been misunderstood and scapegoated by people dissatisfied with their lives on earth, as long as we're leaning on tiresome old religious moderate impressions of Christian icons?
Not a chance. :shock:
Might as well if you're going to go with Hippie Jesus, since the two are equally frustrated and uninspired moderate Christian reimaginings for cynical PR purposes.
It is still unknown if he's going to go with Hippie Jesus. 'Wait and see'
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And HUMANITY said: "it is our duty, not as men or women, not as black or white, but as HUMANS, to defend our species from utter annihilation and damnation. These Beings that for so long believed themselves masters of our destiny finally dropped their facade. HUMANITY will, as one, declare WAR on them. HUMANITY is master of its' own destiny. And we will fight to the last"
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Eight Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

We don't NEED prisoners, but if we can get 20% of the angels of heaven and some of the senior leadership to flip on Yaweh, we can avoid fighting in the streets with a billion humans in the crossfire.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Eight Up

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

And potentially allow Michael to paint himself as an innocent caught up in Yahweh's vindictiveness who did everything he could to prevent the suffering of humans.

I could be the minority here, but since Yahweh's pretty much going to get taken down anyways, the fish I wanna see caught is Michael-lan, by FAR. The smug dweeb isn't nearly as clever as he thinks he is; he's just a relatively larger fish in a pond full of smaller ones, with respect to scheming ability.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Eight Up

Post by ANTIcarrot »

Nematocyst wrote:So he wants us to fight the garrison and break Onniel and Maion free?
What makes Michael think we won't simply blast the place to the ground? What makes him think we want prisoners?
What makes you think the humans will have a choice? If you can create and move a portal quickly enough you can scoop up a bunch of them before they know what's happening. "Do this little thing for me and you can go home with maps of heaven, and other forms of military intelligence. Or you can wait here for 20 million soldiers to arrive and wipe you out. Your choice."

There is also more to humanity than the Americans HEA. I imagine even North Korean troops (for example) would be able to pull this operation off. And since many nations seem to not entirely trust the Americans HEA, Michael might not need to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get the soldiers he needs.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Fifty Eight Up

Post by FireNexus »

TithonusSyndrome wrote:I could be the minority here, but since Yahweh's pretty much going to get taken down anyways, the fish I wanna see caught is Michael-lan, by FAR. The smug dweeb isn't nearly as clever as he thinks he is; he's just a relatively larger fish in a pond full of smaller ones, with respect to scheming ability.
Michael is fighting to protect his species from the destruction it was hurtling into due to the insanity of a power-mad dictator. Michael is no peach, but he's certainly not as big of a scumbag as you seem to think(EDIT: At least not anymore.) Yes, he's been responsible for attacks on humans, but to act in any other manner would have resulted in the genocide of his species. What would you do?
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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