Home Suggestions Thread

[Praxis]

Hello all,

For starters, I wanted to pop in and say hi again. I believe I was around 14 when I joined StarDestroyer.net. Some good times there. Some of you might remember me as the obnoxious Apple fanboy. xD

Anyway, I'm 22 now, and work in IT supporting Windows-based systems in medical environments (a lot of the executives run Macs, and there has been some effort towards moving everything we do towards being platform agnostic). I just recently (i.e. closed last week) bought my first house.

With the economy and depressed local housing market, I was able to get an excellent price. That said, I need to do a lot of work on the house, including quite a bit of electrical work (some parts of the house have knob-and-tube wiring that needs to be removed). Additionally, the rather spacious upstairs is completely unfinished, so I'm going to frame out and build a bathroom, second living room, and bedroom.

Since I need electrical work done downstairs, and there is no drywall upstairs yet; I figure now is the perfect time to get the house ready for my future uses, from a tech perspective. I wanted to see if those of you here had any suggestions.


For starters, I picked up a 24-port patch panel and a gigabit switch, and am going to wire up the house with CAT6 cable. I'm planning to build a cheap PC to set up with RAID 5 and several 1- or 2-TB hard drives, and install FreeNAS and share it across the network (possibly also using it as a proxy server, VPN server, FTP server, and UPnP server to my PS3/Wii running homebrew).

I don't know much about sound systems. Does a surround sound setup require cabling behind the drywall? Are HDMI cables flexible enough to be run around corners well?

Does anyone have any suggestions as to any other things I could do before I get the drywall up?


Thanks all

[phongn]

You don't have to put cabling behind the walls for surround sound ... but it sure does look nicer. Hit up Monoprice for all your needs. For future-proofing you should probably run four speaker cables to the rear even if you won't use surround sound now or you'll only use two rear channels.

Longer HDMI runs will require heavier cables which won't be as happy running around corners. It's not really designed to be a long-run interconnect.

You'll probably want to run RG6 cable to each room as well; some people suggest two drops per room for convenience sake though it increases the cost of of splitters and amps (same goes for ethernet ports).

Are you also going to run standard phone lines to each room?

Finally, consider using conduit to make future expansion easy, and also consider making an easy way for future technologies to enter your home (e.g. CAT6, RJ11 and RG6 connection to a garage or the point-of-entry)

[Praxis]

Side question:

I might also get a HDTV. The under-$1000 range looks excellent now that LED and 3DTVs are pushing the older, 120 Hz, 1080p TVs down.

So...for gaming, how much effect will response time give me? As odd as this sounds, despite my technical inclinations, I'm still using a 54" SDTV right now. I play Smash Bros competitively, and competitive games (Smash, Street Fighter, MvC2, TvC) require players to think at frame-level. Unfortunately, HDTV's will introduce a few frames of lag due to the fact that the Wii can only output an analog 480i signal. So, I want to minimize this as much as possible. Is the response time what I should be looking at?

Of note: Smash tournaments have traditionally kept old SD TV's for their venues so as to eliminate the lag problem; MLG this year is using HDTV's, but specifically buying ones optimized to have the minimum possible lag (game modes, fast response time, etc etc). No tournament players use Wavebirds, because of the extra 1-2 frames of lag it adds, even though most (99.9%) Wavebird owners won't ever notice this.

[phongn]

Uh, the Wii can output 480p via component. Response time does not necessarily account for the delay, it depends on the manufacturer.

[Praxis]

You don't have to put cabling behind the walls for surround sound ... but it sure does look nicer. Hit up Monoprice for all your needs. For future-proofing you should probably run four speaker cables to the rear even if you won't use surround sound now or you'll only use two rear channels.

Thanks!

You'll probably want to run RG6 cable to each room as well; some people suggest two drops per room for convenience sake though it increases the cost of of splitters and amps (same goes for ethernet ports).

Good point, thanks.

Reminds me of another question. If I run the CAT6 cable down the same paths as the existing electrical cables, just how badly is it likely to affect my performance? I know that, in the business setting, I wouldn't consider it, but for the home...

Are you also going to run standard phone lines to each room?

I'm not sure, actually. Should I? I'm debating whether I should drop my landline altogether (my biggest reason not to is that I love my phone number, which repeats the same number 5 times xD ).

Uh, the Wii can output 480p via component. Response time does not necessarily account for the delay, it depends on the manufacturer.

True. But it's still an analog, low-res signal, and results in a measure of lag.

What does response time measure, technically, then?

[Praxis]

Oops, ignore.

[phongn]

Reminds me of another question. If I run the CAT6 cable down the same paths as the existing electrical cables, just how badly is it likely to affect my performance? I know that, in the business setting, I wouldn't consider it, but for the home...

Is your data important? Yes? Then follow the suggestions in this document (PDF). In short - separate unscreened/unshielded data and power cables by 200mm and cross at 90 degree angles.

Are you also going to run standard phone lines to each room?

I'm not sure, actually. Should I? I'm debating whether I should drop my landline altogether (my biggest reason not to is that I love my phone number, which repeats the same number 5 times xD ).

Up to you. You can use unshielded twisted pair (UTP) for phone as well (though it's going to be more expensive than the standard stuff). Some people prefer running individually to each drop and using a punch block.

Oh, point. But it's still an analog, low-res signal, and results in a measure of lag.

What does response time measure, technically, then?

Response time depends - it can measure gray-to-gray or black-to-white time.

Honestly, I can't see how it'd matter too much: split-screen will give the same lag to all players and online play is dominated by network latency.

[aerius]

Are you also going to run standard phone lines to each room?

I'm not sure, actually. Should I? I'm debating whether I should drop my landline altogether (my biggest reason not to is that I love my phone number, which repeats the same number 5 times xD ).

I'd keep the landline along with an old fashioned non-cordless phone. If you get a widespread electrical blackout like the one in 2003, cellphones won't work anymore but landlines will still be up & running.

[phongn]

I'd keep the landline along with an old fashioned non-cordless phone. If you get a widespread electrical blackout like the one in 2003, cellphones won't work anymore but landlines will still be up & running.

Well, as long as the PSTN's backup generators are still running

[General Zod]

Side question:

I might also get a HDTV. The under-$1000 range looks excellent now that LED and 3DTVs are pushing the older, 120 Hz, 1080p TVs down.

So...for gaming, how much effect will response time give me? As odd as this sounds, despite my technical inclinations, I'm still using a 54" SDTV right now. I play Smash Bros competitively, and competitive games (Smash, Street Fighter, MvC2, TvC) require players to think at frame-level. Unfortunately, HDTV's will introduce a few frames of lag due to the fact that the Wii can only output an analog 480i signal. So, I want to minimize this as much as possible. Is the response time what I should be looking at?

Of note: Smash tournaments have traditionally kept old SD TV's for their venues so as to eliminate the lag problem; MLG this year is using HDTV's, but specifically buying ones optimized to have the minimum possible lag (game modes, fast response time, etc etc). No tournament players use Wavebirds, because of the extra 1-2 frames of lag it adds, even though most (99.9%) Wavebird owners won't ever notice this.

On response time, I have a 47" LG with a 6ms response. I can't notice any kind of input lag when it comes to fast paced games at all. Anything under 6ms (which is most TVs) and you should be fine. Admittedly I mostly play 360 and PS3 games with HDMI cables, I've hardly touched my Wii all year.

[Beowulf]

You'll probably want to run RG6 cable to each room as well; some people suggest two drops per room for convenience sake though it increases the cost of of splitters and amps (same goes for ethernet ports).

It should be noted that you don't necessarily have to have every drop connected at once, so if you have a convenient comm closet (or other area you can stick all your comm gear into), you could simply make sure that all the outlets are labeled on both ends, so that you can easily have them hooked up as necessary.

[Praxis]

There's an open space right between the outer wall and stairs that's wide enough for someone to stand in, but not tall enough due to the slanting roof. I'm going to turn that into a data closet. Not sure if I'm going to put a rack in there or find some clever way to stand up/mount the patch panel (maybe even in the drywall?) I have.



A thought that occurred to me; does anyone know anything about home automation?

[Phantasee]

I remember IBM(?) used to have a computer that could control your lights and stuff, but that was back in the late 90s (97?). I haven't seen too much since then.

[Stark]

On response time, I have a 47" LG with a 6ms response. I can't notice any kind of input lag when it comes to fast paced games at all. Anything under 6ms (which is most TVs) and you should be fine. Admittedly I mostly play 360 and PS3 games with HDMI cables, I've hardly touched my Wii all year.

Wanker idiots complaining about lag aside, it's more important to consider the visual tearing you get from an HDTV's post-processing being unable to keep up with wildly variable input. Playing Gears on my TV with all the knobs turned on is a hideous pizza because unlike a film it can't look a few frames ahead to see where you're going. Most TVs have a specific mode to turn this off and several have certain plugs that bypass those elements.

[General Zod]

On response time, I have a 47" LG with a 6ms response. I can't notice any kind of input lag when it comes to fast paced games at all. Anything under 6ms (which is most TVs) and you should be fine. Admittedly I mostly play 360 and PS3 games with HDMI cables, I've hardly touched my Wii all year.

Wanker idiots complaining about lag aside, it's more important to consider the visual tearing you get from an HDTV's post-processing being unable to keep up with wildly variable input. Playing Gears on my TV with all the knobs turned on is a hideous pizza because unlike a film it can't look a few frames ahead to see where you're going. Most TVs have a specific mode to turn this off and several have certain plugs that bypass those elements.

The only game I've ever noticed any kind of tearing on was Darksiders. But that was more due to the game being actually buggy than a problem with my TV.

[Stark]

It's not a problem, it's a consequence of all the mojo TVs do to the image to improve it. Amusingly the 'game mode' many TVs have only turn off some of these features.

It sucks too because the contrast malarky my TV does makes games look great... Until you move.

[SCRawl]

Another thought about network cable: you might want to put an outlet near where your entertainment system will be. Blu-Ray players like to have an ethernet connection, and you might have one some day.

I renovated my basement a couple of years ago, and ran 14ga speaker wire to where I'd need it, terminating in junction boxes -- having the walls down makes that much easier. I also put a piece of 2" PVC pipe to run behind the wall, to run future cabling as necessary. (I have a 35' HDMI cable running from my computer to my TV, for example.)

Oh, and you might also want to consider some sound attenuation. I put some of that green insulation in the ceiling and the interior walls, to help deaden the sound. You can go to pretty serious lengths to do this, but my approach was relatively simple and half-assed. It still helps, though.

[General Zod]

Another thought about network cable: you might want to put an outlet near where your entertainment system will be. Blu-Ray players like to have an ethernet connection, and you might have one some day.

Or he could get a bluray player with wireless networking.

[SCRawl]

Another thought about network cable: you might want to put an outlet near where your entertainment system will be. Blu-Ray players like to have an ethernet connection, and you might have one some day.

Or he could get a bluray player with wireless networking.

Well, yeah, the existence of wireless Blu-ray players isn't exactly a secret. I just figured that as long as the walls were down he might as well put a jack there, in the event that a wireless device is either inconvenient or undesirable. What are we talking about, $15 worth of hardware?

[Praxis]

On response time, I have a 47" LG with a 6ms response. I can't notice any kind of input lag when it comes to fast paced games at all. Anything under 6ms (which is most TVs) and you should be fine. Admittedly I mostly play 360 and PS3 games with HDMI cables, I've hardly touched my Wii all year.

Wanker idiots complaining about lag aside, it's more important to consider the visual tearing you get from an HDTV's post-processing being unable to keep up with wildly variable input. Playing Gears on my TV with all the knobs turned on is a hideous pizza because unlike a film it can't look a few frames ahead to see where you're going. Most TVs have a specific mode to turn this off and several have certain plugs that bypass those elements.

Keep in mind that I'm not complaining about lag on a game like Gears. There's additional lag introduced when the HDTV upscales an analog, non-native-resolution signal like that produced by the Wii in real time. I'm not really sure that response time is the spec I should be looking for for that though.

I'll probably just grab another competitive Smash player when I go HDTV shopping and ask if I can hook my Wii up to it.

Quickest Google result: http://gear.ign.com/articles/712/712352p1.html

Here's the meat of the native resolution issue: While just about any HDTV can accept any other signal, like a 1366x768 native resolution HD-LCD accepting a 1080i signal from an HD-DVD player, the incoming signal must be scaled to match the native resolution of the TV, in this case down from 1920x1080 to 1366x768. This sort of processing takes real work to accomplish, which is handled by the internal scaling circuitry of the HDTV. The heaviest load usually occurs when an HDTV must up-scale a 480i signal to native resolution, which requires both enlarging the image and converting the signal from interlaced (the 'i' in 480i) to progressive-scan (the 'p' in 480p, 720p etc.).

Essentially, it's a much bigger problem with a Wii (which can only output 480i/p) than with a PS3 or 360 (which can match the native resolution of the HDTV).



@ SCRawl, good idea. I think I'm going to try to at least one Ethernet port in every room except the kitchen and bathroom, with extra ones near TVs and computer setups.

Though, for now, my PS3 will be my Blu-ray player; but since I have gigabit ethernet, I'd rather use that to stream than 802.11g.

I think I might run some speaker wire for future 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound. I've never worked with speaker wire before; any tips, or is it fairly straightforward?

[SCRawl]

I think I might run some speaker wire for future 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound. I've never worked with speaker wire before; any tips, or is it fairly straightforward?

I just ran some stuff that claims to be 14ga oxygen-free copper speaker wire from my entertainment unit area (which is in one corner of the room) through the studs to where the speakers will be. I only put in wiring for 5.1, though; if I want 7.1 I'll have to either have exposed wires or go through the suspended ceiling.

Disclaimer: I'm not an audiophile. Some of the better informed members might tell you that this woefully inadequate and an insult to the human aural function, and I'm in no position to say that they're wrong. It works just fine for me, though.