Stormtrooper vs. Klingon Warrior

[Darth Garden Gnome]

All good points Ossus, however it was said earlier that the stormie was, for whatever reason, unarmored to make it more fair I believe. To sum it up, using the EU (we won't debate its canonicity here) we know that stormies are pretty good with virbo-weapons. We know a force pike has a huge advantage over a ba'leths, and that Klingons are bumbling idiots when it comes to combat.

Stormie wins, 'nuff said.

[Isolder74]

by Isolder74

Yes, it is easy to make a Sword look cool!

Add a couple of tassles, a few strategically placed gems, and cool looking hilt and presto! you have kick ass weapon!

Don't forget a few ancient Runes, Add a little magic(Make it glow, ect), and give it a impressive name, and you have a kick butt weapon

[Next of Kin]

Isolder74, here we have a Klingon Batleth with none of the above mentioned items that would turn into a kick-ass weapon.

[img]http://members.aol.com/jandjchen4/pak3l.jpg[img]

Oh wait, it has rope around the handle grips![/img]

[Next of Kin]

Here we go!

[Isolder74]

Here we go!

vs Sting and Glamdring



BTW Glamdring is Gandalf's sword

[Next of Kin]

Sting and Glamdring are quite impressive but my Batleth has a third grip! Gee, am I falling for style over substance?

To hit your opponent with a Batleth must you swing the Batleth over your and then down on your opponent? Does anyone know how the Klingons use these awkward weapons?

[Next of Kin]

Now here's a stylin' Batleth!

[Master of Ossus]

To hit your opponent with a Batleth must you swing the Batleth over your and then down on your opponent? Does anyone know how the Klingons use these awkward weapons?

The only possible explanation is that in Klingons different muscle groups are stronger than in humans. The only ways a human could wield this weapon are the overhand slam (virtually worthless in actual combat, as both Gowron and Qui-Gon have showed us), the "baseball bat" approach (sideways, reasonably powerful, but once again leaving one completely open to a stab with either a dagger or a sword), and holding it in front of you with both hands while rocking the weapon back and forth (ala American Gladiators). The third approach, while comical, is actually the best that one could hope to achieve with such a piece of crap. Note that it is the only method that allows one to defend with one end of the blade while attacking with the other end, and it is really the only method that allows one to defend himself at all. This appears to be the Klingon's preferred method of combat. Using the little protrusions from the main blade, they lock their bat'leths together and try and out-muscle their opponents, much like deer or moose during mating season. Note how crappy this attack actually is. My conclusion is that the bat'leth is only useful as a ceremonial weapon, and is a disaster in actual combat. This is demonstrated by the show.

[Next of Kin]

By Master of Ossus:

My conclusion is that the bat'leth is only useful as a ceremonial weapon, and is a disaster in actual combat. This is demonstrated by the show.

Point well taken. Thus, the Klingon dagger would be more of an effective weapon than the batleth or for that matter so would a length of lead pipe.

[Master of Ossus]

Point well taken. Thus, the Klingon dagger would be more of an effective weapon than the batleth or for that matter so would a length of lead pipe.

Yeah, it very well might be. Note that while the dagger suffers from a lack of reach, it is also lighter. Also note that the bat'leth cannot really be used unless one first leaves himself open to attack. While not an effective weapon (its handle is unreasonably long, the little sharp protrusions don't do jack), it is actually potentially more practical in combat than the bat'leth. Also note that the daggers have considerable advantages in ease of use, maintanance, and weight. A soldier with a bat'leth may only use the bat'leth, but a soldier can easily use a dagger and a pistol or similar at the same time. Thus, a fighting force should equip its forces with daggers instead of bat'leths, and invest in disruptor pistols or similar.

[Isolder74]

Sting and Glamdring are quite impressive but my Batleth has a third grip! Gee, am I falling for style over substance?

To hit your opponent with a Batleth must you swing the Batleth over your and then down on your opponent? Does anyone know how the Klingons use these awkward weapons?

Well Glamdring is a two handed sword that is balenced to be used for one hand as well quite a impressive weapon. not to mention Aragorn's and Legolas' swords are awsome. Well the who show's weapons are awsome. the fellowship would murtalize an equal number of Klingon warriors.

[Master of Ossus]

Isolder, by "Aragorn's sword" do you mean Narsil? Or the one that he actually used during the FotR?

[spongyblue]

If I remember correctly and someone hasn't pointed it out befor, didn't a stormtrooper carry a forcepike while riding a dewback in ANH? I think even the toy came with it. I don't think he would be carrying a longe stick like that on the back of an animal for the fuck of it.

[Eleas]

The only ways a human could wield this weapon are the overhand slam (virtually worthless in actual combat, as both Gowron and Qui-Gon have showed us)

This sounds wrong. I train with bokken once every week, and am proficient in Kendo techniques. Almost all of those techniques are delivered from above, something you claim to be worthless in actual combat. However, if that were true, sideways cuts and hiraki-ashi attacks would dominate most forms. This is not the case at all, and I can further substantiate that proper use of Men is effective, not suicidal.

and holding it in front of you with both hands while rocking the weapon back and forth (ala American Gladiators). The third approach, while comical, is actually the best that one could hope to achieve with such a piece of crap. Note that it is the only method that allows one to defend with one end of the blade while attacking with the other end, and it is really the only method that allows one to defend himself at all.

It would hardly give very much force, though.

This appears to be the Klingon's preferred method of combat. Using the little protrusions from the main blade, they lock their bat'leths together and try and out-muscle their opponents, much like deer or moose during mating season. Note how crappy this attack actually is. My conclusion is that the bat'leth is only useful as a ceremonial weapon, and is a disaster in actual combat. This is demonstrated by the show.

Agreed.

[Eleas]

The only ways a human could wield this weapon are the overhand slam (virtually worthless in actual combat, as both Gowron and Qui-Gon have showed us)

This sounds wrong. I train with bokken once every week, and am proficient in Kendo techniques. Almost all of those techniques are delivered from above, something you claim to be worthless in actual combat. However, if that were true, sideways cuts and hiraki-ashi attacks would dominate most forms. This is not the case at all, and I can further substantiate that proper use of Men is effective, not suicidal.

and holding it in front of you with both hands while rocking the weapon back and forth (ala American Gladiators). The third approach, while comical, is actually the best that one could hope to achieve with such a piece of crap. Note that it is the only method that allows one to defend with one end of the blade while attacking with the other end, and it is really the only method that allows one to defend himself at all.

It would hardly give very much force, though.

This appears to be the Klingon's preferred method of combat. Using the little protrusions from the main blade, they lock their bat'leths together and try and out-muscle their opponents, much like deer or moose during mating season. Note how crappy this attack actually is. My conclusion is that the bat'leth is only useful as a ceremonial weapon, and is a disaster in actual combat. This is demonstrated by the show.

Agreed.

[Master of Ossus]

The only ways a human could wield this weapon are the overhand slam (virtually worthless in actual combat, as both Gowron and Qui-Gon have showed us)

This sounds wrong. I train with bokken once every week, and am proficient in Kendo techniques. Almost all of those techniques are delivered from above, something you claim to be worthless in actual combat. However, if that were true, sideways cuts and hiraki-ashi attacks would dominate most forms. This is not the case at all, and I can further substantiate that proper use of Men is effective, not suicidal.

It is okay with lighter weapons, but the heavy appearance of the bat'leth indicates that the only way a human could wield the thing is with the big, overhand swing that Gowron was about to take when Worf stabbed him (Qui-Gon took a similar wind up when he was stabbed by Darth Maul, in similar fashion). That generates a lot of power. The attacks across the body (from one shoulder to opposite hip), appear to be ineffective with the bat'leth, apparently because of its weight, but also potentially because these strikes become more difficult with the extra blade on the end where a handle would be with a sword. This is either evidence that the Klingon muscles and arm structure are different from what they are in humans, or that the Klingon weapon is really poorly designed. Incidentally, using any method where you put both hands on one side of a bat'leth, possibly to swing it overhand, or like a baseball bat, the weapon's exceptionally weak balance becomes self-evident. Much force must be generated to get the blades moving in the right direction, and this can leave novice warriors to overbalance or swing too hard and be unable to recover. While we have not seen serious problems like this in the show (likely because all Klingon warriors gain at least some proficiency with the weapon, but also because many of them are shot before they manage to complete their attacks), it is reasonable to assume that the bat'leth requires significant time to train with.

It would hardly give very much force, though.

I agree completely. That is the primary disadvantage of that attack. In fact, I don't see how a bipedal animal could gain much force using the bat'leth in such a manner.

Agreed.