Coal Mine Explosion in WV

[Alyrium Denryle]

but all the laws and safety equipment won't do any good if your employer uses the courts to get away with just co-operating on the face of things, and not really, while maintaining active dis-information campaigns about safety and other legal things. Don't ask, don't do anything or you and your family will starve. Welcome to the 19th century, still alive and well in the USA.

Indeed. I bet the bastard would pay his employees in scrip and keep them indentured in company towns if he could.

[Darth Yan]

Update. Obama himself is demanding an investigation, seeing as the final 4 deceased have been accounted for.

President Obama on Saturday urged a thorough investigation into a deadly explosion at a West Virginia coal mine that killed 29 people, hours after rescue efforts at the mine gave way to an operation to recover the dead.
"This has been America's worst mining disaster in forty years, and the toll on all West Virginians has been immeasurable, " Obama said of Monday's blast at the Upper Big Branch mine. "We cannot bring back the men we lost. What we can do, in their memory, is thoroughly investigate this tragedy and demand accountability."
Obama's statement came just hours after rescue efforts came to a grim end after crews found the bodies of the last four miners unaccounted for in the explosion. Twenty-five people were previously announced dead.
"My thoughts and prayers are with the families of all those who were lost in this tragic accident, and my gratitude goes out to the rescue teams who worked so tirelessly and heroically to search for the missing," Obama said in his statement.
Video: Bodies of West Virginia miners found Video: No miracle in West Virginia Video: Tears from 'a miner's child' Video: Mine fires 101
RELATED TOPICS
West Virginia
Mining Accidents and Disasters
Mine Safety and Health Administration
The death toll makes the West Virginia mining disaster the worst in the U.S. since 1972, when 91 miners were killed in a fire at the Sunshine Mine in Kellogg, Idaho.
Of the 29 dead in the West Virginia blast, the bodies of 22 remain inside the mine.
The cause of the blast is unknown, and state and federal officials have pledged a full investigation.
The explosion has prompted renewed questions about mine safety.
Obama said Saturday that "all Americans deserve to work in a place that is safe, and we must take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that all our miners are as safe as possible so that a disaster like this doesn't happen again."
Obama will meet next week with Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis and a Mine Safety and Health Administration official to hear their initial assessment of what caused the blast, along with their recommendations for steps the federal government should take to improve mine safety.
Richmond, Virginia-based Massey Energy Co., which owns the mine, said in a statement released Friday that it will conduct "extensive" reviews of the mine accident "to ensure that a similar incident doesn't happen again."
It said the mine has had less than one violation per day in inspections by the Mine Safety and Health Administration and added that that rate is "consistent with national averages."
Most of the blast victims were working in an area where long wall cutting was taking place. The technique uses a large grinder to extract the coal and creates large amounts of coal dust and methane gas, both of which are explosive.
West Virginia Gov. Joe Manchin said Saturday that even though it's not clear what caused the explosion, there needs to be a focus on better ventilation and on sensors to alert mine personnel when gas levels become dangerous.
"There was no way to protect them against this," he said. "You just have to prevent it and make sure it doesn'

Hopefully this will get some results. though i call horseshit in some areas. It's obvious the grinder was partly involved. Hopefully this won't end like John Grisham's the appeal and the douchebags responsible will fry. I might be wrong, but in APARTIED SOUTH AFRICA the government compensated the families of Black miners who died in a mine accident. It's pathetic that FUCKING RACISTS have more decency to their workers then these douchebags. That's just sad.

[aieeegrunt]

It's worse than that. Blue-collar guys will actually disable idiot-proofing safety measures on machines. There was a fatal accident at a casting company called Accurcast in Wallaceburg Ontario in the 1990s where a guy had disabled the lockout sensor which prevented the machine from operating when the access door was open. This allowed him to run the machine while the door was open, which made it more convenient to reach in and put in new pieces or remove finished ones.

Guess what kind of machine it was: that's right, a hydraulic press. And guess what happened to our unfortunate operator: he was halfway inside the machine when the "Cycle Start" button somehow got pushed, and he got squished.

It's bad enough when they fail to employ proper safety procedures, but when they actually disable built-in safety measures, you just have to shake your head in dismay.

This problem ended at the factory I work in when they adopted a no exceptions automatic firing policy for not locking machines out. If you are changing over/repairing or otherwise working on or inside a machine and you don't have the mandated two lockout tags in place, and locked, and the keys on your person, automatic firing. The lockouts are usually one for air and one for power. I also hit the E-stop button, which is overkill but I kind of need all my limbs.

The first week we had this policy three guys got fired.

Personally the biggest contributing factor to people bypassing or ignoring safety isn't the blue collar guys, it's the fucking weasel management pressuring you to cut corners in order to minimize downtime and maximize production.

The above no tolerance policy didn't come into effect because hurr hurr blue collar derp, it's because the law was changed so that the supervisor would also be fined or fired if one of his workers didn't follow proper lockout tagout procedures. THEN all of a sudden it became a priority to lock shit out, before it was actively discouraged by management because it would cost precious seconds.

Those assholes do this shit all the time, I have basically become the unofficial Trotsky of Tenneco because I always have to remind our management of what the fucking law actually is. Just a month ago they brought in some automated machinery so they could get rid of 6 blue collar positions; surprise surprise it makes fewer parts for more cost and a higher defect rate.

Managements solution was to post a notice telling us we couldn't leave until we hit production target for that shift, I Shit You Not. I went home, looked up the various laws, and ovetime after 8 hours in a day and 48 hours in a week is voluntary. So 4:15 comes along, we're still hours from hitting quota and you could have heard a pin drop when I cycle stopped my machine and walked out the door. Go ahead, fire me. I dare you. I double fucking dog dare you.

They've caved each time because I think they realize that growing up in a CAW town they can't fuck with me like they can with the small town retards I work with. I'm slowly but surely educating my fellow workers though, there is a satisfying attitude shift ocurring from Whipped Curr to Fuck You.

[LadyTevar]

Chunks of coal, for the lives taken.

[Darth Wong]

Personally the biggest contributing factor to people bypassing or ignoring safety isn't the blue collar guys, it's the fucking weasel management pressuring you to cut corners in order to minimize downtime and maximize production.

Obviously, managers can put pressure on employees to increase production; we've all seen that. But the reason blue-collar employees don't push back too hard is because they don't take the safety concerns all that seriously.

The above no tolerance policy didn't come into effect because hurr hurr blue collar derp, it's because the law was changed so that the supervisor would also be fined or fired if one of his workers didn't follow proper lockout tagout procedures. THEN all of a sudden it became a priority to lock shit out, before it was actively discouraged by management because it would cost precious seconds.

No, it's blue-collar stupidity. Yes, managers can be unreasonable, but that doesn't change the fact that blue-collar employees tend to be blase about safety. I used to work at Hydro where the managers did not act like this, and in fact employees were well-treated to the point of coddling. In such an environment, blue-collar employees still need to be pushed in order to increase compliance with safety regulations. In an environment with shitty managers you can pretend the problem is all management, but in general management is just pushing for higher output, not actually telling employees to disregard safety rules. It's the employees themselves who decide that bypassing safety rules is a good way to get those numbers up.

Once more: I have been laughed at by fellow employees for following procedure. So you can try to dismiss comments about blue-collar culture by dismissing them as "hurf-hurf" classism, but that doesn't make the problem go away.

[Serafina]

See, that's why the company should ultimately be accountable and actually feel it - because then the mangagers will not like it when safety rules are disregarded and accidents happen.
And they will tell their employees that this is important - so even the stupid people will try to follow them.
Especially if you get fired for cutting on safety.

Anecdotal example:
A member of my family used to work at a stell mill. His foreman was regulary disregarding certain safety rules. He told a manager that the foreman was doing that, and the foreman was promplty without a job, even tough his cutting on safety had increased productivity by (IIRC) about 10% - this included disregarding stuff like "don't use this passageway when we are processing molten metal there" and "always have someone checking the instruments when you do X".
Note that no accidents had actually happened - and when other workers started to harras that familiy member (because there was a reward based on productivity, which they lost) the managment actuall intervened and paid (small) security bonusses.

[aieeegrunt]

Personally the biggest contributing factor to people bypassing or ignoring safety isn't the blue collar guys, it's the fucking weasel management pressuring you to cut corners in order to minimize downtime and maximize production.

Obviously, managers can put pressure on employees to increase production; we've all seen that. But the reason blue-collar employees don't push back too hard is because they don't take the safety concerns all that seriously.

Every time I've seen somebody disregard lockout tagout it's been either sheer laziness or a desire to butter up a boss by showing how hardcore they are about production. I've never seen somebody do it to be macho or because they were too stupid to realize what happens if something goes wrong, if that is your claim this is definetly your own bias which really isn't hard to see.

The above no tolerance policy didn't come into effect because hurr hurr blue collar derp, it's because the law was changed so that the supervisor would also be fined or fired if one of his workers didn't follow proper lockout tagout procedures. THEN all of a sudden it became a priority to lock shit out, before it was actively discouraged by management because it would cost precious seconds.

No, it's blue-collar stupidity. Yes, managers can be unreasonable, but that doesn't change the fact that blue-collar employees tend to be blase about safety. I used to work at Hydro where the managers did not act like this, and in fact employees were well-treated to the point of coddling. In such an environment, blue-collar employees still need to be pushed in order to increase compliance with safety regulations. In an environment with shitty managers you can pretend the problem is all management, but in general management is just pushing for higher output, not actually telling employees to disregard safety rules. It's the employees themselves who decide that bypassing safety rules is a good way to get those numbers up.

Once more: I have been laughed at by fellow employees for following procedure. So you can try to dismiss comments about blue-collar culture by dismissing them as "hurf-hurf" classism, but that doesn't make the problem go away.

I grew up in Windsor, a factory town if every there was one. I worked in various factory setting while going to school getting my B.A.Sc., then worked in the white collar world for a number of years for software companies as both a coder and a manager, then came full circle working in a factory again because I wanted to move to the Bruce peninsula, and that was the best paying best benefit job I could land up here. A lot of my family members back in Windsor work or worked for the automotive industry for much the same reason; good wage, good benefit, good pension verses white collar McJob cube slave. As long as we are playing the bullshit anectodotal evidence game, I'm pretty sure my experience in this area outweighs yours by an order of magnitude at least, having actually worked on the shop floor, grown up around people doing the same, etc. etc. as opposed to walking past the break room at Ontario Hydro or where ever it is you picked up this silly Homer Simpson esque caricature you are painting (and this isn't the first time I've seen you do it).

While we are at it, I've worked pretty much the same number of years in both collar worlds, and I'd say the average IQ of the people I've met in the white collar world wasn't any higher, since lets face it a vast majority of these people either shuffle paper or stare at a screen. I've been there, I've seen it. You'll have a small percentage of capable people who do 90% of the work, and then a whole cube farm of useless.

Where I work one incapable person can screw up the whole line in a matter of minutes, it's a pretty brutal weeding out process. Anybody without basic problem solving and trouble shooting skills, a high manual dexterity and quick on their feet won't last. One schaudenfreude element of this economic downturn has been the large number of laid off white collar types who try to temp here. You try and help them, I mean the situation sucks, and frankly the faster they learn and do the job better the less extra work I have to do covering for them but they never last the 90 days. Most of them you can't trust to insert part hit button, and God Forbid the machine stops and they have to figure out why. The concept of a light curtain is a struggle for many of them.

But I don't even know why I'm bothering, you seem to have this caricature in your head and I doubt you'll change it. I do look forward to the creative invective you will most likely be sending my way since I'm just a dumb blue collar retard in your eyes.

[Darth Wong]

Every time I've seen somebody disregard lockout tagout it's been either sheer laziness or a desire to butter up a boss by showing how hardcore they are about production. I've never seen somebody do it to be macho or because they were too stupid to realize what happens if something goes wrong, if that is your claim this is definetly your own bias which really isn't hard to see.

Ahhh, so they're risking their safety to either "butter up a boss" or be "lazy", but of course, neither of these decision-making processes implies the stupidity I was talking about, right?

Therefore, you can just dismiss everything I say based on your assumption of my prejudice, eh? Even though you effectively just confirmed precisely what I've been saying? All you've demonstrated here is your capacity for spin-doctoring.

I grew up in Windsor, a factory town if every there was one. I worked in various factory setting while going to school getting my B.A.Sc., then worked in the white collar world for a number of years for software companies as both a coder and a manager, then came full circle working in a factory again because I wanted to move to the Bruce peninsula, and that was the best paying best benefit job I could land up here.

Ooooh. And I spent ten years working in the plastics industry, where the engineers must spend a significant portion of each and every day on the floor directly monitoring the progress of each job. So don't expect to impress me with your vague "I dabbled while I was in school, then eventually came back to work in a factory again later for a while" muttering.

A lot of my family members back in Windsor work or worked for the automotive industry for much the same reason; good wage, good benefit, good pension verses white collar McJob cube slave. As long as we are playing the bullshit anectodotal evidence game, I'm pretty sure my experience in this area outweighs yours by an order of magnitude at least, having actually worked on the shop floor, grown up around people doing the same, etc. etc. as opposed to walking past the break room at Ontario Hydro or where ever it is you picked up this silly Homer Simpson esque caricature you are painting (and this isn't the first time I've seen you do it).

Your experience doesn't sound like much of anything to me, although I do detect a distinct stench of inflation.

While we are at it, I've worked pretty much the same number of years in both collar worlds, and I'd say the average IQ of the people I've met in the white collar world wasn't any higher, since lets face it a vast majority of these people either shuffle paper or stare at a screen. I've been there, I've seen it. You'll have a small percentage of capable people who do 90% of the work, and then a whole cube farm of useless.

Funny how you need to be able to do advanced calculus just to make it to third year in engineering, while you probably couldn't make a blue-collar worker learn calculus at the barrel of a gun. But of course, you're probably talking about anyone who happens to be in an office, including secretaries, middle managers, etc. As if that's what I was talking about. Anyone who honestly can't see the difference in intellect between a highly trained professional and a typical blue-collar drone worker is either lying to himself or is so stupid that he honestly can't recognize it.

Where I work one incapable person can screw up the whole line in a matter of minutes, it's a pretty brutal weeding out process. Anybody without basic problem solving and trouble shooting skills, a high manual dexterity and quick on their feet won't last. One schaudenfreude element of this economic downturn has been the large number of laid off white collar types who try to temp here. You try and help them, I mean the situation sucks, and frankly the faster they learn and do the job better the less extra work I have to do covering for them but they never last the 90 days. Most of them you can't trust to insert part hit button, and God Forbid the machine stops and they have to figure out why. The concept of a light curtain is a struggle for many of them.

But I don't even know why I'm bothering, you seem to have this caricature in your head and I doubt you'll change it. I do look forward to the creative invective you will most likely be sending my way since I'm just a dumb blue collar retard in your eyes.

Do you have anything to say other than this mindless Power To The Proletariat bullshit of yours? When I did work at Hydro, I was actually in the fucking HEALTH AND SAFETY division, moron. I am not just speaking from sketchy personal anecdotes: the safety policy had to come from the top down, because it never did come from the bottom up, no matter what horseshit you care to spread. Injuries and fatalities did not stop until a manager embarked on a campaign to improve the situation.

[Lonestar]

Every time I've seen somebody disregard lockout tagout it's been either sheer laziness or a desire to butter up a boss by showing how hardcore they are about production. I've never seen somebody do it to be macho or because they were too stupid to realize what happens if something goes wrong, if that is your claim this is definetly your own bias which really isn't hard to see.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Sorry for jumping in, but I suspect that this is not at all unusual. When I was in the navy I knew people, people who worked in "smart" rates like Firecontrol, Sonar Techs, etc. who would have gladly bypassed tagout proceeds if they could, just from sheer laziness(I would describe that as a "stupid act", by the way) but couldn't because the USN PM system is so locked down it's (almost)impossible to gundeck. Somehow, someway, I suspect that your factory workers are not great deal smarter than the technicians I worked with.

[Hillary]

Just my few penneth-worth.

My father worked in a factory all his working life (print finishing if you must know) and eventually set up his own small firm. It was ALWAYS a great struggle for my mother to get him to implement basic H&S rules into the workplace and nigh on impossible to get his staff to follow them. One of the most basic was a muffler on the folding plates (which crack the paper extremely loudly at the rate of thousands of times an hour). Even when he finally had them installed, the workers had to be forced to shut them so they worked effectively. This was ENTIRELY for their benefit and had no effect whatsoever on productivity, yet the workers still had to be forced to use them.

Another, more obvious example you can see every time you walk past a construction site - the copious signs stressing that a hard hat must been worn on site, usually with the proviso that no hard hat = no job. Again, there is no getting away from the implication that workers have to be forced to comply with H&S regs.