Huron Blackheart vs Abaddon the Despoiler

[Sidewinder]

Every WH40K fan jokes about Ezekyle Abaddon- alias "Abaddon the Despoiler," "Abaddon the Sore Loser," "FAILbaddon the Despoiler," etc.- for failing to conquer the Imperium despite 13 consecutive Black Crusades. Nonetheless, the Codex describes Abaddon as the only being capable of uniting ALL of the Chaos Legions towards a single purpose, and therefore the only being capable of leading a Black Crusade.

So what happens if the Chaos Space Marines decide "Enough! Let's ditch that loser and choose a Warmaster who can actually lead us to victory!" Lufgt Huron- alias "Huron Blackheart," "Tyrant of Badab,"- steps up and, after killing all his rivals, challenges the Master of the Black Legion for leadership of the forces of Chaos Undivided. The Chaos gods sanction this challenge because they're desperate to get the Emperor (feel free to guess why).

The challenge will be decided via single combat. Assume the Chaos gods won't intervene directly, and that Marines from the Red Corsairs, Black Legion, and other Legions and Chapters aren't supposed to intervene (this probably won't stop them from trying, as occurred during the Skull Harvest).

Huron and Abaddon will fight with their standard war gear.

Huron has power armor, the Tyrant's Claw (lightning claw w/ integral heavy flamer), power axe, and Hamadrya (familiar that allows Blackheart to use the psychic power "warptime"), frag and krak grenades.

Abaddon has Tactical Dreadnought armor, Drach'nyen (daemon sword), the Talon of Horus (lightning claw w/ integral storm bolter).

[Lonestar]

There were other Black Crusades besides the one led by Abbadon, and no one else has gotten as far as Abaddon. Presumably Abaddon has the backing of the Daemon-Primarchs, so this whole exercise is pretty silly.

Also, Abaddon for the win.

[Kuroji]

I must be mistaken, but I was under the impression that all of the Black Crusades thus far (aside from the first, led by Horus) were led by Abaddon...

Of course he would be a bit more successful if he had arms.

[Ford Prefect]

Talking about one's ability to lead a huge invasion made up of dozens of bickering armies is totally irrelevant. This is single combat between two guys. One is Abaddon the Despoiler and the other one isn't. Abaddon's personal combat ability is totally ludicrous, what with him carrying Drach'nyen around, a weapon which on the high end could probably destroy the Empire State Building in one go, given its performance during the assault on the Citadel of the Kromarch (or however you spell their name).

[open_sketchbook]

I must be mistaken, but I was under the impression that all of the Black Crusades thus far (aside from the first, led by Horus) were led by Abaddon...

Of course he would be a bit more successful if he had arms.

Goddamn it, I came in here to say that.

Yes, this fight goes to Abaddon the Despoilulator hands down. He walks around in Terminator armour with the full backing of all the Choas Gods, the bigass sword mentioned above, ten thousand years experience in stomping stuff flat, and the fact that he may or may not actually be a straight-up clone of Horus himself. By comparison, Huron is a two-bit renegade Space Marine packing inferior weapons, whose only real advantage is a familiar giving him some basic psychic powers. Abaddon is the 40k version of Darth Vader; he flew by Huron so fast on the badass scale he blueshifted.

[Serafina]

That's not even a fight - Drach'nyen wins that fight for Abbadon with ludicrous ease.

That being said, Abbadon is not really a bad strategist or anything, and Huron is not better.
After all, Abaddon is more or less up against the whole IoM and the Eye of Terror is surrounded by Fortress worlds.
And even under those conditions, he managed to steal/destroy the Blackstone Fortresses, make a serious dent into the Cadia system and is still alive. The mere fact that the still has the favour of all four chaos gods is more than enough to proove that he is quite good at his job.

[Raxmei]

Right, seriously? Abaddon's a combat monster. He's surely had to duel a dozen scrubs like Huron just to get where he is. As far as his abilities as a leader go it's pretty impressive that he's gotten as far as he has. The Chaos legions were defeated and broken in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. They didn't go to the Eye for fun, they were fleeing before the victorious armies of the Imperium. Their armies were weak and beaten and they lost what support base they had when they were driven from their worlds and into the Eye. Things largely got worse from there as the survivors fragmented into feuding warbands. Meanwhile the Imperium reclaimed their lost territory and fortified the area. Realistically, I don't think the Chaos legions have any chance at destroying the Imperium or even of building a lasting empire for themselves. The best they can hope for is to wreck as much of the Imperium as they can out of spite, and to get even that done you need to find someone who still has some organizational skills in a group that worships the primal force of disorder.

[Juubi Karakuchi]

Abaddon, easily.

Some of the Horus Heresy novels have gone into what the Primarchs actually are. Going on the descriptions in Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons, the Primarchs aren't just genetically engineered superhumans. They appear to be sapient warp entities inhabiting human bodies, somewhat like the Emperor himself.
Spoiler

In A Thousand Sons, Magnus the Red doesn't go over to chaos, but rather sheds his physical body while transporting his followers to the Planet of Sorcerors. His essential nature is like a daemon prince, but not actually one.

It's been part of Abaddon's backstory for as long as I can remember that Abaddon may be the clone-son of Horus. Assuming it is true, then he cannot literally be a Primarch. Indeed, their unusual nature explains why Fabius Bile had such trouble cloning Horus. He might be a clone in the sense that he was made from the DNA of Horus' physical body. Even so, that would make him a being of tremendous potency.

Even without all this, he's lived longer than Huron, and not only survived but actually prospered in an enviroment incomparably harsher than what Huron was used to.

[Serafina]

Heck, Abaddon was able to fend off an Officio Assassinorum Execution Force - a team of about half a dozen Temple Assassins.

So yeah, beating that guy in personal combat is pretty much not doable unless you are a Primarch, C'tan or someone similar.

[Drone]

Heck, Abaddon was able to fend off an Officio Assassinorum Execution Force - a team of about half a dozen Temple Assassins.

So yeah, beating that guy in personal combat is pretty much not doable unless you are a Primarch, C'tan or someone similar.

I think how amazingly skilled the assassins are depends on how badass they need someone to look. I mean the Emperor only sent one assassin to kill Konrad Curze, and that was enough, admittedly he let himself be killed, but to have only sent one must've meant the Emperor thought that was enough for the job.

[Sidewinder]

Heck, Abaddon was able to fend off an Officio Assassinorum Execution Force - a team of about half a dozen Temple Assassins.

So yeah, beating that guy in personal combat is pretty much not doable unless you are a Primarch, C'tan or someone similar.

I think how amazingly skilled the assassins are depends on how badass they need someone to look. I mean the Emperor only sent one assassin to kill Konrad Curze, and that was enough, admittedly he let himself be killed, but to have only sent one must've meant the Emperor thought that was enough for the job.

Considering Curze was a suicidal nut who specifically ordered the Night Lords not to interfere, I doubt killing him was an impressive accomplishment on M'Shen's part.

M'Shen's desperate fight against Talos, on the other hand, IS impressive. During that, she demonstrated the strength of will to fight on after Soul Hunter spat acid into her eyes, melting them from their sockets, and to fight effectively despite this disability. The assassin fought on after Talos screamed, a sonic attack that would paralyze as well as deafen a normal human, as the Night Lords attack on the Imperial warship demonstrated- and she was STILL able to pinpoint Soul Hunter's location!

[andrewgpaul]

OK, Sidewinder, did the Inquisition sanction your posts? If that's an attempt at hiding spoilers, it's really annoying.

[Serafina]

You know that we have Spoiler

And they actually hide what you write

right?
And using them is really not that difficult.

[Lord Revan]

Aren't Abaddon's failures more due being unable to keep his forces from fighting with each other, then from tactical or strategic failures and also isn't he noted to pretty much the only one able to command the obidience of all the traitor legions (at least for a short while) who's still alive (other being Horus).

also I don't know how canon it is but Spoiler

in Dawn of War 2 Eliphas was down right terrified at meeting Abaddon after his failure (loyalist ending at least), where as in DOW:Dark Crusade he opened fire on the daemon prince who was confronting him about his defeat

that would suggest that Abaddon isn't a push over in 1 on 1 fight.

[Imperial Overlord]

You didn't read any of the above posts did you Revan? Anyway, being afraid of facing Abaddon after failing has little to do with his immense prowess in personal combat (he's not short of followers to dish out any beatings he doesn't want to deliver personally) and more to do with his massive intolerance for failure and his lack of temper control. Abaddon's been known to have his flag ship open fire on vessels in his own fleet that have failed him.

[white_rabbit]

So yeah, beating that guy in personal combat is pretty much not doable unless you are a Primarch, C'tan or someone similar.

Eldrad almost skewered him with a pointy stick at one point you know.

He's tremendously capable, and is better equipped and probably just better than Huron, but he's not a guy you need a Primarch or C'tan to beat.

Goddamn it, I came in here to say that.

You'd be as wrong as he was. At various points, Abaddon has led 13 Black Crusades, he's led some of the 13, there have been more than 13 and he's led just those 13 etc.

Theres even a partial list in Liber Chaotica, detailing a few guys who've led one of the 13, including Doombreed and so forth.

The mere fact that the still has the favour of all four chaos gods is more than enough to proove that he is quite good at his job.

Or that they are fucking around, or asleep on the job. Lets not forget, these are Chaos Gods. Capricious, totally insane by our standards, and prone to bizarre decisions in every aspect of their existence.

They might just think its really funny to watch him bounce off the Imperium for thousands of years. Or as the man himself implies vaguely in Soul Hunter he's got a long term plan.

[Kuroji]

Or it is entirely possible that they can stir up the pot more, without destroying the pot outright, by sending Abaddon forth and ensuring that things go just as planned for Chaos to garner more power.

Without the Imperium, after all, humanity would turn on itself and end up as millions of isolated worlds, or pocket empires, rather than the massive galaxy-spanning empire that it is now. Less humans means less power for Chaos, overall. Less people to fight over is a bad thing for them.