Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

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Rate Victory of the Daleks

5 - Every planet within that mighty swirl must become a dalek world. Daleks conquer and destroy!
12
19%
4 - We are entombed but we live on, this is only the beginning!
20
32%
3 - We will have our power! We will have our power!
22
35%
2 - The Daleks shall become Lords of Time!
5
8%
1 - Without Davros, we have no future!
4
6%
 
Total votes: 63

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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Gramzamber »

I rather dislike the new Daleks, they look far too toy like. Maybe I'm just attached to regular Time War Daleks.
Then they all seem to have that deeper Dalek Emperor style voice, which is just wrong. And what the hell is it with the colourscheme? When they did the big reveal I thought they were going to shout "GO GO DALEK RANGERS!".

Also I know RAF pilots were a hardy lot but they seemed uncomfortably casual about flying up into space and pew pewing a flying saucer.

Finally, is every episode going to end with a crack in space reveal? It's starting to get old. Now with the return of the Daleks I'm thinking this whole crack business is Time Lord Escape Plan #2.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Bedlam »

I'd prefer if the cracks in the universe were more like the Bad Wolf links in the first series, each episode would have one in but it wouldn't be highlited you'd have to keep an eye out for them, of there might be one on the outside of Star Ship UK but it would only appear during a panning shot for a few seconds while we were seeing what the space whale was doing.

My personal theory is that the cracks were caused by the crashing tardis at the beginning of the series and this series is actually set in a different universe to the previous ones. The tardis broke through into another universe while it was crashing and the doctor didn't notice. The doctor might meet up with his this universe version later in the series and / or only one of the two universes can exist due to the cracks which are causing the two universes to murge together, it might make an interesting dilemma as they seem to be setting up a dilema for most of the episodes so far which has the doctor choosing between the deaths of two groups i.e. the whale or the humans and earth or another part of the universe.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Gramzamber »

Bedlam wrote:I'd prefer if the cracks in the universe were more like the Bad Wolf links in the first series, each episode would have one in but it wouldn't be highlited you'd have to keep an eye out for them, of there might be one on the outside of Star Ship UK but it would only appear during a panning shot for a few seconds while we were seeing what the space whale was doing.

My personal theory is that the cracks were caused by the crashing tardis at the beginning of the series and this series is actually set in a different universe to the previous ones. The tardis broke through into another universe while it was crashing and the doctor didn't notice. The doctor might meet up with his this universe version later in the series and / or only one of the two universes can exist due to the cracks which are causing the two universes to murge together, it might make an interesting dilemma as they seem to be setting up a dilema for most of the episodes so far which has the doctor choosing between the deaths of two groups i.e. the whale or the humans and earth or another part of the universe.
A parallel universe would neatly explain why Amy doesn't remember the Dalek invasion and the "worlds in the sky" without resorting to some sort of silly mass-amnesia thing.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by xerex »

NecronLord wrote: How Amy has forgotten all the RTD invasions of Earth is interesting.
Gramzamber wrote:
A parallel universe would neatly explain why Amy doesn't remember the Dalek invasion and the "worlds in the sky" without resorting to some sort of silly mass-amnesia thing.
or a mundane answer could be Amy being taken by this Doctor before the events of "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End".

they havent really established when Amy is from.

of course it WONT be that simple.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Teebs »

xerex wrote:or a mundane answer could be Amy being taken by this Doctor before the events of "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End".

they havent really established when Amy is from.

of course it WONT be that simple.
The Doctor was using an iphone in the first episode. That puts a pretty definite earliest possible date on things.

Edit: If I remember correctly an iphone he took off someone else, so not one that had time traveled with him.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by TC Pilot »

I don't know why everyone's surprised that Amy didn't remember the Daleks conquering/invading the Earth twice in the span of two years. No one knew what they were in "Dalek" either, and that took place in 2012. So far as I'm concerned, it's an attempt at a massive retcon.

I will echo the sentiment that it seemed like a two-parter squashed into one episode.

"Hey, robot guy! Let's go get those Daleks!"
"Ok! I'll start working on something!" *ten seconds later*
"Spitfires in outer space!"

Or that female radio operator? I assumed the final spitfire pilot was her love interest and got killed off-screen. There was basically no reason for it, unless a lot of extra stuff had been cut out.

Personally, I would have preferred the Doctor bringing the android along with him for an episode or two. Oh yeah, and those new Dalek suits are hideous. Still better than "Daleks in Manhatten," though.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Darth Nostril »

Gramzamber wrote:Finally, is every episode going to end with a crack in space reveal? It's starting to get old.
How is it getting old when it's only the third fucking episode?

Typical of an irrelevant whiney little cunt.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Can someone tell me how a little thing the size of an Egg is able to spit out FIVE production line full made bran new Daleks?
Also more to the point, its amazing how a ship "Ruing on Empty" can still harness the power required for Time DIlation.
And you are REALLY going to tell us the Doctor is letting a WALKING BOMB loose in WWII Earth? an Android with Future Dalek knowledge? The Doctor went out of his way to take the tech form the Spitfirers, but he doesn't take with him the person who built them? This goes back to one of my big beefs with the new series, that being the Doctor has one and ONLY one companion. How cool would it be to have the Professor along? Even if it was just for a single episode where they drop him off at some point in the future? Or maybe the Doctor could have, you know, Dismantled his internal Bomb? or erased his Dalek Tech memories?

Over all it was a "Fun" episode but had moment after eye rolling moment.
Oh yeah.
Darth Nostril wrote:
Gramzamber wrote:Finally, is every episode going to end with a crack in space reveal? It's starting to get old.
How is it getting old when it's only the third fucking episode?

Typical of an irrelevant whiney little cunt.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by TC Pilot »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Can someone tell me how a little thing the size of an Egg is able to spit out FIVE production line full made bran new Daleks?
The same way the Cult of Skaro rigged 1930's tech into a full-blown Dalek laboratory....SCIENCE! :P
Also more to the point, its amazing how a ship "Ruing on Empty" can still harness the power required for Time DIlation.
Particularly when the older Daleks diverted all power into creating the new ones.
And you are REALLY going to tell us the Doctor is letting a WALKING BOMB loose in WWII Earth?
I'm pretty sure it was deactivated with that whole "you're human now" bit.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by mr friendly guy »

Average only.

The new daleks look retro and modern at the same time. I not sure how else to describe it, but they remind me of the Daleks from the non canon Peter Cushing movies. Combined that with nice colours which reminds me of modern cars just come off the production line and there you have it. According to wiki
The casing of each of the five Daleks seen is a different colour; red, orange, blue, white and yellow. The white Dalek identifies itself as the 'Supreme' and states that the others represent different elements of Dalek society: Drone, Scientist, Strategist and Eternal. In the programme Doctor Who Confidential, Doctor Who Executive Producer Steven Moffat states that the rôle of the 'Eternal' Dalek had yet to be decided
I am going to agree with others that the episode itself felt a bit rushed here. I think this episode served more to introduce the new daleks, and raise the mystery of why Amy doesn't remember the Dalek invasions.

Few other thoughts

Nice of the Daleks to bluff the Doctor. He couldn't stay and try and keep the Dalek shield suppressed at the same time as deactivating the bomb, so he had to make his choice.

I am not sure how powerful these daleks are. TW era daleks presumably must have made some advances to continue fighting the Time Lords for centuries. Each individual TW dalek might be weaker than "New paradigm daleks" simply because the newer ones are also bigger, not just in height but they are "fat" as well, but in a not so bad way, but the TW era daleks must have made some technological advances in that time, which these guys most likely won't know about, unless the dead Daleks gave them the info in like a few seconds of conversation. The Doctor is clearly afraid they will be more powerful than ever, but I see it mainly because the TL aren't around to fight them.

So far only I only considered the first episode above average. Although it was most probably better than some of RTDs episodes.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Bounty »

I liked it. It did seem odd that the first twenty minutes consisted mostly of padding (exactly how many times can the Doctor and Churchill have that "they are evil" - "they're our only hope" convo before they themselves get bored with it?) and the last twenty minutes felt compressed. On the upside, I really enjoyed the Spitfires IN SPAAACE and the fact that not only did the Daleks double-cross the Doctor, he actually expected them to do so.

Still... yet again a few lone Daleks escape certain death, yet again the Doctor thinks he can wipe them out forever, and yet again I fail to see why anyone would think this would have any sort of impact. If they'd just stuck with the Doctor wanting to stop these Daleks rather than imply they were really, really the last of their kind, the episode would have been better for it. let's hope this finally undoes the idea of the Daleks being on the brink of extinction.

Amy not remembering the Dalek invasion seems more a function of someone undoing it and changing the timeline than the alternate universe idea.I don't buy the cracks being caused by the Tardis - after all, Amy was scared of the crack for some time before the Doctor crashed into her shed.

New Daleks... well, the top stores'll be happy. The retro look is neat, I suppose, though I don't see why a full redesign was needed when they could have just repainted the existed TW design.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Ilya Muromets »

I started out with conflicting feelings on this episode. For one, I am a shameless Dalek fanboy. However, I had become sick of the repeated Daleks-gone-forever-except-they're-back cycle ever since season 2 of the new series, so I was really not looking forward to having them come back.

But then, this episode was just absolute cheesy fun, and I actually kinda like the "new paradigm" Dalek designs. They kinda look like the movie Daleks, and I always liked those colorful designs.

Anyway, the episode didn't feel too rushed for me. I liked the fast pace, and all the kitsch-y elements. Daleks in WW2? Fighting Nazis? Android scientist dupe? Spitfires in space fighting a flying saucer (in a scene that seemed like a Star Wars homage at times)? I love cheesy when done for the sake of fun, and this episode had me grinning like a loon.

Sure, story-telling and plot wise, it's really clunky in places. Winston Churchill, in particular, also felt like a Churchill-quote chatbot added there just to go "Yes, Doctor. No, Doctor. We'll must win, Doctor!" You could've dropped him altogether and it wouldn't have affected things in anyway other than having nothing for people to go "Hey, look, actor trying to imitate Churchill" anymore. Plus, of course, having yet another annoying, mostly unexplained Deus Ex Machina just to bring back the Daleks.

Still, I'm willing to forgive a lot if somethings fun, and I had fun. I give it a 4/5.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Can someone tell me how a little thing the size of an Egg is able to spit out FIVE production line full made bran new Daleks?
LOL just like how a stupid blue box has a library, a swimming pool, and a whole bunch of retro gizmos and shit inside it along with some dorky future man and a hot firecrotched redhead chick, rite? :P

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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Shroom Man 777 wrote: a hot firecrotched redhead chick
Why do I get the feeling there are going to be many, man fanfics about young Amy Pond? And that many of them won't be child-friendly?

Anyway, Storytelling wasn't great but it was FUN, and as far as I really care for a story with Daleks, that's all that matters
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by El Moose Monstero »

Maybe the new daleks can be nBSG luddite daleks? Casting off the advances of the Time War daleks, presumably as unclean technology being the product of Davros' machinations, hence why the wizard progenitor wouldn't recognise the TW daleks, so they've gone back to basics with big clunky technology! We haven't seen the new ones climb any stairs yet, after all.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by mr friendly guy »

El Moose Monstero wrote:Maybe the new daleks can be nBSG luddite daleks? Casting off the advances of the Time War daleks, presumably as unclean technology being the product of Davros' machinations, hence why the wizard progenitor wouldn't recognise the TW daleks, so they've gone back to basics with big clunky technology! We haven't seen the new ones climb any stairs yet, after all.
Dude, the old ones can climb stairs. However they weren't as agile as the new ones.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by NecronLord »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Can someone tell me how a little thing the size of an Egg is able to spit out FIVE production line full made bran new Daleks?
Because that thing was a factory unit, and the progenitor only contained DNA? They repeatedly said "Deee-Ennn-Ayyy!" after all? They had to channel all their reserve power to the Progenitor to make five new daleks. Presumably it can make more with more power.
Also more to the point, its amazing how a ship "Ruing on Empty" can still harness the power required for Time DIlation.
Doctor Who Time Travel doesn't seem to require much power. Renegade dalek taskforces could be dispatched with hand-held time travel devices. Captain Jack has an even smaller Vortex manipulator. In an old series episode it could even be done primarily with mirrors.
And you are REALLY going to tell us the Doctor is letting a WALKING BOMB loose in WWII Earth? an Android with Future Dalek knowledge? The Doctor went out of his way to take the tech form the Spitfirers, but he doesn't take with him the person who built them? This goes back to one of my big beefs with the new series, that being the Doctor has one and ONLY one companion. How cool would it be to have the Professor along?
Yes.
Even if it was just for a single episode where they drop him off at some point in the future? Or maybe the Doctor could have, you know, Dismantled his internal Bomb? or erased his Dalek Tech memories?
The bomb was basically de-activated anyway, it seemed. And Dismantling it would be killing him, the same device was his power source.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Gramzamber »

Darth Nostril wrote:
Gramzamber wrote:Finally, is every episode going to end with a crack in space reveal? It's starting to get old.
How is it getting old when it's only the third fucking episode?

Typical of an irrelevant whiney little cunt.
And until when shall I hold my opinion on this to foster your approval? The 5th episode? The 8th? Apparently anything is "whiney" these days to self-entitled armchair dictators.
It only needed to be done ONCE at the end of the last episode if they needed to do it at all. From the 3rd episode onward it's just repetition.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by PREDATOR490 »

1

Sorry, this was just a fucking mess.

It started alright and I figured it was setting up to do something EXTREMELY new.

Daleks go back in time, change the history of Earth by HELPING. Thus making the DOCTOR the villian in trying to antagonize them and completely rewriting the future events with the Daleks. Of course, the future time jump would come and WW2 plays out and so forth but the next time we go to the future we find Earth has not been invaded by the Daleks / Cybermen etc. because the entire history has been changed. Maybe even have Britain use the technology to win the war against Germany and thus change WW2's outcome. Resulting in a complete wipe of the entire Doctor Who Earth and perhaps the entire Verse so they can bring the Daleks back in full, ditch the old companions and start fresh in the new series.

Instead of that it just falls into stupidity by compressing what could easily be a two parter into a single episode while trying to have the cake of keeping Earth history the same while eating it by having the Daleks somehow return.

Incidentally, those 'super' Daleks made me cringe at the colour arrangement. Are they meant to look like Power Rangers ?
I liked the initial Olive green daleks, lose the webbing and that would work for a new look. Throw in the natural Black for leaders but the current colours are going to be silly for future scenes.
Incidentally, have they dropped the ability for Daleks to swivel their mid section ?

The scene with the Jammy Dodger - I realise its trying to be funny but for fuck sake ?
Even assuming the Doctor is so fucking retarded he couldnt have just brought out his Sonic Screwdriver and claimed IT was the remote detonator AND prevented the Daleks from calling the bluff as easily, these fuckers were serving as butlers and they never saw a Jammy Dodger before ?

The reset at the end was a bit stupid, one would have thought they could bring Torchwood in to quietly stockpile all the tech AND recruit the android. Instead, the Doctor just arbitarily decides to make them to get rid of it. Its not like Earth is going to potentially encounter the Daleks again and having defences would be smart, RIGHT ?

Its not like a walking bomb that can apparantly destroy the planet is being allowed to go free, I'm sure that couldnt backfire if some hostile power wanted to tear him apart or figured out how to reactivate the bomb.

As for Amy Pond.
Back to wearing a short skirt and 'romantic intrest in Doctor' theme oh so casually hinted at. Predictable.
Although, I like Amy Pond so I'm not going to complain too much at the over indulgent fan service she is getting.


Next week...

River...
Weeping Angels...

Now that we have the initial intro scenes done and the mandatory resurection of the Daleks. HOPEFULLY this will be better on pacing and story but I'm woefully resigned to the notion its going to be a repeat performance of Blink + Silence in the Libarary. Substitue Weeping Angels for Nash na rada thingies and pad it out with the Doctor / River relationship.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Gramzamber »

PREDATOR490 wrote:
Incidentally, those 'super' Daleks made me cringe at the colour arrangement. Are they meant to look like Power Rangers ?
It seems it's some kind of homage to the Peter Cushing movie Daleks but yeah, I thought the same thing.
The scene with the Jammy Dodger - I realise its trying to be funny but for fuck sake ?
Even assuming the Doctor is so fucking retarded he couldnt have just brought out his Sonic Screwdriver and claimed IT was the remote detonator AND prevented the Daleks from calling the bluff as easily, these fuckers were serving as butlers and they never saw a Jammy Dodger before ?
Well I did like how the new Daleks immediately saw through that retarded ruse.
Then again it implies that Time War Daleks, arch-nemesis of the most powerful species of all time and space, need to improve themselves in order to not be fooled by a Jammy Dodger.

Edit: As an aside, it occurs to me that if Churchill were half as sharp as he claimed to be, he would've ordered Danny Boy to land at a secret location and claim that the Daleks blew him up/he burned up in re-entry/whatever and have at least some super-advanced tech already retrofitted to work with a Spitfire.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by PREDATOR490 »

I dont recall the Peter Cushing Daleks being that overt in their colour scheme and it really serves no goddamn purpose. I could roll with them being bumped up a size... although I have to admit these things look wierd in their current form but the colours just look like the equivelent of someone thinking it would be 'cool' to see an orange Dalek for a laugh... and then following through on that.

The 'professions' are:

Drone - Red Shirts ?
Scientist - Blue ?
Stratagist
Eternal - What the fuck is that ?
Supreme - White

Incidentally, if Blue is the scientist its sad it had to point out the fact the Jammy Dodger was a stupid bluff. Even more stupid that the Time War daleks apparantly have to close range to scan something while this Dalek did it without the Doctor knowing a damn thing.

As for the greater size, I presume its to allow more stuff for them to do... the mid section rotation would have been a good start but the model dosent look like it will be able to do that very well. Seems a wasted opportunity if they havent taken the chance to enhance the actual props when the could have stuck with the Time War versions.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I liked the ep, I voted for 5. It was really good fun, for me, and Daleks are always a hoot. Yeah, yeah, tired scheme of resurrecting the Daleks, but the Spitfires were sweet, the Robot Scientist was pretty cool, and multi-colored Daleks! Hah! And the Daleks won! Yes! They survived and escaped! Yeah!

I liked it. Yeah, I'm a sucker for Daleks. Sue me.

though, what about the robot scientist? did they just let him go? Eh?
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Gramzamber »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:though, what about the robot scientist? did they just let him go? Eh?
Yep. Apparently Churchill is just going to let the guy who made SPACE SPITFIRES in 5 minutes go too.
Sure. Why couldn't they just have taken him on the TARDIS for a few episodes? It would've been great.
"No it's just Anacrap coming to whine and do nothing." -Mike Nelson on Anakin Skywalker
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Admiral Valdemar
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I would've liked to have seen Bracewell tag along for a while. I mean, we got Mickey doing it for a few episodes with Ten, so why not? Plus, it was the same Scot who played a scientist in that supernatural investigation show a few years back by BBC Scotland.

I gave it a 3, though I can't add anything new to this. Other than I would totally give Amy my TARDIS key. And by TARDIS key, I mean penis. I'm talking sex.

So, looks like Swan is tracking down Angels next week then. I'm excited.
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Re: Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

Post by Plekhanov »

NecronLord wrote:My actual opinion: The new daleks were neat. This episode was basically to set them up, though.

In my opinion, if suffered from the WW2 setting. Even if they did that, they could have avoided Churchill, and I would have liked it more. Would it have killed them to use America instead?

The threat to blow up London was a bit lame. That doesn't really compare to unleashing new daleks. I would have have them send technological information to the Axis powers or something.

The high point for me was the Davros-daleks nobly sacrificing themselves to be killed by pure daleks. It nicely illustrates that they're not simply hypocrites.

How Amy has forgotten all the RTD invasions of Earth is interesting.
Not that the episode was particularly convincing but it would have been even less so set in the US. The US was never up against it like the UK was so you could never have a desperate (even though they of course over stated how bad things were for the UK) leader grasping at a "too good to be true" solution. Also one of the few good bits was Ms Ponds amazed reaction at meeting Winston who is a revered or atleast known figure by pretty much everyone in the UK whereas I expect many wouldn't even recognise FDR.
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