Geth vs. Borg

[Stargazer]

So a few things have been brought to my attention... Data was stated to be 'obsolete technology' by Locutus and ignored on several occasions by the Borg. The Queen only wanted him as a companion and to get into Ent-E's computer and was not interested in him at all as a technology source. AI or otherwise.

Another thing to consider... Data knew about the Borg and how they functioned, so he could have locked out the Ent-E computer in a way that the Geth would never have the chance to figure out.

Ok. That pertains to how Data was of no interest to the Borg. Fine.

Data says that he locks out the computer with a "fractal encryption code". That does nothing to prevent the kind of hacking that tries to get around the code rather than break the code. I guess Data's knowledge let him know that the Borg were too uncreative to try such a thing.

Why? They can access computes with ease. And Geth 'data' is just basic operating software on a one on one basis. It is all just mathematics. Data physically locked down the computer with a ridiculously complex code. Geth platforms wouldn't even have the smarts to do that until you got up to a Legion style platform, which happens to be a one of a kind thing, and not something the Borg would encounter.

Geth data are the geth. They are the software. They are known to be very adept at resisting hacking attempts. And Legion is nothing special with as far as geth programs go- what makes him special is the fact that his "mobile platform" is capable of housing around a thousand programs rather than the normal hundred. Geth hubs of millions of programs would be far more advanced than Legion, and practically impregnable to hacking.

Right and drones wouldn't be able to use smaller versions if they had to, because...?

The point is not that they wouldn't be able to. The point is that they simply wouldn't. When they are trying to assimilate, Borg drones advance at enemies and try to inject them with nanoprobes. They don't use weapons. They try to inject even when injection is completely useless, like the Borg drone in "Scorpion" which was trying to assimilate the 8472 bioship.

You mean like all the hacking evidence you have produced? What miracle hacking have the Geth done that shows any hint that they can hack the Borg?

Well, for remote hacking ability, here is an excerpt from the codex entry on geth Hoppers:

"They can also perform cyber warfare attacks against the onboard computers of body armor hardsuits and weapons, adversely affecting their performance."

Consider the fact that geth programs are transitional. Geth are purely software; any computer that geth programs were downloaded to would, essentially, become geth. If the geth can download themselves to the computers of Borg ships or even into the implants of a Borg drone, they would take control of them.

IIRC in all those instances, there was an 'inside man' helping with the virus/hack being spread... Locutus, Hugh, 7 Of 9. Three beings that helped because their humanity was reached... how are the Geth going to accomplish that? The Borg can't be simply 'hacked'.

If the Borg try to "assimilate" and access geth programs, that could be a way. Or the aforementioned taking control of a single drone, then using it to spread geth software through a ship's vinculum.

Dude, how many computer programs do you think are running on just Earth right now? Now imagine a 23rd century planet or starship? Now imagine a thousand such worlds. Yeah I'm not seeing a problem here. P.S. How can an intelligence be the size of a galactic arm... and not actually be the size of galactic arm... OH hyperbole.

You didn't explain what your point was.

So where is your proof that it is possible? That the Geth hacked the Quarians? The Geth WERE the Quarian computers. What else have the Geth hacked?

The geth regularly perform cyberwarfare, as noted above.

But yet, they seem to work almost all the time. Oh and that is Federation transporter tech. Borg transporter tech is not stopped by little things like shields unless you know how to counter it. Oops, too bad for the Geth. Do kinetic barriers even have frequency modulation?

I thought the Borg needed to drain shields with their tractor beam before beaming?

And? Data wipes clearly do not destroy every thing as we saw in ME2. The Borg, if they can even be bothered with the Geth, can take all the time in the world to figure out the systems.

What do you mean "as we saw in ME2"?

Uh... so? I hear the Borg are sorta patient. Oh and you mean the Geth, that WERE the Quarians computers, work force and military force completely defeated them? Wow, what an astounding accomplishment there. Hmmm the Geth call it The Morning War... probably because it took all morning.

The geth are never described as acting as the quarians' computers or military, just their labor force.

Actually no, the Borg do not assimilate 'purely organic races', the assimilate organic races that have integrated technology into their every day lives. And as I pointed out, Data, a pure synthetic was completely ignored by the Borg on many occasions. And the Borg gain nothing but bodies (which they can make themselves as needed) by assimilating no tech races.

Biologically, they are purely organic. If the Borg only cared about technology, they wouldn't bother assimilating whole species- they would just assimilate a good enough number to get their technology, then leave well enough alone. The phrase is "we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own", not just technological.

I hear copying a few hundred computer programs is something the Borg can not do. Oh wait.

You've got to gain access to programs before you can copy them.

Yet one more reason for the Borg to ignore them. Once they have a single mobile platform, they will have all the data they need on the physical tools of the Geth.

Because every single mobile platform is identical, right?

Why would they need to be? Their ships are self repairing. Hey, that is already more advanced than a Geth.

And the award for "totally missing the point" goes to... Havok!

The point was not that the geth are able to do such a transition to enact repairs. The point was the transitional nature itself.

Enterprise demonstrated the Borg can literally stick probes into a wall and Borgify it in seconds and their speed at doing so has always been fast. They tore up the E-E and Voyagers cargo bay to facilitate themselves in short order and I can only imagine them doing the same to Geth technology.

Wait a sec. There is no evidence that nanoprobes were used to do that. For all we know, the drones installed the modifications on the Ent-E, and the stuff in Voyager's cargo bay was beamed in with the Borg.

At best the Borg are going to engage the Geth at first, study them and then lose intrest in favour of assimilating the organic creatures of MEU. The Quarians make an ideal target since they BUILT the Geth and are natural tech experts of MEU. Alternatively, assimilate a few human tech experts and the Borg rapidly gain access to how the MEU works AND they can go hunting for Biotics.
By the time the Borg come around to the Geth they will have the tech and hacking expertise of the organics in MEU so whats left for the Geth to offer except target practice ?

Again, what makes organics more interesting than synthetics? And the Borg don't study a species for its technology while leaving the actual race alone. They assimilate them wholesale.

[Ghost Rider]

Let's see...because we don't want ST to rape a ME civilzation we place restrictions then place said civilization in circumstance to wonder what would they want with the lesser race.

The Geth have....well they achieve AI level by gathering together. Nothing much more then that. The Borg achieved that and are better then 90% of a galaxy that can at least achieve independent FTL.

Are we having a conversation because the OP is being a pendatic idiot to go "But they'd want the GETH because of RIFLES!!!!"?

The Borg are idiots for not adopting long range weaponry on drones and have no real kinetic shielding on said drones. But given they have in their universe achieved top of the ladder technologically, I'd say you need a better reason from your ass of writer's fiat to convince anyone why'd they would want a lesser version of themselves. Especially since you don't want to see who would curbstomp who.

[Stargazer]

What restrictions have I placed on the Borg?

If the Borg were only concerned with being the "top of the ladder technologically", they would have stopped assimilating long ago, and wouldn't have cared about the Ent-D. If they only cared about obtaining every technology, they wouldn't bother assimilating species. The Borg MO is: they see a race. They see it has interesting technology, though not necessarily superior to theirs. They try to assimilate the entire race. It's just their nature, they don't need a logical reason to assimilate an entire race.

[Kuroji]

This reminds me of the one single thing I miss from the Borg, from earlier on before they went from the bogeyman to the stomp-them-flat-twice-monthly non-threat they are.

I miss the Borg being the ultimate user, not really caring so much about the people, and just about the technology itself, and only the technology. I miss the Borg not going 'rar, nanotubes' every time they see someone. THAT Borg would go after the Geth themselves because they ARE technology. They are, quite literally, something they can use, something they can consume.

(Having not played Mass Effect, however, I'll withhold on who would actually WIN here.)

[PREDATOR490]

Voyager demonstrated the Borg DO ignore species otherwise the Kazon, Talaxians and Echebs homeworld should have been fucked long ago. The latter of which is patrolled by the Borg but ignored unless the Borg see some technology at work. THEN they assimilate that but there was no indication the Borg were assimilating the population.

The Borg are Cyborgs, the Geth are pure AI machines with no squishy bits thus I do not see them assimilating the Geth. The Geth do not possess any specific technology the Borg either logically wont have encounted before or has been demonstrated in STO.
Kinetic barriers - Forcefields
Shielding - They have them, they just dont USE them
Energy Rifles - They evidently dont WANT to use stuff like this because their goal is to ASSIMILATE the target not KILL it and if they are going to KILL Geth, blasting them from orbit negates any particular ground advantage the Geth have.

If the Geth actively get in the way of the Borg they either get assimilated or blown away. Otherwise the Borg just ignore them like the Kazon, Talaxians etc. until the Borg decide they want something from them. In which case, the Borg take it or slaughter the Geth until they can.
If the Geth REALLY start pissing off the Borg, well we have seen the Borgs approach to serious threats is either a) Build super bombs (Scorpian) or b) Start throwing around significant numbers of ships (Scorpian, Dark Frontier, Endgame)

If the MEU races are able to engage the Geth reasonably and hold them at bay then I fail to see how a Borg armada of multiple ships is going to do anything but curbstomp any Geth that get in the way. Even with Geth having better ground capability its not going to do shit to be able to shred Borg drones if they change to the 'Nanovirus' approach (Dark Frontier) or simply beam / carve / scoop and disect from their ships.

[Stargazer]

The reason the Kazon are ignored is not just because they are low technologically, but their assimilation would actual be detrimental to the Collective. Meaning Kazon biology being assimilated would be a bad thing. Again, the Borg don't ignore species just for the fact that they are technologically below them, or they would not bother to assimilate any race at all (except 8472). You're missing a few bits of technology, btw.

Shielding- the Borg certainly can shield their ships. But they obviously can't put conventional shields on drones, instead settling for shields that are only affective when set to a certain frequency (and can't be set to every frequency), and are ineffective against projectile weapons. Personal kinetic barriers represent technology the Borg don't have and would want, especially if they are going to go romping around in the MEU. Geth shield tech is actually stated to be better than other MEU races' shield tech, so it would be in the Borg's interest to assimilate their shield tech.
Hacking- Imagine if, instead of simply transmitting their greeting to races they encounter with a demand to drop shields, they could hack enemy ships and forcibly shut down a ship's shields. That would speed up assimilation.
Personal cloaking tech- Self-explanatory.

Are these technologies that would greatly aid the Borg? No, but they are still technologies the Borg don't have. The Federation hardly had technology greatly advantageous over the Borg, but the Borg still were interested in them to the point of trying to assimilate their home world.

As for ship numbers, estimates on a single geth fleet range from 5,000 to 10,000 ships, and that may be only a single fleet of a faction that represents 5% of the geth. So the Borg aren't going to have much of a numbers advantage in space.

[Dooso]

The Borg are idiots for not adopting long range weaponry on drones and have no real kinetic shielding on said drones. But given they have in their universe achieved top of the ladder technologically, I'd say you need a better reason from your ass of writer's fiat to convince anyone why'd they would want a lesser version of themselves. Especially since you don't want to see who would curbstomp who.

They aren't quite at the top of the ladder technologically... I could be wrong but in the Think Tank episode didn't that ship have some more advanced tech than the Borg?

At any rate, I'm not sure how the Borg would assimilate them for a couple reasons.

1. Geth self-destruct upon 'deactivation' to keep people from learning their tech and getting data. Would they do it if a Borg injected them with nano-probes? Possibly.

2. Geth are pretty heavily armed. The Geth Prime for example (I know it's not an average Geth ) has shields and armor and require fairly heavy firepower to be brought to bear to take them out. Would the borg have a chance of getting near one of these?

3. We've seen at least one Geth space station and it was fairly LARGE but no idication on if it had any external firepower. We can probably assume that it did.

4. Geth ships (along with most other warships in the MEU) seem to use high explosive missiles/rockets. I'm not sure on their exact firepower, I'll have to load up the game and look at the codex again for that. Regardless, it seems that, in a fleet, they are able to dish out some decent punishment and could potentially hold their own against the Borg since we have no idea how effective Borg weapons and tractor beams would be against Mass Effect fields or kinetic barriers. We can probably assume that the Borg would find a way to adapt to them and do damage but if the Geth destroy themselves to keep themselves and their tech from being captured, is it safe to say that they would to do the same to their ships?