Doctor Who "Victory of the Daleks" [Spoilers]

[Admiral Valdemar]

FDR looks like John Voight. I know that much.

[Gramzamber]

Well they could've set it in Russia, in Stalingrad or something.
Why? SOVIET DALEKS. That's why.

[Srelex]

Well they could've set it in Russia, in Stalingrad or something.
Why? SOVIET DALEKS. That's why.

"COL-LEC-TIV-IZE!"

Anyway, I guess the doctor meeting Stalin would be rather more uncomfortable than with Churchill.

[NecronLord]

Not that the episode was particularly convincing but it would have been even less so set in the US. The US was never up against it like the UK was so you could never have a desperate (even though they of course over stated how bad things were for the UK) leader grasping at a "too good to be true" solution. Also one of the few good bits was Ms Ponds amazed reaction at meeting Winston who is a revered or atleast known figure by pretty much everyone in the UK whereas I expect many wouldn't even recognise FDR.

Allow me to explain what I was imagining:

Japanese Fortress Islands.

Seriously nasty shit where Daleks would be the ideal solution (though in fairness, they're the ideal solution to a lot of things).

[speaker-to-trolls]

"COL-LEC-TIV-IZE!"

Anyway, I guess the doctor meeting Stalin would be rather more uncomfortable than with Churchill.

^It'd be extremely uncomfortable and would have to be in a much darker episode than this one, possibly too dark for Dr Who, period. Maybe it spoils the atmosphere of Dr Who but I like it if, now and again, the Doctor has to confront the fact that he lets some awful things happen while fighting with all he's got to stop others.
It's something that bugged me about this episode; they treat Churchill wanting the technology and the Doctor dismantling it as just a friendly difference of opinion, but to Churchill this would be a matter of life and death. The Doctor talks about 'the darkest of days' being ahead as if it'll just be character building, but thousands of people will die, and he could prevent it. And that's just in Britain, and compared with Russia and Eastern Europe, and even Germany by the end of the war, Britain got off lightly.

[Straha]

This episode was pure and utter shit.

First, if you're going to have Churchill in it could you do more than make every scene with him the same damn conversation? Churchill wants to win the war, we get it. The Doctor hates the Daleks, we know. And Churchill doesn't understand what the Doctor is saying, which is... understandable. That conversation should take two minutes, tops. Then the Doctor should realize that Churchill has no way of knowing what the Doctor is talking about and that the Daleks can be clever little shits and start acting accordingly. Hell, if he really wants to convince Churchill about the Daleks why not take him inside the TARDIS and show him old footage of the Daleks butchering everyone that comes in sight? No real disadvantage to that, and then he can have the Prime Minister order the Daleks on a "special mission" to who knows where and make sure they get good and blown up on the way.

Second, this is the set up, as I understand it: These Daleks are Davros Daleks. They survived the "Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" and then found the device containing "Pure Dalek DNA." (As an aside, I remember from Stolen Earth that there was a set up that the Daleks under control of the Dalek Emperor were PURE Daleks who were the pinnacle of their evolution and could best even the TARDIS. Of course holding Doctor Who to that would require continuity over the span of six episodes, which is a tad much to ask these days.) Problem is that the device doesn't recognize the Davros Daleks as real Daleks and thus won't activate for them. Why? Who knows. Maybe the Daleks have a rule that only allows them to be resurrected by hokey plot device? Of course, if I were a Dalek I'd be willing to pop out of that device at the drop of a hat and kill everyone in sight and over come all obstacles in my way by brute fucking force, because that's what Daleks do. But I digress. So with this device in hand the Davros Daleks decide that the only way to activate the Dalek spawn point is to be recognized by the Doctor, and only the Doctor, as Daleks. So they go to World War II, construct a human look-a-like robot with a Wormhole in his chest and then have him "discover" Daleks. They then masquerade as British soldiers hoping that Winston Churchill will call in the Doctor, and that the Doctor will then A. come and B. say the magic words "I'm the Doctor, you're the Daleks!" and not, for instance, destroy the Daleks as soon as he sees them. This is, of course, shit writing.

Worse is that when the Doctor does declare them to be Daleks instead of sending the testimony up to the Ship and maintaining their facade of until backup arrives, or shooting the Doctor in "self defense" and then beaming up to the ship with their only real opposition destroyed, they A. kill a bunch of harmless marines to prove they're grade A EVIL and B. shoot their ace-in-the-hole Doctor mole to prove he's a Robot for all to see, and then run away. This of course merely proves that there is a place where good ideas come to die, and it is the new Doctor Who.

I want to rant and rave about the Spitfires, or the incredibly lame "If you don't leave we'll leave the lights on in London! MWAHAHAHA!" threat, or the shoe-horned emotional plot regarding extra lady and unseen pilot. But I just can't get into it, this episode was utter and complete shit in every way.

2/5. Only because I remember Journey's End, and I don't want to give this episode the dignity of being rated as that much of a turd.

[Plekhanov]

Not that the episode was particularly convincing but it would have been even less so set in the US. The US was never up against it like the UK was so you could never have a desperate (even though they of course over stated how bad things were for the UK) leader grasping at a "too good to be true" solution. Also one of the few good bits was Ms Ponds amazed reaction at meeting Winston who is a revered or atleast known figure by pretty much everyone in the UK whereas I expect many wouldn't even recognise FDR.

Allow me to explain what I was imagining:

Japanese Fortress Islands.

Seriously nasty shit where Daleks would be the ideal solution (though in fairness, they're the ideal solution to a lot of things).

The plot wouldn't work as well though aside from FDR merely being upset about loss rates whilst island hopping instead of the prospect of losing the war would be rather less willing to accept something "too good to be true".

The islands are also a long way from Roosevelt so silly as Churchill being involved in responding to individual air raids was, daleks rolling around next to him in London winding up the Doctor by making comedy offers of tea make some kind of sense as there was a reason for them to be in London. I don't see how that would work at all set in the US.

[Plekhanov]

This episode was pure and utter shit.

First, if you're going to have Churchill in it could you do more than make every scene with him the same damn conversation? Churchill wants to win the war, we get it. The Doctor hates the Daleks, we know. And Churchill doesn't understand what the Doctor is saying, which is... understandable. That conversation should take two minutes, tops. Then the Doctor should realize that Churchill has no way of knowing what the Doctor is talking about and that the Daleks can be clever little shits and start acting accordingly. Hell, if he really wants to convince Churchill about the Daleks why not take him inside the TARDIS and show him old footage of the Daleks butchering everyone that comes in sight? No real disadvantage to that, and then he can have the Prime Minister order the Daleks on a "special mission" to who knows where and make sure they get good and blown up on the way.

That to me was one of many major problems with the episode, he's supposed to be a super genius yet faced with a simple problem proceeds to try and solve it in an obviously moronic manner that was bound to fail. It's hardly as if he's unpractised at having to explain things to lesser minds without his experience either. Terrible writing only concerned with cheap dramatic scenes of the Doctor screaming and shouting.

[Ariphaos]

Second, this is the set up, as I understand it: These Daleks are Davros Daleks. *snip*

They were the daleks Rose ex Machina took out - half-human.

[Srelex]

Second, this is the set up, as I understand it: These Daleks are Davros Daleks. *snip*

They were the daleks Rose ex Machina took out - half-human.

I think Word of God confirmed them as Davros Daleks.

[Crossroads Inc.]

though, what about the robot scientist? did they just let him go? Eh?

Yep. Apparently Churchill is just going to let the guy who made SPACE SPITFIRES in 5 minutes go too.
Sure. Why couldn't they just have taken him on the TARDIS for a few episodes? It would've been great.

I pretty much said the same thing in my post. Leaving him on Earth was such a massive plot hole. You would think that there would be a scene with Churchill going "Oh ok, you win, ill give you the tech back" and then he tries to sneak off and the Doctor says "No Churchill, the Professor has to come with us too!"

The amount of Stupidity that has to take place for this episode to transpire only shows just how bad the writing is. its been really bad since the third season and just gets worse. I'll say its not "Bad" in the sense of not being enjoyable, many of the new who plots are "enjoyable" but they just have SO many gaping plot holes.

Straha commenting about the Doctor 'convincing' Churchill about the Daleks is also spot on. It should have taken a minuet or son of showing him footage to convince him. And can I also say that thanks to the Doctor going all "YOU ARE MY ENEMY! RAR!!!" He gave the Daleks EXACTLY what they needed? That if he... excuse me..

If the Horrid Writers had not FORCED him to act that way. He could have easily figured out what the daleks wanted in any number of ways without screaming like an idiot and bashing it with a Wrench... I mean REALLY a Wrench??

[PREDATOR490]

I did find it somewhat stupid the Doctor seems to go out of his way to antagonise the Daleks. Alright, they are the bad guys that are hell bent on intergalactic genocide... and you want to attack one in a room with a KEY historic figure... ?

It would have been more prudent to play along and see what the fuck they were doing but no, the Doctor just jumps right into doing exactly what the Daleks wanted. Its just hilariously bad writing the Dalek didnt just take the testimony and zap the Doctor or Winston Churchill like that situation would have ended. However, Doctor Who has consistantly resulted in escalating amounts of stupidity from the villains explaining their evil plans to the Doctor and letting him waltz around unchecked. Granted, the old series had its fair share of this but the new series just takes it over the top.

The Doctor is onboard your ship... and the 'SUPER' Daleks turn their back on him. No effort to secure or cut him off from the TARDIS which should be the prime target. Remove the TARDIS from the Doctor and he is literally helpless. Even the Sontarans figured that one out and personnally I'm of the opinion Doctor Who could do with another stranded-on-Earth deals inorder to force some grounded action. The jumping back and forth does not make for decent threat continuity.

Doctor Who isnt 'hard' sci-fi by any stretch so it can get away with the general goofy shit but so far its just become a farce of special effects with nothing to really back it up. It would be nice to have Doctor Who attempt to keep things a bit more grounded or suspensful like Blink. Instead, Spitfires in space and Power Ranger Daleks... in WW2. Oh my... I'm on the edge of my seat knowing that this entire episode wastes the situation and that none of it will have any real effect beyond setting up the return of the Daleks.

[Shroom Man 777]

though, what about the robot scientist? did they just let him go? Eh?

Yep. Apparently Churchill is just going to let the guy who made SPACE SPITFIRES in 5 minutes go too.
Sure. Why couldn't they just have taken him on the TARDIS for a few episodes? It would've been great.

Hrm.... if the Doctor told Churchill that he's disposing all of the Dalek technology, including the Robot Scientist, and if the Robot Scientist sneaks away and goes back to his home, then how would Churchill know that the Robot Scientist has NOT been destroyed/confiscated and is actually frolicking out there in Sandford Glostershire or wherever, having a normal life? Churchill would still think that the Doctor destroyed the Robot Scientist, along with the rest of the Dalek tech, and wouldn't know better.

Yeah, though, I hope Moffat and his crew tighten up the next episodes properly. I thought we were done with the RTD days of silly writing.

[NecronLord]

Fuck's sake. Power Ranger Daleks? Must people keep saying this? They're these:



Camp as a row of tents, yes. But I've never seen this Power Rangers thing (thankfully, I caught ten minutes about a decade ago, and it was dire).

Second, this is the set up, as I understand it: These Daleks are Davros Daleks. *snip*

They were the daleks Rose ex Machina took out - half-human.

No they were not. Their ship was of the same class that the davros ones used, entirely different from the Emperor's dalek saucers.

[Shroom Man 777]

Frankly, we need to see more of the Daleks doing more villainous things that AREN'T just omnicidal destroy the universe thing, but more scheming and evilling and stuff. What did the old Daleks from the old series do? I'm sure they weren't just into bullshit schemes of reality-wrecking, or CGI-laden dumb explosionfests. I'm sure they did lots of interesting things. So let's have that old stuff, and silly multi-colored Daleks too!

[Gramzamber]

Hrm.... if the Doctor told Churchill that he's disposing all of the Dalek technology, including the Robot Scientist, and if the Robot Scientist sneaks away and goes back to his home, then how would Churchill know that the Robot Scientist has NOT been destroyed/confiscated and is actually frolicking out there in Sandford Glostershire or wherever, having a normal life? Churchill would still think that the Doctor destroyed the Robot Scientist, along with the rest of the Dalek tech, and wouldn't know better.

See that would work if the Doctor had taken him on the TARDIS.
But are we supposed to believe that anyone can walk in and out of the cabinet war rooms? If the big chief scientist guy suddenly strolls out there won't be a guard to stop him and check with Churchill, especially as in this episode Churchill appears to be in charge of absolutely everything?

[Srelex]

I suppose if the writers are smart or realize this in retrospect they could play him up in the future.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hrm.... if the Doctor told Churchill that he's disposing all of the Dalek technology, including the Robot Scientist, and if the Robot Scientist sneaks away and goes back to his home, then how would Churchill know that the Robot Scientist has NOT been destroyed/confiscated and is actually frolicking out there in Sandford Glostershire or wherever, having a normal life? Churchill would still think that the Doctor destroyed the Robot Scientist, along with the rest of the Dalek tech, and wouldn't know better.

See that would work if the Doctor had taken him on the TARDIS.
But are we supposed to believe that anyone can walk in and out of the cabinet war rooms? If the big chief scientist guy suddenly strolls out there won't be a guard to stop him and check with Churchill, especially as in this episode Churchill appears to be in charge of absolutely everything?

Hey, he could've rigged himself an indivisibility device or wore a false moustache so Winston Churchill wouldn't recognize him. Then again a false moustache might make people think he's a Hitler, and then he'd get shot.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Lols. I miss the Daleks of old. The one's who WEREN'T "We can blow up the universe!" so they had to scheme to be cerdible. Still, it was nice that they are back for good and not genocided AGAIN.

Also, this episode sorta clears up when Amy is from, or at least when the main events of "The Eleventh Hour" happen. The Doctor clearly expected her to remember Stolen Earth nonsense, so she must have been taken after 2008/2009.

[Thanas]

Holy donkey, and to think I ever had hopes for the Moffat era. This is on par with RTD Season 3/4.

[Shroom Man 777]

Holy donkey, and to think I ever had hopes for the Moffat era. This is on par with RTD Season 3/4.

Shut up! Don't make me sad, I still have high hopes! Moffat will not fail us! Come on, next episode, Weeping Angels! Uurrrggghhhh! *clenches*

[Admiral Valdemar]

Christ, can we have some more hyperbole here? I've not quite drowned from the tears of sorrow and angst over one episode that didn't get a 5 star rating and also wasn't penned by RTD.

[Thanas]

Christ, can we have some more hyperbole here? I've not quite drowned from the tears of sorrow and angst over one episode that didn't get a 5 star rating and also wasn't penned by RTD.

Oh wow. We have had two mediocre episodes that made no sense and one somewhat decent premiere. This is not hyperbole, that is my honest assesment. And what hurts is that Moffat can do much, much better as evidenced by his past episodes.

[Gramzamber]

Well I'm hoping it's just a slow and.. odd start to get some exposition out of the way before the awesome starts.
Maybe. Hopefully. Possibly.

[NecronLord]

Hrm.... if the Doctor told Churchill that he's disposing all of the Dalek technology, including the Robot Scientist, and if the Robot Scientist sneaks away and goes back to his home, then how would Churchill know that the Robot Scientist has NOT been destroyed/confiscated and is actually frolicking out there in Sandford Glostershire or wherever, having a normal life? Churchill would still think that the Doctor destroyed the Robot Scientist, along with the rest of the Dalek tech, and wouldn't know better.

See that would work if the Doctor had taken him on the TARDIS.
But are we supposed to believe that anyone can walk in and out of the cabinet war rooms? If the big chief scientist guy suddenly strolls out there won't be a guard to stop him and check with Churchill, especially as in this episode Churchill appears to be in charge of absolutely everything?

Actually, yeah. He probably could just leave. British WW2 high security installations weren't all time locked 'you don't leave without a chit' affairs. While he'd be checked on the way out, unless someone had deliberately issued orders to detain him, there's no reason he'd be stopped. There was one just round the corner from where I work (Western Approaches HQ) the staff went in and out all the time, they weren't exactly in the middle of nowhere or full time army bases.

And frankly, that's assuming he didn't bother to just take that dalek gun and shoot his way out with it on paralyse - not like they programmed him with the memories of a soldier or anything is it? Why are you assuming he's vulnerable to bullets (barring, perhaps, roof of the mouth self inflicted)? Most robots in Doctor Who aren't, let alone dalek-tech robots. Most of his chest is a solid plate of what appears to be dalekinium.