Doctor Who: "The Eleventh Hour" [spoilers]

[Eternal_Freedom]

Thats true. Once or twice in the new series I would like to hear about one of the OTHER time wars Galifrey fought. TL vs Daleks is just geting old

[Gramzamber]

Oooo possibly. But in the trailer we see two different ones, the khaki one and a white domed one with a different eyestalk

We also see a Dalek saucer.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Oh yes, attacking spitfires in space. Well, that throws a spanner in the works as to the idea of "friendly daleks"

Pity

[NecronLord]

Thats true. Once or twice in the new series I would like to hear about one of the OTHER time wars Galifrey fought. TL vs Daleks is just geting old

Well, to put it quite simply, they've not, in living memory. Most Old Series examples were the Time Lords smiting something from on high. To quote the fourth doctor. "The Time Lords of Gallifrey led a life of peace and ordered calm, protected against all threats from lesser civilizations by their great power."

[Stark]

There's all the CIA stuff they did around maintianing the vortex monopoly, which was pretty funny.

[Captain Seafort]

Oh yes, attacking spitfires in space. Well, that throws a spanner in the works as to the idea of "friendly daleks"

Not necessarily - it might be something along the lines of Evil's civil war.

[NecronLord]

There's all the CIA stuff they did around maintianing the vortex monopoly, which was pretty funny.

Also kinda stupid and contradictory at times.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hang on a sec. During the opening scenes of this episode, the Doctor travels over a very modern London skyline with the London Eye already built. So when he landed in Little Girl Amy's backyard, this wasn't in the past (say, 80s or 90s) but very much in the 2000s, right? So when he jumped 12 years into the future and then 2 more years...

Assuming that that London Eye the Doctor flew over was just a freshly built one, and the Eye was made in 1999, that means after 12 years the Doctor returned in 2011 at the earliest. Plus two more years... AMY POND is from 2013! And this is just basing it on the London Eye and not on the other modern buildings that he flew over that might be used to form a basis for which time period that thing happened. UNLESS the time period wherein he flew over London isn't the same as when he landed on Little Girl Amy's backyard, and that there was some chrono-shifting in between off-screen before his crash landing!

[Crazedwraith]

Well the last scene in The End of Time was 1st Jan 2005. + 12 years gets you to 2017 and 2019 for the last scene. Assuming no off screen time jumps.

Tangentially, I just saw the End Of Time for the first time yesterday (Shudder), does anyone have an in-universe idea for why the TARDIS decided to EXPLODE during the regeneration sequence? When it hasn't in any prior regeneration even in NuWHo. (Eccleston/Tennat or Jaccobi/Simms)

[Shroom Man 777]

End of Time was in 2005? What? How does that work? Eh?

[Crazedwraith]

Not the entirety, just the very last scene. Where he meets Rose on Jan 1st 2005 and tells 'she's going to have an interesting year' then staggers back to the TARDIS and regenerates. Causing it to explode and start crashing.

[Captain Seafort]

Tangentially, I just saw the End Of Time for the first time yesterday (Shudder), does anyone have an in-universe idea for why the TARDIS decided to EXPLODE during the regeneration sequence? When it hasn't in any prior regeneration even in NuWHo. (Eccleston/Tennat or Jaccobi/Simms)

None of the previous regenerations involved energy shooting out of his hand straight into the time rotor. That, plus the fact that the regeneration itself could have been more violent due to him holding it off for so long, is the most likely explanation I've heard (it was here, IIRC).

[NecronLord]

The main body of action in Eleventh Doctor is probably today.

See: Patrick Moore.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Good point.

Also, Necron_Lord, there have been other wars the TL fought cannonically. Their war with the Great Vampires for instance, and one with the Racnoss before Earth formed. Those are two. Logically there must be other time wars than the TL/Dalek one, otherwise it wouldnt be called the LAST Great Time War

[Patrick Degan]

Finally got to see this on BBC America Saturday. Very much different from the RTD approach of a grand-scale End Of The World Threat™ to one that's localised entirely in a single village and therefore much more traditional Doctor Who than what we've been having foisted on us. Rather liked Matt Smith, more than I thought I would, and enjoyed his final confrontation with the Atraxi. Defeating Prisoner Zero by getting through to the unconscious Amy, to dream of what she saw in the room she wasn't supposed to go into, thereby forcing it to impersonate itself, was a nice twist. Overall, a good, economical script involving just what the Doctor had on hand to improvise a worldsaving solution to the situation: no deus-ex-machina, no wondertoys, nothing simply pulled out of thin air. Had a few clangers but I'll be generous and give it a four. I do hope, though, that Steven Moffat gets Murray Gold to dial down the intensity of the incidental music, as it still leaned heavily on that bombastic style that had become de-rigeur in the RTD era.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I enjoyed it, and I now have a MASSIVE crush on Karen Gillian, especially when she's in her police costume.

edit: Do they even DO kissograms anymore? I would've thought its all strippers now.

[Eternal_Freedom]

No idea, although that might be another clue as to when she is from. My gut is telling shes from around 2010 maybe 2011 though. Otherwise its jsut confusing.

And, yes, the police costume was very hot

[Bedlam]

I enjoyed it, and I now have a MASSIVE crush on Karen Gillian, especially when she's in her police costume.

edit: Do they even DO kissograms anymore? I would've thought its all strippers now.

I did wonder if she might be making her job a bit more PC than it might be when discussing it with the strange man, not that I expect it to come up later than she was a stripper or more (Hark the sound of a thousand fan fics being written )

[Crazedwraith]

I enjoyed it, and I now have a MASSIVE crush on Karen Gillian, especially when she's in her police costume.

edit: Do they even DO kissograms anymore? I would've thought its all strippers now.

I did wonder if she might be making her job a bit more PC than it might be when discussing it with the strange man, not that I expect it to come up later than she was a stripper or more (Hark the sound of a thousand fan fics being written )

Yeah, I'm thinking kissogram is about as far as you can go at 6:30 on BBC 1. This is Doctor Who, not Torchwood.

[Temujin]

Also finally saw it Saturday, and surprisingly loved it (gave it a 4). I went in fully expecting to be disappointed, but ended up loving Smith's version of the Doctor.

I loved the part where he takes the laptop: "Jeff, get a girlfriend!"

He's certainly a breath of fresh air after Tennant. While Tennant certainly had some great moment at times, his character got a bit, I don't know, cliched after a while.

Very much different from the RTD approach of a grand-scale End Of The World Threat™ to one that's localised entirely in a single village and therefore much more traditional Doctor Who than what we've been having foisted on us.

I initially didn't realize that, but it does remind a lot more of the Pertwee/T.Baker era I grew up watching.

Overall, a good, economical script involving just what the Doctor had on hand to improvise a worldsaving solution to the situation: no deus-ex-machina, no wondertoys, nothing simply pulled out of thin air.

That was another great thing, and one I hope we see a little more of.

I enjoyed it, and I now have a MASSIVE crush on Karen Gillian, especially when she's in her police costume.

edit: Do they even DO kissograms anymore? I would've thought its all strippers now.

Seconded! The funny thing is, I originally just assumed she was supposed to be a police officer, that is until I got a look at that very short skirt.

Regarding Kissograms, this is what Wiki has to say:

Kissogram

A kissogram or kissagram is a message delivered along with a kiss,[1], usually arranged as a fun surprise for a person for a special occasion. Message deliverers can be hired either by themselves, or as part of an agency.

A Kissogram or Kissing telegram is usually presented by a male or female performer dressed in a costume or uniform such as a policewoman or nurse or french maid or nun. Popular throughout the world in the 1980s, they have now been mostly replaced by strippograms or strippers.

1. ^ "kissagram". Encarta World English Dictionary. http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/ ... =561510518. Retrieved 2010-04-18.

[B5B7]

She had a fake police costume, but she had a pair of real handcuffs she used on the Doctor.

[mr friendly guy]

Good point.

Also, Necron_Lord, there have been other wars the TL fought cannonically. Their war with the Great Vampires for instance, and one with the Racnoss before Earth formed. Those are two. Logically there must be other time wars than the TL/Dalek one, otherwise it wouldnt be called the LAST Great Time War

The war with the Great Vampires most probably wasn't a time war, as per the dating of the EU novels. It began around the time Rassilon was still researching time travel.

If you read my fic it does mention the Time Wars they fought according to EU sources, although I don't know the original source since I got it second hand from a website. However according to RTD the war with the Daleks was the third time war. There were two others which didn't start with the Time Lords, but they intervened, I suppose sort of like how NATO finally intervened with the conflicts in Yugoslavia. From memory one involved the Haldons and the Eternals. The EU mentions other wars, IIRC one of them involved the same faction in the second time war, and a conflict with intelligent bacteria which apparently doesn't count, even though the TL did wipe them out from time.

Now if you want to reconcile all this (as opposed to outright ignore EU sources), its relatively simple. Those other Time Wars not mention by RTD are simply ones the TL covered up. In the EU they refer to some of them as myth. While those ones RTD mentions are the ones the TL like to remember because they were "the good guys" in it, whereas the EU has them being genocidal nutbars (and not all of it was due to Rassilon but his successors), so future TL like to pretend it never happened.

[Lost Soal]

Whats to reconcile? The Doctor has specifically called it the LAST Great Time War. They haven't reconned the previous ones away, the Doctor just focusses on this one because the results had a massive impact on him personally,.

[mr friendly guy]

Whats to reconcile? The Doctor has specifically called it the LAST Great Time War. They haven't reconned the previous ones away, the Doctor just focusses on this one because the results had a massive impact on him personally,.

I was refering to the wars BEFORE the last great time war, which was stated as the THIRD time war in the sourcebooks. Since from all sources we can count more than 3 time wars, you can either ignore some of them, or say the TL simply erased from history books their actions when they were clearly the aggressors.

[Big Orange]

@mr friendly guy - So the Time Lords were pricks before in the EU, right? That time with no excuse of staring down several massive gun barrels (ie. the Daleks, Lord President 007, and the myriad awful super-weapons, creatures, and memes resulting from the War).

Finally got to see this on BBC America Saturday. Very much different from the RTD approach of a grand-scale End Of The World Threat™ to one that's localised entirely in a single village and therefore much more traditional Doctor Who than what we've been having foisted on us.

*Sigh*, RTD had clearly seen Independence Day too many times, yet however that said it was just hospitals in peril in his episodes like "New Earth" and "Smith & Jones". Other acclaimed episodes he did not pen, like "Blink" and "Human Nature", had events that were in set in confined, parochial settings (yet had very wide implications in their outcomes), and "Midnight" took place almost entirely on a small tour coach on a remote alien planet.

Rather liked Matt Smith, more than I thought I would, and enjoyed his final confrontation with the Atraxi. Defeating Prisoner Zero by getting through to the unconscious Amy, to dream of what she saw in the room she wasn't supposed to go into, thereby forcing it to impersonate itself, was a nice

"The Eleventh Hour" borrowed hugely from "Smith & Jones"; he had Prisoner Zero standing in for Florence Finnegan (both villains are parasites hiding on Earth) and the Atraxi (eyes in the sky) serve a similar role to the Judoon (ostensibly neutral law enforcement who are very heavy handed).

I do hope, though, that Steven Moffat gets Murray Gold to dial down the intensity of the incidental music, as it still leaned heavily on that bombastic style that had become de-rigeur in the RTD era.

The normally boisterous soundtrack could be more atmospheric and subtle, like Dudley Simpson's and Roger Limb's output, although be careful what you wish for if the BBC takes the toning down of the soundtrack too far and gets rid of Murray Gold altogether (with similar results to Ron Jones getting booted out of TNG). Sometimes I really think the sound mixers should be slapped around with large wooden oars, though the sound mixing is worse for some reason in The Sarah Jane Adventures.