Volcanic eruption closes down UK/Scandinavian airports

[Broomstick]

Oh, just so you Europeans don't think no one else is experiencing ash problems... the airport at St. John Newfoundland, Canada was closed last night and through this morning due to volcanic ash. Yep, same volcano.

That's a different problem - if the wind shifts European skies might open again... but other skies may close. There are potential problems with routes from Europe to Asia over the Arctic if certain wind shift occur.

[Edi]

Broomstick, the German airport you're thinking about is probably Frankfurt am Main.

The demands from some of the airlines about opening up airspace are fucking ridiculous. The IATA reps are being more reasonable, but it's still fucking wishful thinking and shortsightedness if their planes end up needing engine replacements (or plane replacements, as it were).

The Eylafjallajökull is now erupting more conventional lava and throwing ash only 2-3 km into the atmosphere and there have been earthquakes around the area, signaling a change in the eruption cycle.

Onj a personal level, we've already written the holiday in Rome off as a total loss, since the Helsinki-Vantaa airport closed again at 8 pm after a few hours of operation. Ash forecast places tomorrow as completely off limits and the weather patterns look like any ash would stay around for several days, caught in a low pressure front that is due to arrive tomorrow or the day after. Fortunately we at least get everything refunded.

My parents are stuck in Delhi. They were supposed to be back here on Monday, but now their current schedule seems to have a flight arranged on Sunday, but that assumes no further big eruptions or complications.

And I probably need to reschedule some of my holidays, which has already been enough of a pain in the arse. Well, not much that can be done. Shit happens and one just has to deal with it.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Some NATO F-16s were damaged just the other day on patrol too. But hey, we may be resuming flights by tomorrow. The news is saying now that the eruption is doing little, yet the Met just said the quiet period today is already turning around again (check out the traces here for the last couple of days). And we're still not clear of the clouds around the UK now as it is. Even using advanced models with some of the most powerful supercomputer clusters available, and LIDAR and satellite detection with the added bonus of some specialised planes, we can only ascertain coverage, which is dynamic, not nominal concentration. Many see this, as with climate change, as no reason to "overreact" and shutdown the skies. Apparently it's nanny statism if you care about planes falling on people's heads.

Hmm, also, this:

Although the ash plume was not visible to the flight crew, sensitive research experiments and instruments detected it. In-flight performance checks and postflight visual inspections revealed no damage to the airplane or engine first-stage fan blades; subsequent detailed examination of the engines revealed clogged turbine cooling air passages."

...

"There was no evidence of engine damage in the engine trending results, but some of the turbine blades had been operating partially uncooled and may have had a remaining lifetime of as little as 100 hr."

I actually want these money seeking wankers to fly, then wonder why their engines are failing and putting them right back in the red, negating any ticket sales. Engines are NOT cheap, and they're just one part of the aircraft that can fail and need a full replacement, or at least microscopic checking.

Also, anyone seen the hilarious WSJ article on there being no economy impact on the UK? The reasoning goes, we can't export anything, but neither can anyone import anything, so it's neutral.

I'm not making this up. Fucking economists.

[LadyTevar]

I'm sorry, I resisted as long as I could...

Now, I don't know, I don't know where I'm a gonna go
when the volcano blow.
Let me say it now,
I don't know, I don't know where I'm a gonna go
when the volcano blow.

Ground, she movin' under me.
Tidal waves out on the sea.
Sulphur smoke up in the sky.
Not allowing plane to fly.

[Chorus:]
Let me hear you, now
I don't know, I don't know where I'm a gonna go
when the volcano blow.
Let me hear you now.
I don't know, I don't know where I'm a gonna go
when the volcano blow.

My girl quickly say to me,
"Mon you better watch your feet."
Lava come down soft and hot.
"You better lava me now or lava me not.

[Chorus]

No time to count what I'm worth,
cause I just left the planet Earth.
Where I go I hope there's rum.
Not to worry mon soon come.

[Chorus]

But I don't want to land in New York City,
I don't want to land in Mexico. (No-No-No)
I don't want to land on no Three Mile Island;
I don't want to see my skin a-glow. (No-No-No)

Don't want to land in Chicago Sky Park,
or in Nashville, Tennessee. (No-No-No)
I don't want to land in no Madrid airport or
the Yukon Territory. (No-No-No)

Don't want to land no San Diego.
Don't want to land in no Buzzards Bay. (No-No-No)
I don't want to land in no Toronto.
I got nothin' more to say. (No-No-No)

[Chorus:]
Let me hear you, now
I don't know, I don't know where I'm a gonna go
when the volcano blow.
Let me hear you now.
I don't know, I don't know where I'm a gonna go
when the volcano blow.

[Liberty]

On a personal level, we've already written the holiday in Rome off as a total loss, since the Helsinki-Vantaa airport closed again at 8 pm after a few hours of operation. Ash forecast places tomorrow as completely off limits and the weather patterns look like any ash would stay around for several days, caught in a low pressure front that is due to arrive tomorrow or the day after. Fortunately we at least get everything refunded.

Oh, that's too bad! I love Rome. Seeing as I live in the States and wasn't born rich, I've only been there once...but I loved it so much I'm going back the first chance I get.

[Dartzap]

I actually want these money seeking wankers to fly, then wonder why their engines are failing and putting them right back in the red, negating any ticket sales. Engines are NOT cheap, and they're just one part of the aircraft that can fail and need a full replacement, or at least microscopic checking.

Well atleast our industrial stuff gets a boost if that happens - Rolls Royce will be rolling in cash

There was apparently some worry that Hekla was on the verge of kerploding earlier today, but that turned out to be a false alarm, thankfully.

[folti78]

EU moves to ease curbs on flights

The EU has moved to ease air travel curbs imposed after much of Europe's airspace was closed because of the spread of volcanic ash from Iceland.

Transport ministers said there would be a core no-fly area, another open to all flights and a third zone available for a limited service.

The move came as the UK, Germany, the Netherlands, France and Belgium said they would begin to reopen airspace.

Airline chiefs had lambasted officials over the flight ban.

Following talks with the bloc's 27 transport ministers by video conference, EU Transport Commissioner Siim Kallas told reporters in Brussels more planes would start flying from Tuesday.

The airline industry says its losses have soared over $1bn (£650m; 740m euros), since much of Europe's airspace was closed five days ago because of ash from southern Iceland's Eyjafjallajoekull volcano.

BA chief executive Willie Walsh was the latest airline boss to call the flight bans unnecessary.


However, a Nato F-16 fighter jet suffered engine damage after flying through the volcanic ash cloud, said one US official earlier.

In the high temperatures of an engine turbine, ash can turn to molten glass and paralyse the engine.

But experts said the volcano - which erupted last Wednesday for the second time in a month - was now spewing more steam and less ash.

Britain's air traffic control body said airspace in Scotland, parts of the north of England and Northern Ireland would reopen on Tuesday.

The two main German airlines, Lufthansa and Air Berlin, were granted exemptions from the flight ban to allow them to bring home thousands of stranded passengers.

France said it would reopen Lyon airport later on Monday, before opening air corridors for flights between Paris and southern French cities, and eventually all its other airports.

Some passenger flights will be allowed to leave Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam from Monday night, said the Dutch transport minister.

Belgium said it would begin reopening the country's airspace from Tuesday morning.

The International Air Transport Association (Iata) earlier lambasted European leaders for their inaction, calling the travel chaos a mess and an embarrassment.

Iata chief Giovanni Bisignani said: "The decision that Europe has made is with no risk assessment, no consultation, no co-ordination, no leadership."

Airspace closures were costing airlines $200m a day in lost revenue, he said.

'No compromise'

European airlines have asked the EU and national governments for financial compensation for the closure of airspace.

EU Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht said the bloc's economy would suffer badly if the disruption continued for a long time.


"What makes me a little bit afraid is that there is no timer on this volcano," he told news agency Reuters.

But the EU's transport commissioner said there could be no compromise on safety.

The shroud of fine mineral dust particles from the volcano has spread from the Arctic Circle in the north to the French Mediterranean coast in the south, and from Spain into Russia.

Airspace was closed, or partially closed, in more than 20 countries.

Italy's civil aviation authority shut the country's northern airspace until Tuesday morning.

But airports have reopened in Austria, Estonia, Finland, Hungary and Turkey, after authorities there decided there was no longer any risk.

In Spain, where all airports were open, the government offered to let Britain and other European countries use its airports as stopovers to get passengers moving again.

The UK earlier deployed three Royal Navy warships to help pick up stranded passengers from Spain and the Channel ports.

The French railway company SNCF has said it will offer reduced fares and 80,000 extra seats between Paris and London this week.

According to NATS, partial lifting of the UK ban will begin after 07:00 GMT tomorrow. I would be really curious of the maintenance costs of the airliners in the near future ...

According to local radio, the transportation ministers hammered out a more refined system to classify airspace contamination and limit air travel accordingly, but no further information has been given.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yay profit over rational thought! I wonder if we learned anything from Challenger. Guess not.

[Jon]

^Heh, not so fast...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8631144.stm

A new ash cloud spreading towards the UK is causing uncertainty over plans to reopen some airspace on Tuesday, air traffic control body Nats has said.

Earlier, it said the flight ban would be lifted over Scotland, Northern Ireland and the north of England.

But Nats said there was now a worsening situation in some areas.

[Broomstick]

Broomstick, the German airport you're thinking about is probably Frankfurt am Main.

Probably - when I hear "Frankfurt" my first thought is a small suburb of Chicago, not a city in Germany, so that's probably one reason I get thrown off with that one.

The demands from some of the airlines about opening up airspace are fucking ridiculous.

Yes, but those big executives might lose their jobs which is, of course, more important than any little people who might be hurt or killed. I can understand the fear of losing one's job, I've been there, but when my job ended my head didn't explode or whatever. I dunno, maybe big executives are different than regular human beings...

The IATA reps are being more reasonable, but it's still fucking wishful thinking and shortsightedness if their planes end up needing engine replacements (or plane replacements, as it were).

True. However, a more nuanced approach to flight restrictions might be warranted. The UK does seem to be keeping a close eye on things and allowing flights when it seems safe to do so. Of course, the situation is highly variable and changes rapidly, hence re-closures of airports with little or no notice.

Dividing the airspace into "safe", "caution", and "no-fly" makes some sense as long as serious observation and sampling continues and you keep political and financial pressures from fucking up the decision making process. Can Europe actualy do that? I don't know. I sure hope it can, though, for the sake of travelers.

The Eylafjallajökull is now erupting more conventional lava and throwing ash only 2-3 km into the atmosphere and there have been earthquakes around the area, signaling a change in the eruption cycle.

It would be a good thing for the ash problem to diminish. However, as of 5:30 Chicago time the TV news is reporting yet another outpouring of ash. Apparently it's not certain how much, or how much effect it will have, but it seems the UK is preparing to shut down British airspace again.

The news also reports that Spain is offering to be a major airline hub for Europe, which I think is the US news' mangled way of saying they're ramping up capacity to accomodate more flights from elsewhere. Presumably, they're also increasing buses, trains, etc. to move people from Spain to other destinations.

Onj a personal level, we've already written the holiday in Rome off as a total loss

I'm sorry to hear that. But at least you are at home and not stuck somewhere else. "Disappointed but safe" is not the worst fate.

[Ekiqa]

Do Brits in Spain not realise that railways exist? Do the majority of Europeans stuck in other European countries not realise railways exist? The German Chancellor cancelled her appearance at the Polish President's funeral due to the ash cloud. Idiocy, when trains exist.

There shouldn't be any internal travel disruptions in Britain due to its small size. People need to stop freaking out.

And there are ferries from Britain to the continent, and the Channel Tunnel. No one is stuck on the mainland. Using the navy is a huge waste of money. And future maintanence troubles as most of the ships are gas turbine powered.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Do Brits in Spain not realise that railways exist? Do the majority of Europeans stuck in other European countries not realise railways exist? The German Chancellor cancelled her appearance at the Polish President's funeral due to the ash cloud. Idiocy, when trains exist.

There shouldn't be any internal travel disruptions in Britain due to its small size. People need to stop freaking out.

And there are ferries from Britain to the continent, and the Channel Tunnel. No one is stuck on the mainland. Using the navy is a huge waste of money. And future maintanence troubles as most of the ships are gas turbine powered.

This would be a good point, were people not already doing that to the extent that public transport is oversaturated.

You think the MoD is sending two carriers and an LPD because they realise people are too stupid to consider alternatives to air travel? Not even I'm that cynical.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Limbaugh says the volcano is God's punishment for the voting in of the healthcare reform. Apparently, a) the only entity of any importance on the planet is the USA; b) God deems it such a large target, he goes and... sandblasts the complete wrong continent; c) Rush has one powerful transmitter over there in Costa Rica.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I give Limbaugh's statement as much credence as Danny Glover's claims that the Haiti quake was because we weren't doing enough about global warming.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Do Brits in Spain not realise that railways exist? Do the majority of Europeans stuck in other European countries not realise railways exist? The German Chancellor cancelled her appearance at the Polish President's funeral due to the ash cloud. Idiocy, when trains exist.

There shouldn't be any internal travel disruptions in Britain due to its small size. People need to stop freaking out.

And there are ferries from Britain to the continent, and the Channel Tunnel. No one is stuck on the mainland. Using the navy is a huge waste of money. And future maintanence troubles as most of the ships are gas turbine powered.

Would it really have been decent of her to shutdown traffic on a major and oversaturated rail line for a substantial length of time to let a special train pass through with the requisite security measures, simply to go see a dead guy get put in a piece of stone?

[eion]

The German Chancellor cancelled her appearance at the Polish President's funeral due to the ash cloud. Idiocy, when trains exist.

Not to pile on, but this is why we have ambassadors in the first place.

[Teebs]

Do Brits in Spain not realise that railways exist? Do the majority of Europeans stuck in other European countries not realise railways exist? The German Chancellor cancelled her appearance at the Polish President's funeral due to the ash cloud. Idiocy, when trains exist.

There shouldn't be any internal travel disruptions in Britain due to its small size. People need to stop freaking out.

And there are ferries from Britain to the continent, and the Channel Tunnel. No one is stuck on the mainland. Using the navy is a huge waste of money. And future maintanence troubles as most of the ships are gas turbine powered.

I had a friend who was stuck in Spain until he took a 36 hour coach journey back to the UK, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. I asked him why he didn't go by train and he said that train tickets couldn't be had for love or money. There's a definite limit on railway capacity simply because of lines and rolling stock, presumably this is completely used up by people shifting from air travel.

[Phantasee]

The German Chancellor cancelled her appearance at the Polish President's funeral due to the ash cloud. Idiocy, when trains exist.

Not to pile on, but this is why we have ambassadors in the first place.

Isn't that how th deaths of heads of state were handled before air travel? The huge crowds of kings and presidents and prime ministers at Nixons, Reagans, and Fords funeral were very strange to me. All I could think was, what a fat target.

[eion]

The German Chancellor cancelled her appearance at the Polish President's funeral due to the ash cloud. Idiocy, when trains exist.

Not to pile on, but this is why we have ambassadors in the first place.

Isn't that how th deaths of heads of state were handled before air travel? The huge crowds of kings and presidents and prime ministers at Nixons, Reagans, and Fords funeral were very strange to me. All I could think was, what a fat target.

Exactly. Before Jet travel it would be unheard of for a Head of State to fly halfway around the world for a day for any reason, even the death of another Head of State, but now we somehow expect the President will fly to China for the day and fly back that night because he has the means to do it. It should be seen as a convenience and a courtesy, but certainly not a requirement.

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that Heads of State know each other on a more personal level than in the past, but I just wonder if at some point we'll be complaining that the President didn't take Star Force One to Lunar City to dedicate the new Fuel Depot, after all it's only a two-hour flight.

[Broomstick]

Given the disruption that a traveling head of state can cause, on top of the unprecedented travel disruption already occuring, there is a lot of room to argue that heads of state NOT going to such a funeral is the best course overall.

[folti78]

Merkel misses Kaczynski funeral but Westerwelle takes helicopter

Published: 18 Apr 10 12:12 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100418-26617.html

Chancellor Angela Merkel has cancelled her planned trip to Poland to attend Sunday’s funeral service for President Lech Kaczynski and his wife Maria.

Merkel’s travel plans were ruined by the flight ban over most of Europe, which forced her to land in Portugal on her return from a trip to the USA. She then flew to Rome and has been making her way back to Germany by road for most of the weekend.

But German President Horst Köhler, Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle and even 23 string musicians from the Berliner Philharmonic Orchestra as well as conductor Sir Simon Rattle managed to get to Krakow for the service.

They took helicopters from Berlin – along with their smaller instruments, while the larger ones such as double basses were sent to Poland on Friday in a minibus.

The musicians were due to play Richard Strauss’ Metamorphosen as a sign of solidarity with the Poles.

Thousands gathered in Krakow over the weekend to pay their respects to their dead president and his wife who will be buried in the Wawel cathedral next to Polish national heroes.

The decision to bury them there is a controversial one, with some suggesting that the honour is undeserved.

US President Barack Obama could not make it to the funeral due to the flight ban, which also prevented the arrival of French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Austrian President Heinz Fischer, EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and President of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy.

Sweden’s King Carl Gustav, Spain’s King Juan Carlos and Britain’s Prince Charles also cancelled, as did Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Zapatero.

Russia’s president Dmitri Medvedev made it to the funeral.

Kaczynski, his wife and more than 90 others died last week when a plane taking them to a commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre – when the Soviet secret services killed 22,000 Polish officers - crashed in Russia.


DPA/The Local (news@thelocal.de)

Relevant part about Merkel's troubles underscored. More detailedly, she spent Friday night in Lisbon, flew to Rome, then started to travel by car, spending Saturday night in Bolzano near the Austrian border. Gee who thought that cars are waaay slower than planes? Especially if your security people are not too keen on travelling through the Alps during the night...

Broomstick, as far as I know, most of the proper research about the ash clouds movement is hampered by the lack of dedicated research equipment (esp. aircraft) in the affected countries. Only one research flight in UK have been made last Friday (BBC video, article) and one made yesterday by the German Aerospace Center agency (German article).

[Simon_Jester]

Would it really have been decent of her to shutdown traffic on a major and oversaturated rail line for a substantial length of time to let a special train pass through with the requisite security measures, simply to go see a dead guy get put in a piece of stone?

Is this a problem with the extent of the security measures, or the idea of the Chancellor taking the train?

[Edi]

Broomstick, the German airport you're thinking about is probably Frankfurt am Main.

Probably - when I hear "Frankfurt" my first thought is a small suburb of Chicago, not a city in Germany, so that's probably one reason I get thrown off with that one.

Probably half the places in the US are named directly after the place where the settlers came from, or with the prefix "New" tagged to the front, so not surprised at all to find a Frankfurt there. Anyone from Europe will instantly think of Frankfurt, Germany, though a lot fewer know that there are two of them, Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder. Frankfurt am Main is the larger of the two at nearly 670 thousand people vs less than 70 thousand for the other. It's the seat of the ECB and is the largest financial center in continental Europe as well as one of the largest transport hubs for both air and land trffic.

The IATA reps are being more reasonable, but it's still fucking wishful thinking and shortsightedness if their planes end up needing engine replacements (or plane replacements, as it were).

True. However, a more nuanced approach to flight restrictions might be warranted. The UK does seem to be keeping a close eye on things and allowing flights when it seems safe to do so. Of course, the situation is highly variable and changes rapidly, hence re-closures of airports with little or no notice.

Dividing the airspace into "safe", "caution", and "no-fly" makes some sense as long as serious observation and sampling continues and you keep political and financial pressures from fucking up the decision making process. Can Europe actualy do that? I don't know. I sure hope it can, though, for the sake of travelers.

The IATA position is actually less reasonable when you take a look at the whole context rather than just some interviews, but no surprise there. Europe is already doing the differentiation and that's why some places are partially open, some are entirely closed and some places have no restrictions. There are plans to codify a continent wide system exactly along those lines and they can probably get it on line pretty fast.

The Eylafjallajökull is now erupting more conventional lava and throwing ash only 2-3 km into the atmosphere and there have been earthquakes around the area, signaling a change in the eruption cycle.

It would be a good thing for the ash problem to diminish. However, as of 5:30 Chicago time the TV news is reporting yet another outpouring of ash. Apparently it's not certain how much, or how much effect it will have, but it seems the UK is preparing to shut down British airspace again.

It's so early into the eruption cycle that anything can still happen. This morning's newspaper recommended not making any air travel plans for the next month at least and given past precedent, could be things get fucked up for a long time.

The news also reports that Spain is offering to be a major airline hub for Europe, which I think is the US news' mangled way of saying they're ramping up capacity to accomodate more flights from elsewhere. Presumably, they're also increasing buses, trains, etc. to move people from Spain to other destinations.

Yep, they're doing that. Once the immediate glut of stranded people clears up, I expect that land transport all over Europe is going to get a huge upsurge compared to normal. At least for the duration of the eruption. Right now for example Finnair is arranging transportation by boat to Tallinn and from Tallinn to Berlin by train and then the travelers are on their own.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yay profit over rational thought! I wonder if we learned anything from Challenger. Guess not.

At some point do they really have a choice? I mean, maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but the economy isn't in great shape as it is. The last time this Volcano went off it was apparently for two years or so. I'm thinking of another economic crash.

[CaptainChewbacca]

So, according to latest reports the volcano is releasing another massive blast of ash and debris at least as powerful as the first.

And... its gonna get interesting.