Volcanic eruption closes down UK/Scandinavian airports

[eion]

I can see it now, "Take the train, it's volcano-proof!"

"Why get trapped overseas for months at a time when you can be sailing the seas! New York to Dover in just 5 days!"

[UnderAGreySky]

A professor of mine was stuck in Abuja. And he has to make it back to the UK by the first week of May (originally scheduled to take the flight out on Saturday).

Now he's doing Abuja - Lagos - Dakar - Casablanca - Rome - uh.... "We'll see" is what his text said.

[CaptainChewbacca]

When this volcano erupted in the 19th century it lasted for two years. What do you think will happen if a plane can't land in London between now and 2012?

As a silly aside, I know in Stuart's Armageddon fic, planes were retrofitted to fly in heavy ash clouds. Its that actually possible to do with a commercial airliner?

[UnderAGreySky]

For one, Chewie, the Eurotunnel folks will be making tonnes of money. As will the ferries at Dover. More than that, I can see the influx of international (non-European) students dropping because they're not going to bother coming over with bags and baggage hopping through Spain and then taking trains and such. The US will get most of 'em and Aus/NZ will mop up the rest.

The 2012 Olympics are fucked too. London depends so much on people and financial stuff happening from overseas, that people will just skip the country. Switzerland? Dubai? Seoul? Tokyo? Those will start taking over.

They'll adapt, of course... I can imagine my university (whose professors and aircraft were already up there taking samples) taking steps to make new designs. But a 6-month disruption could leave nasty scars.

[Sephirius]

Would anything like the Caspian Sea Monster help? British Airways, now with Ekranoplans!

[Admiral Valdemar]

When this volcano erupted in the 19th century it lasted for two years. What do you think will happen if a plane can't land in London between now and 2012?

As a silly aside, I know in Stuart's Armageddon fic, planes were retrofitted to fly in heavy ash clouds. Its that actually possible to do with a commercial airliner?

No, there is no way to protect an engine of any kind against ash. It'd be like asking if there was a way to protect a car against driving through pyroclastic flow.

If this, or Katla, carry on for months, then either we'll have many airliner accidents or maintenance issues, a screwed recovery and a whole new transport paradigm.

As an aside, I already mentioned the WIGs would be ideal here.

[Broomstick]

Broomstick, the German airport you're thinking about is probably Frankfurt am Main.

Probably - when I hear "Frankfurt" my first thought is a small suburb of Chicago, not a city in Germany, so that's probably one reason I get thrown off with that one.

Probably half the places in the US are named directly after the place where the settlers came from, or with the prefix "New" tagged to the front, so not surprised at all to find a Frankfurt there.

It's worse than that, actually - Frankfurt (along with variant spellings like "Frankfort") is a very common town/city name in the US. If they're not named after the city in Germany they named after a town back in the US that was named after the German city. Certain city names in the US are almost always spoken [town name]+[state name] because there are so many of them you just have to make the distinction.

Europe is already doing the differentiation and that's why some places are partially open, some are entirely closed and some places have no restrictions. There are plans to codify a continent wide system exactly along those lines and they can probably get it on line pretty fast.

That's good news, then, although setting such a system up on the fly can be nerve-wracking as the penalty for wrong decisions in aviation can be very high. The good news is that it will set a precedent for when (not if, but when) this happens again somewhere else in the world.

Yay profit over rational thought! I wonder if we learned anything from Challenger. Guess not.

At some point do they really have a choice? I mean, maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but the economy isn't in great shape as it is. The last time this Volcano went off it was apparently for two years or so. I'm thinking of another economic crash.

Yes, another economic crash is a real possibility. On the other hand, you don't want to turn air travel into Russian roulette. Sometimes there is not a good answer or solution to a problem. We're all getting a hefty reminder that mankind is NOT in control of everything.

Broomstick, as far as I know, most of the proper research about the ash clouds movement is hampered by the lack of dedicated research equipment (esp. aircraft) in the affected countries. Only one research flight in UK have been made last Friday (BBC video, article) and one made yesterday by the German Aerospace Center agency (German article).

Well, the problem is that there aren't any aircraft that do well in ash clouds. None Every time you send an aircraft up to look at a volcanic ash cloud you risk losing it. Doesn't matter if it's a piston or a jet engine, ash is very, very bad for it. There is also the problem that volcanic ash fucks up the windows. This seems to be glossed over or ignored by the news media but even if you're engine is working at some point you really need to be able to see outside the airplane in order to land it.

I can come up with some possible solutions. We could, for example, use remote control drones with electric engines that could be sealed away from ash. The range of the drones would be limited, but for sending something up to sample the air over a location that is probably quite feasible today. They could be GPS guided, and the operator could land it by viewing it externally. Basically, a scaled up model of the electric planes I've been flying the past couple years (MUCH scaled up - my main electric plane only weighs 30 grams). Most likely, though, such drones do not exist yet. They could probably be built with off the shelf parts, though.

When this volcano erupted in the 19th century it lasted for two years. What do you think will happen if a plane can't land in London between now and 2012?

The people next to Heathrow will stop complaining about noise?

More seriously - the European economy will take a major hit. Countries that depend on fast transit of imports to Europe will take a major economic hit. Some airlines will go under

As a silly aside, I know in Stuart's Armageddon fic, planes were retrofitted to fly in heavy ash clouds. Its that actually possible to do with a commercial airliner?

Not at this time.

Anything that would act as a screen to keep out the ash would also significantly impede airflow, leading to problems with engine efficiency and cooling. In addition, it's not well known but the engines also drive the air systems for the people on board - heating cold air, pressurizing it, air filters... ash clogging a jet airplane engine also fucks up the air in the pressure vessel for the people on board, and any scheme that reduces airflow through the engine also reduces the efficiency of the air system for people. The big difference is that there is ample air for the people inside the airplane (at least for a time) so the engines get choked off before those on board, but people going through ash clouds in the past have noted a definite decline in cabin air quality, and if you had ash filters reducing engine air flow the interior air quality might well be noticeably icky.

Is it inherently impossible to produce some sort of ash filter that doesn't totally compromise engine efficiency that is also durable enough to stand up to the rigors of flight? I don't know, but even if it is, the technology doesn't exist. Even if invented, making it practical for widespread use in two years (the potential length of eruption being bandied about) is improbable.

I'd argue we're better off building/retrofitting ships for passenger carriage over the oceans. We have that technology already, along with considerable past experience in doing it.

I've spent much time mulling over the fact that part of our current problem is our culture's overwhelming drive towards "efficiency". We latched on air travel as the most efficient way to move people rapidly around the world (which it is, even if it's not efficient by other measures) and then let the other transportation modes wither away. Redundancy is not efficient. Redundancy, however, saves your ass when the shit hits the fan. If we had maintained ocean passenger travel to a greater degree this would not be nearly as disruptive. However, I don't see, given the way the world is, any way that would have happened.

[UnderAGreySky]

Another thing I thought of... if this lasts, we'll see a couple of interesting things. Spain will pull out from its troubles much faster than expected. I foresee high-speed catamarans from Southampton / Bournemouth to Santander, and maybe even opening up the runways at those places (if not building all new ones) to fly passengers east and west.

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There's a pilot training school at my uni here, and I was speaking to one of the trainees. Only VFR is allowed right now for general aviation aircraft. So he is grounded as he was supposed to be doing IFR training. Two days back students who were in the air practising VFR could smell sulphur in the cabin as low as 4,500 feet. A hasty descent and landing was initiated, followed by a thorough inspection of the internals. They're being very, very watchful.

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I'd like the Erkanoplans to come back too. That would make life more fun

[Sarevok]

Iceland is like in middle of nowhere inside the Atlantic ocean. How come they are grounding flights several thousand miles away in Europe ? Last I checked the skies of Paris do not resemble Mordor yet.

[Ace Pace]

Iceland is like in middle of nowhere inside the Atlantic ocean. How come they are grounding flights several thousand miles away in Europe ? Last I checked the skies of Paris do not resemble Mordor yet.

Because clearly, ash must be thick and visible to cause damage to finely tuned machinery at high altitudes.

[Isolder74]

Iceland is like in middle of nowhere inside the Atlantic ocean. How come they are grounding flights several thousand miles away in Europe ? Last I checked the skies of Paris do not resemble Mordor yet.

Because the Icelandic Volcano is putting out lots of gunk making the air over Paris contaminated enough to be a concern. Why does it have resemble Mordor before it can potentially be a problem?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Jesus Christ, do they not have wind where you live, Sarevok?

[UnderAGreySky]

Iceland is like in middle of nowhere inside the Atlantic ocean. How come they are grounding flights several thousand miles away in Europe ? Last I checked the skies of Paris do not resemble Mordor yet.

Allow me to pile on what others have said in a graphical form (:D):



To be fair, I have been getting the same question. We've had unusually sunny days and the next FIVE days have been predicted to be clear. Ten straight clear days in the UK? Even under normal circumstances that is shocking, but when we're supposed to be under a life-and-plane-threatening cloud of 'ash' people get more bewildered.

The thing is, the layer is not dense, per se. Plus, the particles on an average are glassy, not opaque. So light comes through quite easily, unlike the normal smoke-and-ash volcanic clouds.

[Dartzap]

We actually got some cloud today for the first time in 5 days. They were a bit whispy, though.

My family remains in Spain - they were unable to get to Santander as it was vastly too expensive to get that far, so remain in Madrid. They might as well just return to Andalusia and stay with my uncle a bit longer, would make more sense than paying thousands of pounds for whatever accommodation remains.

Time to start mass building hovercraft I feel, quick as anything, look cool and ensure anyone with sea sickness never leaves land

[Admiral Valdemar]

I just saw a BAe 146 fly over at barely 3,000 ft, but it's not on flightradar24.com. It must be well below the radar LOS.

[Dartzap]

I just saw a BAe 146 fly over at barely 3,000 ft, but it's not on flightradar24.com. It must be well below the radar LOS.

Which airport would that have been coming from then? I suppose it might be a test flight.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It was heading NNW, from what I could tell. No idea where it could have come from, maybe Stansted, but it could be anywhere if they were doing some course around the home counties for testing ash effects.

[Dartzap]

It was heading NNW, from what I could tell. No idea where it could have come from, maybe Stansted, but it could be anywhere if they were doing some course around the home counties for testing ash effects.

Watching News24 at the mo, looks BA are pulling a stunt with some flights heading to Heathrow, against the wishes of NATS

[Admiral Valdemar]

Wow. I hope their engines rot.

[folti78]

Iceland is like in middle of nowhere inside the Atlantic ocean. How come they are grounding flights several thousand miles away in Europe ? Last I checked the skies of Paris do not resemble Mordor yet.

Rhenish Institute for Environmental Research at the University of Cologne (RIU)'s flash videos of the history of the ash cloud movements, since April 14.

[Broomstick]

I finally re-found an image that I think will illustrate some of the problems of flying through gritty air.

This is a propeller blade on a relatively low-speed prop. Originally, it was entirely black on the side facing the camera, but it is no longer. The silvery portion is where friction with the air has eroded away the surface coating and the metal beneath. This is a result of passage through NORMAL, CLEAR AIR. Nothing bad has happened to this prop, this is not unusual wear, this is just was a steady stream of air molecules and normal bits of dust do to a prop:


OK - now imagine the damage that air filled with sharp, abrasive particles will do to airplane parts.

THAT is why there is so much concern about flying airplanes through ash. It's not JUST the engines you have to worry about, it's wear and tear on ALL parts of the airplane. Remember, this is what clean air does to a slow speed prop traveling through it. Any increase in speed will increase the damage.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Matters not. The UK is open for business again, as of 2200 BST. Five minutes ago.

[Hillary]

All UK airports now open according to BBC news.

[Sky Captain]

Could some sort of super hard coating on most vulnerable engine parts help to reduce the wear? Suppose volcano continues to spew ash causing continuous pollution of airspace. Not enough concentration to cause immediate danger by clogging and stopping the engines, but enough to seriously reduce time between major engine overhauls. Are there any solutions that could be applied to make engines more resistant to dusty air?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Could some sort of super hard coating on most vulnerable engine parts help to reduce the wear? Suppose volcano continues to spew ash causing continuous pollution of airspace. Not enough concentration to cause immediate danger by clogging and stopping the engines, but enough to seriously reduce time between major engine overhauls. Are there any solutions that could be applied to make engines more resistant to dusty air?

No, because the engine would still suffer clogging of the air pores within turbine blades, the fuel injector nozzles and deposits on the vanes and compressor mechanisms deeper within as the particles are basically cooked. The only way you can avoid intense engine wear or systemic problems with the engines is to avoid ash altogether. None of the major problems are caused by abrasion, unless it is regarding the windscreen.

There's a good excerpt from this week's Bang Goes The Theory showing the problems.