An SDNW Proposal

[Teleros]

Doesn't really need to be mentioned at all IMHO. Go back a few pages to read by proposal - Earth's out there, and doing very well for itself too, but it hardly concerns us players (unless the mods need an in-universe stick to beat someone with I suppose ).

[DarthShady]

THe Imperium of Man proclaims a Great Crusade against Foul Xenos!

Do note however that Shroom won't be the only foul Xeno out there.

I'm thinking of leading a race of alien robots, ruled by an evil advanced AI, or perhaps several of them - I need to give it some thought.

So, in this scenario, what would Earth's status be? Neutral ground? One among equals? The "superpower hand of Mod"? Or... destroyed, which is why we all left, a la Firefly?

I like destroyed the most. That way there is no arguing over who gets it, or what it does if it is an NPC.

[Coyote]

Hmmm... so, a quasi-Firefly historical background...

A neo-Battlestar Galactica style point-to-point FTL backed up by fixed jump gates like Babylon-5...

And everyone gest a handful of planets, with at least one major capitol planet and a collection of supporting planets from "developed" to "colony" radiating outward (again, sort of like Firefly just with a system for reach player).

Alien races and planets would be allowed. (I'd like to lay first dibs on "Pandora" of Avatar for plot ideas, plus I'm one of those people learning Na'vi [ ] ).

Is that the general gist so far?

[PeZook]

You know, guys, we should totally tie the setting into SDNW2.

For a more relevant comment, I always thought part of the appeal of the original two SDNWs was the fact casual players could use the plethora of real-world sources to build their militaries and nations, and the fact it was placed in near-modern times meant they could easily imagine the interactions and attitudes present in the world. It fell inside the "comfor zone", so to speak.

Just my two cents: I am of the opinion that the setting should be similar to "modern times, in space!" rather than "generic sci-fi 733826351", so that people have some grounding in reality. For example, they can expect diplomatic protocol and institutions to be similar enough so that they don't end up insulting a diplomat from Fomalhaut V by not providing 82 young virgins for him to deflower upon arrival.

I hope I'm not rambling too much and that the post was coherent enough to be of use.

[Teleros]

Is that the general gist so far?

I'd agree, but instead of point-to-point FTL travel I'd have more traditional hyperspace or something. I want people to be able to detect the approach of my monster fleet o' doom several hours out, and know they're screwed . Think Honor Harrington rather than nBSG.

PeZook - if the Fomalhaut V ambassador expects 82 young virgins upon arrival he should have some minor aide of his call ahead to make sure it's all ready for him. If not... oh well, not our fault was it?

[Shroom Man 777]

Again, my race will be psychopathic ultramilitant bears. Shady, how about being a bunch of fuck ugly bug aliens who reproduce unnaturally fast?

[Coyote]

Actually, an idea might be that Earth was destroyed by an invasion of alien "Bugs", Klendathu-style aliens. So Earth is there, it has just become enemy-occupied territory.

And, no reason we couldn't mix-n-match. Klendathu bugs plus, say, Chtorran biological infestation as responsible for Earth's downfall...

[Ryan Thunder]

Or "Earth" is SDNW2 "Earth" and Miratia blew it up because they foolishly asked MADNESS to experiment with free energy devices.

[Teleros]

I still say just ignore Earth. Players' nations are somewhere out there in space. Having Earth in there at all is a rather big distraction I think.

[Siege]

Just my two cents: I am of the opinion that the setting should be similar to "modern times, in space!" rather than "generic sci-fi 733826351", so that people have some grounding in reality. For example, they can expect diplomatic protocol and institutions to be similar enough so that they don't end up insulting a diplomat from Fomalhaut V by not providing 82 young virgins for him to deflower upon arrival.

This is a good point, and I agree with Teleros' solution: if your alien diplomats expect certain peculiar bizarrities, you better say so up front so people can anticipate them. Otherwise I'm assuming protocols etc. will be more or less the same as they are today.

Actually, an idea might be that Earth was destroyed by an invasion of alien "Bugs", Klendathu-style aliens. So Earth is there, it has just become enemy-occupied territory.

Doesn't really work for me personally. Plus, it'll just give all the rabid xenophobes more reason to hate the aliens, who are quite likely going to be the minority already. So yeah, I don't think this is a very good idea. I prefer we either don't mention Earth or just state that it's "lost" or whatever and keep it at that.

[Shroom Man 777]

Make it SDNW1 Earth, irradiated by the Super Shep-Stas-Skimmer Slaughterfest!

[PeZook]

Brain-fuck! Remember the Straylight? What if it found not Real Earth, but SDNW1 one? The one slowly dying of radiation poisoning?

[Ryan Thunder]

Brain-fuck! Remember the Straylight? What if it found not Real Earth, but SDNW1 one? The one slowly dying of radiation poisoning?

Well I suppose all that mental whinging about not being able to catch up with my family would be for naught.

[Coyote]

Hmmm, a story built on the ruins of a burned Earth from a previous story. I dig that.

Space Canissia!

[Siege]

Remember the Straylight? What if it found not Real Earth, but SDNW1 one? The one slowly dying of radiation poisoning?

That would be horrible. Imagine poor Lena, finally arriving at her destination aboard the Straylight... Only to find it a bombed-out ruin. Bah!

[Ryan Thunder]

You forgot about Miranda Moonbeam. I wonder what her reaction would be...

[Shroom Man 777]

A bombed out world that ALSO has a Shep(nuk)istan, a Shroomania, a PeZookia, and all the assorted peoples in it! Oh man! That's some grade-A Twilightzone shit!

@ RYAN:

Miranda Moonbeam crashed in Velaria. Though the story was uncontinued, I have it that she becomes warrior princess of a bunch of natives and Viking Zorian Japanorse converts, is found by Lord Moonbeam himself (who goes Great White Hunting on a zeppelin), and they lay claim to a land that happens to be the Lost Mines of King Shroomlomon, full of diamonds and gold and rubies and oil. Then they hunt down some dinosaurs.

While Alan Shroompard and Svetlana, in Mongolia Khitan spark a revolution and become KHAN ALAN!

[Steve]

Okay, A) aliens are fine, it was just one guy pondering complications, no need for vigorous opposition about a potential "No aliens" rule.

B) So far I was contemplating Earth to be one of two things: An in-universe Moderator Tool of Uber Ass-Kicking or the interstellar equivalent of Switzerland. It will be an NPC under control of the mods and only used as necessary.

C) I'm going for the system of a hyperspace network for common FTL and wormholes for near-instantaneous point-to-point transit as further strategic points. The hyperspace network essentially follows a kind of "Hyperspace topography"; following the network areas permits the most efficient hyperspace travel, with major junctions at various star systems being where the major hyperspace lines meet and connection. Off-network travel is possible but you lose overall speed and engine efficiency, so it's the kind of thing you do for special operations or smuggling or piracy.

Note that in this system I could add "rough hyperspace", places where hyperspace, save for a handful of "safe" lanes maybe, is atypically "rough" and very hard to travel through; the worlds in these areas - which could be given awesome names like the Badlands or the Outback - would generally be our pirate kingdoms and "fringe world yokels" regions with lots of opportunity for storyline plots with Space Pirates! and stuff.

The wormholes/warp points are there but they're generally rare and generally get reserved for special traffic, stuff that has to be shipped quickly or VIP transits, etc. Most normal interstellar trade is with hyperspace-drive ships.

PeZook: I actually was looking at SDNW2 for what I figured our setting should look like, with the caveat of not just making it "SDNW2 3000 AD" or what have you.

[Coyote]

So, 3 options for FTL, then:

1: point-to-point hyperspace lanes controlled by jump points/gates. Safe, instant, fixed entry & exit points.

2: ship-contained individual FTL drives. Slower, not as safe, but total freedom of movement.

3: wild, untamed & uncharted hyperspace lanes. Instant, unsafe, but secretive.

That it?

[Steve]

So, 3 options for FTL, then:

1: point-to-point hyperspace lanes controlled by jump points/gates. Safe, instant, fixed entry & exit points.

2: ship-contained individual FTL drives. Slower, not as safe, but total freedom of movement.

3: wild, untamed & uncharted hyperspace lanes. Instant, unsafe, but secretive.

That it?

Those are all the same drive. Everyone has hyperspace drives, basically. Hyperspace has a topography though... hrm... I'm not sure if a "highway infrastructure" or "ocean current" analogy would be better, but basically hyperspace has areas where movement is easy and requires less power (granting more speed), these lanes that also cross between larger galactic, and there are a number of junction areas where multiple hyperspace lanes meet (think of them as interstate exchanges, just without traffic jams).

If you leave this network, travel becomes slower. You get more "resistance" while in hyperspace, requiring you to put more power into going the same relative speed, like having to sail against a current. This isn't a major issue for, say, short interstellar trips (moving from one star system to another within a 5-10LY range off network because they have no connecting hyperspace lane might still be faster than trying to follow the lanes the long way around) but for longer travel - like between sectors - it increases time spent traveling, maybe doubling or even tripling it (3 days to cross territory it'd take 1 day to do otherwise).

Finally, there are the Hyperspace "Shoal" regions. Hyperspace here is difficult to traverse at all. Your speed slows to a relative crawl, we're talking taking a week to go the distance you'd spend half a day going in a nicer area, and if your hyperdrive is not well maintained it might very well fail and leave you stranded in interstellar space. There are some Lanes through the Shoal regions, but unlike others they are slim and might only number one or two through a Shoal Sector - just a way from one side of the Shoal Sector to the other - and unless there's a system in the path there's no reason at all to even come out of hyperspace.

There are also, possibly, some "quiet" lanes in the Shoals; they act like normal lanes but are even slimmer and hard to find, and usually don't connect to the main hyperspace lanes at all but just to one another in small bundles. They do, however, help one get around the systems in the Shoal Sectors and in and out of the Shoals to "general" hyperspace (the normal off-network type mentioned above). The people who know these lanes completely are highly valuable to those who live in these sectors, the majority of them being outlaws, bandits, pirates, and other assorted vermin of the spaceways. As such, the Shoal Regions will get colorful nicknames like "The Wildlands", "the Badlands", "the Outback", etc.

Now, on top of this, the proposal's out there for Warp Gates that allow instantaneous point-to-point travel, but they'd be generally rare and mostly used, I think, for people to do PC interactions for diplomacy (I honestly would only have them, effectively, to facilitate the summits and PC meetings that made SDNW2 go at times, though in practice they'd also get special commerce traffic and such). The Warp Gates or Wormholes or what have you would be completely different from the Hyperspace systems; they just exist in tandem.

[Teleros]

B) So far I was contemplating Earth to be one of two things: An in-universe Moderator Tool of Uber Ass-Kicking or the interstellar equivalent of Switzerland. It will be an NPC under control of the mods and only used as necessary.

Go for uber-ass-kicking IMHO. Space Switzerland can still be nuked after all .

wormholes for near-instantaneous point-to-point transit as further strategic points.

Sounds fine here.

The hyperspace network essentially follows a kind of "Hyperspace topography"; following the network areas permits the most efficient hyperspace travel, with major junctions at various star systems being where the major hyperspace lines meet and connection. Off-network travel is possible but you lose overall speed and engine efficiency, so it's the kind of thing you do for special operations or smuggling or piracy.

I'd rather something more free-form myself. To use a few strategy games as comparisons, in Master of Orion 2 you could go from A to Z, with only things like black holes stopping you. In other games you have to follow certain routes to get from A to B to C etc. A system more like MoO2 would I think allow for more interactions directly between players. A sprinkling of spatial anomalies of the week (or fancy tech) could block certain routes if needed.

Note that in this system I could add "rough hyperspace", places where hyperspace, save for a handful of "safe" lanes maybe, is atypically "rough" and very hard to travel through; the worlds in these areas - which could be given awesome names like the Badlands or the Outback - would generally be our pirate kingdoms and "fringe world yokels" regions with lots of opportunity for storyline plots with Space Pirates! and stuff.

You'd expect space pirates to be based near major shipping routes and the like if at all possible, which I think would be easier with a free-form hyperspace system. Pirate bases could be anywhere within a pretty large region of space, rather than in the three systems that are best connected to the main Shroomanian-ThanasBot trade route.

The wormholes/warp points are there but they're generally rare and generally get reserved for special traffic, stuff that has to be shipped quickly or VIP transits, etc. Most normal interstellar trade is with hyperspace-drive ships.

Depends on how they work I suppose. Honorverse wormholes can only handle so much mass in one go before needing some down time. I'd personally like to see the use of wormholes in interstellar trade, although I agree that they'd be rare.



Anyway, a brief overview of my lot...

Altacar Empire
The Altacar Empire is a rich, self-confident power, known in the region for its stability, long-term outlook and extensive interstellar trading network. Given its trading interests the Empire generally prefers peace to war, and is generally happy to act as a neutral go-between in regional conflicts (whilst selling stuff to all involved, naturally). When it has to involve itself in larger conflicts, it prefers to provide industrial and financial support to its allies rather than get involved directly, enabling it to use its navy for commerce protection / raiding and defence. That said it is a vociferous opponent of piracy and privateering, and its navy is primarily geared towards defeating pirates and the like, and not for major conflicts.

Politically, it is a constitutional monarchy dominated by three parties, the Liberals (currently in power), Conservatives, and Imperialists, under Queen Alexandra II. The Liberals have formed the current government (coalitions are very rare). The political culture is perhaps best described as "classical liberal". Economically, the Altacar Empire does a lot of shipbuilding and interstellar trade as the paragraph above highlights. As a result its starship technology is also pretty good, particularly when it comes to hyperdrives.

As far as in-game stuff goes, WTB lots of trade agreements with everyone, and anything that can help get my precious merchantmen to and from their destinations. I'm also thinking of having just a few, well-developed worlds in a nice central location for trade purposes.

Obviously it's only a short thing ATM, I need those trade agreements & rules and whatnot sorted out before I can start posting pages & pages of stuff .

[PeZook]

Remember the Straylight? What if it found not Real Earth, but SDNW1 one? The one slowly dying of radiation poisoning?

That would be horrible. Imagine poor Lena, finally arriving at her destination aboard the Straylight... Only to find it a bombed-out ruin. Bah!

Yeah...man, it would totally ruin the positive outlook of the endgame (plus I claimed we located Earth because some of us nerds knew roughly where to look, so it would be a giant plot hole).

Yeah, fuck it. We can always find SDNW1 Earth on our own

[DarthShady]

Again, my race will be psychopathic ultramilitant bears. Shady, how about being a bunch of fuck ugly bug aliens who reproduce unnaturally fast?

Bears? Hahaha Awesome.

Bug aliens sounds interesting, THE SWARM! I Could Zerg Rush Fin.

Could be fun.

[Sea Skimmer]

B) So far I was contemplating Earth to be one of two things: An in-universe Moderator Tool of Uber Ass-Kicking or the interstellar equivalent of Switzerland. It will be an NPC under control of the mods and only used as necessary.

Whatever it is, it should only be controlled by one player. Splitting worlds with interstellar empires is just going to cause trouble and doesn’t really make sense. We can just set the story far enough in the future (the date need not correlate with any specific technology expectations) that humanity has already spread around as much as other players require it.

Now, on top of this, the proposal's out there for Warp Gates that allow instantaneous point-to-point travel, but they'd be generally rare and mostly used, I think, for people to do PC interactions for diplomacy (I honestly would only have them, effectively, to facilitate the summits and PC meetings that made SDNW2 go at times, though in practice they'd also get special commerce traffic and such). The Warp Gates or Wormholes or what have you would be completely different from the Hyperspace systems; they just exist in tandem.

Does that mean an actual mass-time limit then? As in you cannot just suddenly decide to expedite a battlecruiser a second through one matter what?

Edit: As another idea I just had, how about the transportable mass is unlimited, but the higher the mass sent the slower it goes because of limited acceleration energy

So communications are instantaneous, and a person in a pod can make the passage in seconds or minutes, but as objects get larger it takes minutes and then hours and days until eventually if you wanted to send a large ship, it’d be no faster then normal hyperspace.

This would then mean that no only can new wormholes/jump points or whatever be discovered, but ways might be found to slowly improve existing ones. Like some of those hyperspace souls are dredged away.

[Steve]

Whatever it is, it should only be controlled by one player. Splitting worlds with interstellar empires is just going to cause trouble and doesn’t really make sense. We can just set the story far enough in the future (the date need not correlate with any specific technology expectations) that humanity has already spread around as much as other players require it.

I wasn't intending for worlds to be split among interstellar states (some worlds in the boonies might not be unified though). Everything you've said is pretty much what I had in mind.

Does that mean an actual mass-time limit then? As in you cannot just suddenly decide to expedite a battlecruiser a second through one matter what?

Edit: As another idea I just had, how about the transportable mass is unlimited, but the higher the mass sent the slower it goes because of limited acceleration energy

So communications are instantaneous, and a person in a pod can make the passage in seconds or minutes, but as objects get larger it takes minutes and then hours and days until eventually if you wanted to send a large ship, it’d be no faster then normal hyperspace.

This would then mean that no only can new wormholes/jump points or whatever be discovered, but ways might be found to slowly improve existing ones. Like some of those hyperspace souls are dredged away.

With Warp Gates I'd prefer just saying there's a mass limit so that nothing larger than a light cruiser can feasibly transit. They're used primarily for high cost transits: liners with high ticket prices that effectively limit their clientele to the wealthy, extremely valuable cargoes that have to be moved quickly, government officials and leaders on the way to key summit talks, etc.

As for the idea of "dredging" hyperspace, it is something to consider for potential technology. Another thing is the idea of using supernovae or events like that to cause shifts in hyperspace topography, shifting the exact interstellar position of lanes and such.