A rather surprising poll...

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The Romulan Republic
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A rather surprising poll...

Post by The Romulan Republic »

http://unlikelyvoter.com/2010/04/14/ras ... -ron-paul/
Rasmussen polls Ron Paul
By Neil Stevens on April 14, 2010

Rasmussen took a special poll of one particular matchup possibility in the 2012 Presidential race. He looked at Ron Paul against Barack Obama and, surprise, Paul runs very well, trailing the incumbent President 41-42.

How can this be, when Paul was rejected so soundly in the Republican primaries just two years ago? Reading the poll, I’m left to wonder if it was written and paid for by supporters of the Texas Republican.


My suspicion, based the particulars of the poll that I find, is that the poll has a subtle bias toward Ron Paul. There is no indication that the questions are rotated or altered in any way, so I will assume they were asked as listed of all those surveyed.

First off, an opinion is only asked of Ron Paul, and not of Barack Obama, and it is asked first. This will influence further questions, including the Obama v. Paul question. A way to poll this that’s more fair to the President would be to add a question asking for thoughts about Obama, and ask that one first half the time, while asking about Paul first the other half. This would negate the possible advantage Paul gets in the survey as asked.

Second, Ron Paul’s name is listed first in the head to head question. This also adds bias. Given a list of names people are more likely to select an earlier name than a later name, an effect that has been seen even in major general elections, which is why states like California randomize the ballot order.

I don’t even understand the point of the third question. The two choices given – that Ron Paul is either a divisive force or a new direction for the GOP – aren’t even mutually exclusive. In fact, one might expect the two traits to correlate well. I haven’t a clue how to interpret that question and its results in any meaningful way.

Lastly, we get to the fourth question, and the proposition is rejected that Ron Paul’s values reflect those of the broader Republican Party by a 27-19 margin, MoE 3. It’s 91% likely that the pool of likely voters agrees with this verdict, though of course the pool of likely voters also includes Democrats whose opinion of what Republican values are might differ from the opinion of Republican voters themselves. So again, I’m at a loss to understand the point of the question.

The entire poll seems driven by an agenda. Rasmussen doesn’t say, but my suspicion is that the poll was commissioned and driven by activists in favor of Ron Paul, with the results skewed as a result.

Tagged as: 2012, Barack Obama, Rasmussen Reports, Ron Paul
Obviously its a long way until the election and a lot could change. Someone else could win the GOP primary, or Obama's popularity could increase, or their could be more big Republican scandals. Obama might beat Paul badly in the Presidential debates. And of course, polls can be wrong. So its not time to panic yet, and this certainly isn't a clear indicator of what will happen in 2012.

But this was interesting, surprising, and frankly alarming enough that I thought I'd post it here.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Here's Rasmussen's own statement on the poll, since the article in the OP is rather biased against the poll (this article also seems a bit more substantial):

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... on_paul_41
Election 2012: Barack Obama 42%, Ron Paul 41%
Wednesday, April 14, 2010 Email to a Friend ShareThis
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Pit maverick Republican Congressman Ron Paul against President Obama in a hypothetical 2012 election match-up, and the race is – virtually dead even.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of likely voters finds Obama with 42% support and Paul with 41% of the vote. Eleven percent (11%) prefer some other candidate, and six percent (6%) are undecided.
Ask the Political Class, though, and it’s a blowout. While 58% of Mainstream voters favor Paul, 95% of the Political Class vote for Obama.
But Republican voters also have decidedly mixed feelings about Paul, who has been an outspoken critic of the party establishment.
Obama earns 79% support from Democrats, but Paul gets just 66% of GOP votes. Voters not affiliated with either major party give Paul a 47% to 28% edge over the president.
Paul, an anti-big government libertarian who engenders unusually strong feelings among his supporters, was an unsuccessful candidate for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. But he continues to have a solid following, especially in the growing Tea Party movement.
Twenty-four percent (24%) of voters now consider themselves a part of the Tea Party movement, an eight-point increase from a month ago. Another 10% say they are not a part of the movement but have close friends or family members who are.
(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.
Thirty-nine percent (39%) of all voters have a favorable opinion of Paul, while 30% view him unfavorably. This includes 10% with a very favorable opinion and 12% with a very unfavorable one. But nearly one-out-of-three voters (32%) are not sure what they think of Paul.
Perhaps tellingly, just 42% of Republican voters have a favorable view of him, including eight percent (8%) with a very favorable opinion. By comparison, 42% of unaffiliated voters regard him favorably, with 15% very favorable toward him.
Twenty-six percent (26%) of GOP voters think Paul shares the values of most Republican voters throughout the nation, but 25% disagree. Forty-nine percent (49%) are not sure.
Similarly, 27% of Republicans see Paul as a divisive force in the party, while 30% view him as a new direction for the GOP. Forty-two percent (42%) aren’t sure.
Among all voters, 19% say Paul shares the values of most Republican voters, and 27% disagree. Fifty-four percent (54%) are undecided.
Twenty-one percent (21%) of voters nationwide regard Paul as a divisive force in the GOP. Thirty-four percent (34%) say he is representative of a new direction for the party. Forty-five percent (45%) are not sure.
But it’s important to note than 75% of Republicans voters believe Republicans in Congress have lost touch with GOP voters throughout the nation over the past several years.
Sarah Palin, the former governor of Alaska and the GOP’s vice presidential nominee in 2008, is another Republican who has been bucking the party’s traditional leadership and was the keynote speaker at the recent Tea Party convention in Nashville. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Republican voters say Palin shares the values of most GOP voters throughout the nation. Just 18% of Republicans see Palin as a divisive force within the GOP.
Rasmussen Reports released survey findings yesterday that take a closer look at the political views of those who say they’re part of the Tea Party movement. Among other things, 96% of those in the movement think America is overtaxed, and 94% trust the judgment of the American people more than that of America’s political leaders.
When it comes to major issues confronting the nation, 48% of voters now say the average Tea Party member is closer to their views than Obama is. Forty-four percent (44%) hold the opposite view and believe the president’s views are closer to their own.
Fifty-two percent (52%) believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress. Thirty-five percent (35%) of voters now think Republicans and Democrats are so much alike that an entirely new political party is needed to represent the American people. Nearly half (47%) of voters disagree and say a new party is not needed
If the Tea Party was organized as a political party, 34% of voters would prefer a Democrat in a three-way congressional race. In that hypothetical match-up, the Republican gets 27% of the vote with the Tea Party hopeful in third at 21%. However, if only the Democrat or Republican had a real chance to win, most of the Tea Party supporters would vote for the Republican.
Please sign up for the Rasmussen Reports daily e-mail update (it’s free) or follow us on Twitter or Facebook. Let us keep you up to date with the latest public opinion news.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Cecelia5578 »

Just FYI Rasmussen tends to have the most GOP bias in their polls. I wouldn't worry about anything they publish.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200907070015

Super Genius of all Politics Nate Silver (yeah, I sometimes think he has too much of a cult following)has a good article about them

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/ ... iased.html

He almost appears too scrupulous in how he describes Rasmussen, trying to steer clear of allegations that they are biased in the first half, then details how they may be biased in the second half.

Anyways, just Google it, and you'll find them plenty controversial.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Einzige »

Despite my political leanings, I am absolutely opposed to any potential Ron Paul candidacy (in fact, my preferred candidate for the Republican nomination, and the only one who would have my vote, is former New Mexican governor Gary Johnson). Ron Paul does a fine job of speaking like a libertarian, but if we look at his stances on the issues - particularly gay rights and abortion - we see that he is possibly the farthest thing from one. He's nothing more than a lesser incarnation of Goldwaterism.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Duckie »

For any sane libertarian to get my vote, they'd have to be not a global warming-denying, anti-vaccine, new world order is coming conspiracy nut (Ron Paul loses here) and not make the hilariously arbitrary classical Right Libertarian choice of basing their economic policies on the assumption of property as some kind of sacred right to which no man may in any way infringe and the omniscience of free markets.

(To clarify, without the intention of diverting the thread into a libertarian shitthread, but to make that comment not inscrutable, while I do not believe modernized Georgeism is a viable method of government, at least they recognize the earth and thus in a smaller sense land is communal and thus make the first basic rule of property be that if you own property, you support the welfare of non-landowners (via land taxes) in that way. Their assertion that land taxes are the only fair way to tax and that governments could support themselves on that and that alone is more dubious to me, as are libertarian disdains for any type of dilution of the free market for control and correction of problems and handling of non-free-market amenable [generally critical, necessary] industries such as healthcare [or, for a less modernly charged idea, imagine if no matter what manufacturing reliable weapons were always a loss- you'd need the government to build weapons factories to supply their self-defense forces].)

So basically, any Libertarian I'd vote for would sadly not be called a modern american libertarian, and probably something few libertarians would call a libertarian. It's disappointing, because I'd welcome a serious third party candidate, even perhaps voting for my issues slightly suboptimally on non-human-rights issues just to punish democrats and republicans alike.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by The Original Nex »

Polls this far out of any potential presidential matchup are useless for anything. They're a way for news organizations to make their own chatter.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

All these polls just brings me back to the Yes, Prime Minister episode on pollings. You craft the question to suit the intended answer sought.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

The idea of Ron Paul as a serious presidential COntender is so laughably absurd it makes me wish he DID run.
It is the same sort of reaction why Sarah Palin will never EVER run for office again. People like her and Ron Paul are like raw meat to the GOP crazies.. And thats FINE most of the time... But during a Presidential Election... shocker of Shocker you actually need MORE then just your totally crazy base supporters.

Ye gods, Ron Paul running in 2012 would lead to a total landslide victory for Obama.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Coyote »

Ron & Sarah will be trotted around during the GOP run-up to the elections, to stir people up, but once the Tea Partiers are engaged, the field will be narrowed down and the serious contenders will be winnowed to the top. Smart money --at the moment-- is probably Romney, but as mentioned a lot can happen between now and then.

So, yeah, we'll see a lot of thunder and bluster from the wingnuts that we'll have to endure (it'll be a way to test the waters; for example, if the "Kenyan secret Muslilm" thing has lost steam, they can use Ron & Sarah to find out without risking their real potential-holders.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Paul has ever actually endorsed the birther crap. Granted, the man has a lot of problems as a politician regardless.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Erik von Nein »

This poll is flat-out stupid. Ron Paul wasn't a serious contender for the GOP nomination last election, what makes anyone think he will be this next election? He's already failed pretty miserably and doesn't have the same level of insanity (he's insane, just for different reasons) as McCain or Romney.

Fucking perpetual elections.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Erik von Nein wrote:This poll is flat-out stupid. Ron Paul wasn't a serious contender for the GOP nomination last election, what makes anyone think he will be this next election? He's already failed pretty miserably and doesn't have the same level of insanity (he's insane, just for different reasons) as McCain or Romney.

Fucking perpetual elections.
I agree the poll is probably over-optimistic regarding Paul's chances, but would point out that Ron Paul's small government, anti-tax positions seem to have enjoyed a major upswing in popularity since Obama ran (ie, the Tea Party), and I think he almost won some primaries last time (didn't actually take any in the end though). I can see him being a semi-serious contender this time around, even though I too find Romney to be the most likely winner at present.

Edit: Meaning Romney would be the most likely primary winner. I still think Obama will probably take the general election, especially against Romney, who is a fairly uncharismatic flip-flopper.
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Re: A rather surprising poll...

Post by Erik von Nein »

He might have more of a chance if Sarah Palin weren't, you know, the Tea Party's favorite person ever. Of course she's going to attempt the primary candidate run, and if she does it doesn't matter how many anti-tax positions Ron Paul takes, they're going to support her first.
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