Adeptus Mechanicus Capabilities

[Serafina]

This thread is intended to discuss the doctrine, abilities, methods and capabilities of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the machine cult of the Warhammer 40K-galaxy.


It is an aparently common misconception that the Adeptus Mechanicus is unable and/or unwilling to make any new inventions.
This is true to an extent, since the main belief of the Adeptus Mechanicus is that the most valuable technology already exists in the form of STK-relics and has only to be rediscovered.

However, that does not mean that they are unwilling to alter these devices or are incapable of creating devices not based on STK-technology. I would like to point to the Hunter AA-missile tank, which is a reconfiguration of the Whirlwind MLRS german lexicanum article, primary source epic armageddon rulebook. This was definately an innovative, well-made application of existing technology which is now widely employed, which shows that alteration of sacred STK-systems is not forbidden.
Additional evidence for this can be found in numerous other reconfigurations of STK-schemata, notable of the Land Raider and Land Speeder.

As for actual innovation, numerous weapon systems have been improved from the 30th millenium onward, including the Storm Bolter and Servo Armor. Furthermore, several other new weapons have been created, such as Lathe-blades (non-powered blades that surpass even STK-weaponery [source: Dark Heresy Inquisitors Handbook]).
The Hellguns of the Imperial Guard were also an innovation that is now again being replaced by the more powerfull Hot-Shot lasguns.
Various shipyards are now also producing new shipy types, and some of them are actually reaching or surpassing old drive patterns (such as the Voss-line or Nova frigatte [source: BFG Ships of the Imperium]).
Non-weapon examples are naturally hard to find in 40K, but we see in Necropolis (Gaunts Ghosts) and Necromunda that other innovations are also commonplace.


Another common misconception is that the Adeptus Mechanicus is unwilling to deal with alien technology.
Again, this is true to a certain degree but not always the case.
As an example, Jokaero-technology is common amongst the richest individuals in the Imperium (Navigators, Inquisitors, Rogue Traders, planetary nobles). These includes the infamous Digital Weapons and also other devices such as miniscule mobile spy cameras. That technology is not only not illegeal, it is also reproduces by the Adeptus Mechanicus, indicating a certain degree of understanding.
Furthermore, the Gothic sector actually based most of it's defenses and command structure upon the Blackstone Fortresses, which were known to be alien artifacts of unknown origins and only partially understood by the IoM.
Both examples show that alien technology is tolerated and used if usefull and shown to be no danger to the user.


The last misconception i would like to adress is that the Adeptus Mechanicus has a totaly monopoly on all technology.
They certainly try to have one, but we see to many examples where technology is handled by others to say that this is true. More likely, they have the right to police technology and are generally the best scientists, engineeers and technicians around.
Again, we see examples in Macropoles such as in the Necropolis-novel and in Necromunda where technology is not only handled but also invented by non-AM members or without any interaction with the AM (factories are run by non-AMs, noble houses invent new computional technology such as the EW-amulet in Necropolis).
Many regiments of the Imperial Guard also operate with few or no AM-support, which naturally requires that they have their own technicians.
The non-presence of the AM in large parts of the IoM necessiates that at least engineering and technical matters are handled by non-AM members and without much interaction. While the AM could theoretically intervene if someone did something against their doctrine, they can't be everywhere. Furthermore, the fact that non-AM members can actually innovate new devices also shows that not all expertise rests with the AM.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Some tidbits I dug up from Dark Heresy a couple of months ago on this subject:

(original Black Industries print, page 88)

The Cult Mechanicus holds a virtual monopoly on technology. Its tenets and beliefs permeate through their rituals into the common superstition of Imperial citizens. The Adeptus Mechanicus is run by the Tech-Priests of Mars, an insular priesthood that worship the Machine God and whose goal is to harvest all the lost technology that has been missing since before the Age of Strife. The lowest ranks of Tech-Priests have mainly maintenance and construction duties, but as a Tech-adept progresses and acquires greater knowledge, he is relieved from the more trivial day-to-day tasks and allowed to study and learn of the greater mysterious and missing techniques that have prevented any kind of progressive development in the Imperium's technological base.

All Tech-Priests have an advanced grasp of how to maintain most of the standard technologies that are used throughout the Imperium. There are also many specialities a Tech-Priest can study, such as the biologius [sic], xenology and the use of rediscovered weaponry to name but a few.

Tech-Priests are not confined to Mars or the numerous Forge Worlds that are scattered throughout the galaxy. Many are given leave to seek out lost technologies or investigate rumoured sightings of STC templates. It is on these missions Tech-Priests most likely come into contact with an Inquisitor or cell.

[...] His knowledge of Imperial, and even xenos, technology will always prove useful. A Tech-Priest may even have the means, via a neural plug, to communicate directly with the machine spirit of certain technologies, making him a very desirable ally.

(page 92)

Cyber Seers delve into the forbidden and occult matters of machinery with frightening zeal. From unnatural geometries to warp-touched autonoma, Cyber Seers do not shirk or sway from looking upon the damning and heretical in their quest for knowledge.

The salient point being that the Adeptus Mechanicus is not as uniformly anti-technology as people like to think. A lot of the "rituals" they get bashed a lot for are just re-interpretations of the things we ourselves do everyday with our technology, given a literary skew from a different perspective.

For example, Mr. Tech-Priest has to intone the rite of activation, bless the machine-spirit with sacred unguents and then coax the rune of activation to life.

We, on the other hand, have to swear at the stupid piece of shit lawn mower, then check the oil level when it won't start right, and then give it another go until it starts.

[Norade]

For example, Mr. Tech-Priest has to intone the rite of activation, bless the machine-spirit with sacred unguents and then coax the rune of activation to life.

We, on the other hand, have to swear at the stupid piece of shit lawn mower, then check the oil level when it won't start right, and then give it another go until it starts.

Now I'm picturing our 'ritual' as having been passed down from generation to generation in 40k so you have priests chanting reverently about the fucking piece of shit that won't start.

[Stark]

Except we check the oil because we understand how heat, friction and metal interact and don't want to blow up the engine and turn it into a white smoke machine. Sure, the stupid rituals might be cooked up by people who DO understand, but people who do that shit by rote don't understand fuck all.

Of course, most modern people don't either; but they're not called mechanics, are they?

[Serafina]

Except we check the oil because we understand how heat, friction and metal interact and don't want to blow up the engine and turn it into a white smoke machine. Sure, the stupid rituals might be cooked up by people who DO understand, but people who do that shit by rote don't understand fuck all.

Of course, most modern people don't either; but they're not called mechanics, are they?

Well - i would call someone who is able to repair stuff a technician.
I would call someone who is able to design technology an engineer.
And i would call someone who understand the underlying principles of something an scientist.

The Adeptus Mechanicus does all of this- Wether they do some fancy rituals with it hardly changes that fact.
The rituals do not preclude actual understanding of these matters. Sure, a Techpriest may say "the oil temperature is too hot which angers the machine spirit" instead of "the oil temperature is too high, the engine will overheat" - but he still knows what to do. The Vocabulary doesn't really matter.

Heck, the Machine Spirit actually has some degree of truth to it. Experienced techpriests are often able to unjam weapons or restart and engine without actually touching them at all. But then again, they have numerous implants which allow them to do all kinds of crazy stuff (more on both topics later).

[Stark]

The vocabulary DOES matter, because it shows that the underlying understanding is complete bullshit. Your definitions of words that aren't 'mechanic' aren't really relevant.

The fancy rituals are either ignorant nonsense or magic; if it's magic you'd think they'd formalise it as a science and if it's nonsense you'd think they'd be smart enough to simply stop doing it. It's only been ... what... TEN THOUSAND FUCKING YEARS, or longer than all of recorded human history. That they have ridiculous tech doesn't make their approach less retarded, as their tech should be consistent enough to be formalised.

Like I said, the guys who set it up or run it might have a solid understanding, but if 'rituals' based on mumbo-jumbo are how the majority work, that's pretty embarrassing.

[Norade]

I can imagine at the lowest levels junior tech priests doing entire engine rebuilds to change a spark plug because they can't trouble shoot and only know the thing as one long ritual as well. At the lowest levels there is a huge drop in skill from an average joe in our or most other universes and their universe. I can diagnose most of what's wrong with a small engine and I'm not at all mechanically inclined and I don't need to spend any time praying to get things done.

[Stark]

Sure, like I've said twice already, it wouldn't hugely surprise me that the lowend guys are like this. However, if it's just the top end (or mythological past organisers) that think without this baggage, the characterisation of the AM as a bunch of witchdoctor idiots isn't wrong.

Just because it works due to ghosts or tech or whatever doesn't mean they're doing it right.

[Bakustra]

The vocabulary DOES matter, because it shows that the underlying understanding is complete bullshit. Your definitions of words that aren't 'mechanic' aren't really relevant.

The fancy rituals are either ignorant nonsense or magic; if it's magic you'd think they'd formalise it as a science and if it's nonsense you'd think they'd be smart enough to simply stop doing it. It's only been ... what... TEN THOUSAND FUCKING YEARS, or longer than all of recorded human history. That they have ridiculous tech doesn't make their approach less retarded, as their tech should be consistent enough to be formalised.

Like I said, the guys who set it up or run it might have a solid understanding, but if 'rituals' based on mumbo-jumbo are how the majority work, that's pretty embarrassing.

The Ciaphas Cain novels indicate that people who openly disagree with the conventional line of thinking tend to be kept at low levels within the organization. It may be a mere matter of inertia, or the religious nature of the Adeptus Mechanicus leads it to be run as a mystery cult; the lower members are kept performing the rote rituals and lighting the incense so that the higher-ups can maintain their power, and those who disagree are either shut out entirely or quietly marginalized if they make efforts at reform. They do have a vested advantage in ensuring that technology remains in their control, one which leads them to quiet rivalries and wars between them and the other branches of the Imperial government, so it hardly seems implausible that they use meaningless rituals and mysticism to keep the lower rungs from thinking too freely (with the added advantage that said mysticism works on rare occasion) and the mysteries of technological workings out of the hands of the lay populace.

[Stark]

Which is hardly a ringing endorsement of their technical competence, if they're just an ossified bunch of museum curators playing office politics with an army of retarded cult members.

Attempting to claim they're competent technologically if they marginalise free thinkers is funny stuff. It looks (to my superficial 40k knowledge) like a retcon over the last decade, anyway; it was orgiianlly played for laughs.

[Serafina]

Personal Capabilities of Techpriests

In this part, i try to cover the capabilities a Techpriest may have, without resorting to external weapons and armor.
"Techpriest" is used here as a general term for an member of the Adeptus Mechanicus with the so-called Mechanicus Implants and covers everything from a low-ranking Technographer to an experienced Magos.

Most of this information is taken from the Dark Heresy Roleplay. I will NOT use any gameplay-specific aspects as evidence (so i won't use numbers) but rather just point out general capabilties and make rough comparisions (e.g. "a Luminem Blast is roughly as dangerous as various types fo rifles).

The Mechanicus implants are various mechanical devices that are commonplace amongst members of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
The Electro-Graft allows them to interface with data ports and data nets - your typical sci-fi dataplug. They come in various forms - actual plugs or more sophisticated electoos which require only close proximity.
Cranial Circuits are basic data-storage units interfaced with the brain and are often later enhanced to replace parts or even most or all of the brain.
Electoo Inductors are connected to the nervous system and appear similar to tatoos on the skin of the user. They can be used to both release and capture energy in various ways.
Respirator Units are just synthetic lungs nad speakers, nothing special here.
The Cyber-Mantle is a framework of metal, wires and transmitters that works as an anchor-point for various other implants. It is crafted onto both the spine and the ribcage.
The Potentia Coil is basically a large battery that also produces some energy

To summarize:
A Techpriest can interface with computers and store some data directly into a small artifical brain.
He can syphon or release energy to or from an internal battery/generator.
These and other devices are anchored on another implant.

Further Implants:
One of the most common additional implants for Techpriests are the so-called Mechandrites. These are flexible additional limbs, often crafted onto shoulders or the spine. They can be used to hold weapons, medical devices, tools and simple manipulators. More advanced versions, called Servo-Arms can lift the side of an APC or tank if the user has further strenght-enhancing implants and sufficient anchoring.

Sound-Modulating Abilities:
The Respirator Unit can be used to manipulate soundwaves in multiple ways. That includes short-duration stuns, selective deafening of enemies, imitating other voices and simply using the own voice to greater effect.

Levitation:
Techpriests can levitate themselfs roughly 20-30 centimeters. This can also be used to slow falls. Furthermore, additional refinement allows them to actually fly for several mintues, tough this taxes their energy reserves, requiring substantial recharging.

Remote Manipulation:
Similar to the levitation, metal objects can be moved from several (about two dozen) meters away

Transferring electricity:
Techpriests can syphon electricty from generators, power cells and the like to recharge their own internal systems. This can also be used to clear biological fatique to a certain extent. Likewise, they can transfer electriciy to recharge such devices, tough this is usually limited to handheld or personal devices - however, they are observed instances where vehicle engines could be powered by such means for at least half an hour.

Shooting Electricity:
The Electoo Inductors are also capable of releasing both a close-proximity electroshock and a "ball of lightning". The latter most likely works on similar principles as imperial plasma technology.
The damage by this ranges from scorched limbs (similar to a lasgun) to inceriated corpes (high-end lasgun, low-end plasma gun) (based on actual descriptions rather than in-game term).

Self-healing:
Both blood-filtering machinery as such that releases medical agents can be used to accelerate the healing process of wounded Techpriests. This is typically augmented with self-repair systems for their implants.
This is not a feat that is usefull in battle but rather helps with long-term recovery of wounds. It can however be used to close small wounds and staunch bleeding.

Mechanical Augmentation:
Techpriests are capable of enhancing their bodies in many ways. Experienced techpriests can consist mostly of metal, granting them a great deal of protection against small arms. This typically includes strenght-enhancimg augmentations, which can rival Space Marine strenght. This allows such feats as firing an assault cannon without further assistance.

Brain replacement:
The whole brain of a Techpriest can be replaced without severe damage. This typically has the effect of eleminating or severely reducing emotions while greatly aiding them with calculations.


Overall, most of these capabilities require training, further implants of the refinement of existing ones. Therefore, junior members will likely only have some of them (depending on their field of expertise) while senior ones will be more capable.

[Serafina]

Stark, you totally failed to adress my point:
IT WORKS

I do not care what they believe, only what they are capable of.
So far, that means that most Techpriests (which is not just anyone working for the AM, mind you) are capable of maintaining a suprisingly broad amount of different technologies while higher-ranking members can replicate technology that even the Eldar do not fully understand.

You can laugh about their rituals all you want, but that does not reduce their abilities in maintenance, engineering and science.
It certainly requires explanation, but the most likely one is that it is both window-dressing and a means to make the masses revering them.

[Stark]

If I punch you in the face while making toast, does punching you in the face make toast? Make it better? If I ignorantly believe it's necessary and don't understand why, does this make me competent?

If they were scientists they'd remove extraneous nonsense and formalise things that are systematic and fundamental, instead of as Bakustra says, deliberately propagating nonsense to retain control of the fundamentals.

I can laugh about Jesus all I want, but it does not reduce their abilities in science, mathematics and the arts.

Are you listening to yourself?

[Serafina]

Did i say it makes them better in any way?

What they do is pretty much like a christian who prays to Jesus before every experiment. He may even thank god when he finds what he looked for.
He might go further and dress the lab with various crosses and the likes. The crosses might even be placed onto his microscope and his lab coat. Perhaps he goes even further and listens to a christian choir all the time, humming along.

Do we consider that normal? No.
Does it help him doing his work? Of course not, except by providing an enviorment that suits him.
Does that mean that he is a bad scientist? Well, we judge that according to his results.

You apparently do not do that with the Adeptus Mechanicus. You still did not adress my point that their methods work, window-dressing or not. So again: Since they are clearly capable of the described feats, why should we care what else they do along with that?

[Stark]

Exactly; it's totally useless and stupid. Thanks.

If 3rd company suffered from feed problems on their new autoguns and instituted the sacred charge handle slap to commemorate commissar trollop's heroic death, which reduces feed failures by 80% due to the oversight of the commisar's holy essence before the lord god, is this evidence of competence or complete ignorance of the most basic mechanical principles? Remember, it 'works'.

[Serafina]

Exactly; it's totally useless and stupid. Thanks.

I never claimed otherwise.
All i am saying is that we should judge by results. You are apparently still unwilling to do that, resorting to an appeal to riddicule based on some fancy rituals.

[Norade]

Exactly; it's totally useless and stupid. Thanks.

I never claimed otherwise.
All i am saying is that we should judge by results. You are apparently still unwilling to do that, resorting to an appeal to riddicule based on some fancy rituals.

It does work, but my question is how much time do these rituals take the lower end priests to do? If it adds a significant time increase then it works, but is less efficient than it should be. We know the higher end priests can mutter a few words and do it, but how long does it take a junior AM member or guard engineer to do the same thing?

[Stark]

Fancy rituals that illustrate ignorance. People even talk about how the 'machine spirit' thing isn't 'wrong' because tanks have AI (or something), but it defines how they interact with the 'spirits' instead of working from a scientific perspective, which is hardly 'competence'. If you think a guy praying to a tank's AI and placating it with scented candles is equivalent to having IT support manage your datalinks, you're stupid.

PS? In sourcebooks examples just like the one I presented exist; they're JOKES. The sacred thump to the CRT monitor is FAMOUSLY A JOKE.

[Uraniun235]

In order to claim that the silly magic rituals are actually effective, wouldn't you need to provide examples of situations where trying to use the tech without the rituals resulted in failure?

[Stark]

In order to claim that the silly magic rituals are actually effective, wouldn't you need to provide examples of situations where trying to use the tech without the rituals resulted in failure?

It occurs to me that this is a complete tangent. BCG might have been defensive abotu AM ignorance, but the thread is about what they can do, not how stupid and broken mentally they are.

[Serafina]

The praying would look somewhat like this:
First you "intone the Chant of Awareness" - basically a diagnostic routine.
Then you "pray the Circle of Atonement" - you manually reenter the routines it was supposed to do.
And finally, you initiate the "Ritual of Pure Spirit" - you restart the whole thing.
Voila, your cogiator/computer works again.

Yes, there are certainly many instances where that takes up extra time. However, that also seems to guarantee a simple user-interface that is remarkable consistent all over the galaxy. Seems like a good tradeoff to me.

[Stark]

Except... that demosntrates zero understanding of what they're doing, just like slapping your magazines because the Saint of Bolt-Action will watch over you.

[Norade]

You mean like the simple system called windows we have today with it's relatively easy to use interface and decent reliability unless exposed to outside malware? Or how we just allow our citizens to read sop they can pick up these skills themselves? You say your by rote incantation, I'll read the manual, guess who does the job quicker?

[Serafina]

Except... that demosntrates zero understanding of what they're doing, just like slapping your magazines because the Saint of Bolt-Action will watch over you.

So...do you understand how your microwave or computer work?
That's not necessary to operate the damn thing.

Either way, it is clear that the AM can design and research new technology. That means that they MUST understand it.
It's also clear that their mechanics can fix their stuff.
Wether or not they take longer than without their rituals is certainly an interesting issue, but we won't get anywhere without looking at how long they actually need to do so. Right now, i do not have any good examples. And unless you do, saying "LoL, they chant to their stuff" is not very prodcutive, now is it?

[Stark]

Except the AM isn't a bunch of operators; they're the ones who build and design things.

Just because they can design and research doesn't mean they aren't doing so at reduced capability due to their religion.

Amusingly, if their CRTs suck so bad they need to thump them (like it's the 80s, when the joke started) melting all that wax into the casing probably isn't helping. Uh oh; I guess they have supertech liquid-cooled CRTs that somehow still have dodgey deguassing.