On August 18, 1976, a group of five Korean Service Corps (KSC) personnel escorted by a UNC security team consisting of the Joint Security Force (JSF) Company Commander (Captain Arthur Bonifas), his South Korean (ROK) Army counterpart, Captain Kim, the platoon leader of the current platoon in the area (1st Lt. Mark Barrett), and 11 enlisted personnel, both American and South Korean[1], went into the JSA to trim the tree as previously scheduled with the KPA delegation. The two captains did not wear sidearms, as members of the Joint Security Area were limited to only five armed officers and 30 armed enlisted personnel at a time. However, there were mattocks in the back of the 2½ ton truck. The KSC workers had the axes they brought to prune the tree branches. The tree had been scheduled to be trimmed seven days earlier, but rain had forced the work to be rescheduled.
After trimming began, 15 to 16 KPA soldiers appeared, commanded by Senior Lt. Pak Chul, whom the UNC soldiers had previously nicknamed "Lt. Bulldog" due to a history of confrontations.[2][3] Pak and his subordinates appeared to observe the trimming without concern for approximately 15 minutes, until he abruptly told the UNC to cease the activity stating the tree could not be trimmed "because Kim Il Sung personally planted it and nourished it and it’s growing under his supervision."[4] Capt. Bonifas ordered the detail to continue, and turned his back on Lt. Pak Chul.
After being ignored by Capt. Bonifas, Pak Chul sent a runner across the Bridge of No Return. Within minutes a North Korean guard truck crossed the bridge and approximately 20 more North Korean guards disembarked carrying crowbars and clubs. Pak Chul again demanded that the tree trimming stop, and when Capt. Bonifas again turned his back on him, Pak Chul removed his watch, carefully wrapped it in a handkerchief, placed it in his pocket, and then shouted "Kill them!" as he swung a karate chop to the back of Capt. Bonifas' neck.[5][6] Using axes dropped by the tree-trimmers, the KPA forces attacked the two U.S. soldiers, Capt. Bonifas and Lt. Barrett, and wounded all but one of the UNC guards.[2][7]
While Capt. Bonifas died instantly, Lt. Barrett jumped a low wall which led into a 15 ft. (4½ m) deep tree-filled depression. The depression was not visible from the road. The entire fight lasted for only about 20–30 seconds before the UNC Force managed to disperse the KPA guards and place Capt. Bonifas' body in their truck.[6] However, there was no sign of Lt. Barrett and the two UNC guards at OP#5 could not see them.
They did, however, observe the KPA guards grab (by the heels) approximately five members of their own force and drag them back across the bridge. They also observed the KPA guards at KPA#8 (along the UNC emergency egress road) exhibiting strange behavior, in that one guard would take an axe and go down into the depression for a couple of minutes and then come back up and hand the axe to another guard who would repeat the process. This went on for approximately 90 minutes until the UNC guards at OP#5 were informed that Lt. Barrett was missing, at which time they informed their superiors about the KPA activity in the depression. A search and rescue squad was quickly dispatched and found Lt. Barrett had been attacked with the axe by the North Koreans.
In response to the "Axe Murder Incident," the UN Command determined that instead of trimming the branches that obscured visibility, they would cut down the tree with the aid of overwhelming force. The operation, named after mythical lumberjack Paul Bunyan, was conceived as a US/South Korean show of force, but was also carefully managed to prevent further escalation. It was planned over two days by General Richard G. Stilwell and his staff at the UNC headquarters in Seoul.
Operation Paul Bunyan was carried out on August 21 at 7 AM, just three days after the killings. A convoy of 23 American and South Korean vehicles (‘Task Force Vierra’, named for Lieutenant Colonel Victor S. Vierra, commander of the United States Army Support Group) drove into the JSA without any warning to the North Koreans, who only had one observation post manned at that early hour. In the vehicles were two eight-man teams of military engineers (from the 2nd Engineer Battalion, 2nd Infantry Division) equipped with chain-saws to cut down the tree. These teams were accompanied by two 30-man security platoons from the Joint Security Force, who were armed with pistols and axe handles. The 2nd Platoon would secure the northern entrance to the JSA via the “Bridge of No Return”, while the 3rd Platoon would secure the southern edge of the area.
Concurrently, a team from B Company, commanded by CPT Walter Seifried, had activated the detonation systems for the charges on Freedom Bridge and had the 165mm main gun of the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle aimed mid-span to ensure that the bridge would fall should the order be given for its destruction. Also B Company, supporting E Company (Bridge), commanded by CPT Williams, were building M4T6 rafts on the Imjin River should the situation require emergency evacuation by that route.
In addition, a 64-man ROK special forces company accompanied them, armed with clubs and trained in Tae Kwon Do, supposedly without firearms. However, once they parked their trucks near the Bridge of No Return, they started throwing out the sandbags that lined the truck bottoms, and handing out M-16 rifles and M-79 grenade launchers that had been concealed below.[1] Several of the special forces men also had Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge.[10][11]
A U.S. infantry company in 20 utility helicopters and 7 Cobra attack helicopters circled behind them. Behind these helicopters, B-52 bombers escorted by U.S. F-4 fighters from Kunsan Air Base and ROK F-5 fighters were visible flying across the sky at high altitude. At Osan Air Base, F-111 fighters had been armed and fueled, ready to take off at short notice. The aircraft carrier Midway task force had also been moved to a station just offshore. In addition, near the edges of the DMZ, many more heavily armed U.S. and ROK infantry, artillery (which included the 2nd Bn/71st ADA (HAWK) in the 2ID/ICorps area), and armor were waiting to back up the special operations team. The bases near the DMZ were prepared for demolition in the case of a military response. The defense condition (DEFCON) was elevated on order of Gen. Stillwell, as recounted in Col. De LaTeur's research paper later. In addition, 12,000 additional troops were ordered to Korea, including 1,800 Marines from Okinawa.[5]
North Korea quickly responded with about 150–200 troops, armed with machine guns and assault rifles.[1] The North Korean troops arrived mostly in buses, but did not leave them at first, watching the events unfold. Upon seeing their arrival, LTC Vierra relayed a radio communication, whereupon the helicopters and Air Force jets became visible over the horizon. The North Koreans quickly disembarked from their buses and began setting up two-man machine gun positions, where they watched in silence as the tree fell in 42 minutes (three minutes fewer than Stilwell's estimate)[1], avoiding a violent confrontation. Also removed were two road barriers installed by the North Koreans[5], while the South Korean troops also vandalized two North Korean guard posts. The stump of the tree, almost 20 ft (6 m) tall, was deliberately left as a reminder.
Five minutes into the operation, the UNC notified their North Korean counterparts at the JSA that a UN work party had entered the JSA "in order to peacefully finish the work left unfinished" on August 18.
The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
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- Shroom Man 777
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Man, this incident is nowhere near as awesome as the AXE MURDER INCIDENT
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Human Torpedoes Blamed For Korea Ship Strike
An elite North Korean suicide squad of human torpedoes has been blamed for the sinking of a South Korean ship in mysterious circumstances.
Korea's Defence Intelligence Command had alerted the navy weeks ahead of the sinking that North Korean suicide squads were being deployed, according to reports in Seoul.
These "human torpedo" squads were said to involve small submarines.
They are navigated so close to the target that their torpedoes or explosives blow up both target and the attackers.
They can also be timed to explode while the attackers escape from the vessel, the mass-circulation South Korean newspaper Chosun Ilbo reported.
The attack by North Korea was in retaliation for an earlier defeat, the report added.
"It is the military intelligence's assessment that the North attacked with a heavy torpedo," a military source was quoted as saying by the news agency Yonhap.
"The military intelligence has made the report to the Blue House - the Presidential residence - and to the Defence Ministry immediately after the sinking of the Cheonan that it is clearly the work of North Korea's military," the source added.
South Korea now plans to raise the front half of the 1,200-tonne Cheonan, which went down near a disputed sea border with North Korea.
It will issue its verdict on the cause of the explosion that sank the warship after that.
The sinking last month claimed the lives of more than 40 South Korean sailors.
If Pyongyang did carry out the attack it would be the deadliest confrontation between the two countries since the Korean War ended in 1953.
The North has denied it had anything to do with the sinking.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
How is President Lee's administration going to take it if he just does nothing? He and the Grand National Party were elected on the promise of getting tough with the DPRK.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
What CAN he do? Retaliation's shit since what they want is to de-escalate and NOT promote a war or something. I guess they could send North Korea an angry-letter, stop whatever diplomatic normalization process is underway, and piss the Norks by decreasing whatever aid South Korea's sending to the Norks?
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Well, perhaps they can do a tit-for-tat strike, and haave a SK sub send a Nork ship to Davey Jones. Or maybe a US nuc boat can arrange something on SK's behalf.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
That would be very, very bad though, wouldn't it? If the Norks decide to escalate? Wouldn't there be other, non-military, but nonetheless diplomatically potent, means to show the Norks that their actions are shit? Like more sanctions, if that's even possible, or something to fuck over Nork economy and make things unpleasant for the government?
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
South Korea has two meaningful options:
a) Do nothing
b) Retaliate and risk war
NK doesn't care about sternly worded letters, sanctions, angry glares, diplomacy, or anything else
a) Do nothing
b) Retaliate and risk war
NK doesn't care about sternly worded letters, sanctions, angry glares, diplomacy, or anything else
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
It would be risky, yeah, but truth be told... it's not like we haven't been ready for something like this. The real question is, if the SKs or US retaliates in some way, and the ball is back in the Norks' court, are they ready to escalate, too? Really?
For all we know, this might be posturing by some Admiral on the ruling council jockying for increased status. He may have already won his increased status, or been sacked by his peers for rocking the boat (literally).
They're crazy, but not stupid. They know they can't win a war, their only hopeful strategy is to make said war so costly that it gives SK and the USA black eyes as North Korea as an entity goes down. The best they can hope for is that China will rush in at the last minute, publicly execute a handful of the most visible top officials while quietly funneling the rest away to the western plains to live quietly. That would be one way North Korea would "win" a war-- most of the ruling council using China as a lifeboat as North Korea itself is scorched.
For all we know, this might be posturing by some Admiral on the ruling council jockying for increased status. He may have already won his increased status, or been sacked by his peers for rocking the boat (literally).
They're crazy, but not stupid. They know they can't win a war, their only hopeful strategy is to make said war so costly that it gives SK and the USA black eyes as North Korea as an entity goes down. The best they can hope for is that China will rush in at the last minute, publicly execute a handful of the most visible top officials while quietly funneling the rest away to the western plains to live quietly. That would be one way North Korea would "win" a war-- most of the ruling council using China as a lifeboat as North Korea itself is scorched.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
I suspect something would be done. Something like this cannot go unpunished. Something so embarrassing that not even the N.Koreans will relish publicising it. Otherwise, the Norks will keep pushing and pushing to no end.
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
At the moment, the situation is that no weapons fragments have been identified and the cause of the sinking is unknown. However, the condition of the cabling and ducting at the point where the hull was severed is still good and this argues against a torpedo. In fact, the actual Korean Navy statement is "there is only a slim chance that a torpedo caused the sinking."
There's a huge number of theories out there, none of which have any evidence to support them. One is that the Japanese did it to eliminate a trade rival, another is that the US did so a Korean War would start and that would get the war vote out for the Democrats. Korean mainstream opinion is split between those who think the government is moving too quickly to blame the Norks and those who think it isn't moving fast enough. Most Korean press coverage reflects that debate.
Given the issues at stake here, I think a measured response and careful evaluation is prudent. I'd urge everybody to go with actual evidence as it is produced rather than tabloid newspaper theories.
There's a huge number of theories out there, none of which have any evidence to support them. One is that the Japanese did it to eliminate a trade rival, another is that the US did so a Korean War would start and that would get the war vote out for the Democrats. Korean mainstream opinion is split between those who think the government is moving too quickly to blame the Norks and those who think it isn't moving fast enough. Most Korean press coverage reflects that debate.
Given the issues at stake here, I think a measured response and careful evaluation is prudent. I'd urge everybody to go with actual evidence as it is produced rather than tabloid newspaper theories.
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
Nations survive by making examples of others
Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Since the Korean press is busy throwing out wacky theories, perhaps I can add a few. The explosion was caused by:
1. The Jews
2. Aliens
3. Al-Qaida
4. Greek super-soldiers
5. Kim Jong-Il
6. Chuck Norris
7. AYVB
8. The Illuminati
9. The Chinese
10. The Jews (again)
In all seriousness, though - have they raised the second half of the ship yet? I saw the pictures of the back half that had been raised
1. The Jews
2. Aliens
3. Al-Qaida
4. Greek super-soldiers
5. Kim Jong-Il
6. Chuck Norris
7. AYVB
8. The Illuminati
9. The Chinese
10. The Jews (again)
In all seriousness, though - have they raised the second half of the ship yet? I saw the pictures of the back half that had been raised
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Actually, there is one way they could wipe the slate clean in a way that all parties would be willing to wave the whole thing away-- blame it on an old, leftover Japanese mine from WW2.
It doesn't have to be believed. It just has to work politically.
It doesn't have to be believed. It just has to work politically.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
-
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Well, the severed aft section looks kinda weird. I'd expect more widespread damage if 200 kg of high explosive went off under that ship. If I didn't know there was an explosion involved I'd say the ship was split apart in high speed collision with another ship.Stuart wrote:At the moment, the situation is that no weapons fragments have been identified and the cause of the sinking is unknown. However, the condition of the cabling and ducting at the point where the hull was severed is still good and this argues against a torpedo. In fact, the actual Korean Navy statement is "there is only a slim chance that a torpedo caused the sinking."
Just my uneducated guessing.
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
yeah, the problem is that old, leftover Japanese mine from WW2 (or Russian mine from 1905 or Russian/Japanese/German mine from 1914 or Japanese/Chinese mine from 1936 or British/American/Japanese/Russian/German mine from 1944 or British/American/Russian/German/Japanese mine from 1951) is probably the most probable explanation.Coyote wrote:Actually, there is one way they could wipe the slate clean in a way that all parties would be willing to wave the whole thing away-- blame it on an old, leftover Japanese mine from WW2. It doesn't have to be believed. It just has to work politically.
The thing to avoid is the "cause of the week" syndrome. This is already beginning to set in with "mines" being last weeks and "Korean suicde craft" this week. We really need solid evidence and the only solid evidence we have now is that there is no solid evidence.
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
Nations survive by making examples of others
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Would not an old mine have left fragmentation for certain? Anything that old would have been made out of metal. A modern North Korean weapon could have been plastic cased, with the pieces simply floating away, and perhaps being difficult to distinguish from other plastic debris from the ship. This raises an immediate question as to if it’s possible to do any kind of dating tests on explosives residue that are accurate to within at least a decade.
Not that I wouldn’t put it past North Korea to simply have mines from WW2 leftover and have keep them soaking in salt water tanks so they appear to be old. They are amply crazy enough for that.
Not that I wouldn’t put it past North Korea to simply have mines from WW2 leftover and have keep them soaking in salt water tanks so they appear to be old. They are amply crazy enough for that.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Would retaliatory mining of nork seaports be a reasonable limited response by the sorks?
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Mining a harbor is a very overt act of war, with all the immediate consequences that brings, and North Korea is already subject to a defacto maritime blockade. It isn't a limited response at all.
Limited military responses against North Korea are a bad idea anyway, because they just invite further limited retaliation which the North is better positioned to sustain. They don’t care about loosing people making such attacks, and sustained a very high pace of infiltration and ambushes in the 1960s and early 70s in response to ROK deployment of troops to Vietnam. The Ax Murder Incident is just one of the more spectacular incidents to occur because the fight and murders were actually recorded on film.
If the ROK dropped a single GBU-28 on a naval command bunker for example, the North Koreans would think nothing at losing 20-30 people launching a ground attack to wipe out an ROK outpost on the DMZ.
Limited military responses against North Korea are a bad idea anyway, because they just invite further limited retaliation which the North is better positioned to sustain. They don’t care about loosing people making such attacks, and sustained a very high pace of infiltration and ambushes in the 1960s and early 70s in response to ROK deployment of troops to Vietnam. The Ax Murder Incident is just one of the more spectacular incidents to occur because the fight and murders were actually recorded on film.
If the ROK dropped a single GBU-28 on a naval command bunker for example, the North Koreans would think nothing at losing 20-30 people launching a ground attack to wipe out an ROK outpost on the DMZ.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
So far as the South Korean military is concerned, it was a for-real attack...
...according to Yonhap, anyway.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36719272/ns ... iapacific/
SEOUL - South Korea's military believes a torpedo fired from a North Korean submarine sank its navy ship last month, based on intelligence gathered jointly with the United States, a news report said on Thursday.
The Yonhap news report appears to be the clearest sign yet that Seoul believes Pyongyang is to blame for what would be one of the deadliest incidents between the rivals since the end of the 1950-53 Korean War.
The military's intelligence arm sent the report of "certain" North Korean involvement to the presidential Blue House soon after the March 26 incident, Yonhap quoted a high-ranking military source as saying.
Also Thursday, the mass-circulation Chosun Ilbo newspaper reported that military intelligence officers warned earlier this year that the North was preparing a suicide submarine attack on a South Korean vessel in retaliation for an earlier defeat in a sea battle.
Seoul has not publicly blamed Pyongyang for the blast, and the North has denied involvement, but suspicion remains given the country's history of provocation and attacks on the South.
President Lee Myung-bak's government has come under criticism for what many see as its overly cautious handling of possible links to North Korea. It has called for a thorough investigation of the sinking, thought to have killed 46 sailors.
Market players have been calmed by the South's measured response, seeing Seoul as unlikely to take aggressive moves that would escalate into armed conflict and harm the export-driven economies of North Asia, responsible for about one-sixth of the global economy.
South Korea's defense ministry had no comment on the Yonhap report.
"North Korean submarines are all armed with heavy torpedoes with 200 kg (441 pound) warheads," the military source was quoted as saying by Yonhap. "It is the military intelligence's assessment that the North attacked with a heavy torpedo.
"The military intelligence has made the report to the Blue House and to the Defense Ministry immediately after the sinking of the Cheonan that it is clearly the work of North Korea's military," the source was quoted as saying.
South Korea plans to soon raise the front half of the 1,200-ton Cheonan, which went down near a disputed sea border with North Korea, and will issue its verdict on the cause of the explosion after that.
Analysts said there is little South Korea can do even if Pyongyang is found to be the culprit, because a military response was likely to hurt its own quickly recovering economy and bolster North Korean leader Kim Jong-il's standing at home.
Lee ended a decade of no-questions-asked aid to the destitute North and called for a hard-line push for Pyongyang to disarm.
"The nuclear issue has still not been resolved. This and the Cheonan incident all serve to inflict a negative impact on the Lee administration," said Lee Nam-young, a political analyst at the Sejong University in Seoul.
The reclusive North has denied it had anything to do with the sinking near the disputed sea border off the west coast that has been the scene of two deadly naval battles in the past decade. It accused Lee of using the incident for political gains ahead of crucial local elections in June.
Yonhap said the South Korean and U.S. military suspected the North was stepping up drills to infiltrate a submarine south of the naval border, hidden among Chinese fishing boats, and wage a surprise attack against the South.
On Thursday, the Chosun Ilbo newspaper reported the Korea Defense Intelligence Command alerted the navy weeks ahead of the ship sinking that North Korea was preparing underwater suicide teams in mini-submarines to attack the South.
These "human torpedo" squads were said to involve small submarines navigated so close to the target that their torpedoes or explosives blow up both target and the attackers, or are timed to explode while the attackers escape from the vehicle, the report said.
The attack preparations were aimed at retaliating against the South over its defeat in a naval skirmish in November, the paper said. The site of the sinking is near where the rival Koreas fought three times since 1999, most recently a November clash that left one North Korean soldier dead and three others wounded.
The two Koreas have never signed a peace treaty since the Korean War ended in 1943 in a truce.
The Chosun Ilbo said the military was investigating whether the navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff had been properly braced for a North Korean attack following the intelligence warning, though it's not clear whether the Cheonan sank because of an attack.
Navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff officials said they would not comment on the report because it involves military intelligence affairs.
A high-profile North Korean defector living in Seoul said he believes Kim masterminded the blast to stoke tension, cause social confusion in the South and shake its economy.
"It's obvious it's something that Kim Jong-il did. We already know Kim Jong-il has been preparing for this kind of incident," said Hwang Jang-yop, a former secretary of the North's Workers Party who once mentored Kim before defecting to Seoul in 1997, in an interview with Chosun Ilbo published Thursday. He didn't provide any evidence for his belief.
A Seoul-based activist said Thursday that he also believes Kim is behind the attack, citing an unidentified North Korean military officer as saying the leader visited a west coast naval command in February and called for revenge for the earlier defeat. Choi Sung-yong told reporters the officer told him a North Korean semi-submersible vessel torpedoed the Cheonan.
Two North Korean agents were arrested Tuesday for allegedly plotting to assassinate the 87-year-old Hwang, who has openly condemned Kim's regime as totalitarian.
...according to Yonhap, anyway.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36719272/ns ... iapacific/
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
It's the same story coming up over and over again. At the moment, there is no evidence to support any of it. All we have is a tabloid newspaper claiming that an unidentified source is saying "If they'd listened to me this wouldn't have happened. This has no credibility until there is some physical evidence.
Look, I believe the sinking was caused by a torpedo and I've said that is my opinion right from the start. But it is still nothing more than my opinion and it plus five bucks will get you a coffee at Starbucks. There is still no evidence at all as to what actually happened and until we get some, this kind of story is nothing more than pure speculation.
Look, I believe the sinking was caused by a torpedo and I've said that is my opinion right from the start. But it is still nothing more than my opinion and it plus five bucks will get you a coffee at Starbucks. There is still no evidence at all as to what actually happened and until we get some, this kind of story is nothing more than pure speculation.
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Nations survive by making examples of others
Nations survive by making examples of others
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Considering how much this could lead to much worse problems, it is in the best interest of both the US and the South Koreans to wait until they are sure what happened before acting on this. Do we not remember the Maine? That lead to the Spanish American War and we still aren't absolutely sure what actually sank the Maine. It doesn't help that we have a yellow journalism rag rushing to make accusations and claims about it this time either.
North Korea would like nothing better then to have a justification to do something aggressive.
North Korea would like nothing better then to have a justification to do something aggressive.
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That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Except now, oddly enough, it is looking like the South Koreans are pushing the 'torpedo theory'.
Is their president "Bush Jee-Yorj" by any chance?
Is their president "Bush Jee-Yorj" by any chance?
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
Actually they aren't. They are frantically denying it. The tabloid newspaper that started the whole thing off remains the sole source for the torpedo claim and they refuse to support it.Coyote wrote:Except now, oddly enough, it is looking like the South Koreans are pushing the 'torpedo theory'.
President Lee Myung-bak said "We are focusing on yielding results that can be acknowledged by the international community through a thorough and scientific investigation. As to the cause of the incident, the Seoul government has no presumptions at all. Although the incident occurred near the border dividing the two Koreas, we don’t make assumptions on the cause in any case. We are waiting for the investigation results and carefully reviewing how to respond when the results come out.”
Today's Korea Herald has an interesting article on the salvage effort.
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
Nations survive by making examples of others
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
A pair of articles with updates and images. The contents of both articles have similar information, but since each also has some details not mentioned in the other, I'll include both.
The Korea Times
Another article I saw earlier (which I cannot find now) says that the salvaged halves of the ship will be taken to Japan to be studied by a third party.
An image found on the Wikipedia entry for the Cheonan showing her in better days:
The Korea Times
The Korea Herald (as mentioend by Stuart):04-23-2010 17:52
Front Half of Cheonan to Be Raised Today
The bow of the sunken ship Cheonan emerges from the West Sea Friday. The Navy plans to raise the remaining wreckage completely Saturday morning. / Korea Times
By Lee Tae-hoon
Staff Reporter
The Navy and a civilian salvage team made final preparations Friday to raise the bow and midsection of the ill-fated frigate Cheonan that sank last month in the West Sea after an unidentified explosion.
Part of the ship's bow emerged from the sea as a giant crane raised it to the surface to maneuver the wreckage into an upright position before commencing the final lift, which is expected to start Saturday if weather conditions permit it.
Most of the bisected body, except the mast, appeared to be intact, including a 76mm gun and glass in the ship's bridge.
Meanwhile, ruling and opposition parties agreed to launch a National Assembly fact-finding committee to investigate the tragic sinking.
Floor leaders of both said the probe will be carried out over two months upon parliamentary approval, but could be extended for another month, if necessary.
A bill on the establishment of a bipartisan panel will be put to a floor vote in an Assembly plenary session Wednesday, they said.
The joint panel will be composed of 20 lawmakers ― 10 from the ruling Grand National Party (GNP), eight from the main opposition Democratic Party (DP), and two from other minor parties. A GNP lawmaker is expected to chair the committee.
It has been almost a month since the frigate with a crew of 104 sank after the mysterious blast, but the exact cause of its sinking has yet to be determined.
As of Friday, 58 crewmembers had been rescued and 39 confirmed dead with seven others remaining listed as missing, following Thursday's recovery of another sailor's body in the ship's funnel that had broken off from the main wreckage.
The ship's stern, containing the bodies of 38 sailors trapped inside, was pulled from the water last week.
Military experts and inspectors at the scene claim that an ``external explosion'' ― possibly from a torpedo fired by a submarine ― was the likely cause of the incident, heightening speculation that North Korea was behind the naval disaster.
Pyongyang, however, has denied any link to the incident, labeling such allegations as fabrications made by ``traitors'' in the South.
The Cheonan sank on March 26 near the disputed maritime border with the North, where the two Koreas fought bloody skirmishes in 1999, 2002 and last November.
In an effort to improve transparency, the government has invited specialists from the United States, Australia, Sweden and Britain for a joint investigation into the cause of the sinking.
A different image of the stern of the Cheonan, as also seen on page 5 of this thread:Cheonan’s bow to be pulled out today
2010-04-23 19:19
A team of Navy and civilian workers set upright the remains of the bow of the sunken Cheonan in waters near Baengnyeong Island in the West Sea yesterday. Lee Sang-sub/The Korea Herald
The military plans to pull the bow of the sunken Navy corvette Cheonan out of the water today, hoping that it will obtain critical evidence in verifying the cause of the March 26 disaster and find seven missing sailors.
The Navy and the civilian salvage team yesterday successfully set the bow in an upright position using four metal chains -- a process necessary for preventing possible oil leakage and damage to the splintered hull.
The bow was lying on its starboard side some 25 meters underwater approximately 1.5 kilometers south of Baengnyeong Island near the tense western inter-Korean maritime border. The stern was pulled out of the water last Thursday.
While setting the bow upright, part of the bow came above the surface. The mast -- equipped with navigation lights and radar -- was not shown. It seemed to have been swept away underwater by strong tidal currents.
Since the 1,200-ton vessel carrying 104 crewmembers was torn in two and sank following an explosion, a total of 39 bodies have been retrieved with seven still unaccounted for. Fifty eight were rescued.
The salvage process, which will begin at around 8 a.m. today, is expected to take some 14 hours, officials said.
After pulling it above the surface, the military will first remove the water inside and then place it onto a barge. The military plans to search for missing sailors during this process. The bodies will then be transported by helicopter to the Navy’s Second Fleet Command in Pyeongtaek, Gyeonggi Province once they are identified.
On Thursday night, the body of Petty Officer First Class Park Bo-ram was found in a funnel that was separated from the stern apparently due to the explosion. His body, along with the bodies of other deceased sailors, is currently placed in a morgue at the naval base, the home port of the ill-fated ship.
President Lee Myung-bak yesterday pledged to cooperate with the international community in drawing up necessary measures depending on the outcome of the ongoing probe into the disaster.
“We are focusing on yielding results that can be acknowledged by the international community through a thorough and scientific investigation. As to the cause of the incident, the Seoul government has no presumptions at all,” Lee said during a meeting with delegates representing the Organization of Asia-Pacific News Agencies at Cheong Wa Dae.
“Although the incident occurred near the border dividing the two Koreas, we don’t make assumptions on the cause in any case. We are waiting for the investigation results and carefully reviewing how to respond when the results come out.”
A multinational investigation team -- consisting of some 130 people including 15 U.S. experts and three from Australia -- has been analyzing fragments and debris collected from the scene of the incident and from the salvaged stern.
The team has tentatively concluded that the explosion occurred externally, which fuelled speculation that North Korea may have mounted a torpedo attack. The North denies its implication.
Political parties yesterday agreed to form an integrated inquiry committee for looking into the cause of the Cheonan’s sinking on March 26. The committee, formed of lawmakers mainly from the ruling Grand National Party and the main opposition Democratic Party, is to be launched next week for a two-month investigation.
The U.S. continued to maintain a cautious stance Thursday, refusing to speculate over the cause of the sinking.
"The investigation taking place is methodical, careful, international and includes civilian experts. It is important to collect, analyze and objectively assess the evidence in an effort to get to the bottom of this tragic loss of life," U.S. National Security Council spokesman Mike Hammer told reporters.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also refused to comment on the North's possible role in the disaster. However, she told reporters that the U.S. remains "concerned about North Korean actions and provocations."
The family members of the deceased sailors said yesterday they would begin the process of coffining and cremating the bodies of their loved ones soon as some of the families wished. They originally planned to begin the process after the bow is salvaged.
By Song Sang-ho
Another article I saw earlier (which I cannot find now) says that the salvaged halves of the ship will be taken to Japan to be studied by a third party.
An image found on the Wikipedia entry for the Cheonan showing her in better days:
Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
The huge size of that committy seems to indicate an effort to cool things down a bit. If you thought the Norks had sunk your ship and you wanted a fight you would appoint a much smaller apolitical committy to get a result while the blood is still hot. A 20 man political committy, we are unlikely to hear from them this year...
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Re: The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.
It appears the amidships was more or less wrecked and the ship torn in three pieces rather than two, since it didn't mention that as being an artefact of the salvage; I was expecting to see a much longer bow section, instead we get this. That suggests, though this still just speculation, that if the blast was external it had to be under the keel.
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In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.