Okay let's say the Demarchists are at their golden-age, pre-plague state.
The First Galactic empire is at its height or say the very start of their decline.
Who would win and how would the war progress?
Demarchists vs Foundation
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Demarchists vs Foundation
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Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
...
So anything to give us a start? An idea of the powers? A thought of what they are fighting over and motivations? Anything other then someone who had a flitting thought flutter and they thought pressing submit was what the cool kids did?
So anything to give us a start? An idea of the powers? A thought of what they are fighting over and motivations? Anything other then someone who had a flitting thought flutter and they thought pressing submit was what the cool kids did?
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
Foundation wins. One has FTL ships and the other has to work within the laws of physics to start with (sort of). You know, things like reaction mass and the like- even without jumping, Foundation ships can simply go around them and blow up anything valuable.
Not to mention the Demarchists aren't good soldiers. Even on a level playing field it would be an actual government versus a political clique that is united by having fun with high tech toys and their willingness to work with the Conjoiners.
Spoiler
Not to mention the Demarchists aren't good soldiers. Even on a level playing field it would be an actual government versus a political clique that is united by having fun with high tech toys and their willingness to work with the Conjoiners.
The Demarcatists are a faction from the Relevation Space series. They fought a war with the Conjoiners before allying with them and I think they are mainly confined to the Yellowstone system. They were supposed to have had some really impressive toys before the melding plague took apart their civilization. And by impressive I mean "sponser interstellar expeditions for kicks".So anything to give us a start? An idea of the powers? A thought of what they are fighting over and motivations?
Spoiler
Even in hard science fiction they wouldn't be a major threat- they don't exact have any threat projection against opponents who are also in space. They get their asses handed to them by the conjoiners when they go to war again which is sort of pathetic when you think about it.
Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
The Demarchists are from Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space series. They are a small power, built around direct democracy via cybernetics hooked up to the internet, that has populations in a handful of systems, probably not more than a dozen. They have space travel that's good enough to go from "outer-system" to "inner-system" in days rather than weeks, they had crazy nanotech and body-modding available at the time this takes place, a bunch of space habitats, and they have space guns of a kind, but they were pacificistic back then. Meanwhile, the First Galactic Empire, at its height, has even less information available. Even the information we do have is vague, at best. We know that they have space guns, space warships, and span the galaxy and have far more planets than the cyberpunk refugees Demarchists.
I predict that this thread will die an ignoble death, but had it a breath of life, it would then become pages upon pages of people playing up the technology of Revelation Space while babbling about how hard the series is.
My prediction of the versus? The two powers embark on a campaign where they try to turn each other into bunny rabbits. War ends in a negotiated peace and a vegetable-sharing agreement.
I predict that this thread will die an ignoble death, but had it a breath of life, it would then become pages upon pages of people playing up the technology of Revelation Space while babbling about how hard the series is.
My prediction of the versus? The two powers embark on a campaign where they try to turn each other into bunny rabbits. War ends in a negotiated peace and a vegetable-sharing agreement.
Invited by the new age, the elegant Sailor Neptune!
I mean, how often am I to enter a game of riddles with the author, where they challenge me with some strange and confusing and distracting device, and I'm supposed to unravel it and go "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE" and take great personal satisfaction and pride in our mutual cleverness?
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Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
The Demarchists are from the Revelation Space series. They had control of a solar system or two from memory, although other factions existed obviously. They possessed highly advanced nanotechnology, massive orbital antimatter production facilities and were capable of enormous engineering feats. Nothing quantifiable, unfortunately.
The melding plague was some sort of nanotechnology virus that fused implants people had with their flesh, creating horrific injuries or death in anybody who got it that had those sorts of things. The majority abandoned such things, and as a result transhumanism went into a massive decline, trade slowed or stopped between places to prevent the spread of the plague, and technology went into a general decline.
They had access to a number of Conjoiner starships known as 'lighthuggers', named as such because they creep along at 0.999... C. They are massive, in the order of thousands of tonnes from memory, and iirc are more than 1 KM long. They use some sort of ram-scoop drive to achieve these velocities. The demarchists are unable to produce these ships on their own, because they have a Conjoiner drive in them, and the technology those run on is totally unknown to the Demarchists (and they tend to explode if you try to open them up to reverse engineer them). These drives are prized because they are apparently reactionless, although they are only capable of getting you up to a small fraction of C before they cut out (the scoop then kicks in).
Natively produced demarchist vessels use fusion rockets, or possibly antimatter rockets (it's possible with their tech, but antimatter isn't cheap to throw around). Their vessels are capable of skirting the atmosphere of gas giants to refuel. They use fusion or antimatter based missile weapons, as well as various energy weapons of unknown make and operation. One that I remember of the top of my head was called a "Boser". Not quantifiable.
Stealth in space is achieved via Cryoarithmic engines. These are computers that operate in explicit violation of thermodynamics, and "remove" heat by performing calculations. So you stick it next to your engine and get it computing pi all day, and your waste heat is not a problem.
Notably, this setting lacks:
- Force-fields.
- Inertia suppression (comes later on in the chronology, but at the golden age was unknown)
- FTL.
I have no idea about the technology in the foundation setting.
Revelation Space human factions are decidedly unimpressive if they aren't named "The Conjoiners". The most powerful group from the setting are the Inhibitors, who, while still not possessing FTL, would be a serious threat to many Sci-Fi franchises (since as soon as they grabbed one ship, they'd have FTL).
The melding plague was some sort of nanotechnology virus that fused implants people had with their flesh, creating horrific injuries or death in anybody who got it that had those sorts of things. The majority abandoned such things, and as a result transhumanism went into a massive decline, trade slowed or stopped between places to prevent the spread of the plague, and technology went into a general decline.
They had access to a number of Conjoiner starships known as 'lighthuggers', named as such because they creep along at 0.999... C. They are massive, in the order of thousands of tonnes from memory, and iirc are more than 1 KM long. They use some sort of ram-scoop drive to achieve these velocities. The demarchists are unable to produce these ships on their own, because they have a Conjoiner drive in them, and the technology those run on is totally unknown to the Demarchists (and they tend to explode if you try to open them up to reverse engineer them). These drives are prized because they are apparently reactionless, although they are only capable of getting you up to a small fraction of C before they cut out (the scoop then kicks in).
Natively produced demarchist vessels use fusion rockets, or possibly antimatter rockets (it's possible with their tech, but antimatter isn't cheap to throw around). Their vessels are capable of skirting the atmosphere of gas giants to refuel. They use fusion or antimatter based missile weapons, as well as various energy weapons of unknown make and operation. One that I remember of the top of my head was called a "Boser". Not quantifiable.
Stealth in space is achieved via Cryoarithmic engines. These are computers that operate in explicit violation of thermodynamics, and "remove" heat by performing calculations. So you stick it next to your engine and get it computing pi all day, and your waste heat is not a problem.
Notably, this setting lacks:
- Force-fields.
- Inertia suppression (comes later on in the chronology, but at the golden age was unknown)
- FTL.
I have no idea about the technology in the foundation setting.
Revelation Space human factions are decidedly unimpressive if they aren't named "The Conjoiners". The most powerful group from the setting are the Inhibitors, who, while still not possessing FTL, would be a serious threat to many Sci-Fi franchises (since as soon as they grabbed one ship, they'd have FTL).
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.
At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'
'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'
'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Ford Prefect
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Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
Most sold lighthuggers appear to be four kilometres in length. The Conjoiners had some scaled down models though, like the first Nightshade.adam_grif wrote:They are massive, in the order of thousands of tonnes from memory, and iirc are more than 1 KM long.
I'm not sure if the Stoners ever actually got cryoarithmetics from the Conjoiners. Redemption Ark makes them sound like a relatively new technology, from after the outbreak of war.adam_grif wrote:Stealth in space is achieved via Cryoarithmic engines.
Conjoiner drives are actually linked, by wormholes, to a very short time after the Big Bang, and work by drawing on the quark gluon plasma soup of the early universe.adam_grif wrote:They use some sort of ram-scoop drive to achieve these velocities ... These drives are prized because they are apparently reactionless, although they are only capable of getting you up to a small fraction of C before they cut out (the scoop then kicks in).
Anyway, the primary weapon used by Demarchists in their war with the Conjoiners were thousand-kiometre long single shot mass drivers powered by chain detonating nuclear weapons which flung foam-phase hydrogen roundsat some sickeningly huge volume of cee.
What is Project Zohar?
Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
It only looks hard. The exclusion of FTL or magic toys that violate multiple laws of physics at once gives it that feel. Their stuff only breaks one at a time!it would then become pages upon pages of people playing up the technology of Revelation Space while babbling about how hard the series is.
Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
Yeah I knew they were huge, but I couldn't remember any exact figures.Most sold lighthuggers appear to be four kilometres in length.
I thought the conjoiner drives only boosted them up to a certain velocity then the main drive (the ram scoop) kicked in to get it the rest of the way up to C? Could have sworn this was explained in RS.Conjoiner drives are actually linked, by wormholes, to a very short time after the Big Bang, and work by drawing on the quark gluon plasma soup of the early universe.
Fair enough.I'm not sure if the Stoners ever actually got cryoarithmetics from the Conjoiners. Redemption Ark makes them sound like a relatively new technology, from after the outbreak of war.
Oh, is that all?Anyway, the primary weapon used by Demarchists in their war with the Conjoiners were thousand-kiometre long single shot mass drivers powered by chain detonating nuclear weapons which flung foam-phase hydrogen roundsat some sickeningly huge volume of cee.
Depressingly, this weapon is not even that impressive by SciFi standards. I weep for humanity. This one time I read about a weapon that supposedly used an ammo-belt of suns, and focused it's beam through seven spinning black holes. Or something.
They only break unimportant ones. You know, like thermodynamics.It only looks hard. The exclusion of FTL or magic toys that violate multiple laws of physics at once gives it that feel. Their stuff only breaks one at a time!
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.
At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'
'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'
'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Ford Prefect
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Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
A scoop is mentioned in Revelation Space, but Conjoiner drives run the whole shebang - they don't switch to another drive type, as the Conjoiner drives are literally the main engines. Exactly what the scoop is for isn't exactly clear, given the plan in Absolution Gap to use the Nostalgia for Infinity ro alter a small moon's rotation. It might just be camoflage.adam_grif wrote:I thought the conjoiner drives only boosted them up to a certain velocity then the main drive (the ram scoop) kicked in to get it the rest of the way up to C? Could have sworn this was explained in RS.
It's not actually all that impressive by the standards of the setting. The Conjoiner equivalent can actually be used multiple times, for example, and then that there are the Hell class weapons, the most powerful of which is a one-shot planet killer with almost interstellar range.Depressingly, this weapon is not even that impressive by SciFi standards.
What is Project Zohar?
Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.
Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
Yes, I have read the first 2 in the series. Well, I got 4/5 through Redemption Ark and put it on hold when Semester started up again. Will finish it during the break...and then that there are the Hell class weapons, the most powerful of which is a one-shot planet killer with almost interstellar range.
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.
At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'
'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'
'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
Re: Demarchists vs Foundation
From "The Prefect" (which are set during the "Golden Age") I get the impression that although they have pacifist tendencies during their golden age, they hinted at various war weapons which are kept in deep-storage in case they were ever needed again.
One such weapons would be the weevils, which were unleashed by a rogue AI. Said weapon was able to launch a zerg swarm like attacks from the resources of four habitats. I would hazard that the resources of the Glitter Band (a band of 10,000 habitats orbiting Yellowstone) together with Yellowstone would be significant.
One such weapons would be the weevils, which were unleashed by a rogue AI. Said weapon was able to launch a zerg swarm like attacks from the resources of four habitats. I would hazard that the resources of the Glitter Band (a band of 10,000 habitats orbiting Yellowstone) together with Yellowstone would be significant.