The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Jamesfirecat]

Two chapters in one day, YEAH!

Noticed the none too subtle Turtledove reference though I'm not quite sure what to make of it since it seemed to be more or less just there, rather than praising or shellacking the man's work.

Either way I look forward to what's to come and hope that Stewart has been saving up chapters for us, the pain of waiting for antoehr chapter to come is only going to get worse as we get closer and closer to the end....

[Simon_Jester]

Wow. Two in a row. This is definitely good.

I can certainly see Lee having problems with concepts like the revised definitions of "in range" and the scale of operational movements. My impression of his tactics is that he was in some ways a Napoleonic commander who was already a bit out of his depth dealing with rifled muskets, as illustrated by Pickett's Charge. He'd have been getting flattened in exercises even with World War One technology until he'd had time to adjust... which could end up taking a very long time, noting that WWI generals born half a century after Lee did not always adjust even when confronted with the evidence directly.

I said it first.

I acknowledge your priority, O Ninja from Scotland.

My eyes just crossed and I think I lost a few points of eyesight at the sheer awesome.
Amphibious Marine assault on heaven, FUCK YEAH!

The quote is drawn from the end of the last verse of Halls of Montezuma, formally known as the Marines' Hymn, for anyone who missed the reference.

[Night_stalker]

I think that the Angels are in for one very BIG wakeup call. I think a barrage of MLRS, coupled with 155 shells would do nicely for showing them how the humans react to being lied to for 2,000 years!

[Nematocyst]

First three chapters in three days, now two chapters in one? Glorious.

[Guardsman Bass]

*Cheers* Yay, the invasion has begun! I'm eagerly waiting for what will happen when it reaches the holy city (and the vast slums outside of it), as well as the scene when it becomes clear to Yahweh that Michael-Lan has betrayed him.

Maion survived. This should prove . . . interesting, for Michael-Lan's plan once the humans start investigating after the conquest of Heaven. I don't think it will really throw his plan awry, though, as long as the humans don't discover that Michael-Lan was behind many of the attacks from Heaven. "He might be a shady bastard, but he's our bastard, and keeping the peace among the Host" or something like that.

[westrim]

For some reason the only question I had after reading this newest chapter was; does Lee like dark chocolate?

[Stuart]

I said it first.

I acknowledge your priority, O Ninja from Scotland.

Actually Chewie came up with it first and emailed the idea (along with the information that the Eternal City had a vast lake in the middle) to me. All goes to prove that great minds think alike

The quote is drawn from the end of the last verse of Halls of Montezuma, formally known as the Marines' Hymn, for anyone who missed the reference.

There's a reference within a reference there. A character called Skippy once wrote a list "213 things Skippy is no longer allowed to do in the United States Army" (which implies the unnerving item of data that Skippy had actually done them).

Number seven on the list is "Not allowed to add “In accordance with the prophesies” to the end of answers I give to any question an officer asks me."

[Valiran]

The prophecies... let me guess:

If the Army and the Navy
ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded
by United States Marines!

My eyes just crossed and I think I lost a few points of eyesight at the sheer awesome.

Amphibious Marine assault on heaven, FUCK YEAH!

Personally, I'm hoping that the river will be wide enough to fit an Iowa-class battleship inside it. Let's see Yah-Yah survive a full barrage of sixteen inch cannons to the face.

[JN1]

Two in one day, excellent.

[Nematocyst]

I remember someone wanting five minutes with his ship, cannons and all, and Yahweh. I say let's give him the honor.

I thought somebody else did part of the things Skippy isn't allowed to do anymore, instead of Skippy doing all of them.

Also, will we see more locales of Heaven other than Heavengate/Alpha and the Eternal City?

[xthetenth]

I'm pretty sure that Skippy's list is of things that he has done or heard about being done in context that would imply them having taken place.

And this schedule is seriously one of the great things in existence, I hope it keeps coming like this, it's absolutely awesome and quite quick.

[Simon_Jester]

I said it first.

I acknowledge your priority, O Ninja from Scotland.

Actually Chewie came up with it first and emailed the idea (along with the information that the Eternal City had a vast lake in the middle) to me. All goes to prove that great minds think alike

Then yea, I acknowledge the priority of the Captain from... ah, Wookiee Planet* even above that of the Ninja from Scotland.

*I can never remember exactly how many double letters go in the name of the Wookiee homeworld in Star Wars...

There's a reference within a reference there. A character called Skippy once wrote a list "213 things Skippy is no longer allowed to do in the United States Army" (which implies the unnerving item of data that Skippy had actually done them).

Number seven on the list is "Not allowed to add “In accordance with the prophesies” to the end of answers I give to any question an officer asks me."

Ah. Cute.

Personally, I'm hoping that the river will be wide enough to fit an Iowa-class battleship inside it. Let's see Yah-Yah survive a full barrage of sixteen inch cannons to the face.

Aaah! No! Not the Iowa-class! To explain why I say this, assuming Stuart doesn't get back and do it first:

-The Iowa-class battleships have insanely huge crews, which makes them far more expensive to operate than a modern warship that can do about the same amount of damage.
-Everyone with actual experience in operating an Iowa-class battleship is on the "painfully old" side; even the ones who served on them in the '80s have about twenty years of service now.
-The Iowa-class battleships have not gotten equipment updates that would be necessary for them to fight alongside a modern navy.
-The Iowa-class battleships are extremely limited compared to modern warships; they lack the long range firepower and other capabilities that we expect from heavy surface combatants.
-Some (if not all) of the Iowa-class battleships have been demilitarized: vital pieces of equipment such as the guns have been disabled and no longer work.

There's probably some other stuff I haven't thought of yet.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Then yea, I acknowledge the priority of the Captain from... ah, Wookiee Planet* even above that of the Ninja from Scotland.

*I can never remember exactly how many double letters go in the name of the Wookiee homeworld in Star Wars...

Kashyyyk. Three y's. I remember it as being 1 more than any human language permits. And Stuart, I'm glad you took up my suggestion. Being as how I know what I suggested, I'll refrain from contributing to the speculation, but its going to be AWESOME.

Fun-fact: Its called the River of Life.

[Nematocyst]

So you have a map or something? Awesome!

[CaptainChewbacca]

So you have a map or something? Awesome!

I don't have a MAP, I have lots and lots of descriptions of Heaven from various sources. Revelations 22 references the 'River of Life' flowing from the throne, and Revelations 4 describes a 'great sea as of glass' before the throne of God at the foot of the temple.

And, practically, a city the size of Heaven as described must have a VERY large source of fresh water.

[Nematocyst]

Lots of descriptions work as well as a map, IMO.

I'm sure someone drew that, but Google (strangely) fails me horribly with TSW-related topics, so it's up to us to make a map...

EDIT: Or not. Doesn't really count as a map, but I'm sure someone will squeeze some tactical use of this.

[Spekio]

So you have a map or something? Awesome!

I don't have a MAP, I have lots and lots of descriptions of Heaven from various sources. Revelations 22 references the 'River of Life' flowing from the throne, and Revelations 4 describes a 'great sea as of glass' before the throne of God at the foot of the temple.

And, practically, a city the size of Heaven as described must have a VERY large source of fresh water.

Hey, can I ask you a personal question? How come you are not offended?
Every single christian I talked about this series of books either told me I was going to hell(or to go to hell).

[Simon_Jester]

1) Who says he's a Christian? Non-Christians can read the Bible too, you know.
2) Assuming he is a Christian, he may simply be a Christian who can appreciate good fiction that he believes not to be true.

It's only flaky and hypersensitive Christians* who will see that and go "Blasphemy! Burn in Hell! Aaargh!" They're doing it because they're very allergic to the suggestion that they are the ones who are wrong, because they must suppress thoughtcrimes against their religious beliefs at all costs. Sort of like Muslims who riot because a cartoonist in another country drew a picture of their founding prophet.

*And boy there sure are a lot of them...

[Nematocyst]

You can know about the Bible without being a Christian.
Or you can be a Christian and still acknowledge opposing views without accepting them as true. Looks like you talked to those that don't: those that believe everything that may slightly contradict their beliefs is a direct attack against them.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Hey, can I ask you a personal question? How come you are not offended?
Every single christian I talked about this series of books either told me I was going to hell(or to go to hell).

The same reason I wasn't offended by the DaVinci Code- Its fiction.

2) Assuming he is a Christian, he may simply be a Christian who can appreciate good fiction that he believes not to be true.

It's only flaky and hypersensitive Christians* who will see that and go "Blasphemy! Burn in Hell! Aaargh!" They're doing it because they're very allergic to the suggestion that they are the ones who are wrong, because they must suppress thoughtcrimes against their religious beliefs at all costs. Sort of like Muslims who riot because a cartoonist in another country drew a picture of their founding prophet.

Exactly. What I take away from this series is that while it IS awesome, I am truly blessed that my God is NOT like the one portrayed here.

I have actually been working for a while on my own, even MORE blasphemous fiction: When Satan was tempting Jesus in the desert, and promised him that all the nations of the earth would fall before him if he would only bow down...

What if Jesus took a knee? I call it Christ the Destroyer, and I'm a bit scared of not only finishing it, but of anyone seeing it. Its a bit more mystical, but still awesome.

[Simon_Jester]

2) Assuming he is a Christian, he may simply be a Christian who can appreciate good fiction that he believes not to be true.

It's only flaky and hypersensitive Christians* who will see that and go "Blasphemy! Burn in Hell! Aaargh!" They're doing it because they're very allergic to the suggestion that they are the ones who are wrong, because they must suppress thoughtcrimes against their religious beliefs at all costs. Sort of like Muslims who riot because a cartoonist in another country drew a picture of their founding prophet.

Exactly. What I take away from this series is that while it IS awesome, I am truly blessed that my God is NOT like the one portrayed here.

What makes it bitterly ironic, to me at least, is that the flaky "BLASPHEMY!" Christians' concept of God is more like the Salvation War's Yahweh than your concept of God is... and you're the one reading the story.

[Spekio]

Oh, I recall someone saying he was a mormon in another thread. And his brother said he was a mormon here That´s why I am asking.

The thing is: Even christians with whom I usually discuss religion with in civilized terms got offended by TSW. Apparently, saying that their god doesn´t exist is better than reading a book where humans wage war on him. Or that he is evil(I am assuming they never read His Dark Materials or something similar, heh.)

----EDIT---
@Chewie
Got to admire this approach of yours. Frankly it is (for me) unnusual.

[Stuart]

Every single christian I talked about this series of books either told me I was going to hell(or to go to hell).

Well, I've been threatened with a sharp increase in room temperature following my demise . . . .

Seriously, I think you must have been really unlucky in who you've been talking to on this. My experience so far is that the really vituperative comments and obsessive hatred for the book have come from a tiny minority who make up in noise what they lack in numbers. Mostly they track back to one or two locations and the poor guys must be going around barefoot given all the sock puppets they've been creating.

Mostly, the response from the religious has been similar to Chewie's "Not our God" - and the story has been written specifically to allow for that viewpoint. Viewed from a religious point of view (one of several 'levels" on which the story can be interpreted), it can be regarded as a warning parable about how evil gains its entry to people's hearts by masquerading as and subverting good. In that context, the lesson is not that religion is bad but that it can be subverted and used by the bad to further their own ends. It is therefore necessary to compare the actual lessons of the faith with what its proponents claim to see if they are 'of the true faith" or not. In Armageddon, the Quakers, Amish and a few other groups do this, they look at what their faith proclaims, look at what is being demanded of them and say "This cannot be our God." They dismiss it and continue in their search for their true God.

Nor is a worthy cause destroyed by evil subverting and taking it over a purely religious event. We can all think of various organizations and causes that started out with justifiable and honorable objectives and got taken over by others who twisted their message out of all recognition.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Oh, I recall someone saying he was a mormon in another thread. And his brother said he was a mormon here That´s why I am asking.

The thing is: Even christians with whom I usually discuss religion with in civilized terms got offended by TSW. Apparently, saying that their god doesn´t exist is better than reading a book where humans wage war on him. Or that he is evil(I am assuming they never read His Dark Materials or something similar, heh.)

----EDIT---
@Chewie
Got to admire this approach of yours. Frankly it is (for me) unnusual.

Thanks for the admiration. Just to clarify, Kodiak is my brother, and HE is mormon. I'm just a well-read protestant who thinks a whole lot. Sorry the Christians you're meeting are dicks, sometimes that's how it goes.

[Simon_Jester]

Seriously, I think you must have been really unlucky in who you've been talking to on this. My experience so far is that the really vituperative comments and obsessive hatred for the book have come from a tiny minority who make up in noise what they lack in numbers. Mostly they track back to one or two locations and the poor guys must be going around barefoot given all the sock puppets they've been creating.

Those are the people who are wacked out enough to actually try and harass the author. There's going to be a larger demographic of people who hate the book but are quite prepared to let you go to Hell in your own time. They're the ones Spekio is running into.