Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Big Orange »

As with all that water intensive farming sucking the lakes and reservoirs dry in Nevada, the same problems loom in the Punjab:
India's Farming 'Revolution' Heading For Collapse

Farmers in the village of Chotia Khurd in northern India don't realize it, but they symbolize a growing problem that could become a global crisis.

They gathered on a recent morning in a stone-paved courtyard — a circle of Sikhs with brightly colored turbans and big, bushy beards — to explain why the famed "bread basket" of India is heading toward collapse.

Their comparatively small region, Punjab, grows far more wheat and rice for India than any other region. But now these farmers are running out of groundwater.

They have to buy three times as much fertilizer as they did 30 years ago to grow the same amount of crops. They blitz their crops with pesticides, but insects have become so resistant that they still often destroy large portions of crops.

The state's agriculture "has become unsustainable and nonprofitable," according to a recent report by the Punjab State Council for Science and Technology. Some experts say the decline could happen rapidly, over the next decade or so.

One of the best-known names in India's farming industry puts it in even starker terms. If farmers in Punjab don't dramatically change the way they grow India's food, says G.S. Kalkat, chairman of the Punjab State Farmers Commission, they could trigger a modern Dust Bowl. That American disaster in the 1930s laid waste to millions of acres of farmland and forced hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes.

The story of Chotia Khurd is a cautionary tale: Political leaders and scientists can't necessarily transplant a technology from one country and culture to a vastly different one and expect it to flourish without serious side effects.

The 'Green Revolution'

The story begins in the 1960s, when parents in America's well-fed suburbs would admonish ungrateful children to "think about the starving people in India." Occasional news reports told wrenching stories about Indians subsisting on grass and leaves. The country survived on imports, like a beggar.

The public concern prompted a loose coalition of scientists, government officials and philanthropists — spurred and funded, in part, by the Rockefeller Foundation —to launch a "Green Revolution."

In the context of the times, "green" did not refer to what it means today — organic, pesticide-free farming methods. To the contrary, India's farmers were persuaded to abandon their traditional methods and grow crops the modern, American way.

For example, the advisers told farmers to stop growing old-fashioned grains, beans and vegetables and switch to new, high-yield varieties of wheat, rice and cotton. Farmers began using chemical fertilizers instead of cow dung. They plowed with tractors instead of bulls.

The "Green Revolution" of the 1960s and 1970s meant that if farmers embraced chemicals and high-yield seeds, their fields would turn lush green with crops. (An official at the U.S. State Department, William Gaud, apparently coined the term in 1968.)

During the Cold War, the term also implied that if countries like India could stamp out hunger, the population would be less likely to foment a violent revolution and go communist.

A Temporary Fix

In India, ground zero for the Green Revolution was the state of Punjab, which borders Pakistan and the foothills of the Himalayas. And the system seemed to work miracles — for a while.

The United States sent money and technical support, including advisers from one of America's most prestigious agriculture universities. India's government showered Punjab with low-cost chemicals and seeds — and they paid the farmers, in effect, to use them by guaranteeing minimum prices for Green Revolution crops.

It helped India transform itself from a nation that depends on imports and food aid to a budding superpower that often exports grains.

Villages like Chotia Khurd were harvesting three to four times as much grain per acre as they did before.

Many of the farmers and the local government were flush with money. They paved their dirt roads. The farmers replaced their mud houses with bricks and cement. They bought American tractors for a small fortune.

Just about everybody in Chotia Khurd bought cell phones, with a wide variety of ring tones — so it's hard to chat with a farmer without getting interrupted by electronic versions of Sikh chants or theme songs from Bollywood hits.

But government reports and farmers themselves say that era is over — and today, the Green Revolution system of farming is heading toward collapse.

'Farmers Are Committing A Kind Of Suicide'

To show why, the district director of the Punjab Agriculture Department, Palwinder Singh, leads the way up a narrow dirt road into wheat fields that encircle the village.

On the surface, they look robust. The countryside is electric green in every direction.

But Singh points to a large contraption rising above the crop, like a steel praying mantis. The machine is blanketing the countryside with a percussive, deafening roar.

"That's part of our most serious problem," he says. It's a drilling rig. A young farmer in a purple turban, Sandeep Singh, is standing next to the rig, looking unhappy. (The two men are not related — according to tradition, all Sikh men share the last name "Singh," which means "lion.")

When farmers switched from growing a variety of traditional crops to high-yield wheat and rice, they also had to make other changes. There wasn't enough rainwater to grow thirsty "miracle" seeds, so farmers had to start irrigating with groundwater. They hired drilling companies to dig wells, and they started pumping groundwater onto the fields.

But Sandeep says he has been forced to hire the drilling company again, because the groundwater under his fields has been sinking as much as 3 feet every year.

Government surveys confirm it. In fact, his family and other farmers have had to deepen their wells every few years — from 10 feet to 20 feet to 40 feet, and now to more than 200 feet — because the precious water table keeps dropping below their reach.

Nobody was surprised when environmental activists started warning years ago that the Green Revolution was heading toward disaster. But they were astonished as government officials started to agree.

"Farmers are committing a kind of suicide," warns Kalkat, the director of the Punjab State Farmers Commission. "It's like a suicide, en masse."

Kalkat offers an unsettling prediction in a nation whose population is growing faster than any other on Earth: If farmers don't drastically revamp the system of farming, the heartland of India's agriculture could be barren in 10 to 15 years.
NPR

Alongside the unsustainable, explosive populations, this seems to be another blow back from trying to properly feed the Third World. Big, insane cartels like Monsanto have also been supplying Indian famers with dodgy seeds to generate more profits.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Master of Cards »

Whats your issue with Monsanto? How are their pratices insane and where are articles about Monsanto sending substandard product overseas?
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Master of Cards wrote:Whats your issue with Monsanto? How are their pratices insane and where are articles about Monsanto sending substandard product overseas?
Monsanto has a well documented tendency to keep farmers under their boot by using the hammer of local law to keep farmers from replanting seeds that do not already have a self termination gene, forcing said farmers to keep buying from them year after year (and suing them when they stop, and end up having GM seeds in their crops because the farmers could not get everything out). I wont say their products are dodgy, but their corporate practices are pure evil (and dont get me started on growth hormones)
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Murazor »

Master of Cards wrote:Whats your issue with Monsanto? How are their pratices insane and where are articles about Monsanto sending substandard product overseas?
I am guessing that he mentions Monsanto, because that company is the largest supplier of seeds in the entire world and widely regarded not so long ago as a majorly unfriendly giant with rather lax ethical standards. There was a monographic issue of The Ecologist that explored the activities of the company in mildly alarming detail.

Practices that can be regarded as not terribly sane include the Terminator technology (that they pledged not to use, after a serious international outcry about the whole thing) and the development of crops resistant to herbicides (of the type designed by Monsanto, of course) to increase sales of weed killers. While it makes sense from the company's point of view with maxing short term profit as the goal, the logic behind increasing the amount of toxic substances in the human diet is pretty damn shaky.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Erik von Nein »

So, I wonder something: will the current prime minister of India be nearly as flippant about not doing anything to halt India's environmental destruction as he was during the Copenhagen talks? Not that I honestly expect India to change much of anything, for not other reason than changing massive amounts of India's production to something less environmentally destruction has to overcome so much inertia that it'll likely be impossible.

So far as Monsanto is concerned it doesn't take much searching to find that they're a company devoted to the most unethical business practices in the world. These include suing farmers who live next to other farmers who grow Monsanto's product, assuming that they have stolen seeds and are planting them, locking customers into buying Round-up Ready products with any options, and various other strong-arm tactics.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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Murazor wrote:Practices that can be regarded as not terribly sane include the Terminator technology (that they pledged not to use, after a serious international outcry about the whole thing)
It was basically a way of protecting their modified varieties. Not exactly nice or generous, but if the farmers are getting seeds from them yearly anyways, what's the big deal?
Murazor wrote: and the development of crops resistant to herbicides (of the type designed by Monsanto, of course) to increase sales of weed killers.
That, and making it easier to keep weeds down by allowing farmers to kill them as quickly as possible without killing most of their crops in the process (that's why they created Roundup-resistant crops in the first place). It's risky if you overuse a specific type of herbicide (since that increases the chance that you'll get a weed variety that is resistant to it), but it's not necessarily a bad idea.
Murazor wrote: While it makes sense from the company's point of view with maxing short term profit as the goal, the logic behind increasing the amount of toxic substances in the human diet is pretty damn shaky.
Do you have any proof that these "toxins" are a threat to humans via consumption? In what dosage are they dangerous?
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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Do you have any proof that these "toxins" are a threat to humans via consumption? In what dosage are they dangerous?
Yes. Many of them act as endocrine system disruptors in vertebrates. They can sex-reverse, and suppress the immune system of frogs at levels an order of magnitude below what is permitted in our drinking water. This is alarming because their endocrine and immune systems are almost identical to our own. Moreover, because of their widespread use, they are found in high concentrations (relative to what can sex reverse a frog) in large numbers of watersheds, particularly in the US.

This is allowed to occur because our FDA and EPA are basically in the pockets of chemical manufacturers like Monsanto (and a few others). To the point that they accept the recommendations of industry-created panels that legitimate scientists (Like TB Hayes) have shown to be engaging in academic fraud (using of all things, Fishers Exact Tests).

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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Do you have any proof that these "toxins" are a threat to humans via consumption? In what dosage are they dangerous?
Yes. Many of them act as endocrine system disruptors in vertebrates. They can sex-reverse, and suppress the immune system of frogs at levels an order of magnitude below what is permitted in our drinking water. This is alarming because their endocrine and immune systems are almost identical to our own. Moreover, because of their widespread use, they are found in high concentrations (relative to what can sex reverse a frog) in large numbers of watersheds, particularly in the US.
Interesting, and good to know. If I remember right, you're a biologist researching snakes (herpetologist?) - have you come across that in your field research?
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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I thought this was going to be a discussion about falling water tables? There have been many Monsanto debates here in the past IIRC.

What I'm wondering is how widespread this problem is globally, how soon it will be until it really starts to hit other industrialized countries like the US, China and western Europe, and what the plans (if any) that exists to deal with it?
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Phantasee »

What's the alternative for them? Stop farming?
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Guardsman Bass wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Do you have any proof that these "toxins" are a threat to humans via consumption? In what dosage are they dangerous?
Yes. Many of them act as endocrine system disruptors in vertebrates. They can sex-reverse, and suppress the immune system of frogs at levels an order of magnitude below what is permitted in our drinking water. This is alarming because their endocrine and immune systems are almost identical to our own. Moreover, because of their widespread use, they are found in high concentrations (relative to what can sex reverse a frog) in large numbers of watersheds, particularly in the US.
Interesting, and good to know. If I remember right, you're a biologist researching snakes (herpetologist?) - have you come across that in your field research?
I work with predator-prey interactions between tadpoles and snakes. I have not checked the sex of my tadpoles (only way is through genetics). I have no way of knowing in the populations I study, and wouldn't unless I were to do an extensive survey of amphibians and sex them all. Hmm.... good side project though.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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cosmicalstorm wrote:I thought this was going to be a discussion about falling water tables? There have been many Monsanto debates here in the past IIRC.

What I'm wondering is how widespread this problem is globally, how soon it will be until it really starts to hit other industrialized countries like the US, China and western Europe, and what the plans (if any) that exists to deal with it?
It already is. Aquifers have started to collapse in on themselves, wells have run dry, many rivers in the western US never reach the ocean because water demand is so high...
What's the alternative for them? Stop farming?
2 options:

1)Accept massive draconian population control to bring the population under the 4 billion sustainable using traditional methods/allow 3 billion people to starve,

2)Using public funding, genetically modify extremely drought resistant crops and make the seeds freely available.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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I meant the Punjab farmers, specifically. There aren't 3 billion of them to starve.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Traveller »

Welcome to the downside of the so-called "Green Revolution". The headlines could well read 'American Farming faces collapse' in the near future. Americans, well pretty much everyone else

http://www.eoearth.org/article/Aquifer_depletion

is doing it too. While this article is specifically mentions groundwater depletion, all the other signs of industrial farming collapse are mentioned as well, pesticide resistance and soil depletion. The depletion of water to feed the industrial farm system, exported to India is a symptom, but not the ultimate cause of the problem. We in North America would do well to pay close attention to the situation described above as we are anything but immune to the same threats to our own food supply. After all, we are the ones that exported it to India in the first place...
The state's agriculture "has become unsustainable and nonprofitable


This sums up the problem with Industrial style agriculture, whether its in India or Indianna. In fact, this pecular form of farming is being hit from all sides. One being water as mentioned, the second being pesticide resistance, and the last being the end of cheap Oil. There is a forth element, that being the immense subsidies, mainly from western goverments(US being by far the worst). At this moment, the continued flow of US dollars to underwrite this un-sustainable form of agriculture is about the only thing not in jeopardy. These probably wont be withdrawn even after this sytem finally collapses for good. In fact, subsidies are the only reason "modern" farming is even remotely profitable. This article could just as well be called, "The shape of things to come". :(
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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cosmicalstorm wrote:I thought this was going to be a discussion about falling water tables? There have been many Monsanto debates here in the past IIRC.

What I'm wondering is how widespread this problem is globally, how soon it will be until it really starts to hit other industrialized countries like the US, China and western Europe, and what the plans (if any) that exists to deal with it?
If you're talking about just water tables - not all of America's breadbasket region is dependent on irrigation. For example, the farms in my area don't use groundwater at all, there is sufficient rainfall most years to provide the water needed for crops.

(Needless to say, in drought years the fields mostly die, as there is no irrigation system to take over when rains fail.... but that's not a new problem in agriculture, and it's uncommon enough that no one is seriously considering irrigation around here)

However, in the western half of the breadbasket underground aquifers are being rapidly depleted with few planes for what happens next. In some places the strategy is to divert rivers, sometimes entire rivers, but they're discovering that there are limits to that, too.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Scottish Ninja »

Broomstick wrote:
cosmicalstorm wrote:I thought this was going to be a discussion about falling water tables? There have been many Monsanto debates here in the past IIRC.

What I'm wondering is how widespread this problem is globally, how soon it will be until it really starts to hit other industrialized countries like the US, China and western Europe, and what the plans (if any) that exists to deal with it?
If you're talking about just water tables - not all of America's breadbasket region is dependent on irrigation. For example, the farms in my area don't use groundwater at all, there is sufficient rainfall most years to provide the water needed for crops.

(Needless to say, in drought years the fields mostly die, as there is no irrigation system to take over when rains fail.... but that's not a new problem in agriculture, and it's uncommon enough that no one is seriously considering irrigation around here)

However, in the western half of the breadbasket underground aquifers are being rapidly depleted with few planes for what happens next. In some places the strategy is to divert rivers, sometimes entire rivers, but they're discovering that there are limits to that, too.
And doesn't this typically lead to wrangling over whether or not they should be able to use water from the Great Lakes? I recall hearing about this every now and then, usually beginning over some small town barely outside the Great Lakes watershed that wants to use that water, and talking about the reverse flow of the Chicago River as justification.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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Alyrium Denryle wrote:
What's the alternative for them? Stop farming?
2 options:
1)Accept massive draconian population control to bring the population under the 4 billion sustainable using traditional methods/allow 3 billion people to starve,

2)Using public funding, genetically modify extremely drought resistant crops and make the seeds freely available.
A little from column A, a little from column B, I'd say...
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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Column A is easy. Restrict women to having no more than two children. And then watch western democracies crumble because most women (not to mention men) likely don't want to have such limits even if it makes sense, and they can be loud enough to convince enough people who don't care one way or the other. Unfortunately, when population growth is allowed to go uncontrolled, it quickly grows exponentially. Were that not an issue, however, you can watch the global population slowly decline to a more manageable number through attrition. Accidents still happen. Not all children will reach an adult age where they can make more children.

Column B? Good idea, and if you can keep companies like Monsanto from being a problem, it would go a long way, but there are also probably changes that would have to take place in farming itself to make it sustainable enough.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Samuel »

Except growth isn't so high in western countries. The easiest method (for the wealthy) would be drive up the cost of living. Try to get people to live denser to free up more productive land and encourage smaller families- I think you just need to raise the price of gasoline enough, but I'm not sure if it has an effect below punative.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Except growth isn't so high in western countries.
No, but high life expectancy creates a lag time between a drop in population growth and a drop in population. The actual population of western countries will not start to drop, even if we got growth below replacement to tomorrow, for another 20-30 years, once the baby boomers start to die in earnest. That is too long.
The easiest method (for the wealthy) would be drive up the cost of living.
And how exactly would this be done intentionally?
Try to get people to live denser to free up more productive land
Wouldn't do a damn thing. The amount of food that would be required would not change, and the amount of land freed up by this would be minuscule.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

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Alyrium Denryle wrote:2 options:

1)Accept massive draconian population control to bring the population under the 4 billion sustainable using traditional methods/allow 3 billion people to starve,

2)Using public funding, genetically modify extremely drought resistant crops and make the seeds freely available.
How about:

"None of the above"; as has been chosen by the CHICOMS:

Step 1.) ATOMIC POWER UBER ALLES.

Step 2.) Genetically modify food crops to love seawater. Problem of irrigation/desalinazation solved. (they've done this).
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by K. A. Pital »

Step 2 isn't completed as far as I know, beyond the test phase of making salt-resistant crops here at Hainan University (I live about 500 m away from it), it still isn't massively implemented.

Both steps will require time. Seawater irrigation alleviates some problems, but it can't fully alleviate the production crunch in freshwater-irrigated lands, unless I'm badly mistaken about it's territorial capacity (because plants still need soils, etc.). It's useful to turn shores and salty swamps near ocean shores into farmland, but that's the end of it. You can't plant without soil.
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by mr friendly guy »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
The easiest method (for the wealthy) would be drive up the cost of living.
And how exactly would this be done intentionally?
I do have a few suggestions although they could themselves cause problems in themselves or are simply political poison. Whether these themselves will be worth their own costs is another matter, but since you only asked how to drive up the cost of living :wink: so in no particular order

1. Stop handouts to the middle class - in Australia we pay people to have kids and give a grant to buy housing for first home buyers. Cost of living gone up relative to income. Actually we should decrease some of the hand outs to the lower class to in regards to the "Baby bonus." Can't afford the kids, have less of them.

2. Pump liquidity into the system. Note I really don't want this to happen because of what easy credit did to the economies of the world. However I believe this would cause the prices of things like houses to go up as the banks are willing to lend more. This in turn means more money to the mortgage and higher cost of living as a result.

3. Increase taxes. Most probably the most benign one, but as you can imagine will be unpopular.
MKSheppard wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:2 options:

1)Accept massive draconian population control to bring the population under the 4 billion sustainable using traditional methods/allow 3 billion people to starve,

2)Using public funding, genetically modify extremely drought resistant crops and make the seeds freely available.
How about:

"None of the above"; as has been chosen by the CHICOMS:

Step 1.) ATOMIC POWER UBER ALLES.

Step 2.) Genetically modify food crops to love seawater. Problem of irrigation/desalinazation solved. (they've done this).
Got a link to step two. I am interested in how these crops perform, ie do they have as much yield as natural or other GM crops.
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K. A. Pital
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Re: Indian Farming Faces Collapse.

Post by K. A. Pital »

They have similar yields and taste, and intergenerational survivability (tested to an extent), but the crops may not be stable enough.
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