Earth Alliance vs. Turian Hierarchy (Mass Effect)

[Enigma]

So the Mass Relay would not be affected if an EA fleet tries to open up a jump point in the middle of it?

[Stargazer]

If the jump point is not big enough, and the jump point doesn't put enough stress on the relay to tear it apart, then I would think not. It's not really a tactic the EA is known to use anyways.

[Balrog]

the beacon system itself is located in Hyperspace IIRC, so the Turians would have a harder time disabling it if they can't hop between dimensions.

I'm going to have to ask for evidence of this, given that the Centauri destroying Jump gates in real space was apparently causing the beacon system to be destroyed as well.

The exact quote is "That's insane. Wars come and go, but the jump gates have to remain otherwise the entire Hyperspace beacon system falls apart."

The implication is that if you take out the Jump Gates, you take out the beacons

If we're both thinking of the same episode, they were doing some Jump point trick with auto-piloted ships that would take out the gates on both sides (real and hyperspace), but then it has been awhile. The ones in hyperspace might need the realspace gates as their anchor. Plus as has been pointed out, taking them out is only going to piss off everyone else and start more wars.

One other thing that hasn't been answered, is the entire Mass Relay network also magically transported into B5, or only that which is located within Turian space? Because a lot of the Relays are only two-way connections. And just how many relays are there in Turian space?

This coin flips both ways. While the turians will not be able to anticipate an EA fleet coming out of hyperspace, neither will the EA be able to anticipate a turian fleet coming in at realspace FTL. The turians also have the potential advantage of tactical FTL- they can quickly get out of the EA's weapons range, but still be within their own range.

However, EA does have FTL sensors; they used tachyon sensors to detect the time-traveling spacial anomaly that sent B4 back for example.

Mass relays are required for travel between star clusters, but regular FTL can still go between systems in those clusters. The turians have an advantage in that initially the EA will be very limited in the attacks they can stage- they may be able to figure out the mass relays, but then it will still be moving at a snail's pace to the strategic targets in the system, so the turians can easily outmaneuver them. Systems not connected by mass relays will be entirely inaccessible to the EA.

Unless you're putting them in a completely unexplored part of the galaxy, there'll be a beacon system for the EA to use at the start.

Destruction of mass relays by the EA will be impossible, unless the EA suddenly starts shooting supernova-level firepower.

It sounds like you're assuming it took the full energy of a supernova just to move it. Do we know how close that Relay was to its star when the supernova happened, was it in the path of a gamma ray burst?

That should surprise the turians, but they can certainly fire back at that range, or extricate themselves to a longer range. The turians only have 39 dreadnoughts, but they should have many more cruisers and frigates.

None of which can put out or survive the kind of firepower directed by their Dreadnoughts or EA ships, even assuming your numbers are correct. Especially firepower that completely negates their main defensive function, and given that EA point defenses outranges ME they can intercept their shots a lot sooner.

If the jump point is not big enough, and the jump point doesn't put enough stress on the relay to tear it apart, then I would think not. It's not really a tactic the EA is known to use anyways.

Because most of their targets aren't a couple times larger than B5

True, and it would be more tactically advantageous for them to gain access to the jumpgate network anyway (probably by trading the gravity control capabilities of element zero to the Centauri or Narn, especially the latter have no gravity control at all whilst Centauri have it but theirs is relatively crude, and are happy to sell to powers at war), since otherwise everything is a few days travel away for them (Fortunately, the B5 powers are actually all quite close together, all within a hundred or so LY of the station, so even without Mass Relay FTL the Turians can get places, but the tactical advantage of dropping on people from hyperspace would be something they'd like to have).

They might show them how to operate the gate network, but it's doubtful the Turians could buy jump point generators and start retrofitting their fleet, at least not in any considerable timeframe.

[Stargazer]

However, EA does have FTL sensors; they used tachyon sensors to detect the time-traveling spacial anomaly that sent B4 back for example.

How does detecting a space anomaly make those sensors FTL?

Unless you're putting them in a completely unexplored part of the galaxy, there'll be a beacon system for the EA to use at the start.

A beacon system for them to use in their own space, but not turian space.

It sounds like you're assuming it took the full energy of a supernova just to move it. Do we know how close that Relay was to its star when the supernova happened, was it in the path of a gamma ray burst?

The relay got pushed out of its system by the supernova- that should give an idea of the energy imparted to it. Also, mass relays are made of the same material as the Citadel arms, which are estimated to be able to take days of continuous bombardment with even the most advanced weapons in Mass Effect.

None of which can put out or survive the kind of firepower directed by their Dreadnoughts or EA ships, even assuming your numbers are correct. Especially firepower that completely negates their main defensive function, and given that EA point defenses outranges ME they can intercept their shots a lot sooner.

I did calculations a while back that put cruiser firepower at single-digit kiloton level. For example, to ascertain the output of a 400 meter mass accelerator from the given info on an 800 meter accelerator firing a 20 kg slug:

Find the rate of acceleration per meter: 4025000/800= 5031 m/s/s. Half of that rate of acceleration would be 2516 m/ss. Multiplied by 400, we get 1006000 m/s muzzle velocity. Plug that into the Kinetic Energy equation: KE=(1006000^2)*20*.5=1.012e13 joules. Divide by 4.184e9 to get the yield in tons of TNT: 2419 tons, or 2.419 kilotons. Divide the slug's mass in half and we still get a yield of 1.209 kilotons.

[lord Martiya]

If the jump point is not big enough, and the jump point doesn't put enough stress on the relay to tear it apart, then I would think not. It's not really a tactic the EA is known to use anyways.

Actually, EA used jump points as weapons during the Earth-Minbari War, in the so-called Bonehead Manouver (basically they opened a jump point in an active jumpgate, creating an explosion strong enough to destroy a Shadow battlecrab (observed on screen). The downside was that no EA ship was fast enough to escape the explosion). The problem is not if they may use jump points as weapons, it's if whatever they use can destroy the relay. And if the EA can find them.

[Stargazer]

Actually, EA used jump points as weapons during the Earth-Minbari War, in the so-called Bonehead Manouver (basically they opened a jump point in an active jumpgate, creating an explosion strong enough to destroy a Shadow battlecrab (observed on screen). The downside was that no EA ship was fast enough to escape the explosion). The problem is not if they may use jump points as weapons, it's if whatever they use can destroy the relay. And if the EA can find them.

Um, can you get your reference straight, please? You say this was done during the Earth-Minbari war, but then say the explosion was strong enough destroy a Shadow battlecrab. Does not compute- the Shadows were not militarily active during the Earth-Minbari war.

[Nephtys]

Actually, EA used jump points as weapons during the Earth-Minbari War, in the so-called Bonehead Manouver (basically they opened a jump point in an active jumpgate, creating an explosion strong enough to destroy a Shadow battlecrab (observed on screen). The downside was that no EA ship was fast enough to escape the explosion). The problem is not if they may use jump points as weapons, it's if whatever they use can destroy the relay. And if the EA can find them.

Um, can you get your reference straight, please? You say this was done during the Earth-Minbari war, but then say the explosion was strong enough destroy a Shadow battlecrab. Does not compute- the Shadows were not militarily active during the Earth-Minbari war.

Sheridan says that's an old trick that was used during the Earth-Minbari war, when he plans to use it against the Shadows. The trick was then able to destroy a Shadow Vessel when applied, suggesting that the same thing would likely be able to destroy at least similar or weaker vessels. So it was either used at least once during the Earth-Minbari war, or is some zany urban spacer legend.

[Stargazer]

Well, I still doubt they will use it; it's still not a standard tactic, and it would make them unable to attack the turians sitting on the other side of the relay.

[Balrog]

However, EA does have FTL sensors; they used tachyon sensors to detect the time-traveling spacial anomaly that sent B4 back for example.

How does detecting a space anomaly make those sensors FTL?

You know, tachyons? Faster-than-light particles?

Unless you're putting them in a completely unexplored part of the galaxy, there'll be a beacon system for the EA to use at the start.

A beacon system for them to use in their own space, but not turian space.

Except you're putting the Turians in Minbari space. And the Minbari had a jumpgate network in their area of space. Unless, as I said, you're eliminating that all together, leaving only the yet-to-be-quantified number of Mass Relays the Turians own.

Though really size is the big issue. Do you even know how large Turian space is? How many planets they have? Because the Minbari had some well-defined borders, and if Turian space suddenly overlaps other empires (especially god forbid the Vorlons) things become sticky.

It sounds like you're assuming it took the full energy of a supernova just to move it. Do we know how close that Relay was to its star when the supernova happened, was it in the path of a gamma ray burst?

The relay got pushed out of its system by the supernova- that should give an idea of the energy imparted to it. Also, mass relays are made of the same material as the Citadel arms, which are estimated to be able to take days of continuous bombardment with even the most advanced weapons in Mass Effect.

Again, if the Relay was far enough away, it's not going to absorb the same amount of energy as if it was, say, right next to the star when it went off. Knowing its distance when the supernova hit would help greatly in calculating that incident and gauging some actual limits to what it can and cannot absorb.

None of which can put out or survive the kind of firepower directed by their Dreadnoughts or EA ships, even assuming your numbers are correct. Especially firepower that completely negates their main defensive function, and given that EA point defenses outranges ME they can intercept their shots a lot sooner.

I did calculations a while back that put cruiser firepower at single-digit kiloton level.

I wasn't talking about firepower, but number of ships you deduced; though it'd be interesting to see you justify some of the assumptions in that calculation, especially a cruiser firing a heaver slug than a dready.

Well, I still doubt they will use it; it's still not a standard tactic, and it would make them unable to attack the turians sitting on the other side of the relay.

Yes, because fighting Turians is also standard practice. We're not talking about automatons here, humans are more than capable of adapting to different scenarios, and if it calls for a few Bonehead Maneuvers, or even just opening a jump point within the Relay, than so be it.

[Vendetta]

If the jump point is not big enough, and the jump point doesn't put enough stress on the relay to tear it apart, then I would think not. It's not really a tactic the EA is known to use anyways.

Actually, EA used jump points as weapons during the Earth-Minbari War, in the so-called Bonehead Manouver (basically they opened a jump point in an active jumpgate, creating an explosion strong enough to destroy a Shadow battlecrab (observed on screen). The downside was that no EA ship was fast enough to escape the explosion). The problem is not if they may use jump points as weapons, it's if whatever they use can destroy the relay. And if the EA can find them.

Although that relies on opening a jumpgate on top of another active jumpgate, a mass relay is not a jumpgate it's a solid object, and the Turians can't use jumpgates anyway, so this tactic will not work on them. It's also, without a ship as fast as a Whitestar, the next best thing to a suicide tactic. Earthforce considered using it in the Earth Minbari war because of how schooled they were getting otherwise. The only way to use the bonehead manoeuvre would be for two earthforce ships to use their jump engines simultaneously, probably destroying at least one because they would need to be close to the explosion and in realspace.

Though really size is the big issue. Do you even know how large Turian space is? How many planets they have? Because the Minbari had some well-defined borders, and if Turian space suddenly overlaps other empires (especially god forbid the Vorlons) things become sticky.

Difficult to say, because of the Mass Relay system, space in Mass Effect is much more widely colonised. Remember that all of Babylon 5 takes place within a pie slice of the galaxy, and the major powers are all within a fairly short distance of B5 itself (12LY to Narn, 75LY to Centauri Prime, and it's unlikely to be much further to Earth or Minbar given travel times on the show). The Turians are the second largest colonial power in Citadel space, and Citadel space appears to be roughly 4/5 of the galaxy. (they have a larger navy, but the Asari have more colonies and a stronger economy). The Turians have been in space longer than the Minbari as well, the Unification War (a war between the then 17 Turian colonies) took place around 700CE, so they had to have time to set up those colonies and for them to become dissociated from each other before then, whereas the Minbari have had spaceflight around 1000 years. It's very likely that the Turians have quite a lot more planets than the Minbari had. Maybe even more than all of the B5 younger races put together, but they'd be scattered over more of the galaxy due to the convenience of Mass Relay travel (and it's not unknown for seperate planets in one system to be colonised by different powers, because a planet suitable for, say the Elcor or Hanar is unlikely to be of any interest to anyone else).

Again, if the Relay was far enough away, it's not going to absorb the same amount of energy as if it was, say, right next to the star when it went off. Knowing its distance when the supernova hit would help greatly in calculating that incident and gauging some actual limits to what it can and cannot absorb.

Most relays are in the outer orbits of their system. However, the relay still absorbed enough energy to physically move it, a 15km object of unknown but mostly metallic construction, that requires a not inconsiderable push.

I wasn't talking about firepower, but number of ships you deduced; though it'd be interesting to see you justify some of the assumptions in that calculation, especially a cruiser firing a heaver slug than a dready.

You can make some assumptions based on the role of cruisers within a fleet in Mass Effect. They're both flank screens in open combat and the ship class most frequently used for combat patrol and operations where a military show of force but not necessarily a major engagement is required, whilst dreadnoughts are reserved for critical fleet engagements. There will undoubtedly be several cruisers for each Dreadnought at least. They will also likely not fall as quickly as you assume, because most of the Earthforce fleet is also going to be heavy cruisers which don't have the heavy long range weapons of the Omega class, they only have the older style pulse cannons, which fire a relatively slowly propagating energy packet (certainly slow compared to the 1.3% of c for a Mass Accelerator on a Mass Effect dreadnought). The instant propagation beam weapons we see Earthforce ships using in the show were purchased from the Narn after the Earth Minbari war, so they're not a factor in this scenario.

[Stargazer]

You know, tachyons? Faster-than-light particles?

They're not spelled out to be FTL sensors, nor are they shown detecting something in a short time beyond light lag range.

Except you're putting the Turians in Minbari space. And the Minbari had a jumpgate network in their area of space. Unless, as I said, you're eliminating that all together, leaving only the yet-to-be-quantified number of Mass Relays the Turians own.

Though really size is the big issue. Do you even know how large Turian space is? How many planets they have? Because the Minbari had some well-defined borders, and if Turian space suddenly overlaps other empires (especially god forbid the Vorlons) things become sticky.

Turian space completely replaces Minbari space. There is no known number of turian colonies, but judging by how many the Systems Alliance had, it's easily dozens. Territory likely spreads across a good part of the galaxy, but let's assume that none of it overlaps other factions- it just stretches outward away from other empires.

Again, if the Relay was far enough away, it's not going to absorb the same amount of energy as if it was, say, right next to the star when it went off. Knowing its distance when the supernova hit would help greatly in calculating that incident and gauging some actual limits to what it can and cannot absorb.

Well, that's info we don't have.

I wasn't talking about firepower, but number of ships you deduced; though it'd be interesting to see you justify some of the assumptions in that calculation, especially a cruiser firing a heaver slug than a dready.

Heavier slug? My calculation used the same slug mass as a dreadnought- 20 kg. Even if the slug mass was half that, the yield would be over a kiloton. As for acceleration, a mass accelerator's muzzle velocity is directly related to its length:

"The primary determinant of a mass accelerator's destructive power is length. The longer the barrel, the longer the slug can be accelerated, the higher the slug's final velocity, and therefore the greater its kinetic impact." (Codex, Ships and Vehicles, Mass Accelerators) However, simply changing the amount of time accelerated gives a 400 meter accelerator one-fourth the speed of an 800 meter accelerator, which is contrary to the stated large superiority of dreadnoughts over everything else. So I adjusted for the rate of acceleration as well as for time accelerated.

Yes, because fighting Turians is also standard practice. We're not talking about automatons here, humans are more than capable of adapting to different scenarios, and if it calls for a few Bonehead Maneuvers, or even just opening a jump point within the Relay, than so be it.

It's not what they will do initially, though.

[Balrog]

Although that relies on opening a jumpgate on top of another active jumpgate, a mass relay is not a jumpgate it's a solid object, and the Turians can't use jumpgates anyway, so this tactic will not work on them. It's also, without a ship as fast as a Whitestar, the next best thing to a suicide tactic. Earthforce considered using it in the Earth Minbari war because of how schooled they were getting otherwise. The only way to use the bonehead manoeuvre would be for two earthforce ships to use their jump engines simultaneously, probably destroying at least one because they would need to be close to the explosion and in realspace.

The Bonehead Maneuver is, as you say, suicide, but that still doesn't stop the EA from trying good old fashion "open up wormhole on top of badguy." They're not as good as the Minbari at it because the process is imprecise, but when your target is as big as a Relay that's not a big problem.

Difficult to say, because of the Mass Relay system, space in Mass Effect is much more widely colonised. Remember that all of Babylon 5 takes place within a pie slice of the galaxy, and the major powers are all within a fairly short distance of B5 itself (12LY to Narn, 75LY to Centauri Prime, and it's unlikely to be much further to Earth or Minbar given travel times on the show). The Turians are the second largest colonial power in Citadel space, and Citadel space appears to be roughly 4/5 of the galaxy. (they have a larger navy, but the Asari have more colonies and a stronger economy). The Turians have been in space longer than the Minbari as well, the Unification War (a war between the then 17 Turian colonies) took place around 700CE, so they had to have time to set up those colonies and for them to become dissociated from each other before then, whereas the Minbari have had spaceflight around 1000 years. It's very likely that the Turians have quite a lot more planets than the Minbari had. Maybe even more than all of the B5 younger races put together, but they'd be scattered over more of the galaxy due to the convenience of Mass Relay travel (and it's not unknown for seperate planets in one system to be colonised by different powers, because a planet suitable for, say the Elcor or Hanar is unlikely to be of any interest to anyone else).

And therein lies the problem, because unless 'Turian space' is artificially squeezed to fit where the Minbari used to live, their planets are probably going to end up in various other powers' backyards, which is going to have unforeseen (and potentially hazardous) consequences.

Most relays are in the outer orbits of their system. However, the relay still absorbed enough energy to physically move it, a 15km object of unknown but mostly metallic construction, that requires a not inconsiderable push.

Assuming there was no mass-lightening involved in the incident; a stretch, but you never know. Anyways, even so, the Relay could've been knocked out of orbit because of the stellar mass coming at it at a fraction of the speed of light thanks to some impressive barriers, but that doesn't necessarily mean it absorbed much radiation. After all, for example, if it was out at a distance of ten billion kilometers (1.0 * 1013 meters) from the star, we're talking about a sphere with a surface area of 3.14*1026 meters. Even with a supernova releasing the equivalent of 1.2*1044 joules, at that distance you are going to get about 3.82*1017 joules, or the equivalent of 91 megatons, per meter. Impressive none the less, it is not outside the realm of possibility for EarthForce to concentrate that much or more firepower on one spot. Perhaps more trouble than it's worth in the end, but it's an option nonetheless, especially since these things are irreplaceable.

You can make some assumptions based on the role of cruisers within a fleet in Mass Effect. They're both flank screens in open combat and the ship class most frequently used for combat patrol and operations where a military show of force but not necessarily a major engagement is required, whilst dreadnoughts are reserved for critical fleet engagements. There will undoubtedly be several cruisers for each Dreadnought at least. They will also likely not fall as quickly as you assume, because most of the Earthforce fleet is also going to be heavy cruisers which don't have the heavy long range weapons of the Omega class, they only have the older style pulse cannons, which fire a relatively slowly propagating energy packet (certainly slow compared to the 1.3% of c for a Mass Accelerator on a Mass Effect dreadnought). The instant propagation beam weapons we see Earthforce ships using in the show were purchased from the Narn after the Earth Minbari war, so they're not a factor in this scenario.

The lasers might've been purchased later, but the power generation capability to use them was still there beforehand. Worse still, a few bolts of energy fired by a heavy cruiser (or god forbid, two dozen from a Nova dreadnought) completely negates the primary defensive measure of these cruisers and frigates, who don't have the luxury of standing off tens of thousands of kilometers away to try and plink away at EarthForce.

[Stargazer]

And therein lies the problem, because unless 'Turian space' is artificially squeezed to fit where the Minbari used to live, their planets are probably going to end up in various other powers' backyards, which is going to have unforeseen (and potentially hazardous) consequences.

Ok, I see your point. The Random Omnipotent Being repositions the fight to be in an amalgamation of EA and turian space, with nothing else around.

The lasers might've been purchased later, but the power generation capability to use them was still there beforehand. Worse still, a few bolts of energy fired by a heavy cruiser (or god forbid, two dozen from a Nova dreadnought) completely negates the primary defensive measure of these cruisers and frigates, who don't have the luxury of standing off tens of thousands of kilometers away to try and plink away at EarthForce.

Cruisers should still be able to engage at thousands of kilometers, while those slow-moving bolts won't.

[Enigma]

I wasn't referring to the Bonehead maneuver but the trick that the Minbari used in the Earth-Minbari war. The Minbari opened a exit jump point in the midst of the EA fleet, destroying several EA ships as the Minbari exited hyperspace.

Could the EA do the same to a Mass Relay or is it not enough?

[Vendetta]

The lasers might've been purchased later, but the power generation capability to use them was still there beforehand. Worse still, a few bolts of energy fired by a heavy cruiser (or god forbid, two dozen from a Nova dreadnought) completely negates the primary defensive measure of these cruisers and frigates, who don't have the luxury of standing off tens of thousands of kilometers away to try and plink away at EarthForce.

Pulse cannons and similar weapons (like those fired by the Centauri battleship at the end of S2) are subject to interceptor fire in B5, so they wouldn't completely negate Mass Effect defences, they would have to fire enough to overwhelm the GARDIAN array, whilst under fire themselves, and if they get in close they'll be under fire from weapons which they also have no defence except interceptors like Disruptor Torpedoes fired from frigates and fighters, which already work on the basis that they'll have to overwhelm an active interceptor grid by oversaturating it.

[Balrog]

Ah, missed your first reply Stargazer

They're not spelled out to be FTL sensors, nor are they shown detecting something in a short time beyond light lag range.

They detected the tachyons coming from the anomaly as it happened, and they use tachyons for real-time FTL communication. Just because it isn't spelled out doesn't mean it isn't true.

Heavier slug? My calculation used the same slug mass as a dreadnought- 20 kg. Even if the slug mass was half that, the yield would be over a kiloton. Even if the slug mass was half that, the yield would be over a kiloton. As for acceleration, a mass accelerator's muzzle velocity is directly related to its length:

"The primary determinant of a mass accelerator's destructive power is length. The longer the barrel, the longer the slug can be accelerated, the higher the slug's final velocity, and therefore the greater its kinetic impact." (Codex, Ships and Vehicles, Mass Accelerators) However, simply changing the amount of time accelerated gives a 400 meter accelerator one-fourth the speed of an 800 meter accelerator, which is contrary to the stated large superiority of dreadnoughts over everything else. So I adjusted for the rate of acceleration as well as for time accelerated.

Just checked my copy of the codex, it's a 2kg slug (though the speed is off, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one). And I'm interested in the justification for your adjustments, are the numbers based on something within the universe or just a guesstimate?

It's not what they will do initially, though.

Regardless, if a bunch of Internet dwellers can think of it, so will they.

Cruisers should still be able to engage at thousands of kilometers, while those slow-moving bolts won't.

Cruisers can only engage at 'long' range (which isn't specified, though granted it probably does include a few thousand kilometers), but that still gives EA plenty of time to intercept, even dodge, the incoming shots, assuming your velocity calculations are correct. Meanwhile I don't think anyone's figured out just how slow the "slow-moving" bolts are, at least not lately. To the search engine!

Pulse cannons and similar weapons (like those fired by the Centauri battleship at the end of S2) are subject to interceptor fire in B5, so they wouldn't completely negate Mass Effect defences, they would have to fire enough to overwhelm the GARDIAN array, whilst under fire themselves, and if they get in close they'll be under fire from weapons which they also have no defence except interceptors like Disruptor Torpedoes fired from frigates and fighters, which already work on the basis that they'll have to overwhelm an active interceptor grid by oversaturating it.

Sure, but then are GARDIAN arrays set up to fire at energy bolts? Eventually, but it'll be a nasty shock at first, and ships in ME still rely primarily on their barriers to defend against attack; the ablative armoring they do have just isn't used to energy weapons as strong as that (unless it's possible to have terrawatt lasers that are only good out to 10km?). You're going to see a shift within the Turian military to try and get as much armor bolted onto their ships as fast as they can.

[Stargazer]

They detected the tachyons coming from the anomaly as it happened, and they use tachyons for real-time FTL communication. Just because it isn't spelled out doesn't mean it isn't true.

Do you have proof the station was beyond light lag distance? Otherwise "coming from the anomaly as it happened" proves nothing. And communications =/= sensors.

Just checked my copy of the codex, it's a 2kg slug (though the speed is off, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one). And I'm interested in the justification for your adjustments, are the numbers based on something within the universe or just a guesstimate?

That initial codex entry was in error; it had a 2 kg slug going at 283 km/s for a 38 kiloton yield. In reality, that would only be a 19 ton yield. The error was pointed out to the developers, who retconned it to a 20 kg slug accelerated to 4025 km/s, which does add up to a 38 kiloton yield. The codex entry for dreadnoughts in Mass Effect 2 has the correct numbers. (If you don't have the game, you can still read the codex on the Mass Effect wiki. They have verbatim copies of most entries.)

Regardless, if a bunch of Internet dwellers can think of it, so will they.

A bunch of internet dwellers can think of the transporter bomb, does that mean Starfleet does it?

Cruisers can only engage at 'long' range (which isn't specified, though granted it probably does include a few thousand kilometers), but that still gives EA plenty of time to intercept, even dodge, the incoming shots, assuming your velocity calculations are correct. Meanwhile I don't think anyone's figured out just how slow the "slow-moving" bolts are, at least not lately. To the search engine!

At a few thousand kilometers the EA ships would only have a couple seconds to accelerate or change course. I don't see larger EA ships like Hyperions and Novas having that kind of maneuverability. And it's likely the slugs are two fast for the interceptor grid to catch, unless they have intercepted things going at a thousand kilometers a second before.

[Vendetta]

Sure, but then are GARDIAN arrays set up to fire at energy bolts? Eventually, but it'll be a nasty shock at first, and ships in ME still rely primarily on their barriers to defend against attack; the ablative armoring they do have just isn't used to energy weapons as strong as that (unless it's possible to have terrawatt lasers that are only good out to 10km?). You're going to see a shift within the Turian military to try and get as much armor bolted onto their ships as fast as they can.

True, but it's a shock the Turians can absorb better than Earthforce can absorb the shock of first meeting Dreadnoughts firing on them from 10000km+ ranges and weapons that cause their ships to tear themselves apart through gravity manipulation. The reason being that the Turians are a much larger polity than Earth Alliance at the time of the Earth Minbari war, and they maintain compulsory service (both civil and military, but with emphasis on the latter) for everyone between the ages of 15 and 30 (Turians have a roughly human equivalent lifespan).

Knife fights are going to be equally bloody for both sides, but the Turians will be able to last longer.

[DrStrangelove]

Cruisers should still be able to engage at thousands of kilometers, while those slow-moving bolts won't.

You mean like these examples of high ME weapon velocity.
Thanix gun
Reaper thanix and cruiser weapons


Dialog and a few visuals establish B5 weapons are supposed to be effective over several hundred to a few thousand kilometers, I can dig up the quote from JMS the creator of B5, that says the weapons move slowly for dramatic purpose, just like they do in Mass Effect, since the action is lost with the bolts and missile crossing the screen in a blink

[Stargazer]

The thanix cannon is said to be fired at a fraction of c in the codex; that cinematic can be explained away as extreme slow motion, as we do not see anything else move in the same clip with it. Anything contradictory in the battle in ME1 is just the battle being inconsistent with the codex- the devs have said that the battle was animated before the codex was finalized, and when the writers noticed the scene was out of line, it was too late to change the scene. If the codex indicates something contradictory to that scene, defer to the codex.

By all means, show some quotes from JMS establishing the speed of the weapons. If a range is given but no speed, that could just mean the B5 ships are too slow to dodge at that range (decreasing the likelihood of them dodging shots from turians ships, possibly extending the effective range for the turians against the EA)

[Gramzamber]

I'm pretty sure we see the Normandy continue to fly forward at it's normal rate while the Thanix beam fires.
Yes I know it's not supposed to be a beam either. But it looks like one, and sure as hell isn't going anywhere near the speed of light.
So either the codex is full of shit, or the CG department got it wrong. Again.

[Stargazer]

No, the Thanix is supposed to have the appearance of a beam, so much that the codex says "Contrary to popular belief, Sovereign's main gun was not a directed energy weapon"- people in-universe who saw the battle thought it looked like a beam.

As for the speed, we only see the beam respective to the Normandy in close-up shots in which speed is pretty much indeterminable. The only time the beam seems egregiously slow is the panned-out shot of the first beam approaching the Collector ship- the Collector ship itself does not move, so it can still be justified as a (badly placed) slo-motion moment.

[adam_grif]

So either the codex is full of shit, or the CG department got it wrong. Again.

Basically, there is no communication between the codex writers and anybody else. They tried to justify heat-sinks appearing out of nowhere in two years, but everybody else just treated it like it's always been that way - Shepard wakes up and already knows what they are despite being dead for 18 months, and the Hugo Gernsback crew uses mechs and guns that run with heatsinks, even though they've been stranded for 8 years.

[DrStrangelove]

Cruisers should still be able to engage at thousands of kilometers, while those slow-moving bolts won't.

You mean like these examples of high ME weapon velocity.
Thanix gun
Reaper thanix and cruiser weapons


Dialog and a few visuals establish B5 weapons are supposed to be effective over several hundred to a few thousand kilometers, I can dig up the quote from JMS the creator of B5, that says the weapons move slowly for dramatic purpose, just like they do in Mass Effect, since the action is lost with the bolts and missile crossing the screen in a blink

Range
speed
just in case
more
interceptors

[Stargazer]

Range

No solid range number given. In fact, for the battle in question he says what was seen on screen was a good representation of fighter combat ranges.

speed
just in case
more

I can't tell exactly what he is talking about here, but it seems to not be in reference to weapons speeds. It'd help if you posted the questions these messages were answering as well.

interceptors

Nothing about interceptors being able to intercept objects moving at thousands of kilometers a second relative to the target.

In short, you've just proven a whole lot of nothing.