Doctor Who "Flesh and Stone" (Spoilers)

[NecronLord]

Again, nothing springs to mind for the poll, alas. Anyone got any ideas, post 'em and I'll edit.

[Gramzamber]

... someone explain to me why they decided to spend the last 5 minutes reverting Amy's character development for no reason. What the hell.

Also, so the cracks are erasing history eh? I was hoping for something cooler but whatever.
Redshirt of the Year award goes to those 4 clerics. "Oh look a weird anomaly has appeared that scares the shit out of the angels. LET'S WALK RIGHT INTO IT LOL!"

[Sharp-kun]

... someone explain to me why they decided to spend the last 5 minutes reverting Amy's character development for no reason. What the hell.

I thought that at first, but I'm not bashing it just yet. She just went through a rather scary experience, nearely died and only survived thanks to the Doctor. Given she's been unsure about her wedding since the first episode I wouldn't be surprised that she reevaluated things.

I expect her to get over it.

[NecronLord]

Looking at the Angels at the end, the angels have lost something, I think. In their original version they had a sort of pathos to them. They were the loneliest creatures in the universe who could never look at one another. They "killed" people only to feed, and held their hands over their faces out of fear of looking at one another.

I think giving them all the freaky powers undermines that a bit. I didn't feel pity for them at all, this time.

[NecronLord]

Yeah. Amy's just gone through more shit in one day than Rose went through in an entire year. I don't think it's really that much to complain about.

[Gramzamber]

I know that Amy's been through a lot but up till now I was glad Amy wasn't another girl who was gushing over the Doctor and in 5 minutes they make Rose and Martha's crushes look positively dignified.

[Captain Seafort]

... someone explain to me why they decided to spend the last 5 minutes reverting Amy's character development for no reason. What the hell.

No reason? The fact that those last five minutes were extremely out of character was the whole point. There's something fucking odd going on, centred around Amy - if anything they're going overboard to highlight it. They also seem to be using it to take the piss out of and eradicate some of RTD's stuff - the series 30 finale and the Cyberman Christmas special being two of them apparently.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Sexual feelings = reversion of character development now? Righty-oh.

[Gramzamber]

No reason? The fact that those last five minutes were extremely out of character was the whole point. There's something fucking odd going on, centred around Amy - if anything they're going overboard to highlight it.

That didn't make sense to me.

Amy: "I want you NOW!"
Doctor: "There's something odd going on with you!"
Any: *shrugs and heads into the TARDIS*

Maybe it'll be explained later.

They also seem to be using it to take the piss out of and eradicate some of RTD's stuff - the series 30 finale and the Cyberman Christmas special being two of them apparently.

Take the piss out of RTD's stuff by doing it worse!
Yeah Moffat's a genius.

Sexual feelings = reversion of character development now? Righty-oh.

[/quote]

No, throwing herself onto the Doctor out of the blue = reversion.
Companions have been through rough shit before without this kind of undignified display.

[Captain Seafort]

Looking at the Angels at the end, the angels have lost something, I think.

Agreed. Showing them moving in particular was a big mistake - a large part of their original creepiness

I think giving them all the freaky powers undermines that a bit. I didn't feel pity for them at all, this time.

Which powers? The only ones I noticed were being able to open the supposedly sealed door (which simply shows them to be extremely strong) and the flicking lights thing (which they did last time as well). Breaking necks was unusual, but easily explained by them not wanting their victims to set up any nasty time-travel tricks to take them out in the same way Sally did.

[Siege]

Liked it quite a bit, although like Necronlord I feel it diminished the Angels a little. And yeah, there's something fucking weird going on with Amy. Of course she was introduced as a bit weird, but still... There's something else going on here. Looking forward to finding out what it is! Anyway, I'm rating this a four: well executed, and quite tense in places.

[DaveJB]

Amy's lingering attraction to the Doctor was indicated (albeit quite subtly) in the ending of The Eleventh Hour and opening of The Beast Below. Plus, from what she was saying at the end of this one, it seemed like she was interested in the Doctor more for a one-night stand than anything else. Maybe not a shining example of how to have a successful relationship, but I didn't see it as being particularly out of character. If I was going to complain about anything, it would be that Moffat's done something like this before (Girl in the Fireplace).

Aside from that, it looks as if Moffat's actually going the right way about setting up the season finale (although RTD's best set-up finale was Last of the Time Lords, and look how that turned out). A pretty good two-parter overall, definitely one of the better modern-Who ones.

[Gramzamber]

By the way is it official now that "Journey's End" never happened? Seems to be implied.

[Atlan]

Amy feeling for the Doctor isn't all that strange. He's her "imaginary" childhood friend who turns out to be real, and saves her ass in a situation where most people would have gone "oops, sorry, got it wrong." and he literally tries talking her through death. He would have done that too, if she hadn't stumbled.
Once she gets to thinking about it she's probably going to be "I told him WHAT with him in my bedroom?!", but she's NOT thinking right now, she's running on emotions.
Also, looks like a nice way to introduce a new companion halfway through the current series.

As for the episode, not quite as good as last week, but still pretty kickass. We now know that the rest of the season is going to be about finding where the cracks come from, and why amy is a lynchpin.
"I would have liked to have known you better" "I rather think you knew me at my best." I liked those lines.

Also, a guess as to who River killed? Spoiler

The Doctor, is mine...

[Gramzamber]

Also, a guess as to who River killed? Spoiler

The Doctor, is mine...

Valeyard related theories in 3.. 2.. 1..

[Bedlam]

Defently not as good as the first part.

The playing with Artifical Gravilty and the forest in the Spaceship were nice ideas.

I agree that this has underminded the excellent scaryness of Blink, but I dont think it was possible to ever do a worthwhile sequal. Making there more of them doesn't make everything better particualrly for a scary creature for instance Aliens is as good as or better than Alien but in a different way it isn't a horror film.

There were some potentially very scary things with Amy walking through the forest with her eyes close but they didn't quite work. They not moving becasue they think someone with their eyes closes can see them is silly.

Anyone think that the person River is suposed to have killed is the Doctor? It seems heavily lampshaded.

I hope they come up with an idea for the last bit apart from for her fear = horny I originally thought that she might still be controlled by an Angel but that doesn't seem likely.

[Captain Seafort]

By the way is it official now that "Journey's End" never happened? Seems to be implied.

I'm not sure - the Doctor seems to be alternating between JE and "The Next Doctor" being wiped, and something being wrong with Amy specifically.

Take the piss out of RTD's stuff by doing it worse!
Yeah Moffat's a genius.

How exactly? RTD's main problems were deus ex endings, Ten randomly changing from "once chance only" to getting sobby about the deaths of mortal enemies, and Doctor-companion lovey-dovey stuff. People acting badly out of character (which Amy was - going from a few subtle hints to jumping him is significantly different from the well developed love story Moffatt produced in "Girl in the Fireplace") is no problem so long as there's a clear reason behind it. There's definitely something odd going on, which I expect we'll find out more about next week, so let's wait until then before we start screaming about bad writing, hmm?

Also, a guess as to who River killed?
Spoiler

The Doctor, is mine...

Spoiler

Possibly - that's certainly what they were hinting at, but I tend to be suspicious when things are so obvious. Then again, killing the Doctor is somewhat less fatal than for your average person.

[El Moose Monstero]

I enjoyed this episode up until the last 5 minutes - I didn't agree with the 'pretend you can see' thing - seemed to further invalidate the angels, I think he'd have been better off inventing a new bad guy for this episode, and leave the mystique of the weeping angel right where it was. I'm with NL, we've gone from the 'lonely assassin' to 'the lonely assassin and his fifty mates out on the razzle'. If you ignored the fact that they were the same weeping angels, I thought it was a fine episode, up until the end. I don't mind the end if there'd been more lead in time, I don't even mind if Amy has the hots for the doctor, and yes, on realism grounds you can say 'oh, well, she'd been through a traumatic experience' etc, and it's understandable that she'd act on the feelings. Dramatically though, I think it ruined what was an absolutely fine ending by scrambling to crowbar shit in, when they could have paced themselves a bit more and left the romance for next week.

"It's happening somewhere out there, right now, in a different time"

"I want to go home... there's something you have to see."

Long silence

"What are you thinking?"

"Time can be rewritten."

Smile, sunrise, end credits. Rating would have been a 5.

[Atlan]

Also, a guess as to who River killed?
Spoiler

The Doctor, is mine...

Spoiler

Possibly - that's certainly what they were hinting at, but I tend to be suspicious when things are so obvious. Then again, killing the Doctor is somewhat less fatal than for your average person.

Yes, but... Spoiler

There isn't much Doctor LEFT. If it's the NEXT incarnation that she kills he's DEAD.

[Captain Seafort]

Yes, but... Spoiler

There isn't much Doctor LEFT. If it's the NEXT incarnation that she kills he's DEAD.

Spoiler

Depends on whether a) the current incarnation is 11 or 12, given the nature of the JE regeneration, and whether he finds some way to get around the regeneration limitation (it's obviously not a hard-and-fast physical constraint, as the Master dodged it repeatedly).

[Lost Soal]

No, throwing herself onto the Doctor out of the blue = reversion.
Companions have been through rough shit before without this kind of undignified display.

And how of them had already gone through 12 years of therapy because of his prior actions. She was already somewhat mentally screwed before all this.

[NecronLord]

Don't fucking spoiler your guesses unless they're actually based on proper damn spoilers.

[Gramzamber]

Yes, but... Spoiler

There isn't much Doctor LEFT. If it's the NEXT incarnation that she kills he's DEAD.

You really think he's going to be beholden to some arbitrary number dreamed up decades ago, especially when numerous ways to circumvent it are in the canon?

[Bounty]

I gave it a three, but mostly because I think the episode pales next to Blink (as mentioned before, the Angels are piss-your-pants scary when you don't see what happens when you close your eyes - fear of what you can't see and whatnot. This would have been miles better had they just shown a closeup of Amy's face with the Angels done by sound effects, or something). The ending was very sudden too. Apart from that, decent episode.

[Gramzamber]

Personally I think the because failure with the angels this time around was Angel Bob.
While I never found them particularily scary they were at least creepy and alien, giving them a voice did the exact opposite.
Letting us see them move was rather bad too.