SGU 115: Lost (Spoilers)

[adam_grif]

I'm wondering when they're going to acknowledge that Earth still exists. Haven't had any stone action for a while now. Anybody willing to bet when SGC will get its shit together and start organizing a rescue mission?

I'm envisioning a 304 with the hangars chopped off, and a huge ass rear section filled with Naquadah generators (or maybe they finally got some Neutrino-Ion generators up and running?) to get more juice into the drive. Then it would take a season and a half to get there.

... or we'll get a lamo "oh look the wormhole drive is working!" final episode.

[NecronLord]

Spoiler

That's not happening at the end of this season.

[Temujin]

I'm wondering when they're going to acknowledge that Earth still exists. Haven't had any stone action for a while now. Anybody willing to bet when SGC will get its shit together and start organizing a rescue mission?

I'm envisioning a 304 with the hangars chopped off, and a huge ass rear section filled with Naquadah generators (or maybe they finally got some Neutrino-Ion generators up and running?) to get more juice into the drive. Then it would take a season and a half to get there.

... or we'll get a lamo "oh look the wormhole drive is working!" final episode.

I know they have a general idea of Destiny's distance and location, but one, isn't the distance supposed to be beyond anything other than even the deus ex wormhole drive, and two, is the location exact enough to even consider a potential rescue mission.

[Themightytom]

I appreciated the clarity with which Eli described their situation, I'm not sure if I missed the episode in which they said it outright, but now I know that Destiny's jumps are interstellar and not intergalactic. This also explains the gate range conditions, there are potentially a lot more gates available but Destiny's gate's can only reach a limited number at a time. Also if Eli's corridor theory is accurate it means galaxies haven't been "fully" seeded the way Atlantis and the Milky way have.

if they DID send a rescue mission, a more advanced gate might have a greater range, although as Earth has been unable to dial Destiny and needed the unique planetary conditions a more advanced gate on Destiny wouldn't necessarily be a problem solver.

Given that, the only value in sending a rescue mission is to rescue 40 odd people who have been missing for weeks at this point. Is it worth the expense of even sending a 304?

[JME2]

Given that, the only value in sending a rescue mission is to rescue 40 odd people who have been missing for weeks at this point. Is it worth the expense of even sending a 304?

I still think there's going to come a point, either before the end of Season 1 or next season, when the SGC is forced to write off the Icarus Expedition. There's too much dramatic potential to not see the reactions of the crew if Earth essentially gives up on them.

[NecronLord]

Given that, the only value in sending a rescue mission is to rescue 40 odd people who have been missing for weeks at this point. Is it worth the expense of even sending a 304?

Probably not. What they ought to do is ask the former Ori guys. Their ships at least appear to have some kind of limitless fuel source (given that their reactors resemble the one in Trinity) and have greater speed than a ZPM-304, they're probably the best bet of getting out there.

[PREDATOR490]

Wormhole drive is really the only option at this point and that cant be done because it was established in the very episode it was introduced it requires extreme amount of precision to not fuck it up.

Getting TOO Destiny might be possible if the SGC calls in favours or goes out looking to develop a greater power source to dial the ship but the real issue is getting them back. Unless they can find or bring an equal source of power to Destiny they wont be able to dial back so its still a one-way trip.
That said, this episode would appear to demonstrate the seed ships are following a corridor and logically the SGC might be able to do the same thing Eli and co did.

Get the map of the stargates, find one thats within reach, jump to it, jump to the edge of that galaxy and then jump to next and so on. Alternatively, beg the Ori for one of those super gates / power sources they use to enhance their intergalactic dialing range.

[Starglider]

I expect the SGC to find a new way to open wormholes to Destiny before the expedition runs out of C4 and/or 5.56 NATO. Because shooty shooty boomy boomy is essential to at least 50% of Stargate plots, and switching over to salvaged Ancient or alien tech would be too much effort for the production team. Although they might just 'LOL we found a replicator (no, the other kind) when exploring a lower deck'.

[PREDATOR490]

I would lay odds of either finding Ancient Guns... remodeled P90s since they are popular for that sort of thing or an ammo machine. That said, other series have managed to play with their energy guns and Stargate amoungst them. If the team can play around with Staffs and Zats I dont see much issue with an Ancient energy pistol or something.

The ammo replicator is more likely however, they have that machine that recharges all their Earth equipment with no problems so wouldnt be surprising for ammo replicators to appear. That said, I still think the energy weapons make more sense AND offer more options with stun settings without ammo problems... just use that recharging station and bam, no issue.

[adam_grif]

Given that, the only value in sending a rescue mission is to rescue 40 odd people who have been missing for weeks at this point. Is it worth the expense of even sending a 304?

Probably not. What they ought to do is ask the former Ori guys. Their ships at least appear to have some kind of limitless fuel source (given that their reactors resemble the one in Trinity) and have greater speed than a ZPM-304, they're probably the best bet of getting out there.

Yeah, like the SGC really needs more ubertech at its disposal

... and weren't those things only running thanks to Prior juice or something?

When did we get quantification for Ori drives? When I watched Unending I got the impression that it wasn't the same group of ships attacking over and over, just different groups of them attacking them as they flew past.

[Themightytom]

Wormhole drive is really the only option at this point and that cant be done because it was established in the very episode it was introduced it requires extreme amount of precision to not fuck it up.

Getting TOO Destiny might be possible if the SGC calls in favours or goes out looking to develop a greater power source to dial the ship but the real issue is getting them back. Unless they can find or bring an equal source of power to Destiny they wont be able to dial back so its still a one-way trip.
That said, this episode would appear to demonstrate the seed ships are following a corridor and logically the SGC might be able to do the same thing Eli and co did.

Get the map of the stargates, find one thats within reach, jump to it, jump to the edge of that galaxy and then jump to next and so on. Alternatively, beg the Ori for one of those super gates / power sources they use to enhance their intergalactic dialing range.

Or just find the Stargate from the movie that can reach the other side of the known universe

I wonder what would happen if Rush linked via stones looked into an ancient archive. Would he then be able to construct a minigate the way Orlin did, boosted with whatever Jack made when he was Face hugged? ?

[NecronLord]

Yeah, like the SGC really needs more ubertech at its disposal

... and weren't those things only running thanks to Prior juice or something?

Err... They wouldn't get it. They'd stargate over and ask the (former) Doci very nicely if he could do a rescue mission for them. There would be a prior flying the ship.

When did we get quantification for Ori drives? When I watched Unending I got the impression that it wasn't the same group of ships attacking over and over, just different groups of them attacking them as they flew past.

It was the same group of ships. Hence why whenever they kill one, the number in the next scene with them is decreased appropriately.

At worst, they can make it to the Asgard galaxy hours or days behind a ZPM 304. Which probably left first.

[NecronLord]

I would lay odds of either finding Ancient Guns... remodeled P90s since they are popular for that sort of thing or an ammo machine. That said, other series have managed to play with their energy guns and Stargate amoungst them. If the team can play around with Staffs and Zats I dont see much issue with an Ancient energy pistol or something.

They have, alas, sold the pistols that came with those suits the first time we saw them, along with the lantean stunners. So I don't think we'll be seeing either of those. Something new perhaps.

The ammo replicator is more likely however, they have that machine that recharges all their Earth equipment with no problems so wouldnt be surprising for ammo replicators to appear. That said, I still think the energy weapons make more sense AND offer more options with stun settings without ammo problems... just use that recharging station and bam, no issue.

I think however, it's more likely they'll get an ability to gate stuff in from Earth at some point.

[Siege]

I think however, it's more likely they'll get an ability to gate stuff in from Earth at some point.

God, I hope not. Or if they do get a gate-in ability, at least don't have it happen until some point way in the future. Like, at least a full season from now. The communications stones already raise all kinds of issues with respect to solving the issue of the week; having regular gate contact would make this massively worse. "But why don't they gate in plotdevice X seen in episode 13748 of SG-1? It would solve this issue in three seconds flat!" Yeah, no, thanks.

From what we've seen so far I would say that less Earth = better SGU. Of all the episodes aired I disliked Earth the most (by a pretty god-damn significant margin no less); I simply can't see how weekly gate-ins would improve the show in any way. It'd undermine the entire premise of Universe. In fact, it'd be a bit like giving Voyager an endless supply of magical shuttles and replicator rations. Oh wait!

[Covenant]

Yeah, being off on their own gives SGU a tone that Atlantis lost early on, and if they can have crap gated in to them (or if they can just build it on-ship) you lose some of that.

I think keeping some issues of scarcity is a good thing. Those moments of "Hey, we got some food! Let's all enjoy a good meal" add some interesting dynamics. There's bound to be something in the area they can turn into an energy weapon of some cobbled-together variety, even if it's just some Ancient welding lasers. Having a small defense armory in one of the closed-off sections of the ship is sensible.

The more this place remains self-sufficient and mostly broken the better it will be for the show. I actually enjoy the idea of seeing them slowly fix up the ship, build their own water and air filtration scrubbers, and Robinson Crusoe it up a bit. Nobody with half a brain would say "Hey, let's make them stranded a zillion lightyears away" and then add in "Oh but they can order pizzas if they want." SGU has a bright future so long as they leave Earth behind. Even moreso if the stones get much weaker as time goes on.

[JME2]

From what we've seen so far I would say that less Earth = better SGU. Of all the episodes aired I disliked Earth the most (by a pretty god-damn significant margin no less); I simply can't see how weekly gate-ins would improve the show in any way. It'd undermine the entire premise of Universe. In fact, it'd be a bit like giving Voyager an endless supply of magical shuttles and replicator rations. Oh wait!

Wright, Cooper, and company have shown themselves to be lazy on occasion, but never on the level that Berman and Braga achieved. I would like to think they are mindful of the downfall of the competition, but much will depend on how SGU proceeds into the next season.

[adam_grif]

[quote="NecronLordErr... They wouldn't get it. They'd stargate over and ask the (former) Doci very nicely if he could do a rescue mission for them. There would be a prior flying the ship.[/quote]

I thought the priors were going to lose their power when the Ori got wiped out / Adria got shut in?

[NecronLord]

JME: Edited your post to remove the misquote. I didn't say that.

I thought the priors were going to lose their power when the Ori got wiped out / Adria got shut in?

No, Adria got knocked down from super-ascended to merely ascended when the priors lost faith. The Priors' powers are biological, they've still got them. In fact, given that they seem to be created technologically, it's possible everyone in that civilization has them now that there's no longer a religion underpinning their distribution.

Notice that between the Ori being wiped out and Adria ascending they still had their powers.

[NecronLord]

I think however, it's more likely they'll get an ability to gate stuff in from Earth at some point.

God, I hope not. Or if they do get a gate-in ability, at least don't have it happen until some point way in the future. Like, at least a full season from now. The communications stones already raise all kinds of issues with respect to solving the issue of the week; having regular gate contact would make this massively worse. "But why don't they gate in plotdevice X seen in episode 13748 of SG-1? It would solve this issue in three seconds flat!" Yeah, no, thanks.

From what we've seen so far I would say that less Earth = better SGU. Of all the episodes aired I disliked Earth the most (by a pretty god-damn significant margin no less); I simply can't see how weekly gate-ins would improve the show in any way. It'd undermine the entire premise of Universe. In fact, it'd be a bit like giving Voyager an endless supply of magical shuttles and replicator rations. Oh wait!

I don't care for the dramatic consequences. I'm talking about what's likely to happen in-universe with known technologies and personnel. It's far easier to imagine them getting resupplied that way than making their own bullets without any say, bullet making equipment.

[dragon]

I like how they make it look that missing crew are going to get back and then fail and are still stranded.

[Siege]

I don't care for the dramatic consequences. I'm talking about what's likely to happen in-universe with known technologies and personnel. It's far easier to imagine them getting resupplied that way than making their own bullets without any say, bullet making equipment.

Alright; let's ignore dramatic consequences for a bit. Rewatching the scene from Air where they're looking at the star map, the holothing makes a "beep" every time it shows Destiny reaching a new galaxy. It speeds up to the point where it's bleeping multiple times per second, and keeps doing that for a good ten seconds or so. The ship is literally dozens of galaxies away from Earth, in a completely unknown part of the universe. Hell, it's not inconceivable they've left the Local Group a long time ago (certainly if we take Rush' statement that they are "several billion light years from home" as gospel they must have). This isn't just another case of 'two galaxies to the left'; with the sole exception of the nine-chevron Stargate I don't think we've seen anything in SG canon that's capable of bridging such ludicrous distances. So it would seem to me that it's either 'find a new super special core planet' or bust.

And--take care, dramatic consequences are here once more--ye gods, the less said about the Orii/Priors/Doci/whatever the better. If there's one thing I feverishly hope for it surely must be that that lame bunch of suck will never be referenced ever again, but particularly not on SGU.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Getting TOO Destiny might be possible if the SGC calls in favours or goes out looking to develop a greater power source to dial the ship but the real issue is getting them back. Unless they can find or bring an equal source of power to Destiny they wont be able to dial back so its still a one-way trip.

It's been a while but I'm pretty sure that a couple of times in Atlantis they mentioned that as long as the dialing gate has enough power to make the initial connection then the receiving gate can supply to power to actually form and sustain the gate. If SGC can find some way of gating TO the Destiny they should be able to find some way of gating back.

[NecronLord]

Alright; let's ignore dramatic consequences for a bit. Rewatching the scene from Air where they're looking at the star map, the holothing makes a "beep" every time it shows Destiny reaching a new galaxy. It speeds up to the point where it's bleeping multiple times per second, and keeps doing that for a good ten seconds or so. The ship is literally dozens of galaxies away from Earth, in a completely unknown part of the universe. Hell, it's not inconceivable they've left the Local Group a long time ago (certainly if we take Rush' statement that they are "several billion light years from home" as gospel they must have). This isn't just another case of 'two galaxies to the left'; with the sole exception of the nine-chevron Stargate I don't think we've seen anything in SG canon that's capable of bridging such ludicrous distances. So it would seem to me that it's either 'find a new super special core planet' or bust.

Err. Yes. I was talking about the stargate, numpty. Why do you think I said 'gate in new supplies'?

By the by, Chris O'Farrel's made an excellent argument regarding how ZPMs literally must have the power to dial nine chevrons given what we know about them. It doesn't take anything other than McKay rigging a more capable connection from them to a stargate to make it plausible.

[Alyeska]

The Brilliant thing about making Destiny old and the Stargates of a different design means we have inherent limitations to prevent them from being the savior of the fleet. Even if the SGC can eventually dial to the Destiny, there is no reason to assume the Destiny itself is capable of dialing back to Earth. It is conceivable that the Destiny will eventually get resupplied, on a one way trip basis.

[adam_grif]

By the by, Chris O'Farrel's made an excellent argument regarding how ZPMs literally must have the power to dial nine chevrons given what we know about them. It doesn't take anything other than McKay rigging a more capable connection from them to a stargate to make it plausible.

Link?

I don't really think it's inconceivable that an entire planet filled with Naquadah could out-muscle a ZPM.