Lets talk tax (Australia)

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mr friendly guy
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Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by mr friendly guy »

Well the much hyped Henry review of tax is out. Here is what ABC has to say on it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... 888088.htm
Mining boom to pay for super revolution

By online political correspondent Emma Rodgers

Updated 2 hours 7 minutes ago

Millions of Australians are set to reap higher retirement savings, funded by a tax on miners, as the Federal Government makes major changes to the country's superannuation system.

The Federal Government today revealed in its much-anticipated response to the Henry tax review that it will lift compulsory superannuation contributions from 9 to 12 per cent by 2020.

The Government's move to increase compulsory superannuation goes against the Henry review recommendations, which instead preferred changing the rate of tax on compulsory contributions to make the system more equitable.

Key points of today's announcement include:

* Lifting compulsory superannuation from 9 to 12 per cent by 2019-20
* More Government payments for low-income workers into their superannuation
* Compulsory super payments for those over 70 and concessions on contributions for those over 50
* A reduction in company tax from 30 to 28 per cent by 2015
* Small business to benefit from company tax cut from 2012
* Other write-off concessions for small business
* Miners to be hit with a 40 per cent tax on above normal profits
* An infrastructure fund to be paid to the states each year to start at $700 million in 2012

Unveiling the Government's response, Treasurer Wayne Swan described the announced changes as historic.

"These are very big steps in a decade-long process of reform," he said.

"We've chosen to build everyone up rather than rearrange the tax concessions."

The country's mining boom will be used to help fund the superannuation overhaul with the resources sector to be slugged with a 40 per cent tax on profits.

Mr Swan warned the Opposition that if they blocked the tax on mining profits they would be blocking the increase in compulsory superannuation.

"This is only doable if it can be funded," he said.

"There are big gains to come from these reforms we have announced today."

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said the superannuation increase would deliver more security for people as they age.

"This plan means that working families of the future will have to worry less about their retirement," he said.

The increase in compulsory superannuation is part of several changes the Government will implement to the system in an effort to prepare the country for the costs of a growing and ageing population.

While the mining industry is set for pain, small businesses will make gains through a company tax reduction, a cut in red tape and other concessions.

But the Government is yet to reveal how it may act on other changes that were expected, such as optional tax returns and reforms to family benefit payments.

Changes 'fully funded'

The Government says its changes are fully funded over the next four years and will not breach its promise to keep taxes below 23.6 per cent of GDP.

With concerns that low-income earners will not have enough to retire on, the Federal Government will provide a payment of up to $500 annually for those earning under $37,000 on top of the existing co-contribution as a way to offset the tax paid on contributions.

Workers over 50 who have superannuation under $500,000 will be able to top it up by $50,000 a year in concessional contributions.

Those over 70 who are still working will now receive compulsory superannuation contributions until they are 75.

Over 8 million Australians are expected to benefit from the changes which will cost about $2.4 billion over the next four years.

The Government says the changes will give a worker who is aged 30 over $100,000 in extra superannuation by the time they retire.

And it expects that a woman aged 30 who may leave the workforce to have children will still be almost $80,000 better off.

The changes will put $85 billion into the country's national savings over the next 10 years, some of which will be pumped back into the economy to be used on infrastructure.

The Federal Government is keen to increase the national savings and add to the $1 trillion already saved to avoid a reliance on overseas borrowing in the wake of the financial crisis.

While superannuation is set for an overhaul, the Government has rejected several other more contentious recommendations of the review, which was calling for a major shake-up of the tax system.

Mr Swan rejected assertions the Government had a lack of political will.

"I completely and utterly repudiate that assertion," he said.

Some recommendations that the Government will not be making include:

* Replacing state stamp duties on homes with a national land tax
* Removing tax concessions on the not-for-profit sector
* Imposing a flat tax on all alcohol
* Lifting the age that workers receive super payouts to the pension age
* Restoring indexation of the fuel tax
* Removing the Medicare levy
* Reducing the capital gains tax discount
* Lower indexation of the aged pension
* Changes to the dividend imputation

The Government announced last week it would increase taxes on cigarettes by 25 per cent.

With some changes to be implemented soon and others ruled out completely, it remains to be seen what further action the Government may take on other measures in the lead-up to the next election.

The Government has indicated that today's announcements are only a "first step" with more to come that will make the personal income tax system simpler and fairer.

Optional tax returns had been mooted as well as a congestion tax for drivers.
Naturally Abbott has called it a great big tax. Now Abbott and some of the constituents he targets are fucking morons anyway, of course its a tax. But the point of contention is, is it unfair, does it benefit the country etc. But nooo, just throw in those words like some holy mantra for the instant win. I mean Abbott calls finds it uneasy that people are increasing taxes on cigarettes on the grounds that its a tax. He grudglingly concedes that there are some health benefits to it (duh) and so won't oppose it. Strangely he won't apply the logic to taxes on alcohol.

Now some random thoughts

Now I do think things like increasing superannuation will help the country in the long term. We have an aging population and generally don't save, so the government is forced to do it for us (at least those that don't save). We can't just shout population growth and have the young people subsidise the older ones who didn't save and fall back onto the I paid my taxes, so the government needs to look after me wah wah, especially when they have time to accumulate MORE assets than young people and should be better off.

I don't have a problem with a tax on mining companies. Maybe it might keep inflation down as the miners can't give their workers high payrises. Moreover the extra money could help the government do other things, like the increase in superannuation.

However it seems that after all that, these two things are the main centrepiece of the "reform". To be fair its still early days yet and I expect the government to announce more at a later date. I do note that some proposals which would really shake things up such as scrapping negative gearing, taxing vehicles in the form of distance travelled rather than registration etc have been rejected. This itself is not surprising as its going to be politically poisonous, but would have been nice, namely with property prices going sky high, with those who bought houses while it was cheap able to borrow against them to buy several more properties, which in turn puts prices up more.

EDIT - there is also mention that they will make things more enticing for savers. Too bad we didn't have this type of thing while I was saving up for my house (typical) but I think this is a good thing. We don't save enough and its shocking that some of those who earnt the big bucks in the first mining boom (ie Cashed Up Bogans / CUBs) end up relying on government hand outs when the boom went temporarily bust. Its also a good thing as it puts those who save on a more even footing with those who borrow a high percentage of the house price for investment property and then whine when the market turns against them. Come on guys, you had freaking negative gearing and various deductions to help you out.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by bobalot »

Saudi Arabia has oil. Similarly, Australia has minerals. It was always stupid to allow big mining companies to mine a non-renewable resource without saving up a reasonable amount of the cash for future generations. This is simply like the Government pension fund of Norway (using the proceeds of oil) or the Alaska Permanent Fund (also oil revenue). Fuck, even the Saudis realised they had use the oil boom to help diversify their economy and invest/save for the future.

It's a very smart idea to tax the resources sector. Currently, it's booming (even with the GFC) and causing inflation, crowding out investment in other sectors of the economy and driving up the dollar (making manufacturing, agriculture and tourism uncompetitive).

The proceeds of the tax is being used to encourage general savings and retirement savings (helping boost investment), more generous deductions for small business and a cut in the corporate tax (Helping to redirect investment to other sectors of the economy). As I understand it, there is also going to be more generous R & D deductions and direct government investment.

The proceeds are also being used for a permanent fund for financing infrastructure (which had really been neglected for a decade). There are even generous tax incentives for minerals/oil exploration.

Overall, I'm very impressed by these reforms. They could have gone further, but some of those proposals (while good) would have been electoral suicide. They are going to have to phase them in over a decade or two.

Tony Abbott once again shows himself to be a fucktard. By the end of these reforms, the share of taxes to GDP is actually set to fall. So calling it a "big new tax" is pretty dishonest. It wont stop a whole lot of fuckwits from believing him though.

Now, if only we could cut back on middle class welfare....
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by JointStrikeFighter »

We have always had Tax on resources, this is just more bob.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by Stark »

Frankly, it's good that this tax program includes spending areas. If only we funded national super with tobacco tax instead of spending that on... whatever.

Oh wait, the quitline costs billions to run. ;)
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by Darth Fanboy »

As sson as I read this thread title I approved. I think the idea for America to tax Australia is an excellent move that will close the gap in our spending and restore America's Economy!
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by weemadando »

Fuck politicians for lacking balls to back the full list of changes of the review.

The alterations to income tax, welfare, superannuation and corporate tax law would have been revolutionary.

But no. You can't risk angering your corporate benefactors or the teeming bogan hordes.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by bobalot »

JointStrikeFighter wrote:We have always had Tax on resources, this is just more bob.
Yeah, the way I phrased my post indicated that we didn't tax resources (My mistake). It still is a good idea to tax them more.
weemadando wrote:Fuck politicians for lacking balls to back the full list of changes of the review.

The alterations to income tax, welfare, superannuation and corporate tax law would have been revolutionary.

But no. You can't risk angering your corporate benefactors or the teeming bogan hordes.
You can't really blame them can you? Remember the gigantic outcry when they cut the baby bonus and other handouts for couples with a combined income of over $150,000? They were hordes of people writing into the newspapers and appearing on TV to wail about how much they deserved the handout and how much tougher it would be for them. Means testing is ruthlessly applied to poor people, students, and single parent families (mainly single mothers), but heaven forbid applying it to to middle class people.

Abolishing negative gearing for property, stamp duty, etc and replacing it with a land tax (A good idea) would be electoral suicide.

You have to remember the last major tax reform report was done in the 1970's and took over 20 years to phase in.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by weemadando »

Yeah, as a single income family (as my wife's mat leave has ended and our son needs to go into hospital for surgery soon and a return to work for my wife would mean she wouldn't be able to get leave for that) with a child living in Melbourne I can tell you exactly how fucked you are if you actually are a "working family".

After all, it's not like rent accounts for more than half of my net income each fortnight with various insurances (car, renters and medical - because our total taxable income puts us above the medicare threshold for the past year) eating up more and utilities ever increasing. So no, it's not like I get to struggle to get money for groceries each fortnight. In fact, we'd be better off for me to also quit work as we'd be able to get more on welfare.

So yeah, hurrah for Rudd and his bullshit. At least with the proposed Henry reforms we'd have better rental prices (and the chance to maybe, just maybe, one day own a home), more take home pay as our tax brackets would be less and the proposed changes to welfare would also benefit us as it would make it easier to return to work and not be punished by having to pay more for childcare than you can feasibly earn in a day.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by JointStrikeFighter »

I also get screwed by virtue of being a student.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

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weemadando wrote:Yeah, as a single income family (as my wife's mat leave has ended and our son needs to go into hospital for surgery soon and a return to work for my wife would mean she wouldn't be able to get leave for that) with a child living in Melbourne I can tell you exactly how fucked you are if you actually are a "working family".

After all, it's not like rent accounts for more than half of my net income each fortnight with various insurances (car, renters and medical - because our total taxable income puts us above the medicare threshold for the past year) eating up more and utilities ever increasing. So no, it's not like I get to struggle to get money for groceries each fortnight. In fact, we'd be better off for me to also quit work as we'd be able to get more on welfare.

So yeah, hurrah for Rudd and his bullshit. At least with the proposed Henry reforms we'd have better rental prices (and the chance to maybe, just maybe, one day own a home), more take home pay as our tax brackets would be less and the proposed changes to welfare would also benefit us as it would make it easier to return to work and not be punished by having to pay more for childcare than you can feasibly earn in a day.
Are you blaming Kevin Rudd for renting a house you can't afford? My girlfriend lived by herself in the house we now share on a middling salary with pets and an eye for fashion. Sure, we won't be able to afford a house unless I get a promotion, but that's not Kevin Rudd's fault.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by mr friendly guy »

A few opinions I have read from the West and online.

WA premier Colin Bartnett has predictably used the same tone as Abbott that it will discourage investment etc. At the same time he plans to increase state royalties from the big 2 (BHP and Rio Tinto), so go figure.

People ask how small businesses will afford the increase superannuation payments (hint, the very article he / she / it replied to states it will decrease company tax which in turn is funded from an increase tax on miner's "super profits"). Do these people have a reading comprehension problem or something?

Small business owner says increasing super is a bad idea because its better to have the money on hand NOW (in the form of pay rises). Ok I think thats a bit optimistic given our tendency to not save for retirement, then rely on government hand outs, and when they don't come to strip in front of the cameras to protest. :wink:
I will of course declare my hand and say that if I had the money now instead of super I most probably could do more with it than a superfund for the year as I simply put it into the mortgage (for a return of the current interest rate plus the value the house increases by). However given the stories of CUBs and pensioners I am going to say for most people (and for future government spending) its better if the money goes to super.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by weemadando »

Stark wrote:
weemadando wrote:Yeah, as a single income family (as my wife's mat leave has ended and our son needs to go into hospital for surgery soon and a return to work for my wife would mean she wouldn't be able to get leave for that) with a child living in Melbourne I can tell you exactly how fucked you are if you actually are a "working family".

After all, it's not like rent accounts for more than half of my net income each fortnight with various insurances (car, renters and medical - because our total taxable income puts us above the medicare threshold for the past year) eating up more and utilities ever increasing. So no, it's not like I get to struggle to get money for groceries each fortnight. In fact, we'd be better off for me to also quit work as we'd be able to get more on welfare.

So yeah, hurrah for Rudd and his bullshit. At least with the proposed Henry reforms we'd have better rental prices (and the chance to maybe, just maybe, one day own a home), more take home pay as our tax brackets would be less and the proposed changes to welfare would also benefit us as it would make it easier to return to work and not be punished by having to pay more for childcare than you can feasibly earn in a day.
Are you blaming Kevin Rudd for renting a house you can't afford? My girlfriend lived by herself in the house we now share on a middling salary with pets and an eye for fashion. Sure, we won't be able to afford a house unless I get a promotion, but that's not Kevin Rudd's fault.
No, I'm not blaming him for that. The fact is that on two incomes we could easily afford this place. On one it's become difficult, but it's still worth it as we're zoned excellently for services including child and maternal healthcare.

The thing I will blame (at least partially on him) is that the rental and real estate market in Melbourne is fucking retarded and when we have looked at moving into a cheaper rental we're presented with the following problems:

1) Places that are cheaper are not fit for human habitation half the time (exposed wiring, massive structural faults etc)
2) Places that are cheaper and are fit for human habitation are so far out of the city and with no access to public transport that it would cost us MORE in transport than we'd gain in rental savings
3) That "Rental Auctions" have become the norm. So even if we can find a place for a lower amount, we're expected to then bid the rent up against other prospective tenants for the privilege of living there. The worst example of this is from some idiotic family friends who not only bidded the rent up on a place that they really wanted, but then also to guarantee they got it agreed to pay a year of rent in advance

Real Estate reform was what I was hoping they'd carry through as I've been watching the property market closely in the hopes that we could buy or that the rental market might cool. But with Melbourne's property prices exploding through a 27.7% rise on top of them already being over-inflated it's now just ridiculous.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by JointStrikeFighter »

Move to another city if Melbourne is so unlivable.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by Stark »

Is the RTA a Queensland thing or Federal? Some of my friends have bounced arobd sharehouses for ages and leaning on landlords to fix things is easy.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

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Rental auctions have also occurred in Perth during the boom times. They may return again in the next year or so when we expect our economy to pick up.

I think rising house prices are a combination of lack of supply (in the provinces of the states), banks lending credit like mad where we can borrow 110% of the loan (blame that on a lack of regulation which occurred way before Rudd), tax rules like negative gearing (again before Rudd and now political poison to try and scrap it) and population explosion (which was already occurring before Rudd and wasn't helped by Costello's having "one child for mum, one for dad and one for the country" coupled with a baby bonus).
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

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JointStrikeFighter wrote:Move to another city if Melbourne is so unlivable.
Problem is that my job is based in the centre of Melbourne's "I'm a trendy douchebag" suburb, so living close to work is out due to cost (and the fact that I'd rather not raise my kid in a suburb inhabited solely by hipsters and dying drug addicts). Hence I live in an "inner suburb" (about 15km from the city and further from my work) with great public transport because it was easy for both my wife and I to get to work (as she was based in the other direction) and the benefits outweigh the (ever increasing) cost.

And we are at the moment looking for houses in a town (which in about 3 years will probably be a suburb given the growth out that way) about an hours drive out of Melbourne where housing is about 1/2-2/3s of the cost and where I can commute by train fairly easily each day.

Sure, services in the town are limited as it's classified as regional, but the fact is we could afford to live there easily on one income if needed and with a second income we could easily afford to send our child to the excellent private school that's in that town.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by JointStrikeFighter »

Don't you work for Centrelink ando? I hear they have offices all around Australia.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

Post by Danny Bhoy »

As a longtime absentee landlord of a 3 bdrm apt in 3053 just down the road from the yoonie and with another new apt being built in 3000 (Franklin St), the Aussie property market has been great for us blood-suc... i mean investors, especially given the strength of the aussie dollar. But if I were like weemadando living and working there, I'd be fucking raging. You guys are really getting screwed over.

The apt in 3053 would have been affordable for us even without neg gearing, but with neg gearing, it made things so much easier than we could afford a second property using existing funds including the rental proceeds from the first apt in less than 20 years without additional financing. And my family is not even wealthy by S'pore standards.
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Re: Lets talk tax (Australia)

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JointStrikeFighter wrote:Don't you work for Centrelink ando? I hear they have offices all around Australia.
Yeah, but the role that I am in now generally only has one of it per 2 offices. So if I want to go to another office I have to go to the bottom of the dogpile again and go back to being frontline customer service. And option which is not really that appealing for obvious reasons.
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