Question regarding good laptops to buy

[Temujin]

Got another computer related question.

First I want to thank everyone who provided input in the Total War thread, it really helped.

Now, I currently have two desktops, both Dells. The older one I got in 2005, and was fine up until about six months ago. I've had it in the shop a couple times, but they can't give me a definite answer on what might be wrong (it will decide not to boot for weeks and then start and work fine, especially when it’s in the shop). At first they said it might be the hard drive, then maybe the motherboard or something else, but they can't get a positive determination from any of their diagnostic tests. Either way it seems to be on its way out.

Yesterday it just pulled its act again, so I’m figuring I’ll probably replace it with a laptop in the near future when I have the extra money to do so. My question is, based on your knowledge and experiences (which IT wise is pretty extensive on this board), what companies and models would you recommend to look into (or stay away from).

Performance wise I’m looking for something fairly powerful, but not top of the line. My first desktop was a Gateway, and based on how lousy their service became since I originally bought it, I’ve stayed away from them. And while I’ve bought two Dells, their reputation with laptops has been less than stellar, though the ones I’ve used at jobs didn’t give me any real problems.

So what do you guys and gals think?

[Losonti Tokash]

Stay the fuck away from HP. Every single one I've looked at has the same design flaw: all the heat comes out one tiny vent near the left hinge, which will warp and break in half. And they'll want $300 to fix it.

[General Zod]

I can't comment on Gateway's service since I do all the maintenance on my machines myself, but I'm going to go ahead and recommend a Gateway FX anyway. I bought one about a year and a half ago and it's been able to run pretty much every game I've put on it without many troubles. For about $1,200 (perhaps less in recent months) it's a pretty good bang for your buck gaming setup.

[phongn]

Thinkpad T-series.

[Norade]

My Toshiba satellite 900 series machine was a heavy beast of a desktop replacement but it lasted me a long while even after I dropped something on it and wrecked its display. It only died after I replaced it and my roomy started to run it all day long in the sun at the beach as his music player.

[The Kernel]

Thinkpad T-series.

Good machines, but very much a business class laptop and it is a tad light on graphics horsepower for my tastes, even with the optional Quadro.

As for the OP, you need to give more details on what is important to you for me to make a recommendation. Specifically you need to answer the following questions:

1) How much does battery life matter and are you willing to trade it off for performance?
2) How much does weight matter? Can you deal with an 8 pound machine or would you like something more portable?
3) What screen size are you looking for? There are really three classes here: Sub-15", 15"-16" and 17"+.

If you can answer those three I can give you a whole slew of options at different price points.

[Temujin]

As for the OP, you need to give more details on what is important to you for me to make a recommendation. Specifically you need to answer the following questions:

1) How much does battery life matter and are you willing to trade it off for performance?
2) How much does weight matter? Can you deal with an 8 pound machine or would you like something more portable?
3) What screen size are you looking for? There are really three classes here: Sub-15", 15"-16" and 17"+.

If you can answer those three I can give you a whole slew of options at different price points.

1) Battery life is not as important as performance. It will probably run on batteries only when absolutely necessary; as I have found out is generally best from using work laptops.

2) Weight not an issue. Basic portability when compared to a desktop is all that matters. Hell, I'd probably go with one of those thick Toughbooks if I could afford one.

3) Kinda mixed on this. I'd like a decent size screen when I'm out, but at home I'll probably just attach it to my KVM switch and use my desktop's keyboard, monitor and mouse.

[Norade]

One last bit, what's your budget for a new laptop? I'd hate to poke around for you and find something to cheap or too expensive.

EDIT: Would something like this work for you?

I'm also going to note that I'm not that well versed in laptops and am just going to give a few examples of what I might look at myself so others can chime in and give their opinion on things.

[PeZook]

I can tell you what to avoid: stay the fuck away from HP DV series (their business laptops are supposedly quite good, though) and Toshiba Qosmios. They both suck from a reliability standpoint. Same goes for any "multimedia platform" from Asus.

As for the Thinkpads, watch out. Lenovo suffered a sharp drop in quality some time ago, and while they've been doing their damnedest to fix it, I'd be a little wary.

[The Kernel]

1) Battery life is not as important as performance. It will probably run on batteries only when absolutely necessary; as I have found out is generally best from using work laptops.

2) Weight not an issue. Basic portability when compared to a desktop is all that matters. Hell, I'd probably go with one of those thick Toughbooks if I could afford one.

3) Kinda mixed on this. I'd like a decent size screen when I'm out, but at home I'll probably just attach it to my KVM switch and use my desktop's keyboard, monitor and mouse.

Alright I think I have a good idea of what you want. My suggestion is to either go with a Thinkpad T series like Phong suggested if you want a rugged laptop or a Sony Vaio F series if you want a more multimedia powerhouse machine. Both have excellent build quality, with the Magnesium Thinkpad being more sturdy and with better battery life, but the Sony Vaio has a nicer screen (16.4" 1080p), a quad core processor and better graphics.

If you get either make sure that you custom build your order to include a high res screen and at least 4GB of memory. The Vaio also has a 9 cell battery option for longer battery life, but its never going to be a true road machine with that 45nm quad.

[Dragon Angel]

I wouldn't suggest Sony, to be honest. Their laptops are often quite pricey for what you may get, and most of the Vaios that I have worked on have tended to contain a lot of useless software, that really all just serve to bog down your system's resources. I also recommend against buying an HP (and Compaq, which is part of HP) - I have much too many horror stories to tell related to their consumer laptops, which are probably built out of extremely cheap parts (I'm guessing this based on how many I have personally seen break, even allegedly on second- or third-use out of the box!). They also have a similar problem as with Sony when it comes to installing a lot of shoddy software. As far as their business-brand laptops go, I cannot say a word, as I don't think I have seen them yet.

I will agree with phong and The Kernel on the ThinkPad. I think the sharp drop-off in quality PeZook mentioned is related to the software Lenovo develops, for instance their drivers. An example would be: I upgraded my old laptop from 2006 to Windows 7 not too long ago, and installed the latest version of Lenovo's fingerprint reader software. Based on how many problems I have had with this, as compared to an older version created by IBM back then, I will definitely confirm a decline in at least that. Most of the other drivers on my laptop were provided by Microsoft, so I can't really say anything about how Lenovo treats their other ones. What I will say is that Lenovo's hardware quality nowadays IS still consistent with their older ThinkPads. You really do get what you pay for in their case, and Lenovo's extra software is still pretty simple and easy to remove if you so desired to.

Well, that's all this IT has to say on the matter. If you have any other Lenovo questions, feel free to ask.

[The Kernel]

I wouldn't suggest Sony, to be honest. Their laptops are often quite pricey for what you may get, and most of the Vaios that I have worked on have tended to contain a lot of useless software, that really all just serve to bog down your system's resources. I also recommend against buying an HP (and Compaq, which is part of HP) - I have much too many horror stories to tell related to their consumer laptops, which are probably built out of extremely cheap parts (I'm guessing this based on how many I have personally seen break, even allegedly on second- or third-use out of the box!). They also have a similar problem as with Sony when it comes to installing a lot of shoddy software. As far as their business-brand laptops go, I cannot say a word, as I don't think I have seen them yet.

Two points to make here:

1) The price premium for Sony Vaio laptops is much less than it used to be. Check out the price versus specs on the model I recommended, it is actually a very fair price for what you get. You know of somewhere else you can get a 16.4" laptop with a quad core and blu-ray drive for under $1000? Maybe it's possible but I doubt they have Sony's build quality.

2) Sony is one of the only companies that offers "Clean Start" with zero software clutter bundled with it. It is "free" in that you only need to upgrade to Win 7 Pro ($50) and you get it included.

I will agree with phong and The Kernel on the ThinkPad. I think the sharp drop-off in quality PeZook mentioned is related to the software Lenovo develops, for instance their drivers. An example would be: I upgraded my old laptop from 2006 to Windows 7 not too long ago, and installed the latest version of Lenovo's fingerprint reader software. Based on how many problems I have had with this, as compared to an older version created by IBM back then, I will definitely confirm a decline in at least that. Most of the other drivers on my laptop were provided by Microsoft, so I can't really say anything about how Lenovo treats their other ones. What I will say is that Lenovo's hardware quality nowadays IS still consistent with their older ThinkPads. You really do get what you pay for in their case, and Lenovo's extra software is still pretty simple and easy to remove if you so desired to.

Thinkpads are great but they are still business laptops which means matte screens, low end graphics hardware and lower resolution screens. There also isn't a quad core option for the T series and the W series is priced right into the stratosphere. You also can't get niceties such as a blu-ray drive or 1080p screen option.

I would definitely buy a Thinkpad as a work machine but not for home use.

[Dragon Angel]

Two points to make here:

1) The price premium for Sony Vaio laptops is much less than it used to be. Check out the price versus specs on the model I recommended, it is actually a very fair price for what you get. You know of somewhere else you can get a 16.4" laptop with a quad core and blu-ray drive for under $1000? Maybe it's possible but I doubt they have Sony's build quality.

2) Sony is one of the only companies that offers "Clean Start" with zero software clutter bundled with it. It is "free" in that you only need to upgrade to Win 7 Pro ($50) and you get it included.

Hmm ok, I did a price comparison just now between that (a "Vaio F VPCF112FX/B") and a ThinkPad T410, and you seem to be correct there. The Vaio F, on the website, is advertised to be $1200, while a similarly-configured T410 is always coming out to be over $1500.

How is Sony's technical support and warranty system in your opinion? Lenovo provides both a defect-based and accidental damage warranty, and I assume Sony does the same, but this could also be a critical selling point to Temujin.

Thinkpads are great but they are still business laptops which means matte screens, low end graphics hardware and lower resolution screens. There also isn't a quad core option for the T series and the W series is priced right into the stratosphere. You also can't get niceties such as a blu-ray drive or 1080p screen option.

I would definitely buy a Thinkpad as a work machine but not for home use.

Unfortunately, yes, the ThinkPad T series does not really have as much graphical power as other laptops in its class. As far as matte vs. glossy screens are concerned, that is mostly a matter of preference - I personally prefer a matte screen because I am usually in very lit-up rooms, so the type of light reflection that can result from having a glossy screen drives me up the wall.

[The Kernel]

Hmm ok, I did a price comparison just now between that (a "Vaio F VPCF112FX/B") and a ThinkPad T410, and you seem to be correct there. The Vaio F, on the website, is advertised to be $1200, while a similarly-configured T410 is always coming out to be over $1500.

You can't compare those two machines. The T410 has a dual core Core i5 and a 14" screen compared to the 16.4" quad core Core i7 Vaio F.

How is Sony's technical support and warranty system in your opinion? Lenovo provides both a defect-based and accidental damage warranty, and I assume Sony does the same, but this could also be a critical selling point to Temujin.

Sony service plans include accidental damage protection like cracked screens. They also cover all depot shipping and seem to check all the right boxes on paper.

I don't have much experience dealing with them mind you, but my dad uses Sony pretty exclusively and has no complaints about their tech support.

Unfortunately, yes, the ThinkPad T series does not really have as much graphical power as other laptops in its class.

Yes it does, it compares fine to machines like Dell Lattitude and HP Probook. However, that's exactly why I say that a business class machine isn't the best option for a home user unless they simply must have the added ruggedness.

As far as matte vs. glossy screens are concerned, that is mostly a matter of preference - I personally prefer a matte screen because I am usually in very lit-up rooms, so the type of light reflection that can result from having a glossy screen drives me up the wall.

Indeed, but most home users prefer glossy and since Temujin mentioned mostly using it indoors I think the glossy is probably the way to go.

[Temujin]

One last bit, what's your budget for a new laptop? I'd hate to poke around for you and find something to cheap or too expensive.

EDIT: Would something like this work for you?

I'm also going to note that I'm not that well versed in laptops and am just going to give a few examples of what I might look at myself so others can chime in and give their opinion on things.

I'm using roughly $1000.00 as a benchmark based on some preliminary window shopping. I figure that is a good average to shoot for in terms of cost vs capabilities that I'm looking for.

2) Sony is one of the only companies that offers "Clean Start" with zero software clutter bundled with it. It is "free" in that you only need to upgrade to Win 7 Pro ($50) and you get it included.

That's something I'm definitely looking for. A good example is my two computers from Dell. The first is a Dimension 5100, and like the Gateway I had, was bundled with all sorts of useless crap programs I didn't ask for and certainly didn't want. The second is an XPS, and it came basically clean with just Windows and basic related programs like IE (though I use FF instead).

I should probably clarify my level of IT related knowledge and skill. When it comes to IT related stuff I'm generally more capable then the average person when it comes to using computers, but because I haven't had the formal training nor the time and money to learn via experimentation, I can at be at a loss if things get too complicated. I would have like to have gotten more of an IT education when I went back to school, but unfortunately going evenings and weekend my options were a bit limited.

[The Kernel]

I would avoid Dell if I were you...I had a terrible experience with them recently. I ordered a Dell XPS Studio 16 and they delayed my order no less than THREE TIMES (each time by 7 days and always the day it was scheduled to ship) without any explanation or compensation. I finally ended up canceling the order and going with the Sony F instead which shipped in a custom build AHEAD of schedule (within three days of ordering it).

[Temujin]

I check their site just to get an idea what type of capabilities are available for the price; but they have gone downhill, and their laptops were never considered as good as their desktops.

[The Kernel]

By the way, Sony is running a special right now on the F series which includes a free Blu-Ray upgrade. If you just do the recommended minimum upgrades on a configured build with the high res screen plus GPU upgrades (they are bundled together), 4GB of RAM, 7200RPM HD, and Win 7 Pro (with Clean Start) the total comes to $1250.

Personally I'd say that's a pretty killer deal for a machine with those specs.

EDIT: The complete specs of my recommended build look like this:

Sony Vaio F Series

- Intel® Core™ i7-820QM
- 4GB DDR3
- GeForce 330GT w/ 1GB GDDR3
- 16.4" Widescreen VAIO Display (1920x1080)
- 320GB 7200RPM Hard Drive
- Blu-Ray Drive
- Win 7 Pro w/ Clean Start
- 802.11n and all the usual connectivity options

There is also a backlit keyboard option for $25 (very reasonable and useful) and a 9 cell battery upgrade for $100 (probably unnecessary for you, but it's there).

[The Kernel]

Whoops, I meant Intel® Core™ i7-720QM for the processor, not the unnecessary higher spec one.

[Temujin]

Thanks Kernel (and everyone else for their input), that's a pretty nice laptop.

Do you know how long the Blu-Ray upgrade is going on for, I didn't see an exp. date like Dell usually gives for their offers. While its a bit sooner then I was planning on, I may take the plunge and buy that model anyway.

[montypython]

How do the Lenovo Thinkpad W-series laptops compare with the T-series, out of curiosity?

[The Kernel]

Thanks Kernel (and everyone else for their input), that's a pretty nice laptop.

Do you know how long the Blu-Ray upgrade is going on for, I didn't see an exp. date like Dell usually gives for their offers. While its a bit sooner then I was planning on, I may take the plunge and buy that model anyway.

No clue sorry.

How do the Lenovo Thinkpad W-series laptops compare with the T-series, out of curiosity?

They are more of a workstation class with quad cores and more serious graphics options. The high end spec even has a secondary "tablet" that folds out and provides a drawing surface.

However, their price is formidable unless you happen to do CAD work on a regular basis.