SGU "Sabotage" [season 1 episode 16] (Spoilers)

[NecronLord]

Discussion thread for the continuing adventures of the Alteran Starship Fatum.

[Temujin]

My thoughts, typed while viewing:

Well shit, just when people were thinking we wouldn't see the stones used again. A bit of mixed feelings on them bringing in an outsider when it would have been a perfect opportunity to have McKay or Carter, but then it makes sense that there's probably a small army of scientists and specialists who work behind the scenes that we never hear about. Oh, and even more character building for Lt. James. (Yeah, I know Wray has more too, but I really can't bring myself to care).

And I'm having a little problem with the void jump. I mean we know the space between galaxies isn't exactly empty, unless the ship is a bit inflexible; i.e., programmed to jump from the farthest edge of one galaxy's halo to another, and won't detour to a random star(s) that takes it on a zigzag course.

As for the sabotage, I'm guessing it’s the Blue Man Group using their own set of stones. Edit: Looks like I'm right.

As for Eli and crew returning, that was rather sudden and unexpected; I wonder if there's a twist in here. Edit: Guess not.

I was wondering when we'd see Franklin again, IIRC they just referred to his condition once or twice. And poof, gone in a cloud dry ice generated fog.

OK, I've got to give it a four again, pretty good, but it felt a bit rushed.

[CaptJodan]

I enjoyed this episode. Perhaps it was the somewhat rushed feel of it, but it's nice to have a few episodes that rush while others kind of drag. There was a lot going on to keep my interest.

Scott and company's return did seem a bit sudden, but also seemed to make the most sense. We as much as saw the lights go out on his dialing device when the ship jumped, and the entire plot of last week was that the dialing device would know if it sensed the ship again, so while it was a bit of a rush job, it was mitigated by decent reasoning.

I enjoyed the Rush-ancient engine expert dynamic. From what I recall (I'm sure Necronlord can fill in the details) this episode got a lot of flack for its use of a disabled person in this role. I'm not quite sure why, but maybe I missed something. These people still seemed believable. I also enjoyed James pulling away from the experience. She's trying very hard to have Young see her as a competent solider, and yet she just couldn't do what he wanted there. Great development for her. I'm really starting to join the ranks of this board in liking her far better than most of the other characters.

It seemed to me from the visuals that Destiny was really far from the galaxy it had come from already, unless I don't understand how it would look from that distance. I would THINK that had the gate that Scott and company came from been able to reach as far as we saw, it could probably cover the entire galaxy. Thus, I think the visuals in this scene were just to show us "hey, we're in the void" rather than be representative of how far they'd actually gotten. Either that, or the galaxy would still look like that only a few hundred (thousand) light years out, and I don't know this.

I'm happy that the little robotic pod didn't turn out to be an early drone system like some suggested it might be.

I also enjoyed that the ship wasn't repaired in the usual half an hour. It took at least 3 weeks to make a bypass on what is clearly a complicated ship. In other words, a realistic time frame. I'm ok with that.

All and all, probably one of the better episodes of the run. Easily makes a 4, but I'm going to give it a 5 because so far it's about the best I've seen.

[Xon]

I very much like nod to all the redundancies and safeguards that Destiny has to keep it running.

[Covenant]

Not as bad as it coulda' been, but not good either. Giving this one a 2, but since I'm not adverse to giving this show a 1, that's not a surprisingly low blow.

The best of this episode was only okay. As an early advocate of the "James is now the most likable and identifiable" position, seeing her get some good acting time was nice, but I wish it wasn't making her seem weak. I woulda' liked if she'd actually have been the one to stay in the chair and let us learn about her like we had with Rush and Greer.

Rush did a good job, but it was such a subdued role that he never seemed to grab the screen. I liked seeing some ship repair, but something about the way Destiny is modeled and lit makes it hard for me to tell what's going on outside the hull sometimes. I probably need an HD tv or something, but I could barely tell what the Robot was up to, and bringing it out of nowhere for a minor bit of use was just bland. Similarly I was glad that the Lost Boys got back to the ship this episode, but really, really unhappy that they just dialed back. I thought they were short ranged gates? Oh well, plus, I woulda' preferred having Eli and Chloe fix the alien ship, and for that to have been how Blue Man Group found them. Then they can examine alien tech, discuss if they keep it or dump it to avoid detection, and possibly open the door for further stuff.

That was basically about it.

On the other hand, I really didn't like Mrs. Engine Repair, and I don't even remember her name. It had nothing to do with her disability, but I found her personality offputting (which is odd since she barely had one) and the scenes with Rush more creepy than romantic. Once again I take issue to the ease at which people try to use others' bodies for a variety of fluid exchange, but they avoided it, so kudos. And once more Young shows he's probably the least effective, least motivational leadership candidate on the ship.

Blue man group's magical stone usage along with the not-even-pictured body-swap thing just felt tacked on, as did the method by which Eli and crew arrived. The engine repair gal also felt forced and since I didn't even like her, I resented the entire premise of the episode. Yeah yeah, the heavy symbolism of damaged ship and several damaged people all under the 'sabotaged' moniker, I get it. I also understand that I'm the only person in the world who would have no interest in wasting time and fruit on building a still on a spacecraft, and find it really unprofessional and dumb, but even though I know that's a minority opinion it still annoys me. As did the "Derp de doo he ascended while in the chair," which I presume is what happened, and what I assumed WOULD happen, especially when Summoned From Planet Drama gal dangled Chehkov's Ascension Gun in the middle of a random and unnecessary conversation with Eli.

If he didn't ascend, but just became 'one with the ship' or something... well, okay. But I was watching this via OnDemand so I didn't get the next-week preview and can't tell.

I liked the more thoughtful episode on Rush and the one on the planet, so this felt rushed, scatterbrained, and poorly written. No one plot was given adequate time, and none of them were even that good. It felt like a tepid jumble with forced weepy drama, imposed weakness, and really just had nothing for me. The ONLY reason this isn't a 1 is because it tied up a lot of loose ends and I'm giving them +1 for making James more of a headliner. I don't know if they're highlighting her massive rack or if it's just inevitable that we get a little nipple, but at least James' portrayl in recent episodes has moved her from "ha ha she's mad we're watching her undress" to a legitimately well-rounded character who just also happens to be extremely busty. I'd like to see her a bit more take-charge and self-assured, but everyone on this ship needs some intestinal fortitude, so it's not unique to her characterization. She seems sympathetic and nice to people, especially coma man. That came outta' nowhere but I appreciate seeing it, and it makes her seem even warmer. I'm still waiting for her kickass soldiering side though.

[adam_grif]

4.

Liked the continuity nods that are going on, I was wondering when Coma guy would finally do something other than sit there. Kind of sad that we're unlikely to see Blue Man Group again, I'm expecting seasonal aliens (assuming 1 galaxy = 1 season). Yay character development. Boo Chloe, Scott and... whoever the other guy is returning so fast.

EDIT:

Eli. This is the second time we've had the "returns the next episode" thing, if they keep it up they'll lose all dramtic tension they get from having characters kidnapped / lost frequently.

[Zac Naloen]

I was kind of hoping we'd get a situation were Franklin becomes sort of the Pilot of Destiny (symbiotic relationship and all that), not sure where they are going with his disappearance but hopefully they've done more than ascended him. That would be a bit rubbish, even if Stargate is ridiculously soft scifi.


An interesting take would have been that he became mentally dependant on the chair and when not in it he is in the vegetative state we saw earlier.

[Siege]

I loved it, which admittedly wasn't what I was expecting at the start of the episode--Wray sat down with the stones and we were treated to a shot of the Pentagon and I found myself thinking "oh dear, here we go again..." But then we got Mandy back for her, and she was vastly more relatable than Wray so that worked out pretty well. I liked her acting quite a bit, especially the little details like the way she didn't quite seem to know what to do with her hands when not working a console. And the dynamic between her and Rush worked very well: I at least could imagine two damaged people forming a bond like theirs, and Rush does seem like the kind of person who'd just forget a person's disability as long as he can talk to them on his own level.

Speaking of Rush, I think Robert Carlyle again stole the show here, what with the way he opened up the moment 'Little Miss Brilliant' showed up... And then immediately shut himself in again the moment Wray took back her body.

Still, I do think there was maybe a little too much going on in this episode. The lost trio just showing back up through the gate after an entire episode of "oh noes we're stranded" felt a bit... Off, not in the least because of the enormous amount of luck everyone who gets lost seems to have in finding their way back onto the Destiny (well, apart from the two people from the 1st episode I guess). But on the upside again, no sparks flew when Destiny was attacked. Thank the Maker for that. And I smiled when the "three weeks later" bit came on the screen, we're treated to an annoyed-looking Colonel Young, and suddenly there is Julian Plenti singing "I've had my frustrations about / the pains of daily life..." Great musical choice again from the producers of this show, indeed almost as good as playing Alexi Murdoch's Breathe under Air Pt. 3.

So, in closing, I think I'm going to rate this a four after all.

[adam_grif]

I should add that while other people commented on it early on, I only just noticed how ridiculously huge Lt James boobs are when watching this episode.

[Alyeska]

Her breasts are noticeable only in certain clothing and camera angles. When she is in full combat uniform, they are surprisingly invisible.

[PREDATOR490]

4

Decent episode.

Would have prefered a more familiar face for the cross over but I like where they went with that character.


As for the guy vanishing, I suspect its either Acension or absorbed into the ship. Either way it was a bit stupid and if it is the latter, I suppose they might turn him into a personified version of Destiny. Much like Lexa Doig did for Andromeda. The aliens will be coming back I suspect, either via the Stargates or intergalactic drives.

[Sarevok]

Her breasts are noticeable only in certain clothing and camera angles. When she is in full combat uniform, they are surprisingly invisible.

Speaking of breasts is it me or does Chloe seems to have slightly bigger ones this season ?

[Temujin]

Her breasts are noticeable only in certain clothing and camera angles. When she is in full combat uniform, they are surprisingly invisible.

It's generally when she's just wearing her undershirt, her BDU top covers her up pretty well; but they are fucking huge, not that I mind.

The aliens will be coming back I suspect, either via the Stargates or intergalactic drives.

NecronLord might have some insight into this, but I don't know about that. Everything I've heard indicates that we're going to get different alien antagonists for each galaxy they visit.

[Sarevok]

I was kind of hoping we'd get a situation were Franklin becomes sort of the Pilot of Destiny (symbiotic relationship and all that), not sure where they are going with his disappearance but hopefully they've done more than ascended him. That would be a bit rubbish, even if Stargate is ridiculously soft scifi.

Pilot ? As in Farscape ?

I think you expect too much from a series like SGU. That level of creativity is way beyond a show about hormonal people trapped on a ship they cant control. I am not saying that SGU is bad but it never shows anything amazing or creates a sense of awe and wonder. The closest it came was in the first season episode "Time". SGU is a quite decent weekly scifi series to watch at a time when there is absolutely nothing else on TV featuring spaceships. But I would not expect anything bold or exciting from this series.

[Temujin]

That's what I was thinking. All we need is Lani Tupu as a guest star.

[Sarevok]

That's what I was thinking. All we need is Lani Tupu as a guest star.

In that case if they Use the stones to bring in Vala and Mitchell Destiny would become another Moya.

[NecronLord]

4.

Liked the continuity nods that are going on, I was wondering when Coma guy would finally do something other than sit there. Kind of sad that we're unlikely to see Blue Man Group again, I'm expecting seasonal aliens (assuming 1 galaxy = 1 season). Yay character development. Boo Chloe, Scott and... whoever the other guy is returning so fast.

Eli.

I wouldn't count the Aliens out yet. Why are we assuming they're not capable of intergalactic drive?
Spoiler

The aliens will be back. We've seen in the previews that they will be dialling into the Destiny Stargate in some episode this demiseason.

[NecronLord]

I really loved this episode. More to come, but did anyone else find the robot awesomely cute like some kind of Alteran Wall-E?

[Temujin]

I really loved this episode. More to come, but did anyone else find the robot awesomely cute like some kind of Alteran Wall-E?

Come to think of it there was a resemblance there.

[Siege]

The robot got very little screentime for something that obviously must've cost quite a bit to bring to life in CGI... So I imagine we'll be seeing it again.

As for the people complaining about a lack of "awe and wonder", I do have to ask... Has there ever been a series about a bunch of people lost in the great wild yonder done better than SGU? Whether it's Voyager, Atlantis or Lost in Space, I genuinely can't recall a show that handled the issues (both general and inter-personal) between a bunch of random people stranded in the middle of nowhere better than SGU. Besides, we've seen strange new worlds, temporal hijinks, an Ancient spacecraft, alien intruders... Honestly, answer me this--what would Universe have to do to live up to your expectations of "awe and wonder"?

Also, as much as people might have been praying for Carter or McKay, the second they began talking about bringing in an expert I found myself wishing it'd be someone we'd never met before. Because this is an Ancient spacecraft and let's be fair here: as much as McKay and Carter might be the resident supergeniuses of respecively Atlantis and SG-1, by rights there should be a whole host of people who've been working full-time on Prometheus, Daedalus and whatever spacecraft came after those two who've probably been conducting full-time research of hyperspace mechanics (or whatever) instead of being waylaid every week by some random issue that needed their attention stat. I very much liked how that was acknowledged here: the foremost expert for once wasn't Carter, Jackson, McKay, Zelenka, Lee or whoever; it was someone we'd never met before. Thank goodness for that.

[The Yosemite Bear]

let me catch it later this week before I vote (I was watching The Spirit and Monsters vs. Aliens last night)

[JME2]

I liked it a lot; best episode in a while and a nice advancement of the plot threads for James, the Blue Man Group, Franklin, and even the robot.

5/5

[Oskuro]

Nice episode, I agree that some bits seemed out of place, but good overall.

I'm thinking about an interesting bit, it took about 3 weeks for the Blue Man Group ships to reach Destiny's position, wich gives quite an idea of the tech disparity between the two, and maybe even a motivation for their interest in the ship. If I'm not mistaken, in previous encounters with the Blue Man Group, they took some time to reach Destiny's position, even with the tracking devices, so, even during regular jumps, Destiny's drive outclasses theirs.

Regarding the range of the gates, I'm thinking that Destiny's jumps might be pretty massive, thus making it out of range of an specific gate by the second jump away, yet, if the Sabotage happened early in the jump, then they might have been close enough for Eli, Chloe and Scott's gate to be still in range, wich explains the solution better than a simple "the gates should be able to reach all across the galaxy" wich has been shown as not being the case.

I'm still not sure that a regular jump is faster than an intergalactic jump. It should be, but not sure if there are numbers on Destiny's regular speed.

[adam_grif]

If it's taking them months to cross a galaxy, then an intergalactic jump either has to be much faster than usual (for whatever reason), or it's going to take fucking forever.

[Covenant]

As for the people complaining about a lack of "awe and wonder", I do have to ask... Has there ever been a series about a bunch of people lost in the great wild yonder done better than SGU? Whether it's Voyager, Atlantis or Lost in Space, I genuinely can't recall a show that handled the issues (both general and inter-personal) between a bunch of random people stranded in the middle of nowhere better than SGU. Besides, we've seen strange new worlds, temporal hijinks, an Ancient spacecraft, alien intruders... Honestly, answer me this--what would Universe have to do to live up to your expectations of "awe and wonder"?

Would it be too easy to say parts of nBSG did? I think it did that pretty well, that abhorrent last season set aside. Early seasons of nBSG struck a good balance between internal and external threats, drama and action. Later seasons didn't... but yeah.

Part of the problem is that this show is intensely personal, rather than being adventure-based, which means you actually have to care in order to feel drawn in. The biggest threats they seem to face are all the result of each other, and so you need to want someone to win, or lose, or feel something about the fights. Things like bad communication, hurt feelings, love, lust, betrayl, etc. And that's an interesting premise, but it has to be written well or be acted compellingly. That's a bit hit or miss right now, what with a majority of the cast being genuinely unlikeable, so if or if not you're intrigued by their journey is a bit of a crapshoot.

For a viewer like me, seeing people behave this way turns me off. In a show like SG-1 you may not know who you like, but you do like explosions and ass-kicking, and you associate those good feelings with the characters. You then have a reason to care when we learn more about them, as well as a context, and then the next time they go into danger, you feel more about them then too. So far I haven't seen the characters really do much that I enjoy, so when we have their moments of angst, my response is one of frustration rather than interest.

Part of the problem is also that the characters are not really admirable, heroic, or interesting. Rush is one of the few exceptions, since he benefits from the Villainous Doctor Smith sort of vibe while also having a complex backstory and motivations. Almost nobody else is really interesting. And none of them, even Rush, make me excited to see them come on. I suppose the difference is that they react to events which are more interesting than they are, while good characters seem to be awesome no matter what they're doing.

Eh, that's just me. Awe and wonder are really pretty secondary. I think anyone who feels no sense of wonder feels that way because the characters have not adequately expressed it. Plus, we've seen plenty of ruins and shots of British Columbia in stargate before, just going to worlds doesn't really cut it. Atlantis had more memorable characters and action than this, and it still (rightly) got some criticism when it was derivative. SGU's new direction is a good idea, they just need to make it work.