Man claims to have gone 70 years without food or water

[UnderAGreySky]

On a sort of related note, there is a ritual amongst the followers of Jainism (an offshoot of Hinduism but a religion of its' own right) to fast for a month drinking only boiled water. I've known people who do it and the horrendous effect it has on their body. Also, once you do this fast, you are obligated to

1) Repeat it on an annual basis
2) Never eat after sunset and before sunrise for the rest of your life

according to the fanatical followers. I have a friend whose father died because he refused to be put on saline in the night-time when in the hospital for treatment. One of the many things in the long list that contributed towards my atheism.

Also, extreme Jains are not just vegetarian, but they will not eat anything grown underground. No potatoes, no onions, no garlic, no carrots... In fact, when Jains go abroad on holidays, they book tours where a special chef accompanies the group as they go from place to place!

(sorry for the threadjack, but I thought the above would be at least interesting if not amusing)

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Atmospheric humidity would be a factor in how long he can go without water as well as heat. If the room is extremely high humidity and air conditioned and he entered the test thoroughly hydrated I bet he'll get pretty damn impressively far if he's been training his body with deprivation for more than half a century. Because then he isn't really going without water, he's just getting it through his breathing, in the same way Jains aren't really vegans, they get barely just enough vital nutrients which have allowed them to stay alive from the microscopic insects on the vegetables they eat to not all die.

[Simon_Jester]

...Could you expand on what, exactly, they're getting from microscopic insects that isn't in the plants themselves?

My impression was that you could actually put together a vegan diet that would keep you alive; am I wrong?

[Imperial Overlord]

...Could you expand on what, exactly, they're getting from microscopic insects that isn't in the plants themselves?

My impression was that you could actually put together a vegan diet that would keep you alive; am I wrong?

Sure you can if you properly plan out your diet, but the highly restrictive Jain diet won't do it. Until relatively recently, there was enough tiny insect life mixed in with most people's food that it essentially acted as a nutritional supplement.

[Serafina]

My impression was that you could actually put together a vegan diet that would keep you alive; am I wrong?

Well, if you are eating purely vegan, you lack at least one important nutrietient (don't ask me for the name right now, for i am tired).
Many vegans take it in pill form, which is ironically processed from slaughter waste (y'know, bones'n stuff).
However, i do not recall wether it was vital for survival or merely severely detremential to health.

Vegetarians do not have that problem if they balance their diet the right way, but vegans simply limit themself too much for that.

[The Spartan]

Well, if you are eating purely vegan, you lack at least one important nutrietient (don't ask me for the name right now, for i am tired).

B12.

You're thinking of B12.

[Serafina]

Well, if you are eating purely vegan, you lack at least one important nutrietient (don't ask me for the name right now, for i am tired).

B12.

You're thinking of B12.

That's propably it.
Either way, i'm off to bed now.

[Broomstick]

...Could you expand on what, exactly, they're getting from microscopic insects that isn't in the plants themselves?

My impression was that you could actually put together a vegan diet that would keep you alive; am I wrong?

Vitamin B12.

There are no reliable natural sources of B12 in the human diet other than animals, including insects (ultimately, the source is bacteria, but humans obtain it through the food chain, not directly from bacteria). You don't need very much, but you do need it. If your diet entirely lacks it you will eventually die, and it's not terribly pleasant as the lack damages the human nervous system. It is required for the nervous system to operate, for blood production, fatty acid synthesis, and energy production.

You only need 2-3 µg a day. Historically, people like Jains who have been extreme vegans have obtained the B12 they need through insect and fecal contamination of their food (animal feces contain B12 synthesized from gut bacteria - humans can't utilize that produced in their own intestines because the synthesizing bacteria live further down the digestive tract than the B12 absorbing part of the guy.) With such small amounts needed you only need a little contamination. In modern societies with stringent food controls, such as the UK, there have been problems with Jains suffering from B12 deficiency because there's not enough contamination to keep them healthy! A prohibition on anything that grows below ground just compounds the problem, as a little dirt on your food (along with insect/animal shit and soil bacteria) can stave off B12 deficiency.

Which is not a suggestion to eat dirt, of course. But a little consumption of animal product goes a long way to avoiding this problem.

[Eulogy]

You only need 2-3 µg a day. Historically, people like Jains who have been extreme vegans have obtained the B12 they need through insect and fecal contamination of their food (animal feces contain B12 synthesized from gut bacteria - humans can't utilize that produced in their own intestines because the synthesizing bacteria live further down the digestive tract than the B12 absorbing part of the guy.)

That is really fucking stupid. It's yet another example of why Mother Nature is a sadistic bitch; seriously, we naturally make a crucial chemical but we can't even collect it? We needed genetic engineering last century; that way we can actually have some intelligent designers. Suck on that, cretinists!

With such small amounts needed you only need a little contamination. In modern societies with stringent food controls, such as the UK, there have been problems with Jains suffering from B12 deficiency because there's not enough contamination to keep them healthy!

That's one of the most ironic situations I've ever heard of. It's like saying that you need disease to get well. Was the irony lost on them, I wonder?

[Sky Captain]

That's one of the most ironic situations I've ever heard of. It's like saying that you need disease to get well. Was the irony lost on them, I wonder?

There is some truth there. Humans need to be exposed to various bacteria to stimulate their immune system especially when young. Those kids who live in nearly sterile environments are more likely to have weaker immune system than those kids who regularly get exposed to dirt, animals and whatnot.

[Broomstick]

You only need 2-3 µg a day. Historically, people like Jains who have been extreme vegans have obtained the B12 they need through insect and fecal contamination of their food (animal feces contain B12 synthesized from gut bacteria - humans can't utilize that produced in their own intestines because the synthesizing bacteria live further down the digestive tract than the B12 absorbing part of the gut.)

That is really fucking stupid. It's yet another example of why Mother Nature is a sadistic bitch; seriously, we naturally make a crucial chemical but we can't even collect it?

Sure you can collect on it - just eat a dose of your own shit. Of course, there are also some drawbacks to that...

Some animals, such as ruminants, do have access to the B12 their gut bacteria make. Others, such as rabbits, do eat some of their own shit and get it that way. Animals like horses get their needed dose by accidentally ingesting insects while grazing. And, truth be told, a lot of animals presumed vegetarian actually will at least nibble meat if they have the opportunity, which would also provide what they need.

In the natural environment where food isn't hygienic it all works well enough.

[Broomstick]

Oh - I forgot to mention. The human body is quite good at storing B12 - your body might easily retain years worth of the vitamin. That's part of the insidiousness of deficiency. After you switch to a diet without it, it could take 5-10 years for you to exhaust your internal supplies of it. So a person could adopt an extreme diet, do well on it for years, then develop problems or even die of B12 deficiency.

[Purple]

Any word of a fallow up article to see just how long this guy lasted before meeting the reaper?

[Sarevok]

Any word of a fallow up article to see just how long this guy lasted before meeting the reaper?

As I said this took place in India. They don't have someone like James Randi there yet who publicly debunks frauds like this. The fraud in question was actually reviewed by the army who wanted to learn from him. You can see from that how bad superstitious beliefs pervades segments of Indian society.

[UnderAGreySky]

We used to have someone like Randi, called Abraham Kovoor. It seems his challenge preceeded Randi's by 5 years!

Sadly, he passed away. The guy who continued the challenge is nearly not as well known or public

[tim31]

After reading this thread I looked up on this Jasmuheen woman and the Breatharian nonsense. Holy shit; if it weren't for the deaths of misled people, it would be hilarious. Choice quote?

In the "Question and Answer" section of his website, Brooks explains that the "Double Quarter-Pounder with Cheese" meal from McDonald's possesses a special "base frequency" and that he thus recommends it as occasional food for beginning breatharians. He then goes on to reveal that Diet Coke is "liquid light". Prospective disciples are asked after some time following the junk food/magic word preparation to revisit his website in order to test if they can feel the magic.

[LaCroix]

And, truth be told, a lot of animals presumed vegetarian actually will at least nibble meat if they have the opportunity, which would also provide what they need.

In Iceland, dry herring was a hay substitute for horses. There are also more than one anecdote of Icelandic horses stealing slaughtered Hens or stuff from the bleed-out rack. Living in a very harsh environment that contains little vegetation made them less picky...

[The Kernel]

Vitamin B12.

There are no reliable natural sources of B12 in the human diet other than animals, including insects (ultimately, the source is bacteria, but humans obtain it through the food chain, not directly from bacteria). You don't need very much, but you do need it. If your diet entirely lacks it you will eventually die, and it's not terribly pleasant as the lack damages the human nervous system. It is required for the nervous system to operate, for blood production, fatty acid synthesis, and energy production.

Just so people are clear on this, you can get B12 without eating meat as it is also found in dairy products and eggs so this is really only a problem that affects vegans and not vegetarians.

[stormthebeaches]

Turns out that he's either legitimate or Indian scientists are really incompetent.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100510/to ... 1ab4f.html

An 83-year-old Indian holy man who says he has spent seven decades without food or water has astounded a team of military doctors who studied him during a two-week observation period.

Prahlad Jani spent a fortnight in a hospital in the western India state of Gujarat under constant surveillance from a team of 30 medics equipped with cameras and closed circuit television.

During the period, he neither ate nor drank and did not go to the toilet.

"We still do not know how he survives," neurologist Sudhir Shah told reporters after the end of the experiment. "It is still a mystery what kind of phenomenon this is."

The long-haired and bearded yogi was sealed in a hospital in the city of Ahmedabad in a study initiated by India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the state defence and military research institute.

The DRDO hopes that the findings, set to be released in greater detail in several months, could help soldiers survive without food and drink, assist astronauts or even save the lives of people trapped in natural disasters.

"(Jani's) only contact with any kind of fluid was during gargling and bathing periodically during the period," G. Ilavazahagan, director of India's Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS), said in a statement.

Jani has since returned to his village near Ambaji in northern Gujarat where he will resume his routine of yoga and meditation. He says that he was blessed by a goddess at a young age, which gave him special powers.

During the 15-day observation, which ended on Thursday, the doctors took scans of Jani's organs, brain, and blood vessels, as well as doing tests on his heart, lungs and memory capacity.

"The reports were all in the pre-determined safety range through the observation period," Shah told reporters at a press conference last week.

Other results from DNA analysis, molecular biological studies and tests on his hormones, enzymes, energy metabolism and genes will take months to come through.

"If Jani does not derive energy from food and water, he must be doing that from energy sources around him, sunlight being one," said Shah.

"As medical practitioners we cannot shut our eyes to possibilities, to a source of energy other than calories."

[dworkin]

The article says it all.

"(Jani's) only contact with any kind of fluid was during gargling and bathing periodically during the period," G. Ilavazahagan, director of India's Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS), said in a statement.

Well, duh!

[Broomstick]

Yeah - he's swallowing some of the gargle and pissing while bathing. Fucking idiot observers.

[Setzer]

I've heard of tests like this before. The mouthwash isn't a novel request, but I'd like to see if they're measuring it or not.

[Kuroji]

Didn't they mention that he was also allowed outside, though with camera crews following him? This was no controlled test, it was a publicity stunt.

[Twoyboy]

I'd like to point out these from 2006 and 2003 which contain not only the same story, but even the same round of press release photos.

I'm reasonably sure he's not even being tested. He just runs great press releases and lazy journalists pick them up. And it seems he's been quite active.

Dr Shah has been in charge of three similar investigations over the past ten years, and he has never allowed independent verification. In 2000, he was asking for funds to investigate a man he claimed got his energy from the sun, just like plants do. In 2003, he even approached NASA for funds to investigate Mr Jani, claiming astronauts might benefit from the research. This particular hospital, led by this particular doctor, keeps on making these claims without ever producing evidence or publishing research.

[Guardsman Bass]

I'd like to point out these from 2006 and 2003 which contain not only the same story, but even the same round of press release photos.

I'm reasonably sure he's not even being tested. He just runs great press releases and lazy journalists pick them up. And it seems he's been quite active.

Dr Shah has been in charge of three similar investigations over the past ten years, and he has never allowed independent verification. In 2000, he was asking for funds to investigate a man he claimed got his energy from the sun, just like plants do. In 2003, he even approached NASA for funds to investigate Mr Jani, claiming astronauts might benefit from the research. This particular hospital, led by this particular doctor, keeps on making these claims without ever producing evidence or publishing research.

I suspect it's probably a scheme they operate to make some money on the side, both from the occasional gullible government and gullible people willing to donate cash to new-age stuff.

That's too bad. I was hoping they'd catch the yogi in the act, but instead the whole hospital and doctor are in on it.