Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

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Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by bobalot »

Think the religious right goes overboard in the US? Under Poland’s blasphemy law, a Polish pop singer is facing two years in jail for interview comments about the Bible.

26-year-old Dorota Rabczewska, known as “Doda”, is a Polish pop star. Generally not much different from American pop stars — other than being a member of MENSA — Doda likes to speak her mind. That’s gotten her into some hot water this time around.

In a television interview last year, Doda explained that she found it far easier to believe in dinosaurs than the Bible; “it is hard to believe in something written by people who drank too much wine and smoked herbal cigarettes.”

Polish Catholics weren’t too pleased. Under Poland’s draconian blasphemy law, simply offending someone’s religious sensibilities can earn you hefty fines and even imprisonment.
Ryszard Nowak is chairman of the Committee for the Defence Against Sects. This group exists to “protect Christian values”. Says Nowak,
It is clear that Doda thinks that the Bible was written by drunkards and junkies. I believe that she committed a crime and offended the religious feelings of both Christians and Jews.

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In March of this year, Adam “Nergal” Darski — Doda’s fiancee, and lead for heavy metal band Behemoth — was charged for destroying a Bible during a stage performance two years ago, after calling the Catholic Church “the most murderous cult on the planet”.

The couple aren’t the first to be brought to court over offending Christians. In 2003, artist Dorota Nieznalska was convicted of “insulting religious feeling” and sentenced to six months of “restricted freedom” — that is, travel restrictions — and 20 hours/month of community service. Why?

In 2002, Nieznalska created an art installation called “Passion”. Part of the installation offended Christians:
League of Polish Families members attacked Nieznalska verbally and physically at the Gdansk gallery where her Passion installation was being exhibited last year. The work, an exploration of masculinity and suffering, shows a cross on which a photograph of a fragment of a naked male body, including the genitalia, has been placed. The League sued the artist. In July 2003, a court found Nieznalska guilty of “offending religious feelings.” It sentenced her to half a year of “restriction of freedom” (she was specifically banned from leaving the country) and ordered her to do community work and pay all trial expenses. When the judge read the sentence, League members packing the courtroom applauded ecstatically. The artist has been pursuing legal appeal to get the sentence overturned on free speech grounds.
How can citizens of European nations which maintain blasphemy laws — and there are more than a few — cry foul when Muslims are offended by a cartoon, when they themselves press charges and demand imprisonment over something as simple as a pop star making negative statements about their religion? There may be a difference in the degree of punishment, but isn’t the intent the same, to silence those who don’t agree?

Blasphemy laws are an offense to anyone who values liberty and intellectual freedom. They are a tool used by religious fundamentalists to silence nonbelievers. Fundamentalists of different religions do not use the laws to silence one another (such as Christians vs. Islamists); no, they are used solely against the secularist. Maybe it’s time for the secularists to start suing the religionists!
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I didn't realise that Poland was that overly religious.

I can't say I'm not surprised that very religious people would support censorship and draconian punishments for blasphemers. The very religious pretend they wont resort to censorship when they are politically insignificant, but given the opportunity...
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by wautd »

I heared the story before (actually, about her fiancee who destroyed a bible while giving a heavy metal concert). Either way it's disgusting something like this can still happen in some european countries.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Hillary »

Not greatly surprising - as has been commented here before, Poland is Europe's equivalent of the Deep South.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Einzige »

This would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. Actually, it ought to be an object lesson to Americans: no matter how much they may rape the vocabulary of freedom, individualism, and small government, the Religious Right wants nothing more than to impose its theocratic values on the rest of us by the force of the State.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Thanas »

Well, it is about what one has sadly come to expect from Poland.

But keep in mind that it has only been a democracy for about twenty years. If you look at any democracy within the first twenty years, you will find this to be rather normal. I mean, just look at the south of the USA.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Norade »

What are her chances of actually seeing jail and not just leaving Poland?
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Didn't the same thing happen to one of the members of those obscure wall of soundblack metal bands no one cares aboutRye subjects himselflistens to?
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by wautd »

General Schatten wrote:Didn't the same thing happen to one of the members of those obscure wall of soundblack metal bands no one cares aboutRye subjects himselflistens to?
Yes, who's lead singer is appearantly her fiancee according to link.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Flagg »

Not to fly off topic here but this situation is why I'm so leery of hate speech laws in America. Because I have no doubt that federally or on the state level this exact thing would happen.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Siege »

I doubt she'll be convicted, much less for the full two years... And if she is I'd expect European courts to slap this down right quick. Still, it's of course patently ridiculous to have this sort of law on the book in the first place. Oh no, you tore up a book and hurt some people's feelings! Let's waste society's valuable time and resources running some bullshit trial for that sort of thing! Or, you know, not. But yeah, it's Poland, so it's about par for the course really.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by General Zod »

Thanas wrote:Well, it is about what one has sadly come to expect from Poland.

But keep in mind that it has only been a democracy for about twenty years. If you look at any democracy within the first twenty years, you will find this to be rather normal. I mean, just look at the south of the USA.
How long had Ireland been a democracy until they enacted their anti-blasphemy law, again?
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Rahvin »

How do they even manage a law like this when the religious beliefs of almost every faith will offend practitioners of almost every other faith? I mean, I'm rather offended by a good bit of Christianity, starting with the whole "believe what I say or you're going to Hell" bit. How can you have a law like this when it's virtually impossible to not be in violation?
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Feil »

Because deep down, every religious elite knows that their faith is based on indefensible, unsound, poorly thought out bullshit, and collective treatment of religion in general as a sacred cow keeps everybody safe and secure in their comfortable little lives. The same phenomenon occurs in lots of countries - it's just usually not encoded into law.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by dragon »

Like the other person said this will get slapped down the first chance it gets by the EU corts, as Poland is part of the EU and agreed to the EU constitution.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

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Rahvin wrote:How do they even manage a law like this when the religious beliefs of almost every faith will offend practitioners of almost every other faith?
Because there basically is no other faith in Poland besides Catholicism. 88% of them are catholic. The rest are protestants, jews, JWs, atheists or any other kind of religious minority which does not matter due various reasons, none of which are very flattering (especially not in the case of the jews).
dragon wrote:Like the other person said this will get slapped down the first chance it gets by the EU corts, as Poland is part of the EU and agreed to the EU constitution.
Which can take up to 12-20 years if the polish courts refuse to immediately refer it to the European courts.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

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Because there basically is no other faith in Poland besides Catholicism. 88% of them are catholic. The rest are protestants, jews, JWs, atheists or any other kind of religious minority which does not matter due various reasons, none of which are very flattering (especially not in the case of the jews).
Didn't they try to kill all of them during the Holocaust? Er... according to wiki there were more Jews origionally in Poland than Germany, but they killed so many more that Germany has a larger number now. Are they as insanely anti-semetic as I've been lead to believe?
How long had Ireland been a democracy until they enacted their anti-blasphemy law, again?
16 years. The current edition is revised version of the requirement put up in 1937.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

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Samuel wrote:
Because there basically is no other faith in Poland besides Catholicism. 88% of them are catholic. The rest are protestants, jews, JWs, atheists or any other kind of religious minority which does not matter due various reasons, none of which are very flattering (especially not in the case of the jews).
Didn't they try to kill all of them during the Holocaust? Er... according to wiki there were more Jews origionally in Poland than Germany, but they killed so many more that Germany has a larger number now. Are they as insanely anti-semetic as I've been lead to believe?
Yes. Not only did they have their own version of the national boycott (before the Nazis took over), there was also widespread calls (even in Government newspapers) to give a solution to the "jewish problem". Really, if you put an article from a Nazi newspaper next to a polish one railing about the jews you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference.

They were very helpful with the holocaust, even going so far as to hand them over en masse to the SS or even doing the dirty work themselves. This happened in at least twenty-two towns.

I'd say that Poland was besides Germany and France (and the baltic states) certainly among the top three anti-semitic countries.

However, note that this does not mean that all polish were anti-semitic. Estimates have said that about 200.000 - 1 million poles may have helped jews to escape or saved some.

Anti-semitism is still very prevalent, though.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Sarevok »

Other than legal troubles will this cause her any serious problems ? I mean they are not going to arrest her for real are they ?
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

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Sarevok wrote:Other than legal troubles will this cause her any serious problems ? I mean they are not going to arrest her for real are they ?
They might. They have after all a proud tradition of arresting homosexuals for political protesting.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Thanas wrote:But keep in mind that it has only been a democracy for about twenty years. If you look at any democracy within the first twenty years, you will find this to be rather normal. I mean, just look at the south of the USA.
Hmm. That's actually a fascinating way to look at the South's demographic and development and cultural problems. It is the American Eastern Bloc, and only became something like a liberal democratic society following the Civil Rights Movement. Its still catching up as an infant democratic society, and suffers the same malformations.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

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Rahvin wrote:How do they even manage a law like this when the religious beliefs of almost every faith will offend practitioners of almost every other faith? I mean, I'm rather offended by a good bit of Christianity, starting with the whole "believe what I say or you're going to Hell" bit. How can you have a law like this when it's virtually impossible to not be in violation?
Oh, there's a simple solution to that: do you think they would've prosecuted her if she said the same thing about the Koran?

Yeah, me neither. Turns out only the law only protects Catholics in practice, and they can do whatever the fuck they want to other faiths or atheists.
Sarevok wrote:Other than legal troubles will this cause her any serious problems ? I mean they are not going to arrest her for real are they ?
If the other cases are any indicator, she won't be arrested and will get a suspended sentence.

Which is still pretty bad, though.
Thanas wrote:They might. They have after all a proud tradition of arresting homosexuals for political protesting.
Huh? I've never heard of a single case like this. We did have a problem with Kaczynski trying to deny permission to hold the Equality Parade in Warsaw when he was president of the city, but generally the gay parades and demonstrations don't get any problems from the authorities.

The main problem is the neo-fascist youth organization Młodzież Wszechpolska which makes it a point to hold their own rallies on the same days as the LGBT community. If the police doesn't separate the two groups, it gets ugly.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Kristoff »

Samuel wrote:Are they as insanely anti-Semitic as I've been lead to believe?
I would say - less than you've been lead to believe, more than Poles would like to admit.
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by SilverWingedSeraph »

As much as I'd love to jump on the hate parade with everyone, I spoke with a Polish acquaintance on the subject, basically asked "Dude, wtf is up with Poland, man, what the fuck?", and he informed me that the whole article is pretty much bullshit. Well, to be more accurate, while parts of it are true, it fails to bring up several points, most of which are raised by this guy in the comments section: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/c1je9/

It's still a really stupid fucking law, but that article is half-assed and only tells half the story. That said, I'm still never going to Poland. :lol:
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by PeZook »

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:As much as I'd love to jump on the hate parade with everyone, I spoke with a Polish acquaintance on the subject, basically asked "Dude, wtf is up with Poland, man, what the fuck?", and he informed me that the whole article is pretty much bullshit. Well, to be more accurate, while parts of it are true, it fails to bring up several points, most of which are raised by this guy in the comments section: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/c1je9/

It's still a really stupid fucking law, but that article is half-assed and only tells half the story. That said, I'm still never going to Poland. :lol:
Some of his points are just plain untrue: Doda is not being threatened by a civil lawsuit, she's actually under criminal prosecution. It's not clear if the case will go to court, but it's the Warsaw District Prosecutor's office who's running this thing, and they already filed the necessary documents.

His points about the Committee for the Defence Against Sects and the League of Polish Families are good, though - the article doesn't mention this, but the names do sound like they're government agencies, which they're not.
Kristoff wrote:I would say - less than you've been lead to believe, more than Poles would like to admit.
That's...extremely well said. If you talk to a Pole and mention Polish antisemitism, he/she will get all defensive, conveniently forgetting about things like Jedwabne (German lie!!!) or post-war pogroms (Communist lie!!!).
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Re: Polish pop star faces two years’ prison for blasphemy

Post by Thanas »

It really is a shame IMO considering the general situation of Poland. If there is a country in Eastern Europe that one would wish got it together and stop embarrassing itself, it would be Poland. It is not as if they are in a bad position from profiting from the EU - they are almost the only real gateway to Russia and Belarus. I really hope there is a change soon.

Pezook, how is the perception among young poles regarding their country? The ones I met so far were intensely nationalistic and tried very hard to prove to me their country's superiority to Germany. Is there a difference nowadays?
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