Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
LMSx
Jedi Knight
Posts: 880
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:23pm

Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by LMSx »

New York Times
Obama Is Said to Select Kagan as Justice
By PETER BAKER and JEFF ZELENY

WASHINGTON — President Obama will nominate Solicitor General Elena Kagan as the nation’s 112th justice, choosing his own chief advocate before the Supreme Court to join it in ruling on cases critical to his view of the country’s future, Democrats close to the White House said Sunday.

After a monthlong search, Mr. Obama informed Ms. Kagan and his advisers on Sunday of his choice to succeed the retiring Justice John Paul Stevens. He plans to announce the nomination at 10 a.m. Monday in the East Room of the White House with Ms. Kagan by his side, said the Democrats, who insisted on anonymity to discuss the decision before it was formally made public.

In settling on Ms. Kagan, the president chose a well-regarded 50-year-old lawyer who served as a staff member in all three branches of government and was the first woman to be dean of Harvard Law School. If confirmed, she would be the youngest member and the third woman on the current court, but the first justice in nearly four decades without any prior judicial experience.

That lack of time on the bench may both help and hurt her confirmation prospects, allowing critics to question whether she is truly qualified while denying them a lengthy judicial paper trail filled with ammunition for attacks. As solicitor general, Ms. Kagan has represented the government before the Supreme Court for the past year, but her own views are to a large extent a matter of supposition.

Perhaps as a result, some on both sides of the ideological aisle are suspicious of her. Liberals dislike her support for strong executive power and her outreach to conservatives while running the law school. Activists on the right have attacked her for briefly barring military recruiters from a campus facility because the ban on openly gay men and lesbians serving in the military violated the school’s anti-discrimination policy.

Replacing Justice Stevens with Ms. Kagan presumably would not alter the broad ideological balance on the court, but her relative youth means that she could have an influence on the court for decades to come, underscoring the stakes involved.

In making his second nomination in as many years, Mr. Obama was not looking for a liberal firebrand as much as a persuasive leader who could attract the swing vote of Justice Anthony M. Kennedy and counter what the president sees as the rightward direction of the court under Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. Particularly since the Citizens United decision invalidating on free speech grounds the restrictions on corporate spending in elections, Mr. Obama has publicly criticized the court, even during his State of the Union address with justices in the audience.

As he presses an ambitious agenda expanding the reach of government, Mr. Obama has come to worry that a conservative Supreme Court could become an obstacle down the road, aides said. It is conceivable that the Roberts court could eventually hear challenges to aspects of Mr. Obama’s health care program or to other policies like restrictions on carbon emissions and counterterrorism practices.

With all signs pointing to a Kagan nomination, critics have been pre-emptively attacking her in the days leading up to the president’s announcement. Paul Campos, a law professor at the University of Colorado, Boulder, writing on The Daily Beast, compared her to Harriet E. Miers, whose nomination by President George W. Bush collapsed amid an uprising among conservatives who considered her unqualified and not demonstrably committed to their judicial philosophy.

M. Edward Whelan III, president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington, wrote on National Review’s Web site that even Ms. Kagan’s nonjudicial experience was inadequate. “Kagan may well have less experience relevant to the work of being a justice than any entering justice in decades,” Mr. Whelan wrote.

Ms. Kagan defended her experience during confirmation hearings as solicitor general last year. “I bring up a lifetime of learning and study of the law, and particularly of the constitutional and administrative law issues that form the core of the court’s docket,” she testified. “I think I bring up some of the communications skills that has made me — I’m just going to say it — a famously excellent teacher.”

Ms. Kagan was one of Mr. Obama’s runners-up last year when he nominated Sonia Sotomayor to the court, and she was always considered the front-runner this year. The president also interviewed three other candidates, all federal appeals court judges: Merrick B. Garland of Washington, Diane P. Wood of Chicago and Sidney R. Thomas of Montana.

Ms. Kagan had several advantages from the beginning that made her the most obvious choice. For one, she works for Mr. Obama, who has been impressed with her intelligence and legal capacity, aides said, and she worked for Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. when he was a senator. For another, she is the youngest of the four finalists, meaning she would most likely have the longest tenure as a justice.

Ms. Kagan was also confirmed by the Senate just last year, albeit with 31 no votes, making it harder for Republicans who voted for her in 2009 to vote against her in 2010.

The president can also say he reached beyond the so-called “judicial monastery,” although picking a solicitor general and former Harvard law dean hardly reaches outside the Ivy League, East Coast legal elite. And her confirmation would allow Mr. Obama to build on his appointment of Justice Sotomayor by bringing the number of women on the court to its highest ever (three, with Justice Sotomayor and Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg).

Moreover, in his selection of finalists, Mr. Obama effectively framed the choice so that he could seemingly take the middle road by picking Ms. Kagan, who correctly or not was viewed as ideologically between Judge Wood on the left and Judge Garland in the center.

Judge Garland was widely seen as the most likely alternative to Ms. Kagan and the one most likely to win easy confirmation. Well respected on both sides of the aisle, he had a number of conservatives publicly calling him the best they could hope for from a Democratic president. Senator Orrin G. Hatch of Utah, a Republican member of the Judiciary Committee, privately made clear to the president that he considered Judge Garland a good choice, according to people briefed on their conversations.

But Mr. Obama ultimately opted to save Judge Garland for when he faces a more hostile Senate and needs a nominee with more Republican support. Democrats expect to lose seats in this fall’s election, so if another Supreme Court seat comes open next year and Mr. Obama has a substantially thinner margin in the Senate than he has today, Judge Garland would be an obvious choice.

As for Ms. Kagan, strategists on both sides anticipate a fight over her confirmation but not necessarily an all-out war. The White House hopes the Senate Judiciary Committee can hold hearings before July 4, but some Congressional aides were skeptical. Either way, Democrats want Ms. Kagan confirmed by the August recess so she can join the court for the start of its new term in October.

A New Yorker who grew up in Manhattan, Ms. Kagan earned degrees from Princeton, Oxford and Harvard Law School, worked briefly in private practice, clerked for Justice Thurgood Marshall, served as a Senate staff member and worked as a White House lawyer and domestic policy aide under President Bill Clinton. She was nominated for an appeals court judgeship in 1999, but the Senate never voted on her nomination.

She has been a trailblazer along the way, not only as the first woman to run Harvard Law School but also as the first woman to serve as solicitor general. Her inexperience as a judge makes her a rarity in modern times, but until the 1970s many Supreme Court justices came from outside the judiciary, including senators, governors, cabinet secretaries and even a former president.

If the Senate confirms Ms. Kagan, who is Jewish, the Supreme Court for the first time will have no Protestant members. In that case, the court would be composed of six justices who are Catholic and three who are Jewish. It also would mean that every member of the court had studied law at Harvard or Yale.

Like her former boss, Justice Marshall, who was the last solicitor general to go directly to the Supreme Court, Ms. Kagan may be forced to recuse herself during her early time on the bench because of her participation in a number of cases coming before the justices. Tom Goldstein, publisher of ScotusBlog, a Web site that follows the court, estimated that she would have to sit out on 13 to 15 matters. Mr. Whelan argued that it would be significantly more than that.
I dislike this selection, based primarily on the assessments of several legal scholars I've been following before who seem like otherwise reasonable individuals.

Paul Campos - Drew comparisons to Harriet Miers' lack of assured conservative views and a "blank slate" as far as her political opinions.
Glenn Greenwald* - Reiterates how sparse her record is, emphasizes how the most substantive point in her favor is blind trust in personal dealings with Washington elite, and points out her awful record when it came to hiring minority faculty at Harvard.
Dahlia Lithwick - Argues that it does long term damage to liberal court prospects by rewarding someone who keeps her head down and tries to avoid any sort of stance on issues.

The outcome is really irrelevant, even if Kagan is on the "right team", I think the process is awful. I would rather deal with someone who took a stand than one with an air of calculated uncertainty that appears to follow her.

*Salon.com just went down for maintenance as I write this, so it's possible the links are dead for a few hours.
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Oh look! Obama picked someone who was "Right Leaning" in the hopes of being 'bi-partisan' and getting Republican Support, who didn't see THAT Coming.

Thanks a lot Obama... If Kegan turns out to be anything other then as Liberals as who she is replacing, you have successfully pushed the Court even MORE to the right.
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by MKSheppard »

Eh. Expect the GOP to make a standard show of bitching and delay her appointment for a week or so; then quietly pass her.

You have a liberal replacing a liberal, so who gives a shit really? Just save your political capital for something more important.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Simon_Jester »

Remember the influence of the wingnuts. Looking at the fate of Republican candidates in some of the primary and pre-primary voting, the Republicans may wind up getting herded into a battle over the nomination even if it's stupid for them to waste political capital on it.

EDIT: To be honest, I'd like to see a nominee who's as far to the left as Samuel "Fascist Unary Executive" Alito is to the right, just to see what would happen. But that's me being tough-guy, probably...
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Wing Commander MAD
Jedi Knight
Posts: 665
Joined: 2005-05-22 10:10pm
Location: Western Pennsylvania

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

I can't really comment on Kegan, but she's still probably a better choice than whoever a President McCain (or President Palin shudder the thought) would have picked. Like most things with Obama, it's the lesser of the two evils. Who knows, maybe at some point Obama will surprise us, though I doubt it. While some inroads may be made in some areas, we liberals need to be realistic. The best we can hope for is to keep the country from sliding further to the right, with the occasional minor insignifcant victory, until the Greatest Generation and most of the Boomers are dead. Then maybe, just maybe, the country will liberalize.

If you can't tell I'm a pessimist.
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Flagg »

At least he picked someone who wasn't a judge.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Thanas »

Wing Commander MAD wrote:I can't really comment on Kegan, but she's still probably a better choice than whoever a President McCain (or President Palin shudder the thought) would have picked. Like most things with Obama, it's the lesser of the two evils. Who knows, maybe at some point Obama will surprise us, though I doubt it. While some inroads may be made in some areas, we liberals need to be realistic. The best we can hope for is to keep the country from sliding further to the right
Kagan is one more move to the right. Just reading her comments about the power and rights of the executive makes me want to compare her to Carl Schmitt, though without the brilliance. I really wish he had taken a chance and nominated Diane Wood.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Edi »

The one thing you can really count on is Obama consistently selling out any real liberal or progressive position every chance he gets because those two demographics are too stupid not to buck him. They will always go along with anything he does and even say so beforehand, so if course they will never be given anything.

The reason he did not nominate Diane Wood is because she has consistently opposed the Bush/Cheney torture, secrecy and supremacy of the executive branch policies that Obama has adopted wholesale and even extended.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
Wing Commander MAD
Jedi Knight
Posts: 665
Joined: 2005-05-22 10:10pm
Location: Western Pennsylvania

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

Thanas wrote:
Wing Commander MAD wrote:I can't really comment on Kegan, but she's still probably a better choice than whoever a President McCain (or President Palin shudder the thought) would have picked. Like most things with Obama, it's the lesser of the two evils. Who knows, maybe at some point Obama will surprise us, though I doubt it. While some inroads may be made in some areas, we liberals need to be realistic. The best we can hope for is to keep the country from sliding further to the right
Kagan is one more move to the right. Just reading her comments about the power and rights of the executive makes me want to compare her to Carl Schmitt, though without the brilliance. I really wish he had taken a chance and nominated Diane Wood.
I've gathered she is fairly right (or at least centrist) leaning from what I've read about Kagan here, and certainly one of the last people this board would've chosen. Still, its probably less of a move to the right than McCain would have made. Like I said, the lesser (hopefully) of the two evils that would have arisen as a result of the '08 election and the nomination of a new justice. Finally, Obama take a chance, that has about as much a chance of happening as Shep becoming the sterotypical anti-war hippie complete with denoucing everything nuclear :lol:. Obama is all about "compromise", read let the right dictate things, and centrism.
User avatar
The Kernel
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7438
Joined: 2003-09-17 02:31am
Location: Kweh?!

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by The Kernel »

Wait, are people honestly arguing that a woman who clerked for Thurgood Marshall and stated publicly that he was the greatest legal mind of the 20th Century is too right leaning? I seriously think people are confusing the positions she argued for as Solicitor General (where she is representing the legal interests of others) as her own.

It seems to me that's like arguing that the lawyer who defended Jeffrey Dahmer was pro-cannibalism.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Thanas »

The Kernel wrote:Wait, are people honestly arguing that a woman who clerked for Thurgood Marshall and stated publicly that he was the greatest legal mind of the 20th Century is too right leaning? I seriously think people are confusing the positions she argued for as Solicitor General (where she is representing the legal interests of others) as her own.
AFAIK she expressed similar opinion in her academic writings.

That said, saying someone is a great legal mind means squat. After all, I greatly admire Prof. Dershovitz for his legal mind and capacity to argue a case, but that does not mean I do agree with his political views at all.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
The Original Nex
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1593
Joined: 2004-10-18 03:01pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by The Original Nex »

I'm amused at the people jumping on the bandwagon hating Kagan. Greenwald raises legitimate points yes, but she's NOT "right-wing".

Just to get another POV from the trend of the thread so far:
The Progressive Case For Elena Kagan
Ian Millhiser

Predictably, the right reacted to Solicitor General Elena Kagan’s nomination to the Supreme Court by competing to see who can say the most unhinged thing about her. (So far, the RNC is blowing away the competition by attacking Kagan for her opposition to slavery.) Yet, while conservatives have engaged in characteristic hyperbole, several voices on the left have raised legitimate concerns that Kagan will not go far enough in challenging the Court’s right flank. In a lengthy piece, Glenn Greenwald lays out many of these left-ward concerns, noting that her career as a White House official, Harvard Law School Dean and as the United States’ top litigator has not led to her produce a great deal of paper explaining her views on key issues:
[G]iven that there are so many excellent candidates who have a long, clear commitment to a progressive judicial philosophy, why would Obama possibly select someone who — at best — is a huge question mark . . . ? I believe Kagan’s absolute silence over the past decade on the most intense Constitutional controversies speaks very poorly of her. Many progressives argued (and I certainly agree) that the Bush/Cheney governing template was not merely wrong, but a grave threat to our political system and the rule of law. It’s not hyperbole to say that it spawned a profound Constitutional crisis.
Glenn is right to raise this issue. Simply put, the Bush Administration’s views on executive power are so radical — so inconsistent with the fact that America is not ruled by a single, all-powerful monarch — that any person who holds them should be disqualified from any service on the federal bench. But Glenn is wrong to claim that Kagan was silent in the face of “radical theories of executive power the Bush administration invoked to commit grave crimes and other abuses.” To the contrary, Kagan spoke out in the clearest possible terms against an amendment offered by Senator Lindsay Graham (R-SC) which would have stripped detainees of any meaningful access to judicial process:
“To put this most pointedly,” the letter said, “were the Graham amendment to become law, a person suspected of being a member of al-Qaeda could be arrested, transferred to Guantanamo, detained indefinitely … subjected to inhumane treatment, tried before a military commission and sentenced to death without any express authorization from Congress and without review by any independent federal court. The American form of government was established precisely to prevent this kind of unreviewable exercise of power over the lives of individuals. ”

“When dictatorships have passed” similar laws, said the deans, “our government has rightly challenged such acts as fundamentally lawless. The same standard should apply to our own government.”
Glenn also notes an exchange between Senator Lindsay Graham and General Kagan (R-SC) regarding her views on indefinite detention. In that exchange, Kagan acknowledged that America may indefinitely detain a known terrorist, yet she was also very clear that such a detention could only occur after the detainee received “substantial due process” from an “independent judiciary” in a “transparent” process. In other words, Kagan embraces Justice Stevens’ view of detainee rights, as Stevens has consistently voted to resist Bush’s theory of detention-without-due-process.

A vaguely-related issue is Kagan’s view of the White House’s role within the Executive Branch. In her seminal article on “Presidential Administration,” General Kagan touts the Clinton White House’s supervision of executive branch agencies to ensure that those agencies achieved the “progressive goals” President Clinton was elected to achieve. There is a healthy debate in the progressive legal community regarding how aggressive a president should be in supervising the agencies, but it is also important to note what Kagan’s article is not about. Kagan’s article is about which part of the Executive Branch–the White House or the agencies–should take the lead in setting policy. It does not call for the kind of presidential seizure of power from the legislative and judicial branches that was so common under George W. Bush. « Less

Kagan is also likely to be a much-needed voice against Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito’s crusade to immunize wealthy corporations from accountability under the law. As an adviser to President Bill Clinton, Kagan spearheaded bipartisan legislation to prevent tobacco companies from marketing their products to children — only to watch the court’s conservatives apply an implausible reading of the law and hold tobacco companies immune from such regulation. So Kagan knows what it is like to see years of effort to protect the American people’s heath and safety destroyed by a Supreme Court more concerned with protecting corporations than with upholding the law. Kagan spent much of her career crafting laws intended to protect ordinary Americans–so she understands the terrible consequences of ignoring the law to suit a narrow interest group’s agenda.

A particularly fraught issue for General Kagan is her strong stance on gay rights. Kagan famously described the antigay “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy as “a moral injustice of the first order” while serving as dean of Harvard Law School, and she supported litigation intended to undermine this discriminatory policy. Yet as Solicitor General, Kagan has scrupulously complied with her legal duty to defend federal laws that she personally disagrees with, including anti-gay policies like DADT and DOMA. For progressives, her unwillingness to cast aside these bigoted and inexcusable policies may be a disapointment, but her conduct as Solicitor General also reflects her understanding that a public official must first be loyal to the law. It will also be a welcome contrast to her conservative colleagues who believe in one set of laws for the powerful and another, less-favorable set for everyone else.

Most importantly, Kagan’s life teaches her to understand that there are terrible consequences when a judge ignores laws intended to protect ordinary Americans. In praising her former boss and “hero,” civil rights icon and Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, Kagan spoke of Marshall’s understanding that “behind law there are stories” of people who depend on the law for health, safety, fairness and opportunity. She understands that it is profoundly cruel to rob ordinary Americans of the laws they depend on, and she has spent her career fighting to ensure that those laws will be there when they need them. At times this has led to bitter disappointment, as it did when she lost the inexcusible Citizens United case this year, or when she watched the Court sweep away her work on tobacco regulation by fiat. Yet General Kagan has not faltered in her dedication to this mission; and she will be an excellent Supreme Court justice.
link
User avatar
LMSx
Jedi Knight
Posts: 880
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:23pm

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by LMSx »

Elena Kagan on Don't Ask, Don't Tell
As Dahlia Lithwick and I have written before, conservatives will go after Kagan for being "gay friendly." As dean of Harvard, she gave spirited backing to the lawsuit brought by several law schools challenging the Solomon Amendment, Congress' effort to stop law schools from treating military recruiters differently from other prospective employers. (Some schools did not allow the military to interview students on campus because of the inequity of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell.") Kagan signed onto a court brief in the case, making a slightly different argument. She also spoke out, saying, "The military policy that we at the law school are overlooking is terribly wrong, terribly wrong in depriving gay men and lesbians of the opportunity to serve their country." But here, too, she's got protection: She was one of 40 law professors who signed that brief. In law school faculties at the time, people were falling over themselves to oppose the Solomon Amendment. Eight other universities filed briefs, along with 56 Columbia law professors and 44 Yale law professors. At some schools, it was out of the mainstream not to sign. Obama has already said it's time to start getting rid of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." The White House can support Kagan's stand on this issue without taking on a new political battle.
And, Elena Kagan's grim record for minority hiring
The first woman Dean of Harvard Law School had presided over an unprecedented expansion of the faculty -- growing it by almost a half. She had hired 32 tenured and tenure-track academic faculty members (non-clinical, non-practice). But when we sat down to review the actual record, we were frankly shocked. Not only were there shockingly few people of color, there were very few women. Where were the people of color? Where were the women? Of these 32 tenured and tenure-track academic hires, only one was a minority. Of these 32, only seven were women. All this in the 21st Century.
...
These are the facts that the White House does not try to defend because these facts are indefensible. For those who think that more women and minorities qualified to serve on the Harvard Law faculty were simply nonexistent, one need only look at Harvard’s primary rival--Yale Law School. There Dean Harold Koh led the law school during almost the same period (Dean Koh, from 2004 to 2009, and Dean Kagan, from 2003 to 2009). Dean Koh hired far fewer faculty members--just ten--but he still managed to hire nearly as many women (5 of 10 at 50 percent), and just as many minorities (1 of 10 at 10 percent) as Dean Kagan.
Link
So we've begun another round in the judicial confirmation game of "my trace DNA evidence is better than yours." A letter Kagan co-authored in 2005 condemning a court-stripping proposal for suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay will hearten the left. Her statement at her 2009 confirmation hearing that the president could detain enemy combatants without trial will make liberals very nervous. Kagan's refusal to find a right to same sex-marriage in the Constitution may provide some small comfort to conservatives. But the fact that she was strongly and vocally opposed to military recruitment at Harvard Law School until the courts forced her to rescind her policy suggests a willingness to fight for liberal causes. We will debate the ambiguous evidence of Kagan's views on executive power for weeks without knowing much of anything. (Here's her 2001 Harvard law-review article on a version of the unitary executive theory. You'll want to commit that to memory.)

It's not quite that Kagan offers something for everybody. It's more that she offers nothing, so there is something for everybody to wail about.

What nobody disputes about Kagan is that she is terrifically intelligent, an able manager, ambitious, and well-liked and that she was all that and a wheel of brie when it came to sorting out the problems she inherited as dean of Harvard Law School. She ran the most successful fundraising campaign in law-school history and attracted important right-wing thinkers to campus. Nobody (beyond Glenn Beck) has ever accused Kagan of being a liberal firebrand or a wild-eyed idealist. And while some of her supporters suggest that she may prove far more liberal than anyone expected, another Kagan fan told Nina Totenberg this past weekend that "Elena is the single most competitive and most inscrutable person I have ever known."
From that first quote, offering DADT as an argument in Kagan's favor sounds like setting an amusingly low bar for the Solicitor General to clear as far as "reassuring" liberals. And get this, she voted for Barack Obama! It's like....she was the only one you could find who had those views? If we're being told she's a liberal then there are more obvious, well respected candidates out there. If she's a "moderate" or conservative I'd at least prefer someone like Merrick Garland where it's pretty clear for everyone who Obama has chosen, and he can be held accountable for that. Instead it's just a giant foggy mirror.
User avatar
Anguirus
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3702
Joined: 2005-09-11 02:36pm
Contact:

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Anguirus »

The one thing you can really count on is Obama consistently selling out any real liberal or progressive position every chance he gets because those two demographics are too stupid not to buck him.
It's really more that the only other choice in this country is to vote for insane people who push through evil policies.
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."

"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
-Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
My blog, please check out and comment! http://decepticylon.blogspot.com
Cecelia5578
Jedi Knight
Posts: 636
Joined: 2006-08-08 09:29pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Cecelia5578 »

The Kernel wrote:Wait, are people honestly arguing that a woman who clerked for Thurgood Marshall and stated publicly that he was the greatest legal mind of the 20th Century is too right leaning? I seriously think people are confusing the positions she argued for as Solicitor General (where she is representing the legal interests of others) as her own.

It seems to me that's like arguing that the lawyer who defended Jeffrey Dahmer was pro-cannibalism.
Yes, because she appears to be less liberal than the justice (Republican appointed, BTW) whom she is replacing. Hence the overall political leaning of the court moves to the right.
Lurking everywhere since 1998
Cecelia5578
Jedi Knight
Posts: 636
Joined: 2006-08-08 09:29pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Cecelia5578 »

Thanas wrote:
Wing Commander MAD wrote:I can't really comment on Kegan, but she's still probably a better choice than whoever a President McCain (or President Palin shudder the thought) would have picked. Like most things with Obama, it's the lesser of the two evils. Who knows, maybe at some point Obama will surprise us, though I doubt it. While some inroads may be made in some areas, we liberals need to be realistic. The best we can hope for is to keep the country from sliding further to the right
Kagan is one more move to the right. Just reading her comments about the power and rights of the executive makes me want to compare her to Carl Schmitt, though without the brilliance. I really wish he had taken a chance and nominated Diane Wood.

I agree that Wood would have been a million times better, but given the fucked up nature of the American legal system, Obama needs to be nominating younger people to SCOTUS than Wood. That's one thing the GOP got right with Roberts and Alito-they were both relatively young when confirmed, and (alas) the Dems need to play by those rules.

Pamela Karlan wouldve been my choice for a non-judge nominee-she's the same age as Kagan, has a shitload longer papertrail, and actually has spent time in a courtroom.
Lurking everywhere since 1998
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

You know I swear to FSM that the right doesn't even bother anymore, they just wait to be told what to say by higher ups...

Watching Faux News today for a bit, they are already all over this in predictable fashion. In about 40min I heard people state:

"Another Radical Left Wing Liberal"
"A long History of Judicial Activism"
"No Regard for the constitution of the US"
"Obama is clearly choosing a Radical Liberal"

I mean really, REALLY???
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
User avatar
The Kernel
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7438
Joined: 2003-09-17 02:31am
Location: Kweh?!

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by The Kernel »

Cecelia5578 wrote: Yes, because she appears to be less liberal than the justice (Republican appointed, BTW) whom she is replacing. Hence the overall political leaning of the court moves to the right.
Stevens was a HELL of a lot more conservative when he was appointed to the bench. He really didn't become the head of the liberal arm of the court until a decade on the bench.
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

The Kernel wrote:
Cecelia5578 wrote: Yes, because she appears to be less liberal than the justice (Republican appointed, BTW) whom she is replacing. Hence the overall political leaning of the court moves to the right.
Stevens was a HELL of a lot more conservative when he was appointed to the bench. He really didn't become the head of the liberal arm of the court until a decade on the bench.

Yes and HOW many years did it take for him to go form Conservative to the mellow progressive of today? Who knows Maybe Alito will become more liberal in years to come, Maybe Roberts will! Im not holding my breath thogh....

The point is why appoint someone you "Hope" will be Liberal and why not post someone who IS Liberal?
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
Samuel
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4750
Joined: 2008-10-23 11:36am

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Samuel »

Aren't radical leftists, by definition, not liberals?
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Oh look! Obama picked someone who was "Right Leaning" in the hopes of being 'bi-partisan' and getting Republican Support, who didn't see THAT Coming.

Thanks a lot Obama... If Kegan turns out to be anything other then as Liberals as who she is replacing, you have successfully pushed the Court even MORE to the right.
I doubt its so much about getting Republican support as it is about getting Blue Dog support. Obama only needs one Republican to get a nomination past a filibuster, but he needs all the Blue Dogs. That's not his fault, as annoying as it may be.
Angurius wrote:
The one thing you can really count on is Obama consistently selling out any real liberal or progressive position every chance he gets because those two demographics are too stupid not to buck him.

It's really more that the only other choice in this country is to vote for insane people who push through evil policies.
Right. I don't think Obama's supporters are all stupid. I think that some of them recognize his flaws, look at the likely alternative, and are justifiably terrified.
Cecelia5578
Jedi Knight
Posts: 636
Joined: 2006-08-08 09:29pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Cecelia5578 »

The Kernel wrote:
Cecelia5578 wrote: Yes, because she appears to be less liberal than the justice (Republican appointed, BTW) whom she is replacing. Hence the overall political leaning of the court moves to the right.
Stevens was a HELL of a lot more conservative when he was appointed to the bench. He really didn't become the head of the liberal arm of the court until a decade on the bench.
Don't forget the court itself shifted to the right, leaving Stevens almost by default on the left.
Lurking everywhere since 1998
User avatar
The Kernel
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7438
Joined: 2003-09-17 02:31am
Location: Kweh?!

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by The Kernel »

Cecelia5578 wrote: Don't forget the court itself shifted to the right, leaving Stevens almost by default on the left.
That's not what I mean--Stevens when he was first appointed was much more conservative on issues like free speech and affirmative action then he is now.

I'm still not seeing any real evidence on Kagan being conservative aside from the ridiculous minority hiring bias argument which can easily be explained by her simply choosing the most qualified candidate on a case-by-case basis (shock!).
User avatar
Jeremy
Jedi Master
Posts: 1132
Joined: 2003-04-30 06:47pm
Location: Hyrule

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by Jeremy »

Samuel wrote:Aren't radical leftists, by definition, not liberals?
How so?
• Only the dead have seen the end of war.
• "The only really bright side to come out of all this has to be Dino-rides in Hell." ~ Ilya Muromets
User avatar
LMSx
Jedi Knight
Posts: 880
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:23pm

Re: Obama selects Elena Kagan for Supreme Court Justice

Post by LMSx »

I doubt its so much about getting Republican support as it is about getting Blue Dog support. Obama only needs one Republican to get a nomination past a filibuster, but he needs all the Blue Dogs. That's not his fault, as annoying as it may be.
I think it's well past time to admit that if the Democrats felt that the filibuster was constricting them from doing something they wanted to do, they'd be well on their way to fixing it right now. The top Democrats are comfortable with the filibuster as an easy pancaea to pressure from the left. If Obama would like to advance the argument that he can't even *nominate* his preferred candidate for a majority vote because of the filibuster, he needs to say what he, as President of the United States is doing to pressure Democrats in Congress to rectify the situation. If they're not fixing it, they're part of the problem.

The most direct answer is that they like this status quo.
Post Reply