Even the Russians are pussified these days. In the bad old days KGB would have sent bits and pieces of these guys to their families.
Russia has released Somali pirates captured during the dramatic rescue of a Russian oil tanker earlier this week.
The Russian defence ministry said the gang was freed because of "imperfections" in international law.
Russia initially said the 10 pirates would be taken to Moscow to face criminal charges over the hijacking.
The Moscow University vessel was seized on Wednesday in the Gulf of Aden, off Yemen, as it sailed for China, carrying crude oil worth $50m (£33m).
Russian forces boarded the ship a day later, freeing the 23 Russian crew who had locked themselves in a safe room after disabling their ship.
One pirate was killed during the gun battle that ensued.
But the pirates were released because of "an incomplete international legal basis" to keep them detained, Col Alexei Kuznetsov was quoted by Russia's Interfax news agency as saying.
The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, to which Russia is a signatory, gives sovereign nations the right to seize and prosecute pirates.
But some countries have been reluctant to do so because of concerns of what to do with the pirates after their jail terms are up.
Asked why Russia released the pirates, Col Kuznetsov told the Associated Press news agency: "Why should we feed some pirates?"
'Broken promises'
The Gulf of Aden is one of the world's busiest shipping routes, and the Russians, Europeans and Americans have all deployed navy forces in the region after a growing number of attacks by pirates on commercial vessels.
But suspected pirates are often released because they are not caught in the act, the BBC's East Africa correspondent Will Ross says.
The European Union's anti-piracy force said it had come across 50 groups of suspected pirates in the past couple of months. The young men, in small boats with weapons and ladders, were clearly not out on innocent fishing trips but in all cases their boats and equipments were destroyed and the men released after being disarmed, our correspondent reports.
There are more than 100 suspected pirates in custody, either awaiting, or already on trial in Kenya, which borders Somalia.
But the process is slow - lasting up to a year - and costly.
Kenya has said it wants to review agreements with the EU, the US, Britain, Canada, China and Denmark to prosecute pirates because some of the countries have failed to deliver on their promise of financial aid.
In the Seychelles, some 38 Somali men are awaiting trial in prison - making up 10% of the country's entire prison population.
Suspected pirates have also been taken to the US, France and the Netherlands, among others, for prosecution.
But unless an international solution is found, many more pirates will be released and the deterrent lost, our correspondent says.
Oh I whould say it was lost a long time ago. The world can have as many pirates as it is willing to sponsor with ransom payments.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
Stark wrote:So... the Russians are 'pussies' for not illegally detaining people without trial?
No, they're pussies for not bothering to try them. They were legally authorized to do so, if the article has its facts correct, but they were apparently concerned with the notion of what to do with these pirates after their prison terms were finished (assuming a conviction with prison time, of course). That sounds, to me at least, to be some pretty weak stuff.
73% of all statistics are made up, including this one.
Ok so they're pussies for capturing pirates and then deciding they're more trouble to them in prison. What a load of pussies! They should have executed them!
Stark wrote:Ok so they're pussies for capturing pirates and then deciding they're more trouble to them in prison. What a load of pussies! They should have executed them!
Except for your last point, you've stated the argument fairly well. What deterrent is there against piracy if the worst they can expect from being captured is being let free at the next port?
I admit that the deterrent effect is small in this case, since these pirates are rather desperate men in the first place. But I'll take whatever I can get. The Russians in this case (and whatever other countries are doing the same thing) are shirking their international responsibilities by saying that prosecuting criminals is more trouble than it's worth.
73% of all statistics are made up, including this one.
So welcome to what, two years ago, when people were already concerned about the difficulty of dealing with this kind of crime (outside arbitrary action like execution/long term detention/etc).
Frankly, I'm not really sure even execution would make much difference, unless it could be shown that a large proportion of the pirate population risks capture (which apparently they don't). Just why SHOULD the Russians waste their time incarcerating criminals that commit crimes outside Russia, if they don't affect Russia or Russians enough to be worth it?
Piracy off Somalia is increasingly looking like a lucrative career prospective. Tens of millions of dollar per haul and little chance of dying. Where do I sign up ?
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
I wonder just how long it'll be before some Westerners do decide that this piracy business is lucrative enough to move to Somalia, though.
Long long after I am rich and sitting in a gold mansion.
The system is broken. As long Somali pirates do less damage than the cost of a firefight with them they will keep bringing home millions. Its all about not crossing the certain threshold which bring military retaliation against you. Given how pussified navies have become that certain threshold is somewhere between blowing up tankers laden with 80000 tons of oil and decapitating everyone onboard on a large ocean liner.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
Cpl Kendall wrote:Just a side note; it isn't the navies decision to act or not act. It's the governments who run them that decide whether or not to do anything.
Sorry about that.You are indeed very much right.
That said I am curious about something. It is said that military intervention in the area will incur civilian deaths. Initially I thought this was the main obstacle to eliminating the pirate problem. I spoke in jest previously in this thread about western governments rather losing ships and people to pirates as long as it is cheaper than fighting them. But increasingly I believe it really is the case. Its the cost vs benefit accounting not humanitarian concern for the Somalians that is preventing effective action. After all when was the last time a nation like USA did not go to war because it would kill too many people in another country ? I am not saying American or any other western government is callous about killing civilians. But far too many past records show that whenever self interest is at the lives of people in other countries take relatively less importance.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
What about mandating armed bodyguards aboard cargo ships passing through the region?
Although the long-term solution does involve providing an alternative to piracy to these people.
"The surest sign that the world was not created by an omnipotent Being who loves us is that the Earth is not an infinite plane and it does not rain meat."
"Lo, how free the madman is! He can observe beyond mere reality, and cogitates untroubled by the bounds of relevance."
I'm amazed a law to allow crews to use less than lethal weapons in self defense hasn't been rammed through yet. Even if the crew had to pay out of pocket things like shockwave tasor systems, and stingball mines like those used to defend embassies have no offensive use but work fine for keeping people off of your ship. With the enshrined in law it becomes easier to build new ships with such systems in mind.
School requires more work than I remember it taking...
Norade wrote:I'm amazed a law to allow crews to use less than lethal weapons in self defense hasn't been rammed through yet. Even if the crew had to pay out of pocket things like shockwave tasor systems, and stingball mines like those used to defend embassies have no offensive use but work fine for keeping people off of your ship. With the enshrined in law it becomes easier to build new ships with such systems in mind.
To make effective use of such system it would require early detection of approaching pirates. Most successful acts of piracy happen when pirates climb aboard without the ship's crew noticing it. With small crews of modern ships it is difficult to keep constant watch on what's happening nearby the ship. If crew is lucky and spot the pirates before they get aboard they can call the nearest warship and ward pirates off with fire hoses, flare pistols and thrown objects.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
I'm puzzled as to why the Russian troops left any pirates alive, to begin with. Seems much more practical to kill them all during the assault, when you at least can say 'hey, we were freeing the ship and crew; the pirates could have chosen to surrender the ship at any time before the assault began.'
Rather like the storming of that theater that was taken over in Moscow a while back. The Russians probably saved themselves all kinds of trouble by seeing to it that the hostage-takers all died (and unlike the theater assault, if the crew was in a safe room aboard the ship, casualties among the hostages might have been possible to avoid, entirely).
If there's an up side to allowing the pirates to leave the ship alive, I'm not sure what it might be. Aside from sparing the lives of pirates for its own sake, which to me does not seem like a particularly desirable goal.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
The Somali pirates who were captured in an assault operation after hijacking a Russian tanker near the Gulf of Aden and then released by Russian military officials have not reached the coast and have apparently perished, a top-ranking source in Russia's Defense Ministry told journalists on Tuesday.
Russia's Moscow University tanker was hijacked last week near the Gulf of Aden. Ten pirates were captured and one was killed in the assault operation.
The captured pirates were initially to be sent to Moscow for prosecution, but Russian military officials then made the decision to release them, citing the absence of a legal base to carry out prosecution procedures against pirates.
The pirate's boat reportedly disappeared from radars an hour after they had been released by the Russian military.
The Russians still got it!
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
Yes, let us all cheer at somewhat illegal measures of questionable moral value.
Yeah, good riddance and all that, but how many of you would be screaming "war crime" if it turned out american units had abandoned captured Iraqis in the desert?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
