Elections in the UK

[Admiral Valdemar]

Actually, I hope we don't have a proper government even when the Queen's speech is due. I want to see how crazy people get at that point.

[Teebs]

As a Lib Dem activist who generally prefers Labour to the Conservatives I'd be furious at an alliance with Labour. It makes poor political sense and no moral sense. I'm uncomfortably ok with a coalition with the Conservatives and quite happy with a minority government, but a coalitioon with Labour means weak government (4 parties to get a majority of 1) and political suicide (allying yourself with the losers of the election).

[Edward Yee]

What's that fourth party? I wasn't aware of any except the BNP.

[atg]

What's that fourth party? I wasn't aware of any except the BNP.

Based off of the results on the BBC website a coalition of Labour, Lib-Dem, Scottish Nationalist, and Democtratic Unionist parties would have the numbers to form a government.

The particalities, however, of such a coalition I am unable to comment on.

[Hillary]

As a Lib Dem activist who generally prefers Labour to the Conservatives I'd be furious at an alliance with Labour. It makes poor political sense and no moral sense. I'm uncomfortably ok with a coalition with the Conservatives and quite happy with a minority government, but a coalitioon with Labour means weak government (4 parties to get a majority of 1) and political suicide (allying yourself with the losers of the election).

And exactly how stable would a Lib Dem/Conservative govt be? The coalition would fall apart just as quickly - the parties hate each other.

I see no real reason why a Labour/Lib Dem coalition is not feasible. It would give them 318 seats (SDLP's 3 are a given), with only a further 6 votes required to carry the commons, as Sinn Fein don't turn up.

Excluding the DUP (Tories in bowler hats), we have SNP (6), PC (3), Green (1), Alliance (1) and Independent (1). None of these parties has anything in common with the Tories and giving support to a Lab/Lib Dem coalition is probably their best option (the others being a Tory/Lib Dem coalition or another election which none of them can afford and which will probably result in a Tory overall majority).

Your arguments against a Labour/Lib Deb pact seem to come entirely from the made up stick with which the Tories and right wing press have been trying to beat the Lib Dems into submission with. "Weak government", "moral sense" and "allying...with the losers" are all lines straight out of a Murdoch editorial.

[Minischoles]

As a Lib Dem activist who generally prefers Labour to the Conservatives I'd be furious at an alliance with Labour. It makes poor political sense and no moral sense. I'm uncomfortably ok with a coalition with the Conservatives and quite happy with a minority government, but a coalitioon with Labour means weak government (4 parties to get a majority of 1) and political suicide (allying yourself with the losers of the election).

It makes more political sense to form a coalition with Labour than the Tories. Cameron might be well prepared to concede enough points to Clegg for them to form a government, but on both sides, the party are warning their leader about too many concessions. The Tory side are grumbling about any possible concessions, and on the Lib Dem side, the party doesn't want Clegg giving up too much just to form a government.

Whereas, at least with Labour, there is a chance the Lib Dems will be compatible on most of the major issues.

[Plekhanov]

What's that fourth party? I wasn't aware of any except the BNP.

UKIP (UK Independence Party an anti EU which is generally right wing) actually came 4th in the popular vote but under fptp won no seats.

Parties that won seats which could feasibly work with the Lib Dems & Labour include:

Alliance Party - 1 seat - non-sectarian Liberal party in Northern Ireland supported by the Liberal Democrats
Scottish National Party - 6 seats - A social democrat party a good deal of common cause with the Lib Dems away from the issue breaking the Union but may well demand a referendum on Scottish Independence as their price.
Plaid Cymru - 3 seat - A social democrat party a good deal of common cause with the Lib Dems away from the issue breaking the Union
Social Democratic & Labour Party - A social democrat Nationalist party in Northern Ireland which has always rejected violence
Greens - 1 seat - Pretty far to the left of the Lib Dems & often bitter rivals in local politics but share many concerns with Lib Dems

All that adds up to 326 seats which is the minimum required for a majority, but would be pretty much unworkable as a government.

The following parties have seats but I would hate to see in any coalition involving the Lib Dems
Democratic Unionist Party - 8 seats - far right protestant bigots
Sinn Fein - 5 seats - terrorist scum who don't turn up anyway

[Plekhanov]

It makes more political sense to form a coalition with Labour than the Tories. Cameron might be well prepared to concede enough points to Clegg for them to form a government, but on both sides, the party are warning their leader about too many concessions. The Tory side are grumbling about any possible concessions, and on the Lib Dem side, the party doesn't want Clegg giving up too much just to form a government.

Whereas, at least with Labour, there is a chance the Lib Dems will be compatible on most of the major issues.

The trouble is though that lots of people really want a change from Labour so much as I hate the Tories I'd like to see us try our best to work with them, trouble is that at the moment they seem to think only the Lib Dems should make meaningful concessions.

[xerex]

^^^ define "lots of people really want a change from Labour"

Tories got what 36% ?

labour still got 29% and LDs 23%.

[Crazedwraith]

I always find the Tory screeching about a lab/lib dem government having an unelected prime minister highly amusing. By those standards you could easily claim Cameron was just as much a 'unelected' Prime Minister as any of the others.

[DaveJB]

It's kind of amusing seeing Tory pundits screeching that Cameron should just tell the Lib-Dems to go fuck themselves and set up a minority Conservative government. You know, because that wouldn't drive the Lib-Dems right into Labour's arms, or anything!

[xerex]

It's kind of amusing seeing Tory pundits screeching that Cameron should just tell the Lib-Dems to go fuck themselves and set up a minority Conservative government. You know, because that wouldn't drive the Lib-Dems right into Labour's arms, or anything!

indeed they seem to be forgetting Brown as incumbent as the first crack at approaching the Queen. so Cameron isn't going to get a chance to set up anything if Labour and the LDs have some sort of understanding.

[Genii Lodus]

Brown's just given a statement announcing he is going to to ask the Queen to resign and recommend that she invites David Cameron to form the next government.

Mixed feelings about this.

[Teebs]

And exactly how stable would a Lib Dem/Conservative govt be? The coalition would fall apart just as quickly - the parties hate each other.

Assuming the major issues are worked out beforehand there is no reason why rival parties cannot work together - see almost every democratic country in the world.

I see no real reason why a Labour/Lib Dem coalition is not feasible. It would give them 318 seats (SDLP's 3 are a given), with only a further 6 votes required to carry the commons, as Sinn Fein don't turn up.

Excluding the DUP (Tories in bowler hats), we have SNP (6), PC (3), Green (1), Alliance (1) and Independent (1). None of these parties has anything in common with the Tories and giving support to a Lab/Lib Dem coalition is probably their best option (the others being a Tory/Lib Dem coalition or another election which none of them can afford and which will probably result in a Tory overall majority).

Your arguments against a Labour/Lib Deb pact seem to come entirely from the made up stick with which the Tories and right wing press have been trying to beat the Lib Dems into submission with. "Weak government", "moral sense" and "allying...with the losers" are all lines straight out of a Murdoch editorial.

Just because the Murdoch press argue something does not mean that it's wrong, perhaps you'd like to give some reasons why you disagree other than guilt by association.

Multi-party coalitions with tiny majorities are at the mercy of each of their members leading to ridiculous concessions and vulnerable to defection by any 1 MP or party all of which have diverging interests. The rest of the commons would essentially be the Tories and the DUP and I can't see any reason why they wouldn't be implacably opposed to the continuation of such a coalition's government. There is an obvious difference between a two party coalition commanding a majority of 60ish and one of all but two of the parties in Parliament commanding a majority of 3ish. Considering the massive deficit that we have, a government that has some consensus on the need to deal with it and enough leeway to take some rebellions is necessary.

Moral sense: Lib Dem policy was to give the party with the best mandate first shot. The Conservatives clearly have more of a mandate than Labour 7% greater share of the vote and a lot more seats, so sticking with stated policy seems pretty moral to me. Even if there had been no policy statements on the matter, I still think the Conservatives have a better moral case because of their substantially better mandate.

Allying with the losers: Except as a subordinate part of moral rights to form government, this is a point based around the Lib Dems' ability to do well in future elections. I think that allying with Labour would be more harmful to the Lib Dems' long term electoral prospects than the other options of allowing a minority government or forming a coalition with the Conservatives.

In the end my views on a Conservative-Lib Dem coalition are based on political reality and what I think would be best for the country and for the implementation of Lib Dem policy. I prefer Labour to the Tories, although it's a hard choice these days, but working with Labour is not realistic.

[Darth Nostril]

Brown's just given a statement announcing he is going to to ask the Queen to resign and recommend that she invites David Cameron to form the next government.

Mixed feelings about this.

I wonder what prompted this volte-face? Only yesterday Brown was stating that he would wait until September til standing down, until the transition period was safely over in his words.

Well Cameron is now on his way to the Palace, no word yet whether a coalition has been formed or if they're going to risk a minority government.

[Glimmervoid]

Harriet Harman has just become acting leader of the Labour Party.

Edit 1: Gorden Brown is on the news giving a speach. He looks happy

[Minischoles]

In the end my views on a Conservative-Lib Dem coalition are based on political reality and what I think would be best for the country and for the implementation of Lib Dem policy. I prefer Labour to the Tories, although it's a hard choice these days, but working with Labour is not realistic.

It's not a political reality though, that's the whole point. The leaders might be all for co-operating with each other, and are willing to make concessions, but within both parties, there have already been outright statements from both ordinary MPs and the leading councils of both side, that have stated completely opposing views on certain key issues, and they've warned the leaders not to concede on those (things like Electoral Reform, Spending cuts etc etc). Any coalition between the Tories and the Lib Dems is going to result in anger on both sides due to concessions, and both parties are going to cause tons of problems.

[Captain Seafort]

Edit 1: Gorden Brown is on the news giving a speach. He looks happy

Why the surprise? He's just dumped the most stressful job in the country in someone else's lap. I would be astonished if any defeated PM didn't feel at least some degree of relief.

[Glimmervoid]

Edit 1: Gorden Brown is on the news giving a speach. He looks happy

Why the surprise? He's just dumped the most stressful job in the country in someone else's lap. I would be astonished if any defeated PM didn't feel at least some degree of relief.

Its not so much that, its that Gordon Brown very seldom looks happy. I was being slighly ironic about that fact.

Edit: David Cameron is now PM.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Coalition it is.

[Captain Seafort]

Its not so much that, its that Gordon Brown very seldom looks happy. I was being slighly ironic about that fact.

Ah, fair enough.

Edit: David Cameron is now PM.

Question for anyone who knows: in between Brown quitting and Cameron being appointed, who was in charge?

[Admiral Valdemar]

We, the people. And for a brief moment, there was sanity.

[Captain Seafort]

We, the people. And for a brief moment, there was sanity.

Sixty million different ideas of how to do stuff. Oh joy. I was hoping we'd gone back to an absolute monarchy, albeit temporarily.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

Technically, the Queen is in charge all the time anyway.

Anyway, there are potentially ways to compromise on major issues that would make both sides happy. For example, on voting reform, the idea I've heard suggested is that the Tory-Lib Dem coalition would introduce a bill in Parliament for a referendum on whatever system is decided on, and then both parties can campaign for or against it as they like; the Lib Dems get their referendum and a fair shot at convincing the public, and the Tories (and probably Labour) get their fair shot at convincing everybody it's a bad idea.

[Captain Seafort]

Technically, the Queen is in charge all the time anyway.

Hence why I specified an absolute monarchy rather than just any old monarchy.

Anyway, there are potentially ways to compromise on major issues that would make both sides happy. For example, on voting reform, the idea I've heard suggested is that the Tory-Lib Dem coalition would introduce a bill in Parliament for a referendum on whatever system is decided on, and then both parties can campaign for or against it as they like; the Lib Dems get their referendum and a fair shot at convincing the public, and the Tories (and probably Labour) get their fair shot at convincing everybody it's a bad idea.

The version I heard is that the Tories and Lib Dems agreed to a referendum on AV. Whether or not they'll be able to get that through the Commons, let alone the Lords, is another matter.