The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Elfdart »

When former South African judge Richard Goldstone authored a preliminary report about the Gaza Massacre that accused both Israel and Hamas of committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, it was only a matter of time before he would get the same chamber pot dumped on his head that Jimmy Carter, Mary Robinson and Rajmohan Gandhi got dumped on theirs. Since Goldstone is not only Jewish, but right of center and a Zionist to boot, the bowl of crap dropped on him would be somewhat different from the one dropped on others who dare to point out the obvious. Instead of being called an anti-Semite, he was smeared as a "self-hating Jew". On top of that, pro-Israel hooligans (taking a page from the playbook of Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps) threatened to disrupt the Bar Mitzvah being held for Goldstone's grandson.

With that act of thuggery being a failure, IDF camp followers have tried another avenue, as spelled out by M.J. Rosenberg: As a judge in South Africa during the 1980s (during the Apartheid regime), Goldstone issued death sentences for convicted murderers, or did not overturn some of the sentences issued by other judges.
The Israelis will never tire of their obsession with Judge Richard Goldstone. Because he had the temerity to write a United Nations report calling Israel's actions in Gaza "war crimes," they are utterly unhinged by the man.

Their obsession is personal because they have no way to knock down the facts about the Gaza war (1400 Palestinians killed, including 320 kids) while only 13 Israelis were killed, four by friendly fire. Not only that, the Israelis leveled Gaza and have now kept it under blockade for a year and a half.

In other words, the Israeli government cannot win any argument about the Gaza war if they deal with the facts.

So they have decided to focus on Judge Goldstone's record as a South African judge during the apartheid regime. Here is the Israeli argument in a nutshell. It is from the Yedioth Achronoth "expose" on Goldstone that appeared on Thursday.

A special Yedioth Ahronoth investigation reveals Richard Goldstone's dark side as a judge during the Apartheid era in South Africa. It turns out, the man who authored the Goldstone Report criticizing the IDF's actions during Operation Cast Lead took an active part in the racist policies of one of the cruelest regimes of the 20th century.

Here is the best part of the article.

Israeli politicians and the Foreign Ministry on Wednesday welcomed the Yedioth Ahronoth investigation, which revealed Goldstone's dark past as a cruel judge in South Africa under the Apartheid regime.

A Foreign Ministry official referred to the investigation as "explosive PR material". Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman plans to instruct his office to send the information published in the newspaper to all of Israel's representatives in the world to be used in their PR activities.


That article appeared Thursday and on Friday Jeff Goldberg in the Atlantic, Jonathan Chait in the New Republic and Alan Dershowitz immediately wrote columns bashing the judge in just the terms specified. This is all in the first 24 hours after the the alleged directive to Israeli diplomats was mentioned.

By next week, there will be many more of these columns and blogposts, all parroting the line. Ed Koch is probably banging away on his ancient Remington typewriter as I write this. And we are bound to hear from Krauthammer, Peretz, Kristol, Jonah Goldberg and maybe Elliot Abram and John Bolton.

We'll see. And thanks to the wonders of the internets, I can keep updating this column to add new names and links.The March of the Penguins!

Note: none of the people who write with such fervor about long defunct South African apartheid ever write about the only apartheid they can do anything about: it's on the West Bank. Right now. And these guys tend to flip out if you even mention it.
As I pointed out in the comments section (I'm Marshall Lucky):
Almost every judge (including Robert Jackson) who passed judgment on the defendants at Nuremberg and Tokyo had previously enacted (or refused to overturn) death sentences and other forms of severe punishment. By the logic of Israel's fanboy apologists, the defendants in those war crimes investigations and trials were innocent and the atrocities never happened because the judges and prosecutors had sent others to the gallows or the firing squad.

Funny isn't it, how in their zeal to slime Richard Goldstone, Israel's groupies are engaging in Holocaust revisionism.
I should add that like Apartheid-era South Africa, the U.S. had an overtly racist justice system in the 1940s and 50s (when Robert Jackson was a Supreme Court justice) .
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by bobalot »

Is it me or is the Pro-Israel lobby overreaching with some of this shit?

Threatening to disrupt some guys grandson's Bar Mitzvah? Are they fucking unhinged? Sounds like the Israeli version of the teabaggers operating there.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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They've been overreaching for the last few years. Desmond Tutu is also being slimed by Israel's fluffer-in-chief, who is unfit to lick dogshit off Tutu's shoes* .

I think they realize their days are numbered. Survey after survey has shown that younger Jewish Americans are no more in the tank for Israel (and certainly not the Lebensraum Israelis) than any other minority groups are in the tank for the countries where their ancestors came from. This means the Lobby's main support comes from fundie Christians, another shrinking demographic group flailing about like Linda Blair in The Exorcist.


* Like all serial liars, Alan Dershowitz can be caught in yet another baldfaced lie in a matter of seconds by anyone with an internet connection.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Temujin »

What do you think the likely Israeli response to this will be? Are they likely to be amenable to reasonable reform in their behavior, or do you think they'll just dig in their heals and remain obstinate? From what I know, I'd say the latter, at least in the short term.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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Since Israel poured this particular smear job through its usual puke funnels in the US (as M.J. Rosenberg shows) without consequences, I would suspect more of this kind of thing in the future. Max Blumenthal has shown how much racist agitprop has been ginned up against Obama by the Israeli government and its lackeys in the US, so it's not like the racist Right has any sense of tact, let alone decency.

I think the Lebensraum crowd is scared shitless that as more and more upstanding citizens decide they can't hold their nose and support things like the attacks on Gaza, there will be campaigns against Israel like the ones against South Africa in the early 1980s, which brought Apartheid down in a decade. What they don't get is that smear jobs against people like Goldstone and Tutu make this more likely.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by MKSheppard »

The Israeli government will do another Gaza War whenever things rise to an unbearable level for the citizenry of Israel.

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Fortified Roof for School in Sderot, Israel.

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Armored Roof for Apartment Complex in Sderot.

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Fortified Bus Shelter in Sderot.

Right now, things are at a general low -- from 2005 (when Israel withdrew from Gaza) to the beginning of the Gaza war; about 7,000 rockets or mortar rounds fell in Sderot...alone.

Since the Gaza War; things have been pretty quiet -- compared to 2007 when 20 rockets hit Sderot in a single day. But as the Gaza War recedes in memory; Hamastan will try something again.

But it all depends on how far reaching Hamas can make their rockets reach -- as long as the rockets only impact southern Israel, the rest of Israel will make noises, but won't give a shit. If they do launch a sustained attack deeper into Israel -- around Tel Aviv for example; then the Israelis will suddenly give a shit.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Temujin »

MKSheppard wrote:Snip
Shit! :shock: I new they lived in a rather defensive manner, but that brings a whole new meaning to the term "bunker mentality".
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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Wouldn't it have been cheaper to outright build bunkers rather than concrete house umbrellas?
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Elfdart »

CJvR wrote:Wouldn't it have been cheaper to outright build bunkers rather than concrete house umbrellas?
I don't think so: It's just a frame of metal arches with concrete (which could have been formed into slabs beforehand and then hoisted into position with a crane). It has the added advantage of not forcing people from their homes to construct a new building with water and electricity.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Temujin »

Well those structures were probably built first.

I'm willing to bet that more current structures may be constructed in such a way that incorporates the protective elements into the design.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by MKSheppard »

Actually they are building bunkers.

Image

Though they're addons for existing buildings, rather than all new in one building complexes.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Temujin »

I was gonna say they look rather tacky, but then I realized that they're still under construction. :lol:

Still, they do blend with the original building a bit better, though I'd have to see the finished product before passing final judgement.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Vehrec »

Ahh, the problems of population pressure in a tiny fucking nation. Two groups who hate each other and can't stop making babies? This is the logical result.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by Elfdart »

Stephen Walt asks a great rhetorical question:
Smearing Richard Goldstone: a counterfactual

It's been a long time since I've offered a counter-factual for you to ponder, but one popped into my head as I was reading the latest set of all-too-predictable smears being directed at South African Judge Richard Goldstone, who directed the U.N. report documenting Israeli war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during the 2008-2009 Gaza offensive.

If you're coming in late, the basic story is that Israeli newspapers and government officials have been spreading the story that Goldstone (who is Jewish) condemned a number of black activists to death when he was a judge in apartheid-era South Africa. Never mind that 1) it was his job as a judge to uphold the (admittedly harsh) laws of his country, 2) he is widely acknowledged as having played a positive role in the transition to majority rule, 3) Israel was one of white South Africa's staunchest allies, which makes these pious denunciations of apartheid absurdly hypocritical, and 4) none of this tells you a darn thing about either the contents or the merits of the report on Gaza that bears his name. For able rebuttals of this smear campaign, see here and here.

So here's my counterfactual. Suppose Goldstone's U.N. report had exonerated Israel's conduct during the Gaza War, and placed most if not all of the blame on Hamas. Suppose further that a prominent Palestinian group had then delved into Goldstone's past and tried to discredit the report by disclosing the same information about him. Do you think Israeli officials and/or media pundits like Jonathan Chait, Jeffrey Goldberg, and Alan Dershowitz would have rushed to pile on Goldstone, as they have leapt to do over the past few days? Isn't it more likely that they would have rallied to his defense, and denounced those unscrupulous Palestinians for trying to confuse the issue? Do these guys really think they are fooling anyone?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by eyl »

Elfdart wrote:
CJvR wrote:Wouldn't it have been cheaper to outright build bunkers rather than concrete house umbrellas?
I don't think so: It's just a frame of metal arches with concrete (which could have been formed into slabs beforehand and then hoisted into position with a crane). It has the added advantage of not forcing people from their homes to construct a new building with water and electricity.
Under law, every house and apartment in Israel is required to have a hardened room (which can also be sealed in the case of a gas attack). Before that came into effect (mid-90s), most houses were built with a bomb shelter in the basement; there are also community shelters in case your house doesen't have one.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by eyl »

Elfdart wrote:Stephen Walt asks a great rhetorical question:I think we all know the answer to that one.
Yeah, probably.

The irritating thing is that at least parts of the report (I haven't read the whole thing, it's a pretty massive slog and I don't have the time at the moment) can be challenged on the merits - IIRC Israel actually published a preliminary response doing so, and IMO largely doing so well. But these personal attacks on Goldstone* just distract from the issue - no-one is bothering to address the substance or methods of the report itself anymore.

(Of course, challanging the report directly is probably futile to a large extent as far as public perception is concerned, but still)

*Though to turn your question around, would you agree with "his job was to uphold the (admittadly harsh) laws of his country" if he was Israeli and the defendents Palestinians?
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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*Though to turn your question around, would you agree with "his job was to uphold the (admittadly harsh) laws of his country" if he was Israeli and the defendents Palestinians?
Are Palestinians under the jurisdiction of the Israeli courts? Anyway, as long as he was only incharge of actual crimes (murder, arson, rape, carjacking, jaywalking) instead of political crimes (gathering without a permit, owning illegal literature, etc), there is nothing morally wrong with being a judge for South Africa, or other countries that were oppressive.
The irritating thing is that at least parts of the report (I haven't read the whole thing, it's a pretty massive slog and I don't have the time at the moment) can be challenged on the merits - IIRC Israel actually published a preliminary response doing so, and IMO largely doing so well.
Out of curiousity, how? Aren't war crimes simply technical violations of the law?
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by eyl »

Samuel wrote:Are Palestinians under the jurisdiction of the Israeli courts?
Of course. As the occupying power Israel is responsible for administering justice (though not necessarily under Israeli law, it gets complicated) - though that responsibility has been transferred to the Palestinian Authority in the areas it controls.
Out of curiousity, how? Aren't war crimes simply technical violations of the law?
Yes, but the problem is 1st did the incidents happen as described them and 2nd - under the laws of war the difference between a valid attack and a war crime can often depend on the subjective viewpoint of the commander on the ground. As a result, people after the fact could look at a specific incident and disagree whether or not it was a crime even if they agree on the basic facts, based on what they think the people involved should have done or should have known.

BTW, the preliminary report I mentioned above can be found here. I don't agree with all of it, and I find its tone strident at times, but I think it does demonstrate some of the problems with the report.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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eyl wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Stephen Walt asks a great rhetorical question:I think we all know the answer to that one.
Yeah, probably.

The irritating thing is that at least parts of the report (I haven't read the whole thing, it's a pretty massive slog and I don't have the time at the moment) can be challenged on the merits - IIRC Israel actually published a preliminary response doing so, and IMO largely doing so well. But these personal attacks on Goldstone* just distract from the issue - no-one is bothering to address the substance or methods of the report itself anymore.

(Of course, challanging the report directly is probably futile to a large extent as far as public perception is concerned, but still)
Isn't the fact that the Israeli government and its groupies in the US have given up on trying to rebut the charges in the Goldstone Report damning enough? I can see why. There's a YouTube video (beware: it's two hours long) with Goldstone presenting his case and Dore Gold doing his best with a lousy hand. When you have to drag out an ass-clown like Colonel Kemp (Col. Klink would have made a better witness) to make an utterly retarded comment about how the Gaza Massacre was the most restrained action ever taken by an armed force (as far as civilians are concerned), you're grasping for straws.

The problem for IDF camp followers is the number of IDF troops (who unlike Kemp, were actually there) who have been tattling on their superiors.
*Though to turn your question around, would you agree with "his job was to uphold the (admittadly harsh) laws of his country" if he was Israeli and the defendents Palestinians?
If it was a fair trial with due process, sure. Janet Reno went through the same thing as US Attorney General: she opposed the death penalty, but as head of the Justice Department she had an obligation to uphold the law and the verdicts handed down by the courts. She had no problem getting the needle for Timothy McVeigh.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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Elfdart wrote:Isn't the fact that the Israeli government and its groupies in the US have given up on trying to rebut the charges in the Goldstone Report damning enough?
I only skimmed through the report and this stood out at me:
To examine whether the attacks against the police were compatible with the principle of distinction between civilian and military objects and persons, the Mission analysed the institutional development of the Gaza police since Hamas took complete control of Gaza in July 2007 and merged the Gaza police with the “Executive Force” it had created after its election victory. The Mission finds that, while a great number of the Gaza policemen were recruited among Hamas supporters or members of Palestinian armed groups, the Gaza police were a civilian law-enforcement agency.
I love this. Even though HAMAS took over and merged the Gaza Police with HAMAS' own "Executive Force" paramilitary stormtroopers; the merged agency is still a Civilian Law Enforcement agency. :lol:
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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Proof please?
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by MKSheppard »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Proof please?
The Goldstone report itself says that HAMAS after it's election victory merged the Gaza Police with it's Executive Force style Stormtrooper Battalions -- and that despite a huge number of Gazan "policemen" being SA Mann, it's really a civilian police force, cross your fingers and hope to die!

If that excerpt is typical of the rest of the report itself...
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by eyl »

Elfdart wrote:Isn't the fact that the Israeli government and its groupies in the US have given up on trying to rebut the charges in the Goldstone Report damning enough? I can see why. There's a YouTube video (beware: it's two hours long) with Goldstone presenting his case and Dore Gold doing his best with a lousy hand. When you have to drag out an ass-clown like Colonel Kemp (Col. Klink would have made a better witness) to make an utterly retarded comment about how the Gaza Massacre was the most restrained action ever taken by an armed force (as far as civilians are concerned), you're grasping for straws.

The problem for IDF camp followers is the number of IDF troops (who unlike Kemp, were actually there) who have been tattling on their superiors.
The thing is - Israel often doesn't bother to try to rebut these reports on a factual basis - even when there are facts favorable to Israel (or at least which cast ambiguity on the "hostile" version of events) - or at least, those responses are given a very low profile, in favor of whining about how everyone is picking on us and making, as you say, really retarded arguments. Perhaps the most effective counterargument to the old anti-semetic canard about the Jew's control of the media is the fact that apparently almost everyone in charge of government or IDF PR (for lack of a better word) appears to be a moron.

Take for example the verdict in the ICJ against the security barrier. I myself, not a lawyer or any sort of professional in the field, managed to find what I consider to be a number of serious flaws in it. You could argue that I'm incorrect on them, but he Israeli government, OTOH, never bothered to give any sort of detailed response or analysis along those lines, AFAIK, instead going for rhetoric. There are a lot of other examples of that sort of thing occuring, which is why I was somewhat gratified that they made an at least limited public, detailed response to the Goldstone report (there was the fuller response to the UN later, but that had a much lower profile - I don't even know if it's publicly available)

As for the witnesses - while I have no doubt some of their testimony is genuine, I'd caution you against accepting their reports unquestioningly. In particular, ISTR a case a while back where two soldiers give detailed testimony of atrocities they'd witnessed in Gaza - it later turned out they hadn't even been in the Strip during OCL (I'll see if I can find the reference later).
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

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eyl wrote:The thing is - Israel often doesn't bother to try to rebut these reports on a factual basis - even when there are facts favorable to Israel (or at least which cast ambiguity on the "hostile" version of events) - or at least, those responses are given a very low profile, in favor of whining about how everyone is picking on us and making, as you say, really retarded arguments. Perhaps the most effective counterargument to the old anti-semetic canard about the Jew's control of the media is the fact that apparently almost everyone in charge of government or IDF PR (for lack of a better word) appears to be a moron.
The simplest explanation is that because almost all media in the US, as well as the government, are pro-Israel they don't really have to. The US still has a veto in the Security Council and no one else has any interest in actually doing anything about Gaza.
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Re: The Smearing of Richard Goldstone

Post by eyl »

Elfdart wrote:
eyl wrote:The thing is - Israel often doesn't bother to try to rebut these reports on a factual basis - even when there are facts favorable to Israel (or at least which cast ambiguity on the "hostile" version of events) - or at least, those responses are given a very low profile, in favor of whining about how everyone is picking on us and making, as you say, really retarded arguments. Perhaps the most effective counterargument to the old anti-semetic canard about the Jew's control of the media is the fact that apparently almost everyone in charge of government or IDF PR (for lack of a better word) appears to be a moron.
The simplest explanation is that because almost all media in the US, as well as the government, are pro-Israel they don't really have to. The US still has a veto in the Security Council and no one else has any interest in actually doing anything about Gaza.
Even assuming that's so, why are you assuming that Israel only cares about the US press/government?
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