The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Ritterin Sophia]

Go back and re-read the part of Armageddon??? where Stuart describes the effects of Sarin on the harpy hordes. I have no doubt that he could write the soul crushing horror that a concentration camp is. That he has refrained from doing so leads me to think that the horror is going to happen during the fight with Jesus and the Old Guard.

That's nothing compared to the description of what would happen to the survivors of a major nuclear attack through the eyes of German soldiers.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Hey Stuart - great job.Without violating any OPSEC what exactly is your defence background?Were you a civilian contractor all the way in the defence industry or did you spend time in the uniform? Is your background Army,Navy,Air Force, Marines or were you a part of the military bureaucracy?

From what I understand Stuart was a civie all the way through working both as a defense analyst on Naval ships and Missile Systems, IIRC.

[Hofner1962]

I also wonder if we could replace the joint. We do knee replacements now - though they are done joining to intact leg bones - not shattered ones. I'm just thinking though, between the angel's regeneration powers, if we couldn't fabricate a titanium joint replacement and get them flying again.

[Gil Hamilton]

I would agree that if Maion wants to fly again, chances are it is Lizard's Tail time. Amputate both wings and start fresh with the stumps. This would also give human doctors tremendous insight into the biochemical and physiological methods that Universe-2 beings go by to regenerate.

[Kuroji]

I would agree that if Maion wants to fly again, chances are it is Lizard's Tail time. Amputate both wings and start fresh with the stumps. This would also give human doctors tremendous insight into the biochemical and physiological methods that Universe-2 beings go by to regenerate.

Yes, but assuming this is even possible (and I won't put it past them for it to be), would it necessarily work on Earth? Heaven and Hell have got ambient energy due to their very nature that angels, demons and the like could possibly use to increase their power or regenerate things like that. Earth very well might not.

[nightwyrm]

I would agree that if Maion wants to fly again, chances are it is Lizard's Tail time. Amputate both wings and start fresh with the stumps. This would also give human doctors tremendous insight into the biochemical and physiological methods that Universe-2 beings go by to regenerate.

Yes, but assuming this is even possible (and I won't put it past them for it to be), would it necessarily work on Earth? Heaven and Hell have got ambient energy due to their very nature that angels, demons and the like could possibly use to increase their power or regenerate things like that. Earth very well might not.

They could always transfer her to a Heaven hospital after we conquered it. They might do that anyways to investigate if or how the two universes have differing properties on healing.

[Hofner1962]

To quote Stuart

Angelic and daemonic healing powers work as well on Earth as they do in Heaven and Hell.

[Erra]

Guys, I just asked this question and got a Word of Stuart answer not one page ago. Healing factors work the same for angels and daemons no matter what dimension they're in, which means its a biological/chemical thing as opposed to an "energy" thing.

And the Earth doctors aren't going to lop her wings off without some sort of perspective ensuring that they will grow back. Remember, people are prone to error because they are limited to their own perspective. To solve that, it would be pretty awesome if Memnon strutted in and chopped her wings off in a clean swipe so that they could grow back, and immediately have Lemuel and the assorted medical personal jump down his throat lol.

[nightwyrm]

Guys, I just asked this question and got a Word of Stuart answer not one page ago. Healing factors work the same for angels and daemons no matter what dimension they're in, which means its a biological/chemical thing as opposed to an "energy" thing.

And the Earth doctors aren't going to lop her wings off without some sort of perspective ensuring that they will grow back. Remember, people are prone to error because they are limited to their own perspective. To solve that, it would be pretty awesome if Memnon strutted in and chopped her wings off in a clean swipe so that they could grow back, and immediately have Lemuel and the assorted medical personal jump down his throat lol.

Most likely, doctors would attempt amputation first on angel patients who's wings are so badly mangled that they're unrecoverable before performing such a procedure on someone with unflyable, but otherwise ok, wings.

One thing I've always wondered though, how do winged humanoids put on clothes and armor? I assume there are slits along the back for the wings to poke through but are the large wings flexible enough to go throught the slits without requiring huge holes. Or do angels et al go with bareback since that seems to be more convienent.

[Kie99]

One thing I've always wondered though, how do winged humanoids put on clothes and armor? I assume there are slits along the back for the wings to poke through but are the large wings flexible enough to go throught the slits without requiring huge holes. Or do angels et al go with bareback since that seems to be more convienent.

Maybe clothing with buttons or buckles connecting the shoulders of the garment with the back of it.

[Scorpion]

Or do angels et al go with bareback since that seems to be more convienent.

That doesn't sound right...

[CaptainChewbacca]

Angelic armor is probably donned like a poncho and fastened on the sides, with hinges on the shoulders.

[Gil Hamilton]

Yes, but assuming this is even possible (and I won't put it past them for it to be), would it necessarily work on Earth? Heaven and Hell have got ambient energy due to their very nature that angels, demons and the like could possibly use to increase their power or regenerate things like that. Earth very well might not.

Stuart says they heal the same on Earth. However, they still need mass. I imagine to facilitate the healing process, they'd have to give her metric fucktons of high calorie food with large amounts of calcium suppliments. They may be able to heal rapidly, but that mass and the energy to grow it must be incredibly costly. It would probably take many months of large quantities of a tailored diet to regrow them. However, frankly, given their natural immortality, I imagine an angel can take the long view of things and deal with it, since compared to their lifespans, a few months is a blink of an eye.

[Pu-239]

Angelic armor is probably donned like a poncho and fastened on the sides, with hinges on the shoulders.

How would the air sacs work under the armor? They'd have to be rather large to have a non-negligible amount of buoyancy after all...

[xthetenth]

Angelic armor is probably donned like a poncho and fastened on the sides, with hinges on the shoulders.

How would the air sacs work under the armor? They'd have to be rather large to have a non-negligible amount of buoyancy after all...

Given their weight restrictions and the very low likelihood of being able to armor the wings, I'd think it might be a lot more likely that they'd only wear a breastplate with maybe a little bit of wrap and just strap it on from there with care taken not to strap over the sacs, maybe with a plate like in mirror armor over the most vital organs, rather than worrying about fully armoring the back when the wings are a huge target from behind, especially considering the range of motion the wings would likely need for unencumbered movement in addition to the sacs. Full plate armor is not a likely angelic invention, and they'd probably be a lot more conscious of weight savings than humans.

[Kuroji]

It's possible that any armor is more akin to a breastplate designed to protect the front than anything else, because it would have to be rather light as well.

And as far as healing, yeah, they may simply have much more effective methods of healing than normal people. As to whether that would go far enough to allow them to regrow limbs... debatable. But possible in theory, it would just take a good amount of time, probably.

[JBG]

Hey Stuart - great job.Without violating any OPSEC what exactly is your defence background?Were you a civilian contractor all the way in the defence industry or did you spend time in the uniform? Is your background Army,Navy,Air Force, Marines or were you a part of the military bureaucracy?

From what I understand Stuart was a civie all the way through working both as a defense analyst on Naval ships and Missile Systems, IIRC.

There is a brief (!) bio, though outdated now, on Navweaps, together with a number of serious articles by Stuart.

Jonathan

[GrayAnderson]

A question, if I might: Since it isn't easy to tell from the story (for obvious, timescale-related reasons), are angels and demons functionally immortal? Or do they just have really long lifespans? (I know this is partly academic given the timescales we're used to, but it does bear asking if they'd eventually age off and die or not) Also, how long did it take to breed such traits into the initial members of these races, or are members of the deity-race capable of genetic tinkering in some form (considering the resurrection machinery, I'm not ruling out something in this vein)?

Also, since I don't recall reading it for sure, I know there was a mention that the species split between angels, humans, and demons was several million years back but that the species still have odd "mixing" capabilities (witness the Nephilim). Though they're not quite capable of interbreeding, would it be theoretically possible to swap genes between the three species (or more, depending on whether some of the "experiments" and/or bred-out groups technically constitute the same species).

Finally...though I assume that they are of the same species, is there any substantial difference in appearance and/or genetics between the angelic castes? i.e. Were they headed for some level of divergence in the long run ("long run" here being borderline geologic in nature)

[EdBecerra]

This is great. We wind up overthrowing Judeo-Christian mythology... and replacing it with the Celestial Bureaucracy.

In short, we've created a de-centralized version of Hell, where no one is responsible because "I'm only following regulations and proceedure."

Ed.

[CaptainChewbacca]

A question, if I might: Since it isn't easy to tell from the story (for obvious, timescale-related reasons), are angels and demons functionally immortal? Or do they just have really long lifespans? (I know this is partly academic given the timescales we're used to, but it does bear asking if they'd eventually age off and die or not) Also, how long did it take to breed such traits into the initial members of these races, or are members of the deity-race capable of genetic tinkering in some form (considering the resurrection machinery, I'm not ruling out something in this vein)?

Since they're born, we can assume they age and die, but at VERY low rates. Abigor is older than all of recorded history, and Lucifer had the first human in a cage in his palace.

Finally...though I assume that they are of the same species, is there any substantial difference in appearance and/or genetics between the angelic castes? i.e. Were they headed for some level of divergence in the long run ("long run" here being borderline geologic in nature)

The higher orders of angels and demons are significantly larger, and are able to manifest stronger powers. Hell has demonic speciation, with Nagas, succubi, and traditional demons being unable to breed (we think), but we've seen no similar speciation in heaven.

The reason for that is likely that the demons are in a much more competitive environment (its been described like a massive Italian States) and so there's a lot more pressure to develop new strains of demon for military advantage, whereas in heaven the angels only scheme, and do not march against one another.

[Simon_Jester]

This is great. We wind up overthrowing Judeo-Christian mythology... and replacing it with the Celestial Bureaucracy.

In short, we've created a de-centralized version of Hell, where no one is responsible because "I'm only following regulations and proceedure."

Oh, the Celestial Bureaucracy was very centralized. You can have the buck stop somewhere in that kind of system.

[Saint_007]

So Angelic armor will be basic frontal armor? Meaning that in their usual flying positions, they'll only be armored facing the ground?

Man, am I glad we invented "Look down/shoot down" capability. And yes, I know that this was meant to hit things practically hugging the ground around the horizon (meaning that it would basically be useless here, given that Heaven is as flat as a plate despite its non-Euclidean geometry). Still, an F-22 or even a MiG-29 can fly well over what an Angel can. Death from Above; time for the Angels to taste karma in serious doses.

Which brings me to another point. The HEA will use bombers with fighter escort to pound strategic targets to dust, meaning any Angels trying to take out a B-52 before it wastes an Angelic host below will be eating AIM-120's as a last meal. But what about helicopters and A-10 Warthogs? We saw the A-10 in a clean-up role at the Battle of the Plegethon, meaning by the time these things started rolling the Harpy host was literally annihilated. I can imagine the humans won't let their CAS until the Angels either stop flying or have been cleared from the skies. So what about attack helicopters? Would they even be used at all, or would they be used to counter the Human Hosts of Heaven?

[Ruadhan2300]

were I a general or commander in charge of the invasion of heaven.....and I'm definately not.
I'd not want to have subsonic aircraft anywhere near angels. especially thinking of those aircraft which only survived because they outran the sonic weapons.
high altitude aircraft might be good for this, but generally supersonic all the way. that or a lot of light AA on the ground.
I think the A-10 is a borderline, its fast enough to get in and out of a combat zone full of distracted angels, but probably not fast enough to avoid the inevitable pot-shot from said angels.
I'd seriously hesitate about deploying helicopters. the manueverability might keep them alive, but when push comes to shove...if there's one class of aircraft the angels could have been -designed- to fight, its a helicopter.

[xthetenth]

So Angelic armor will be basic frontal armor? Meaning that in their usual flying positions, they'll only be armored facing the ground?

And lightweight enough to allow them to still fly, so I rather strongly doubt that the breastplate will do much of anything about high velocity projectiles, even if their metallurgy is better than our medieval metallurgy as I suspect it is (at least in the strength per weight category, they'd put more focus into that).

[Manthor]

Given how seemingly the entirety of the world's militaries and uniformed services have upgunned to anti-rifle calibres,or basically everything in excess of .50 cal,within the SW universe are the classifications still the same since everyone has upgraded or is 7.62mm still counted as a full power rifle cartridge?