Post-human species

[Norade]

In my short time of being an active member here, I have said some stupid things, argued them, and then at least had the decency to concede after I'd stepped away and cooled off enough to see how stupid I was making myself look. This guy looks like he's going for the title of 'Worst Intelligent Designer Since God' or some such.

[avianmosquito]

Add constant medical care (you understate the problem - they would suffer from cardiac arrests in childhood) and you have yourself a very expensive army just for fighting some primitives with pointy sticks.

Actually, the original IU idea was far more grandious. The simini were fighting an enemy called the ferroningen, slightly larger humanoids that had them physically outclassed and a 100-1 numbers advantage. Conventional warfare would be difficult.

Bio-weapons? Plausible, but not too effective in practice. Ferroningen were a medieval species, they were exposed to dirt, grime and just general filth all day, so they had strong immune systems. Bio-weapons achieved maybe 1/4th of the mortality rate they got with humans.
Chemical weapons? Wind. There's a lot of it on their planet. It's unpredictable and changes direction frequently. This limits chemical weapons to the tactical level.
Thermal weapons? After evolving on a planet where one side always faces the sun, ferroningen were quite tolerant to high temperatures.
Radiation? Hopeless for the same reason.

So what's left? Pretty much the only thing left to do is blow holes in them. That works pretty universally.

So they tried it. They bombed the fuck out of their planet, the ferroningen hid in caves, then came out, laughing, mooning, and presenting their arms to the simini.

The simini started landing, but when they did they realised something: the sun nevet quits on this fucking planet! It's 60 degrees in the shade! How are you supposed to work in these conditions?

Thus, they unded up tired, dehydrated, and suffering from heat stroke before they could have an impact.

To make matters worse, ferroningen would attack their bases... from below. They would tunnel under, and come out swinging at soldiers too fatigued to fight, then steal all if their equipment and expiriment with it until they figured out how to use it. Soon, there were ferroningen Spreading from planet to planet, establishing bases wherever the navigation systems could take them, which were all-you guessed it-simini colonies. The problem was no longer contained.

They started exploring options, and, smelling a chance to soak up more goverment funding, three of the noble houses began competing for results, kokome were the result of the Zkeo house, which won the competition for their supposed ability to "wade through a sea of humans or ferroningen." However, although they were accepted into usage in defendimg simini colonies, providing manpower to their logistical forces, and eradicating ferroningen bases on simini worlds, they were useless on the ferroningen homeworld due to shaky logistics and intolerable heat.

Other research came up with everything from kakarian hounds to better AC units and moisture condensers.

In the end, maybe the kokome origin story will increase the credibility. Maybe I should write it out in a short story? Opinion?

[Norade]

Add constant medical care (you understate the problem - they would suffer from cardiac arrests in childhood) and you have yourself a very expensive army just for fighting some primitives with pointy sticks.

Actually, the original IU idea was far more grandious. The simini were fighting an enemy called the ferroningen, slightly larger humanoids that had them physically outclassed and a 100-1 numbers advantage. Conventional warfare would be difficult.

Bio-weapons? Plausible, but not too effective in practice. Ferroningen were a medieval species, they were exposed to dirt, grime and just general filth all day, so they had strong immune systems. Bio-weapons achieved maybe 1/4th of the mortality rate they got with humans.
Chemical weapons? Wind. There's a lot of it on their planet. It's unpredictable and changes direction frequently. This limits chemical weapons to the tactical level.
Thermal weapons? After evolving on a planet where one side always faces the sun, ferroningen were quite tolerant to high temperatures.
Radiation? Hopeless for the same reason.

So what's left? Pretty much the only thing left to do is blow holes in them. That works pretty universally.

So they tried it. They bombed the fuck out of their planet, the ferroningen hid in caves, then came out, laughing, mooning, and presenting their arms to the simini.

The simini started landing, but when they did they realised something: the sun nevet quits on this fucking planet! It's 60 degrees in the shade! How are you supposed to work in these conditions?

Thus, they unded up tired, dehydrated, and suffering from heat stroke before they could have an impact.

To make matters worse, ferroningen would attack their bases... from below. They would tunnel under, and come out swinging at soldiers too fatigued to fight, then steal all if their equipment and expiriment with it until they figured out how to use it. Soon, there were ferroningen Spreading from planet to planet, establishing bases wherever the navigation systems could take them, which were all-you guessed it-simini colonies. The problem was no longer contained.

They started exploring options, and, smelling a chance to soak up more goverment funding, three of the noble houses began competing for results, kokome were the result of the Zkeo house, which won the competition for their supposed ability to "wade through a sea of humans or ferroningen." However, although they were accepted into usage in defendimg simini colonies, providing manpower to their logistical forces, and eradicating ferroningen bases on simini worlds, they were useless on the ferroningen homeworld due to shaky logistics and intolerable heat.

Other research came up with everything from kakarian hounds to better AC units and moisture condensers.

In the end, maybe the kokome origin story will increase the credibility. Maybe I should write it out in a short story? Opinion?

Wow, your super race was to dumb to just leave the primitives alone until they could develop some air conditioned vehicles to kill their more primitive foes with? Too kind not to build bases on things that the enemy couldn't tunnel through? To, I don't even know, to send ROV's with guns into the caves to kill the enemy while sitting in their floating command ship high above? You race and your entire idea is fucking retarded and your response to criticism involves back peddling and ass pulling a reason for these things to have happened.

[Serafina]

Actually, the original IU idea was far more grandious. The simini were fighting an enemy called the ferroningen, slightly larger humanoids that had them physically outclassed and a 100-1 numbers advantage. Conventional warfare would be difficult.

Being physically outclassed doesn't matter that much in modern warfare.

Ferroningen were a medieval species

But hey, it's not even modern warfare.
So what's the bloody trouble? Just shoot those guys, they can't really fight back at you since their technology sucks.

hey were exposed to dirt, grime and just general filth all day, so they had strong immune systems.

That...doesn't work.
Medieval humans lived under the same conditions. They died of disease all the fucking time.
If anything, bio-weapons should be MORE effective, since they have no concept of hygiene and no modern medicine.

And again - if you are fighting another species, bio-weapons become much more viable than against your own species.
Simply because you don't have to worry about hitting your own populace.

Thermal weapons? After evolving on a planet where one side always faces the sun, ferroningen were quite tolerant to high temperatures.

So they are resistant to thousands of degrees C° ? Just because their planet is about as hot as the Sahara?

So they tried it. They bombed the fuck out of their planet, the ferroningen hid in caves, then came out, laughing, mooning, and presenting their arms to the simini.

So what?
First, it's shit-easy to just drop huge rocks from orbit,easily devastating every cave.
Second - what did these cavemen live off? Their surroundings were burned to ashes, they are going to starve very soon.

And even if you ignore that - they are still a medieval army, you can kick their ass no matter how strong or numerous they are.

Besides, i would like to now how a medieval planet of giants even gets a 100:1 numerical advantage. Last i checked, we know have many times the population we had a couple of hundred years back.

The simini started landing, but when they did they realised something: the sun nevet quits on this fucking planet! It's 60 degrees in the shade! How are you supposed to work in these conditions?

Then why did they want to have that planet in the first place?
It's literary like fighting a war over a desert because you want to build farms and houses there - it'S bloody stupid.
But then again, stupidity seems to be their main trait.

Soon, there were ferroningen Spreading from planet to planet, establishing bases wherever the navigation systems could take them, which were all-you guessed it-simini colonies. The problem was no longer contained.

Wait, they figured out how to fly spaceships?
Get lost - that's about as likely as your or me figuring out how to fly a plane without instructions.

And again, it demonstrates outstanding stupidity - your species seems to be incapable of using something as simple as passwords for their spaceships.

In the end, maybe the kokome origin story will increase the credibility. Maybe I should write it out in a short story? Opinion?

No, it doesn't get any better.
The whole thing sounds like some of the stories my sister drew when she was 12 - except that she did not try to explain it with science and/or logic and just blamed it on magic.
Which makes more sense than your ridiculous wanking.

[Starglider]

So they tried it. They bombed the fuck out of their planet, the ferroningen hid in caves, then came out, laughing, mooning, and presenting their arms to the simini.

What? What? A medieval society had x100 the population of an industrial one capable of building starships? And this entire population, impossible to sustain with medieval agriculture, managed to squeeze into some caves? And had a magical immunity to bioweapons? And their crops had a magical immunity to bioweapons?

It's 60 degrees in the shade! How are you supposed to work in these conditions?

Drop a big asteroid into the oceans. Months of cloud cover, most of the plants die, all opposition starve, and it's a fresh cool atmosphere for your mop up teams.

In the end, maybe the kokome origin story will increase the credibility. Maybe I should write it out in a short story? Opinion?

Maybe you should start again explaining what you are actually trying to achieve in dramatic terms and restricting yourself to physically and logically plausible developments.

[avianmosquito]

You should of seen what this concept was like a year ago... Trust me, this is mild.

You were making these as incredibly challenging ruthless opponents for your plucky protgaonists, not as wankity-wank wish fulfillment mary sue hero characters right? Right?

Not really either. I don't have heroes, I have soldiers, and they sure as hell aren't plucky.

In the end, the rebellion was 500 years before the main timeline, everything has changed, and the politicians who originally kept tje rebel factions allied have all died, leaving behind sucessors who seem to have their skulls surgically attached to their colons and a cumpulsive need to frequently use their toes to feel the back of their throats.

[Norade]

You should of seen what this concept was like a year ago... Trust me, this is mild.

You were making these as incredibly challenging ruthless opponents for your plucky protgaonists, not as wankity-wank wish fulfillment mary sue hero characters right? Right?

Not really either. I don't have heroes, I have soldiers, and they sure as hell aren't plucky.

In the end, the rebellion was 500 years before the main timeline, everything has changed, and the politicians who originally kept tje rebel factions allied have all died, leaving behind sucessors who seem to have their skulls surgically attached to their colons and a cumpulsive need to frequently use their toes to feel the back of their throats.

Things in your universe get dumber than what you've already posted?!?

[Jeremy]

with a sufficient logistics system kokome are worth the extra expense

but you said....

As far as cost, we're looking at long-term cost. Not only that, but the simini idea of long-term, which is hundreds of years. Over that kind of time, the extremely large initial R&D cost is more than made up for by lower unit cost, lower maitanance, and cheaper fuel.

Are you making this up as you go?

simini haven't known famine since a thousand years before they created kokome.

Did the Simini eat as much as the Kokome? If the Simini eat cows for brunch then you have a point.

Yes, but kokome were created to fight the enemies of the simini. Can an army that relies on 15th century technology and stolen enemy equipment really do that? I don't think so, so why would this be taken into consideration?

Why not use planes? If they hide in caves, we can kill them with pressure difference.

And why are these Troglodite Renaissance Age Gorn an enemy of the Simini?

[avianmosquito]

So they tried it. They bombed the fuck out of their planet, the ferroningen hid in caves, then came out, laughing, mooning, and presenting their arms to the simini.

What? What? A medieval society had x100 the population of an industrial one capable of building starships? And this entire population, impossible to sustain with medieval agriculture, managed to squeeze into some caves? And had a magical immunity to bioweapons? And their crops had a magical immunity to bioweapons?

What crops? Ferroningen are reptiles, and, more importantly, carnivores. They don't need much food because they are cold-blooded, and they cannot digest plants anyway.

It's 60 degrees in the shade! How are you supposed to work in these conditions?

Drop a big asteroid into the oceans. Months of cloud cover, most of the plants die, all opposition starve, and it's a fresh cool atmosphere for your mop up teams.

What oceans? They don't have any oceans. All they have is 1000km of marshland around the equator. (Which would make for excellent land if you're a rice-farmer, and I'm sure the ferroningen would of gladly given it to the simini had they asked, because it's not like the ferroningen have any use for it. But this point is moot, because they didn't ask, they just tried to take, and that shit doesn't fly when you aren't scary, especially when your would-be victim is a reptile 1 1/2 times your height.)

In the end, maybe the kokome origin story will increase the credibility. Maybe I should write it out in a short story? Opinion?

Maybe you should start again explaining what you are actually trying to achieve in dramatic terms and restricting yourself to physically and logically plausible developments.[/quote]

This? This is just backstory to the FUBAR political situation that's causing half the wars covering 100 years of the series.

[Norade]

So they tried it. They bombed the fuck out of their planet, the ferroningen hid in caves, then came out, laughing, mooning, and presenting their arms to the simini.

What? What? A medieval society had x100 the population of an industrial one capable of building starships? And this entire population, impossible to sustain with medieval agriculture, managed to squeeze into some caves? And had a magical immunity to bioweapons? And their crops had a magical immunity to bioweapons?

What crops? Ferroningen are reptiles, and, more importantly, carnivores. They don't need much food because they are cold-blooded, and they cannot digest plants anyway.

It's 60 degrees in the shade! How are you supposed to work in these conditions?

Drop a big asteroid into the oceans. Months of cloud cover, most of the plants die, all opposition starve, and it's a fresh cool atmosphere for your mop up teams.

What oceans? They don't have any oceans. All they have is 1000km of marshland around the equator. (Which would make for excellent land if you're a rice-farmer, and I'm sure the ferroningen would of gladly given it to the simini had they asked, because it's not like the ferroningen have any use for it. But this point is moot, because they didn't ask, they just tried to take, and that shit doesn't fly when you aren't scary, especially when your would-be victim is a reptile 1 1/2 times your height.)

In the end, maybe the kokome origin story will increase the credibility. Maybe I should write it out in a short story? Opinion?

Maybe you should start again explaining what you are actually trying to achieve in dramatic terms and restricting yourself to physically and logically plausible developments.

This? This is just backstory to the FUBAR political situation that's causing half the wars covering 100 years of the series.[/quote]


Then plow and asteroid into the desert and into the areas where the caves are! The dust kicked up will at least make them slower when they come out to fight and if they don't come out you get to place huge bombs at the cave mouths and kill them when they try to emerge. That or kill the prey that the lizards eat.

[Jeremy]

What crops? Ferroningen are reptiles, and, more importantly, carnivores. They don't need much food because they are cold-blooded, and they cannot digest plants anyway.

The crops they use to feed their livestock! Grass, corn, big plant that resembles meat.

This? This is just backstory to the FUBAR political situation that's causing half the wars covering 100 years of the series.

How many consistent pages of story have you written? Do not include teasers that jump ahead a few chapters.

[avianmosquito]

with a sufficient logistics system kokome are worth the extra expense

but you said....

As far as cost, we're looking at long-term cost. Not only that, but the simini idea of long-term, which is hundreds of years. Over that kind of time, the extremely large initial R&D cost is more than made up for by lower unit cost, lower maitanance, and cheaper fuel.

Are you making this up as you go?

No, but we're comparing kokome with wings to kokome with jetpacks. That's just not as cost-effective, and simini are not totally devoid of common sense, they need some reason to justify the enourmous amount of goverment funding they soak up, or they wouldn't be getting it.

simini haven't known famine since a thousand years before they created
kokome.

Did the Simini eat as much as the Kokome? If the Simini eat cows for brunch then you have a point.

Hell no, but they put no money into food production and fed over a million of their little monkey-dog people.

Why not use planes? If they hide in caves, we can kill them with pressure difference.

Because it doesn't actually work.

And why are these Troglodite Renaissance Age Gigantopithecii an enemy of the
Simini?

Because the simini wanted the marshlands around their equator, which ferroningen, being reptiles, have no use for, but didn't have the decency to ask, and that whole "we want it we take it" shit doesn't fly with reptiles, especially reptiles twice the size of the aggressor. (And, by the way, that's not very big. Simini are 80cm tall, ferroningen are 120cm with more bulk.)

[avianmosquito]

The crops they use to feed their livestock! Grass, corn, big plant that resembles meat.

Their livestock grazes. You'd have to kill half a hemisphere's worth of what essentially amounts to crab-grass.

How many consistent pages of story have you written? Do not include teasers that jump ahead a few chapters.

I have written 5 short stories and one novel for ~500 pages, although the novel is my worst work, and I should probably stick to short stories.

[Jeremy]

No, but we're comparing kokome with wings to kokome with jetpacks. That's just not as cost-effective, and simini are not totally devoid of common sense, they need some reason to justify the enourmous amount of goverment funding they soak up, or they wouldn't be getting it.

Yeah, but they aren't buoyant in water, how can they even fly in air without jetpacks or antigrav or planes?

That's just not as cost-effective, and simini are not totally devoid of common sense

Planes, with nukes.

they need some reason to justify the enourmous amount of goverment funding they soak up, or they wouldn't be getting it.

Space stations?

Hell no, but they put no money into food production and fed over a million of their little monkey-dog people.

We feed billions. So why do they need marshland for rice production anyways?

Why not use planes? If they hide in caves, we can kill them with pressure difference.

Because it doesn't actually work.

Oh man, it totally does and besides, they can build space ships, I am sure they can come up with even better working bombs than we can.

Read this:

The BLU-118/B is a penetrating warhead filled with an advanced thermobaric explosive that, when detonated, generates higher sustained blast pressures in confined spaces such as tunnels and underground facilities.

. . .

The BLU-118B was successfully tested at the Nevada Test Site on 14 December 2001. During that test, a Guided Bomb Unit (GBU)-24 laser-guided weapon using the BLU-118B warhead was dropped from an F-15E attack aircraft. The laser-guided bomb was "skipped" into a tunnel and exploded with a delayed fuze, which produced a significant growth in overpressure and temperature in the tunnel. When compared to the standard BLU-109 explosive, results showed the new thermobaric weapon generated a significant improvement in overpressure and pressure-impulse in the tunnel complex. The test culminated a two-month accelerated effort to rapidly transition a developmental explosive to improve lethality against underground facilities. DTRA weaponized and delivered (within 60 days) 10 thermobaric-filled air delivered munitions (BLU-118B) designed to enhance lethality in tunnel environments.

Because the simini wanted the marshlands around their equator, which ferroningen, being reptiles, have no use for, but didn't have the decency to ask, and that whole "we want it we take it" shit doesn't fly with reptiles, especially reptiles twice the size of the aggressor. (And, by the way, that's not very big. Simini are 80cm tall, ferroningen are 120cm with more bulk.)

So instead of using planes or nukes, they are going to send a genetically altered human (that already has heat loading problems) down to a very hot world to fight with swords and bows.

Their livestock grazes. You'd have to kill half a hemisphere's worth of what essentially amounts to crab-grass.

That doesn't sound too hard. We might even be able to funnel herds (or whatever) into kill zones too. It's pretty easy to muck up an environment. Actually, we are pretty good at that sort of thing.

I have written 5 short stories and one novel for ~500 pages, although the novel is my worst work, and I should probably stick to short stories.

Wow, that is neat. If they are related to this universe, would you post them in the fanfiction board so we can get a feel for how this place works?

[avianmosquito]

Being physically outclassed doesn't matter that much in modern warfare.

"Sure it matters who's got the biggest stck, but it matters a hell of a lot more who's swinging it." -General Shepard, Call of Duty: Modern warfare 2

Physical traits do matter.
Strength affects the size, and therefore power, of your weaponry. It also affects the amount of armour and equipment you can carry.
Speed affects how hard you are to track and how long you are exposed to enemy fire, as well as how far away you're going to be when that grenade goes off. (And if you can make it to cover before somebody hoses you.)
Endurance affects how long a soldier can fight, if they can handle a melee, and how far they can go on foot.
Finally, durability determines wether or not you're going home in a pine box when you get hit.

But hey, it's not even modern warfare.

No, but it's not regular warfare either. We're looking at theft, hit&fade attacks, and taking advantage of the terrain and environment.

So what's the bloody trouble? Just shoot those guys, they can't really fight back at you since their technology sucks.

So it's so hot you can't see through your own sweat, your head feels like it's going to split open, the humidity is unbareable and you feet can't take any more punishmemt? Yeah, you'll be real accurate. Then again, their equator, where most of the real serious fighting was, was 100% marshland, so your gun probably won't work worth a shit anyway, they'll probably be pretty much in top of you by the time you notice them, (It's called an ambush, and it works.) and now you're going to underestimate them? Don't you have enough disadvantages without adding on extras?

Thermal weapons? After evolving on a planet where one side always faces the sun, ferroningen were quite tolerant to high temperatures.

So they are resistant to thousands of degrees C° ? Just because their planet is about as hot as the Sahara?

No, but it does reduce their effect. The effective range and casualty radius of thermal weapons is significantly lessened, and the underpowered flame units on the bottom of many simini rifles are practically ineffectual.

So they tried it. They bombed the fuck out of their planet, the ferroningen hid in caves, then came out, laughing, mooning, and presenting their arms to the simini.

So what?
First, it's shit-easy to just drop huge rocks from orbit,easily devastating every cave.
Second - what did these cavemen live off? Their surroundings were burned to ashes, they are going to starve very soon.

The simini warships don't have that kind of firepower, they couldn't do any more than destroy the cities. These aren't giant, unrealistically powerful star destroyers bristling with directed energy weapons, these are small, cost-effective corvettes, frigates and cruisers built by a species for whom space travel was barely out of its infancy. Their armament consists of rockets, bombs and machine guns. The bombs are good at ravaging cities, the rockets are decent artillery, the machine guns are just self-defense.

And even if you ignore that - they are still a medieval army, you can kick their ass no matter how strong or numerous they are.

Assuming they fight fair, but they don't. They use ambushes, attacking from a few metres away, coming in fast, from behind, making as little noise as possible as to preserve the element of suprise while they knife you, or alternatively, shooting you with crossbows from a short distance behind you. Then, once you're dead, they loot your body, steal your equipment for use in killing your comrades, and get the hell out of Dodge before reinforcements arrive.

Besides, i would like to now how a medieval planet of giants even gets a 100:1 numerical advantage. Last i checked, we know have many times the population we had a couple of hundred years back.

Simini were never very numerous to begin with, with only one million people at the time of this invasion. The ferroningen (Who were only 120cm, where you got this "giant" thing I have no idea.) only numbered 100 million.

Then why did they want to have that planet in the first place?
It's literary like fighting a war over a desert because you want to build farms and houses there - it'S bloody stupid.
But then again, stupidity seems to be their main trait.

They wanted the marshland around the equator. One word: rice.

It's not like the planet's all one big desert anyway, most of the northern hemisphere is grassland, forests grow where there are mountains, there is rainforest surroundin the marshes on the equator, scattered lakes, savana as you get further north, and then the pole in a burning desert. Only the pole. The rest is all arable land with plantlife, it's just too bloody hot. The southern hemisphere is the polar opposite. It's mostly what we like to call "temperate rainforest" (see also: washington) falling into tundra as you get further south, and then just one giant, dead, icy sheet as you near the pole.

Wait, they figured out how to fly spaceships?
Get lost - that's about as likely as your or me figuring out how to fly a plane without instructions.

That's not as impressive when you consider that simini are a post-industrial society. Really, the flight controlls pretty much come down to "push the button" and the ship comes with an illustrated user's manual.

And again, it demonstrates outstanding stupidity - your species seems to be incapable of using something as simple as passwords for their spaceships.

Look at it how they did. "What are the fucking odds."

In the end, maybe the kokome origin story will increase the credibility. Maybe I should write it out in a short story? Opinion?

No, it doesn't get any better.
The whole thing sounds like some of the stories my sister drew when she was 12 - except that she did not try to explain it with science and/or logic and just blamed it on magic.
Which makes more sense than your ridiculous wanking.

Really? Can't keep civil? Not even going to try? Whatever, this is the internet, I'm used to it.

[Norade]

Being physically outclassed doesn't matter that much in modern warfare.

"Sure it matters who's got the biggest stck, but it matters a hell of a lot more who's swinging it." -General Shepard, Call of Duty: Modern warfare 2

Physical traits do matter.
Strength affects the size, and therefore power, of your weaponry. It also affects the amount of armour and equipment you can carry.
Speed affects how hard you are to track and how long you are exposed to enemy fire, as well as how far away you're going to be when that grenade goes off. (And if you can make it to cover before somebody hoses you.)
Endurance affects how long a soldier can fight, if they can handle a melee, and how far they can go on foot.
Finally, durability determines wether or not you're going home in a pine box when you get hit.

These things all matter very little when you fight from inside a climate controlled metal box on treads with a massive gun resting atop it.

But hey, it's not even modern warfare.

No, but it's not regular warfare either. We're looking at theft, hit&fade attacks, and taking advantage of the terrain and environment.

They can't hide forever and from the air you're going to spot their cool bodies as they step out to catch some sun and then you nail them. If they can't go out to get food without being shot they die.

So what's the bloody trouble? Just shoot those guys, they can't really fight back at you since their technology sucks.

So it's so hot you can't see through your own sweat, your head feels like it's going to split open, the humidity is unbareable and you feet can't take any more punishmemt? Yeah, you'll be real accurate. Then again, their equator, where most of the real serious fighting was, was 100% marshland, so your gun probably won't work worth a shit anyway, they'll probably be pretty much in top of you by the time you notice them, (It's called an ambush, and it works.) and now you're going to underestimate them? Don't you have enough disadvantages without adding on extras?

See the above suggestion of climate controlled planes and tanks. You needn't fight outside if you're not retarded which both you and your creations seem to be.

No, but it does reduce their effect. The effective range and casualty radius of thermal weapons is significantly lessened, and the underpowered flame units on the bottom of many simini rifles are practically ineffectual.

No, that 60 or so degree difference in climate will provide no safety against an FA bomb burning you to a crisp before sucking all the air away to cause a powerful implosion. You would know this if you did any research at all. Not to mention the 'Redox' sop stupid it hurts blaster should be canned as well as it plainly sucks.

The simini warships don't have that kind of firepower, they couldn't do any more than destroy the cities. These aren't giant, unrealistically powerful star destroyers bristling with directed energy weapons, these are small, cost-effective corvettes, frigates and cruisers built by a species for whom space travel was barely out of its infancy. Their armament consists of rockets, bombs and machine guns. The bombs are good at ravaging cities, the rockets are decent artillery, the machine guns are just self-defense.

So they had enough medical wank bio-tech to change a whole race around, but not enough to figure out how to burrow a bomb into a cave or drops rods from god? They must be dumber than we thought. The author by extension as well.

And even if you ignore that - they are still a medieval army, you can kick their ass no matter how strong or numerous they are.

Assuming they fight fair, but they don't. They use ambushes, attacking from a few metres away, coming in fast, from behind, making as little noise as possible as to preserve the element of suprise while they knife you, or alternatively, shooting you with crossbows from a short distance behind you. Then, once you're dead, they loot your body, steal your equipment for use in killing your comrades, and get the hell out of Dodge before reinforcements arrive.

What do they do against tanks and fighter jets?

Besides, i would like to now how a medieval planet of giants even gets a 100:1 numerical advantage. Last i checked, we know have many times the population we had a couple of hundred years back.

Simini were never very numerous to begin with, with only one million people at the time of this invasion. The ferroningen (Who were only 120cm, where you got this "giant" thing I have no idea.) only numbered 100 million.

100 million is still hard to do for pure carnivores living in a hostile environment.

Then why did they want to have that planet in the first place?
It's literary like fighting a war over a desert because you want to build farms and houses there - it'S bloody stupid.
But then again, stupidity seems to be their main trait.

They wanted the marshland around the equator. One word: rice.

It's not like the planet's all one big desert anyway, most of the northern hemisphere is grassland, forests grow where there are mountains, there is rainforest surroundin the marshes on the equator, scattered lakes, savana as you get further north, and then the pole in a burning desert. Only the pole. The rest is all arable land with plantlife, it's just too bloody hot. The southern hemisphere is the polar opposite. It's mostly what we like to call "temperate rainforest" (see also: washington) falling into tundra as you get further south, and then just one giant, dead, icy sheet as you near the pole.

Why not mine comets and use them to make marshes in space habitats? It's easier than invading a world and exporting food out of a gravity well anyway.

Wait, they figured out how to fly spaceships?
Get lost - that's about as likely as your or me figuring out how to fly a plane without instructions.

That's not as impressive when you consider that simini are a post-industrial society. Really, the flight controlls pretty much come down to "push the button" and the ship comes with an illustrated user's manual.

This lizards of course understand the Simini symbols for things right? A diagram that we understand may be impossible for another race to make heads or tails of.

And again, it demonstrates outstanding stupidity - your species seems to be incapable of using something as simple as passwords for their spaceships.

Look at it how they did. "What are the fucking odds."

They didn't put a fail safe three strikes and the aircraft doesn't turn back on until you hard reset function in the damn things?

Really? Can't keep civil? Not even going to try? Whatever, this is the internet, I'm used to it.

Please note the site's motto:

Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people

You certainly seem to qualify for the last bit shit stain.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm sorry, Skeeter, but your explanations for why things have to be the way they are are becoming more and more farfetched to the point of absurdity.

I find it hard to believe your architect species was ever smart enough to develop space travel in the first place, let alone the technology to completely engineer a warrior-race which cannot survive on its' own.

Let's say I'm them. I've found a planet of pre-rennaissance reptiles who are stronger than me, endure the environment of their planet better than I do, and are resistant to bio-weapons. I want the marshlands at the equator of their planet (why, I'm not sure).

Why don't I use kinetic impactors to wipe every settlement and body of water that's more than 500 miles away from the equator off the fucking map? Moreover, why can't I set a wall of automated machine gun emplacements and tremor-sensitive land mines clear around the planet to keep them out?

Their advantages-
*They endure heat. Can they endure tungsten to the skull?
*They're reptiles, so they don't eat much and don't need farmlan. Reptiles don't work that way, if you're fighitng a war you will be hungry.
*They tunnel under defenses. Using modern, twentieth-century technology we can tunnel at best dozens of feet per day. And its loud, and obvious.

Also:

It's not like the planet's all one big desert anyway, most of the northern hemisphere is grassland, forests grow where there are mountains, there is rainforest surroundin the marshes on the equator, scattered lakes, savana as you get further north, and then the pole in a burning desert. Only the pole. The rest is all arable land with plantlife, it's just too bloody hot. The southern hemisphere is the polar opposite. It's mostly what we like to call "temperate rainforest" (see also: washington) falling into tundra as you get further south, and then just one giant, dead, icy sheet as you near the pole.

Equatorial marshes, with a desert at one pole and ice at the other? Unless this planet is facing its' primary head-on then this design makes no sense. If it does, the habitable zone on the planet is only about 800 miles across, and life isn't possible in the rest of it.

This entire fictional universe of yours, from the mysterious-yet-stupid ancient aliens, to the so-poorly-build-they-can't-live warrior race, to the incredibly-lucky-lizard-men...

it all reads like incredibly bad fanfiction written by a twelve-year-old. There is just about nothing good or redeeming about this. Trust us. We're alpha nerds who KNOW what good fiction is. So far NOBODY has told you your story is good as-is. I know it hurts when you spend years on a pet project and find out it is shit, but that's what is happening here.

Start over but make more sense, or scrap it and try something new, but nobody is ever going to enjoy 'Stupidity Beyond the Stars: The Mosquito Warriors of Omicron Persei 8'.

[Serafina]

No, but it's not regular warfare either. We're looking at theft, hit&fade attacks, and taking advantage of the terrain and environment.

You see, these things work in real life because
-the enemies either did not have the technology for total destruction (pretty much always until the 20th century)
-or were unwilling to just bomb the damn place since they either wanted to avoid civilian casualties or wanted the resources of that place.

Heck, even without carpet bombing everything guerilla resistance has very harsh limits. You need to look no further back than WWII - guerillas can't beat determined modern armies. Especially not in a bloody desert.

Well, neither of the above is the case here. You can nuke (with nukes or rocks) the desert since you don't want it anyway. You don't care about the lizards, so you can kill them all.
So you have several options:
-nuke the desert. Fallout is a drawback, but not necessarily a crippling one
-drop large stuff from orbit. Allmost the same effect with next to no fallout. You can use local asteroids, scrap metal - virtually everything. For laughs, use the sand from the very same desert for this.
-use more conventional bombs. Without wildlife, they will starve to death pretty quickly.
-bioengineer a disease that wipes them out. It's easy to create a disease which their immune system never encountered before - those can get very high fatality rates with ease.
-just fortify your farms. Primitives with clubs won't do squat against them.

All this is cheaper and much more efficient than creating hundreds of thousands of expensive biological lifeforms.

The simini warships don't have that kind of firepower, they couldn't do any more than destroy the cities. These aren't giant, unrealistically powerful star destroyers bristling with directed energy weapons, these are small, cost-effective corvettes, frigates and cruisers built by a species for whom space travel was barely out of its infancy. Their armament consists of rockets, bombs and machine guns. The bombs are good at ravaging cities, the rockets are decent artillery, the machine guns are just self-defense.

So they can't spend a couple of months hauling some small asteroids into orbit?
EVERY species with spacecrafts has the potential to devastate an undefended (against spaceships) planet. A large freighter with several hundred tons of sand is enough for that.

So it's so hot you can't see through your own sweat, your head feels like it's going to split open, the humidity is unbareable and you feet can't take any more punishmemt? Yeah, you'll be real accurate. Then again, their equator, where most of the real serious fighting was, was 100% marshland, so your gun probably won't work worth a shit anyway, they'll probably be pretty much in top of you by the time you notice them, (It's called an ambush, and it works.) and now you're going to underestimate them? Don't you have enough disadvantages without adding on extras?

Then why do they want that planet anyway? A bit of farmland is no reason to counqer a whole planet, you can do this far easier with orbital farms.

No, but it does reduce their effect. The effective range and casualty radius of thermal weapons is significantly lessened, and the underpowered flame units on the bottom of many simini rifles are practically ineffectual.

Sorry, but..
YOU ARE A MORON.
Just because you can survive, say 80°c (you can't go much higher with an active mulitcellular metabolism), you won't survive a crispy 1200°C napalm shower. Neither will you be more resistant. A polar bear burns just as nice as an equally heavy desert animal.

Assuming they fight fair, but they don't. They use ambushes, attacking from a few metres away, coming in fast, from behind, making as little noise as possible as to preserve the element of suprise while they knife you, or alternatively, shooting you with crossbows from a short distance behind you. Then, once you're dead, they loot your body, steal your equipment for use in killing your comrades, and get the hell out of Dodge before reinforcements arrive.

Ooooh, scary. Well, except, you know, not.
Sure, they can fuck over a patrol every now and then. Simply don't send your men down there then. It's really just that simple. Any spacefaring civilisation has the technology to avoid such battles if they want to, especially if they do not have civilan cities to defend (specially constructed farms don't count, since they can be built with their own defenses).


Besides, what makes you think that the natives will attack ruthelessly anyway? What do they gain from it?
They don't use the marchlands anyway. Just bribe them with some cheap stuff like metal knifes.
IF they attack, they will soon stop since they will take horrendous casualties from near-literal gods from the sky.

Simini were never very numerous to begin with, with only one million people at the time of this invasion. The ferroningen (Who were only 120cm, where you got this "giant" thing I have no idea.) only numbered 100 million.

ONE MILLION??
For a multi-planet spacefaring civilisation?
And that civilisation then had the resources to create a whole new species in large numbers?

You have no idea how absurd that is, do you? One million is barely a large city on earth. It's less than 0.1 percent of all humans.

That's not as impressive when you consider that simini are a post-industrial society. Really, the flight controlls pretty much come down to "push the button" and the ship comes with an illustrated user's manual.

So they can activate the autpilot.
Does that mean that they can also work the weapon systems, that those are fully automated too?
God, your creations are even stupider than i tought. Which really says something.

Look at it how they did. "What are the fucking odds."

Did i mention that they are stupid?

Really? Can't keep civil? Not even going to try? Whatever, this is the internet, I'm used to it.

Oh, stop whining. I merely said that it is wanking - because it's a near textbook definition of it.

In fact, you should find that we are extraordinarily civil to you, if you consider that you are spouting impressively ignorant stuff here. You literaly have constructed a very elaborate make-belief with no basis in reality at all and try to sell it as realistic. For that, we are very civil.

[avianmosquito]

Not really either. I don't have heroes, I have soldiers, and they sure as hell aren't plucky.

In the end, the rebellion was 500 years before the main timeline, everything has changed, and the politicians who originally kept tje rebel factions allied have all died, leaving behind sucessors who seem to have their skulls surgically attached to their colons and a cumpulsive need to frequently use their toes to feel the back of their throats.

Things in your universe get dumber than what you've already posted?!?

That is to say, they became ALMOST as hopeless as real politicians.

[avianmosquito]

These things all matter very little when you fight from inside a climate controlled metal box on treads with a massive gun resting atop it.

We're talking about the infantry. Can't fight a war without them.

They can't hide forever and from the air you're going to spot their cool bodies as they step out to catch some sun and then you nail them. If they can't go out to get food without being shot they die.

Take a tunnel, go grab another pack of salted meat out of the basement of a bombed-out local butcher shop. At the same time, if they can kill one simini for every 99 ferroningen, they're winning.

See the above suggestion of climate controlled planes and tanks. You needn't fight outside if you're not retarded which both you and your creations seem to be.

At what cost? How much more are aircraft going to cost than infantry? These people do have to make money, after all. A planet covered in arable land is big, and they aren't going to exceed that, but isn't it best to do it with as little company money as possible? (Government money, on the other hand...)

Also, infantry are an integral part of any organized military force. You simply can't work without them for very long. If you can't understand why, why don't you read a few books on military tactics.

No, that 60 or so degree difference in climate will provide no safety against an FA bomb burning you to a crisp before sucking all the air away to cause a powerful implosion. You would know this if you did any research at all. Not to mention the 'Redox' sop stupid it hurts blaster should be canned as well as it plainly sucks.

Wow, you're an even bigger dick than Terwyn.

It isn't a matter of sheer heat resistance, it's a matter of water retention. Ferroningen evlolved to retain water well, their scales absorbing heat slowly. Also, their blood vessels are deeper into the body, meaning they lose less fluid from burns than a softer, warmer creature, like a mammal, would.

So they had enough medical wank bio-tech to change a whole race around, but not enough to figure out how to burrow a bomb into a cave or drops rods from god? They must be dumber than we thought. The author by extension as well.

They could bury a bomb, but the yeild is limited. Burying it limits the yield further. (Simini explosives are usually thermobaric, requiring air around them to work. As for drpping things from orbit, most debris will be destroyed by re-entry, so they cannot do something so ludicrous as drop their own sand on them, or use bits of scrap metal. They would need something bigger, which means more cost, and it can't be too big because, as you fools always seem to miss, collateral damage is a BAD thing. As for more standardized kinetic penetrators, they did use them, but they were incapable of causing significant damage to a large, complex connection of caves and tunnels, and any damage they do can be easily repaired or bypassed. They were not cost effective. In the end, the best would of been to get at this diplomatically, despite the obvious difficulty with communication.

What do they do against tanks and fighter jets?

Avoid the tanks or hit them with a stolen rocket. It's not hard to work a rocket launcer. As far as jets, keep your head down, they won't be there long.

100 million is still hard to do for pure carnivores living in a hostile environment, but they are are at a rennaisance level of technology. Pradators are not an issue when you have a crossbow and good aim, their environment is perfect for cold-blooded reptiles that don't sleep, and they have a lot of livestock, which provide eggs and meat. There is no reason not to have a large population. (Except maybe that they'll go to war on the drop of a har.)

Why not mine comets and use them to make marshes in space habitats? It's easier than invading a world and exporting food out of a gravity well anyway.

Yeah, but which one causes the goverment to give you more money? "We need R&D money for a statistically negligible amount of food to be produced in space." or "We need supply money, so we can go throw some savages off of their land and use it to further improve the economy."

This lizards of course understand the Simini symbols for things right? A diagram that we understand may be impossible for another race to make heads or tails of.

Point taken, but simini are even lazier than humans. A lot of "noble" simini can't even walk. These diagrams are going to be easier to understand. The text will be in size 32 font. The manual will be 30 pages long, only 10 pages worth of text.

Look at it how they did. "What are the fucking odds."[/quote]

They didn't put a fail safe three strikes and the aircraft doesn't turn back on until you hard reset function in the damn things?

8 strikes. Also, ship captains tend to keep it written down because they're too lazy to memorize it.

You certainly seem to qualify for the last bit shit stain.

You aren't so great youself. Didn't even cinsider that a good conqueror generally does NOT destroy his prize.

[Starglider]

So it's so hot you can't see through your own sweat, your head feels like it's going to split open, the humidity is unbareable and you feet can't take any more punishmemt?

They can build INTERSTELLAR STARSHIPS. They can certainly build a swarm of UAVs with machine guns on them. That's all you'd need to take out a bunch of stone age dinosaurs.

First, it's shit-easy to just drop huge rocks from orbit

The simini warships don't have that kind of firepower, they couldn't do any more than destroy the cities. These aren't giant, unrealistically powerful star destroyers bristling with directed energy weapons,

You're not getting this. You don't need weapons for ground bombardment. Any craft with the ability to travel between star systems will find it trivial to grab asteroids and accelerate them (or pieces of them) onto appropriate trajectories. You can scale the damage from 'wipe out town' to 'Dinosaur-killer extinction level event' by choosing the size of the rock.

Of course you haven't explained how these starships work, what they're powered by (antimatter? also good for blowing stuff up) etc.

Simini were never very numerous to begin with, with only one million people at the time of this invasion.

There is absolutely no way a mere million individuals with physical (and apparently, intellectual) capability equal to human children could build a modern civilisation, never mind an interstellar one. The economy would just not be there to support large scale R&D or industrial construction.

But then again, stupidity seems to be their main trait.

They wanted the marshland around the equator. One word: rice.

WHAT? At this point I have to wonder if you are deliberately trolling. We know they're not trying to colonise the planet because it's too damn hot. We know they have a mere million people. You're claiming that it makes more sense to build starships, fly across the galaxy, invade a horrible planet full of hostile natives, to grow crops which will then have to be loaded onto ships and flown back across the galaxy? How did you not realise that it would be about one million times cheaper to just set up some hydroponic facilities and grow the stuff there?

Really, the flight controlls pretty much come down to "push the button" and the ship comes with an illustrated user's manual.

That requires near human AI. If they have that, they don't need slaves, they can just use robots (vastly more practical for transport over interstellar distances, since they don't need food or air, also much less likely to rebel). Presumably these robots easily can be self-replicating since it's a 'post industrial society'.

The whole thing sounds like some of the stories my sister drew when she was 12 - except that she did not try to explain it with science and/or logic and just blamed it on magic.

Yeah, this would work a lot better (still not well) in a fantasy setting where you could say something like 'this race of degenerate magic-users crossbred humans with summoned demons to make their slaves'.

[CaptainChewbacca]

An intersteller architect civilization gets its ass kicked because it tries to conquer space-Japan to get enough space to grow RICE?!

Good holy god, that's the stupidest thing I've ever read. There's no point in trying to save a story this poorly written. Not to mention you keep ignoring my posts.

[Serafina]

We're talking about the infantry. Can't fight a war without them.

Sure you can. Just drop a pile'o nukes from orbit.

You can't fight a war without infantry if you have to consider collateral damage. For everything else, there's nukes.
(or similar devices)

Take a tunnel, go grab another pack of salted meat out of the basement of a bombed-out local butcher shop. At the same time, if they can kill one simini for every 99 ferroningen, they're winning.

If there is anything left to grab, you need bigger bombs.

And if any spacefaring civilisation is not getting at least a 100:1 kill ratio against a bunch of primitives, they are doing something seriously wrong.
Yours is.

At what cost? How much more are aircraft going to cost than infantry? These people do have to make money, after all. A planet covered in arable land is big, and they aren't going to exceed that, but isn't it best to do it with as little company money as possible? (Government money, on the other hand...)

Not that much, considering that the aircrafts are in no danger at all.

Besides, using another planet for food production is already inefficient as hell. You have to haul the whole stuff out of the gravity well - and then you need to transport it to it's destination.
Even if your FTL is cheap as hell, you still have to do the planetary lifting.

Also, infantry are an integral part of any organized military force. You simply can't work without them for very long. If you can't understand why, why don't you read a few books on military tactics.

See above.

It isn't a matter of sheer heat resistance, it's a matter of water retention. Ferroningen evlolved to retain water well, their scales absorbing heat slowly. Also, their blood vessels are deeper into the body, meaning they lose less fluid from burns than a softer, warmer creature, like a mammal, would.

Wow, you truly ARE a moron.
There is just no way that a biological organism can survive temperatures that melt steel.

As for drpping things from orbit, most debris will be destroyed by re-entry, so they cannot do something so ludicrous as drop their own sand on them, or use bits of scrap metal. They would need something bigger, which means more cost, and it can't be too big because, as you fools always seem to miss, collateral damage is a BAD thing.

So what if it burns up?
It still releases the exact same amount of energy. Job done.

And collateral damage is NOT a bad thing. You have areas the size of whole continents that you have absolutely no need for. Just killfuck them from orbit and you wipe out most of the enemy.

As for more standardized kinetic penetrators, they did use them, but they were incapable of causing significant damage to a large, complex connection of caves and tunnels, and any damage they do can be easily repaired or bypassed. They were not cost effective.

Bullshit. Kinetic impactors can easily get into the megaton range. That's going to bury any tunnel entrance under hundreds of feets of rock. And tunnels digged by a bunch of primites aren't exatly that solid.

Yeah, but which one causes the goverment to give you more money? "We need R&D money for a statistically negligible amount of food to be produced in space." or "We need supply money, so we can go throw some savages off of their land and use it to further improve the economy."

You honestly have no bloody clue how politics work, do you?
Tell me, have you ever voted?

A goverment looks what's done with the money. They just don't throw billions of it in an arsenine project.

Besides, which company is going to make more money?
The one acquiring goverment funding and then wasting it on some outback planet without any real value, or the one building profitable space habitats and plantations?


Okay, let's make this nice and slow:
Any civilisation that can travel between stars should be able to wipe the floor with medieval thugs without breaking into sweat. Especially if it doesn't care about their lifes.

Greater physical strenght and the occasional stolen RPG is NOT going to cut it against tanks and aircraft. Guerillias can be ingnored if you do not care about the life of your enemies families. Just killfuck every village in a radius of, say, 100 kilometers.

The mere notion that a reneissance-civilisation can operate modern vehicles for any significant amout of time is preposterous. They have no fuel, no spare parts, no knowledge how to operate it properly etc.

Furthermore, any spacefaring civilistation is capable of mass destruction with sniveling ease. You completely ignore that, claiming that collateral damage is bad. In your szenario, the enemy settels a huge open desert that you do not want anyway. Thus, collateral damage is NOT an issue. Just blow it up, problem mostly solved.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Barring typos in Serafina's sZenario, I think that's a pretty accurate summation of why this isn't workable.

[Serafina]

Barring typos in Serafina's sZenario, I think that's a pretty accurate summation of why this isn't workable.

Oh, it's certainly workable. If they WANT to create a species just to send them into a completly unnecessary war, they certainly can.

Just like we could send african children armed with toy guns into Afghanistan instead of actual soldiers if we really, really wanted to (politics aside for both things, of course).

But both szenarios are about equally moronic and unlikely to ever happen.
What i wrote in my previous post is what would actually happen if that race has even a shred of intelligence left.