Iron Man 2 Reviews (Spoilers)

[eion]

Even if he didn't know Stark would be driving, if Ivan attacks Stark's race car it's a good bet Iron Man shows up, which lets Ivan attack him.

Stark driving the car just saved him a step.

[Nephtys]

Even if he didn't know Stark would be driving, if Ivan attacks Stark's race car it's a good bet Iron Man shows up, which lets Ivan attack him.

Stark driving the car just saved him a step.

I suppose alternatively, he could have just wanted to gank Stark after identifying where he sits or something. Even though he's dressed as a person in the pit crew, the jumpsuit covers all that gear he's wearing. But yeah, when I saw the movie I thought that's a bit odd that he was there juuust when Stark happens to decide on spur-of-the-moment to do the race himself.

[Havok]

And, I was going to let someone else point this out, but since no one has... How the fuck does Ivan even know that Stark is driving? He surprised everyone, including his driver (who threw his helmet completely pissed off) with that 'bucket list' stunt.

This is really the only plot hole I can think of in the movie and it could have been closed with a 5 second shot of Ivan watching a quick newscast track side of what had transpired.

He knew Stark was going to be at the track. The pit crew suit would have given him all kinds of access, getting him in and allowing him to close with Stark's position. That would be Plan A. It's not like Tony's last minute substitution was kept secret. The whole track would be buzzing with it. Ivan then adjusts his plan to attacking Tony's car. It really doesn't require much in the way of explanation.

Of course it does. Stark was supposed to be sitting in a restaurant with Pepper.

[Imperial Overlord]

Stark was known to be in town for the race. Setting up to get him at the race track was a logical move. It would have failed if Tony hadn't bailed on lunch, but it's a perfectly reasonable plan.

[Havok]

Even if he didn't know Stark would be driving, if Ivan attacks Stark's race car it's a good bet Iron Man shows up, which lets Ivan attack him.

Stark driving the car just saved him a step.

This is possible, EXCEPT that there is no way that he poses a threat to Iron Man. The only reason he was a threat to the suitcase suit was because it couldn't fly and because he was close enough to keep attacking and keep Tony off balance so that none of his normal attacks would be effective. Tony's standard digs could easily stay out of range of Ivan in his Mk I suit.

[Havok]

Stark was known to be in town for the race. Setting up to get him at the race track was a logical move. It would have failed if Tony hadn't bailed on lunch, but it's a perfectly reasonable plan.

No it isn't. Tony was supposed to be at the restaurant, how far away? (See Happy's mad dash to the track) Ivan is slowly strutting around the track. The odds of him knowing where Stark was eating lunch are pretty fucking slim as well. And I doubt he was walking to where he thought Tony would eating lunch even if he knew, at that pace, and in a bright fucking orange track suit that everyone would have seen coming 5 minutes away.
No, his plan seems to hinge on Stark being at the actual track, even through we know that is not where he was supposed to be. Just 'in town for the race' makes no fucking sense.

[eion]

Even if he didn't know Stark would be driving, if Ivan attacks Stark's race car it's a good bet Iron Man shows up, which lets Ivan attack him.

Stark driving the car just saved him a step.

This is possible, EXCEPT that there is no way that he poses a threat to Iron Man. The only reason he was a threat to the suitcase suit was because it couldn't fly and because he was close enough to keep attacking and keep Tony off balance so that none of his normal attacks would be effective. Tony's standard digs could easily stay out of range of Ivan in his Mk I suit.

Except Ivan knows Stark is Iron Man (As does the whole world), and could probably safely guess that he wouldn't have a full Iron Man suit available at the race track (after seeing the sophisticated and heavy infrastructure needed to don the suit at Stark Expo).

Therefore, he likely guesses that Stark will either A) Not be able to change into Iron Man or B) will have some kind of lower power back-up suit he will put on to stop the attack on his race car.

That briefcase small suitcase isn't exactly subtle, and it's likely Happy carries it to all of Stark's public appearances, so Ivan may well have figured out what was in it.

[Imperial Overlord]

Stark was known to be in town for the race. Setting up to get him at the race track was a logical move. It would have failed if Tony hadn't bailed on lunch, but it's a perfectly reasonable plan.

No it isn't. Tony was supposed to be at the restaurant, how far away? (See Happy's mad dash to the track) Ivan is slowly strutting around the track. The odds of him knowing where Stark was eating lunch are pretty fucking slim as well. And I doubt he was walking to where he thought Tony would eating lunch even if he knew, at that pace, and in a bright fucking orange track suit that everyone would have seen coming 5 minutes away.
No, his plan seems to hinge on Stark being at the actual track, even through we know that is not where he was supposed to be. Just 'in town for the race' makes no fucking sense.

He's at the town where Stark's team is racing. Stark is in town. That Stark will be at the race is the logical conclusion to draw, even if it's wrong. Ivan doesn't know Stark's plan, but he does have the media's coverage of Stark. So he does know
1) when and where the race is happening
2) Stark has a team in the race
3) Stark will be in that town at that time.

He does not know

4) Stark's lunch plans

So assuming Stark will be at the race is perfectly reasonable. Ivan got lucky. If he hadn't, well he would have tried again and again until he got close to Tony, but we don't need to spend valuable time on that. The movie is carrying enough baggage as it is.

[Havok]

Stark was known to be in town for the race. Setting up to get him at the race track was a logical move. It would have failed if Tony hadn't bailed on lunch, but it's a perfectly reasonable plan.

No it isn't. Tony was supposed to be at the restaurant, how far away? (See Happy's mad dash to the track) Ivan is slowly strutting around the track. The odds of him knowing where Stark was eating lunch are pretty fucking slim as well. And I doubt he was walking to where he thought Tony would eating lunch even if he knew, at that pace, and in a bright fucking orange track suit that everyone would have seen coming 5 minutes away.
No, his plan seems to hinge on Stark being at the actual track, even through we know that is not where he was supposed to be. Just 'in town for the race' makes no fucking sense.

He's at the town where Stark's team is racing. Stark is in town. That Stark will be at the race is the logical conclusion to draw, even if it's wrong. Ivan doesn't know Stark's plan, but he does have the media's coverage of Stark. So he does know
1) when and where the race is happening
2) Stark has a team in the race
3) Stark will be in that town at that time.

He does not know

4) Stark's lunch plans

So assuming Stark will be at the race is perfectly reasonable. Ivan got lucky. If he hadn't, well he would have tried again and again until he got close to Tony, but we don't need to spend valuable time on that. The movie is carrying enough baggage as it is.

And hopefully one of the worlds most notoriously compulsive Billionaires stays in town and does exactly what Ivan needs him to do or else he is possibly stuck in Monaco with a completely illegal weapon, forged documents and identification and probably no way to either get back to Russia or to the States to try again? Not likely. Ivan knew this was a one way trip, but he isn't banking on luck.

Like I said though, this is the only plot hole I even noticed. Although I don't know what baggage you are talking about.

[Imperial Overlord]

Like I said though, this is the only plot hole I even noticed. Although I don't know what baggage you are talking about.

You're making a number of assumptions, among them Ivan's documents won't let him leave, that he can't get more, and that he can't smuggle a weapon out of a country he smuggled it into. That's all supposition on your part. It was a one way trip for Ivan, not because he couldn't leave the country but because once he publicly attacked Stark, there was no way he was going to be able to escape. But until he attacked he was operating under the radar.

The "baggage" is my perception the movie was somewhat unfocused and sagged a bit in the middle. A few plot elements could have been trimmed. Overall, I thought it was pretty good. Adding a few "Ivan doesn't quite catch" Tony moments would have exasperated those problems.

[Bilbo]

Really a slight flaw of the film as it makes even the underline motivation of Whiplash very meh. Add this to the rest of his mess, Whiplash has more of a whiny bitch spilled milk vibe rather then any real justification.

Gotta disagree with you Ghost Rider. This needed more, not less development. It's an incredible dick move to resolve your dispute with the co-creator of a piece of technology by deporting a Soviet defector back to the Soviet Union. It gives Whiplash a credible motivation for revenge, as well as a background that allows him to create his own Arc Reactor.

There is something missing here. If Daddy was deported for trying to sell the technology (to who we dont know) then why was he allowed to leave with a full set of plans? Seems that if Howard Stark was really trying to keep the tech from getting out then he would not have allowed a set of plans to go with him. Also why couldnt Vanko's daddy build an arc reactor for the Soviets? He had the plans. He was part of the team that built the first one. His son was able to build a mini version.

My guess?

There was no real deportation. This was a plan by Vanko's dad and Howard to get the arc technology to the Soviet Union. Howard was an idealist. It would not be surprising if he felt that both superpowers have new super reactors would ease tensions as energy was no longer a tension point for either one.

So they created this plan to get him deported, and sent him home with a full set of plans.

Unfortunately for whatever reason no Soviet reactor could be built and Dad got sent to Siberia, where he got drunk and bitter with age. Eventually, unable to admit his own failure he latched onto the cover story that he was cheated by Stark and fed that bile to his son between bottles of cheap vodka.

[Bilbo]

Did anyone else think "Don't cross the streams" the first time Stark and Rhodey did the simultaneous repulsor shot thing? And of course, in the end crossing the streams was the solution.

The whiplash mk.1 suit was kind of stupid. Could he have put some armor on it? He could have been killed by a cop with a handgun, or powered armor suit with super strength punching him hard. Surely that must have occurred to him. The only decent justification I can think of is that he was more concerned with concealment than protection and didn't expect Stark to have his armor football.

I thought the same thing. But the suit must have some sort of forcefield to it. Happy slammed him into the concrete enbankment a couple times with his car and those stunned but did no real damage to Vanko. If that happened to a normal person they are crippled and moments away from death from massive internal hemoraging.

It also fits with the visual of his suit burning his jumpsuit off him when he activated it.

[The Cooler King]

I thought the same thing. But the suit must have some sort of forcefield to it. Happy slammed him into the concrete enbankment a couple times with his car and those stunned but did no real damage to Vanko. If that happened to a normal person they are crippled and moments away from death from massive internal hemoraging.

It also fits with the visual of his suit burning his jumpsuit off him when he activated it.

I just watched it again Thursday, and I noticed a big chunk of exoskeleton peeking out around Vanko's legs as he was dragged away on the track. It's not a big stretch to think that the skeleton covers part of his pelvis, as well; that might offer some limited protection against being crushed by the limo. Still, I really like the idea of the Whiplash prototype having a force field. It's also not too big of a stretch to think that the Iron Man suits have them as well. That would dovetail nicely with the comic suits, which do have force fields to back up the armor.

[Crazedwraith]

I just assumed Vanko survived being rammed by the car the same way, Tony survived an unpowered crash in the mark on or slamming himself into a concrete ceiling headfirst with his new jet boots in the first film. Comic book logic.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I just watched it again Thursday, and I noticed a big chunk of exoskeleton peeking out around Vanko's legs as he was dragged away on the track. It's not a big stretch to think that the skeleton covers part of his pelvis, as well; that might offer some limited protection against being crushed by the limo. Still, I really like the idea of the Whiplash prototype having a force field. It's also not too big of a stretch to think that the Iron Man suits have them as well. That would dovetail nicely with the comic suits, which do have force fields to back up the armor.

But we don't see any indication at all for a forcefield and it isn't a parsimonious argument in the least. If there were a forcefield, the damage we do see inflicted wouldn't occur, there'd also be plenty of dialogue or other indicators on screen for that kind of technology.

[The Cooler King]

But we don't see any indication at all for a forcefield and it isn't a parsimonious argument in the least. If there were a forcefield, the damage we do see inflicted wouldn't occur, there'd also be plenty of dialogue or other indicators on screen for that kind of technology.

Good point. It's just wishful thinking on my part, with nothing to back it up. Still, the exoskeleton itself could have absorbed SOME of the impact. Vanko just has to worry about the now-deformed metal jaggedly forced into his stomach...

[Imperial Overlord]

There is something missing here. If Daddy was deported for trying to sell the technology (to who we dont know) then why was he allowed to leave with a full set of plans? Seems that if Howard Stark was really trying to keep the tech from getting out then he would not have allowed a set of plans to go with him. Also why couldnt Vanko's daddy build an arc reactor for the Soviets? He had the plans. He was part of the team that built the first one. His son was able to build a mini version.

My guess?

There was no real deportation. This was a plan by Vanko's dad and Howard to get the arc technology to the Soviet Union. Howard was an idealist. It would not be surprising if he felt that both superpowers have new super reactors would ease tensions as energy was no longer a tension point for either one.

So they created this plan to get him deported, and sent him home with a full set of plans.

Unfortunately for whatever reason no Soviet reactor could be built and Dad got sent to Siberia, where he got drunk and bitter with age. Eventually, unable to admit his own failure he latched onto the cover story that he was cheated by Stark and fed that bile to his son between bottles of cheap vodka.

The whole feud between their dads part of the story could have used more work. Vanko was codeveloper, so Stark might have been able to pull strings and have him deported, but Vanko could have managed through one means or another to retain one of his copy of the plans.

As to why he still gets fucked after that, that part is actually easy. Iron Man 1 establishes the fact that the Arc Reactor is generally regarded as a failure. Vanko is a former defector who is kicked back to the Soviet Union and the only thing he has with him is a piece of what turns out to be dead end technology. Without each other, Stark and Vanko are unable to take the Arc Reactor for the next step. The technology stagnates until Tony builds the minireactor in Iron Man 1.

[Gil Hamilton]

Nerd RAGE:
What I don't understand is how Vanko's whips could nearly slice through an entire Formula One racecar without any trace of resistance but were largely stopped by even the light version of the Iron Man suit. He had that shit wrapped around his neck, a place that COULDN'T have had large armored plates, but Stark was fine. Further, the first movie describes what the Iron Man Suit is made out of and it's not freakin' adamantium. The suit that Stark fought Whiplash in the first time was light enough that Happy could hold it one handed, it's not like he was carting it around with a dolly. While I could accept that the chassis and frame of a Formula One race car could be particularly vulnerable to sheering from Vanko's whips, being made of carbon fibre construction, he went through the one's engine block with equal ease and was slashing off bits of the car Happy was driving.

It kind of strikes me as a plot problem that they made Iron Man so arbitrarily invincible to Whiplash. During the last battle, when Vanko shows up in his suit and pulls out the whips, it doesn't have much tension, because you know that Iron Man can just take the hit and kick his ass, even if Warmachine wasn't there. They were already completely invincible to all the other robots that Vanko had made, not even dodging while trading witty repartee while being shot harmlessly by Vanko's robots, Vanko just didn't come across as a serious boss fight. And it was anti-climatic. Vanko still couldn't seriously hurt them, just was tossing them around until they crossed the streams, which didn't really hurt them either. Slane was a much better fight in the first movie as Iron Monger, because there was a shot that he possibly could have won. Vanko... well, you knew full well that eventually he'd show up in a new suit and that Stark was going to kick his ass once he finally showed up. The last sequence with the Hammerdroids and Whiplash was all very cool looking, but the outcome wasn't exactly in doubt.

Also, they may want to look up what the word "element" is and also consult a periodic table to see if there are any gaps in it.


Anyway, that said, it was a decent popcorn film. I liked Whiplash in general, though Nick Fury was largely a plot device to info dump and fix Stark's problem. They probably should have avoided the palladium poisoning problem in general if all they were going to do was have Black Widow give him a shot ("wait, did they say lithium hydroxide? ") and have that problem fixed. It somewhat lacked dramatic tension, but it had alot of explosions, Robert Downey Jr playing the same character he always plays, and Scarlet Johannson in a catsuit beating up men with her thighs, so it accomplished what it set out to do. I can say I saw it and it was alright, plus I get the joy of being Outraged! of the movies baffling contempt of the science of chemistry.

[Bakustra]

Also, they may want to look up what the word "element" is and also consult a periodic table to see if there are any gaps in it.

It's presumably a superheavy element, I'd guess 131 because that's likely to fall in the island of stability and is in the same column as palladium and so is likely to share its properties. Granted, the bad part is Stark producing it in open air, with a proton beam he didn't even bother to aim beforehand. Now his entire basement is irradiated.

[Gil Hamilton]

It's presumably a superheavy element, I'd guess 131 because that's likely to fall in the island of stability and is in the same column as palladium and so is likely to share its properties. Granted, the bad part is Stark producing it in open air, with a proton beam he didn't even bother to aim beforehand. Now his entire basement is irradiated.

I thought the magic numbers were 114, 120, and 126. Besides, those elements are just MORE stable than other transuranics, not stable. So if that were the case, Stark would be sticking a slug of radioactive material in his chest that has a half-life of minutes rather than just decaying immediately on formation. I don't think that's the answer. Besides, even if it was long-term stable, I can't imagine that it wouldn't be a serious heavy metal toxin.

What they probably should have done was introduce it as vibranium or some other fictional material that actually is in Marvel comics. I mean, adamantium and vibranium both have arbitrary magic properties as the story demands it, there is no reason why a slug of adamantium can't do the job. Hell, it even specifically doesn't have the weird health problems that vibranium does and you can even stick it in people as long term prosthetics. Part of the story could have been Tony Stark figuring out how to make the damn stuff, since I recall figuring out how to make adamantium is no joke.

[Bakustra]

It's presumably a superheavy element, I'd guess 131 because that's likely to fall in the island of stability and is in the same column as palladium and so is likely to share its properties. Granted, the bad part is Stark producing it in open air, with a proton beam he didn't even bother to aim beforehand. Now his entire basement is irradiated.

I thought the magic numbers were 114, 120, and 126. Besides, those elements are just MORE stable than other transuranics, not stable. So if that were the case, Stark would be sticking a slug of radioactive material in his chest that has a half-life of minutes rather than just decaying immediately on formation. I don't think that's the answer. Besides, even if it was long-term stable, I can't imagine that it wouldn't be a serious heavy metal toxin.

What they probably should have done was introduce it as vibranium or some other fictional material that actually is in Marvel comics. I mean, adamantium and vibranium both have arbitrary magic properties as the story demands it, there is no reason why a slug of adamantium can't do the job. Hell, it even specifically doesn't have the weird health problems that vibranium does and you can even stick it in people as long term prosthetics. Part of the story could have been Tony Stark figuring out how to make the damn stuff, since I recall figuring out how to make adamantium is no joke.

Apparently, the novel has Stark name it Vibranium. When it comes to the island of stability, I've heard potential long-lived elements being tossed around, but I will bow to you in this matter. I'm just suggesting 131 because it's directly below palladium, but it could well be any number (at least until the DVD, when we can see if there's a deducible structure to the Expo sphere and figure out the raw combined number for extra-hilarity). I'm just throwing this out there, but it's still a dumb scene.

[Azron_Stoma]

I personally enjoyed the film quite a bit, there were a few parts that seemed to drag and left me with a "come on get to the good parts" as well as a few logic gaffs, but all in all it was a fun ride.

Can't wait for them to do the full on Avengers film though.

[Gil Hamilton]

Apparently, the novel has Stark name it Vibranium. When it comes to the island of stability, I've heard potential long-lived elements being tossed around, but I will bow to you in this matter. I'm just suggesting 131 because it's directly below palladium, but it could well be any number (at least until the DVD, when we can see if there's a deducible structure to the Expo sphere and figure out the raw combined number for extra-hilarity). I'm just throwing this out there, but it's still a dumb scene.

Keep in mind my knowledge of magic number transuranics is by no means a thorough one. It's just my understanding is that they are long lived enough that you can do chemistry on them, which is what is cool. They still should be radioactive. If he called it vibranium in the novel, that makes a whole lot more sense, due to it being one of Marvel comics imaginary super metals that do anything. I'd have made it adamantium if only because I can recall from the comic that vibranium has caused cancer and horrible mutations on occasion on exposure to it, but then again, Captain America's shield is also made out of it. It might have been a better touch if Nick Fury simply provided a sample of the stuff and told Stark to figure out how to synthesize it, since it would have made it more obvious that Fury knew something that Stark didn't about what was going on and also try to get Tony on board to finish what his dad started, and provide alot of vibranium.

[KlavoHunter]

I wish Whiplash was a smart villain instead of a lucky lunatic. He does not like using his helmet when fighting two Iron Man battesuits. Thus he got killed by a concussive blast. If he had it on the blast would not even have fazed him in slightest. He is lucky in sense that he did not get head shotted by auto targeting guns a millisecond after arriving. In first Iron Man Stane had a valid reason to remove his helmet after his targeting system got knocked out. Whiplash seems to just want to look intimidating. How a moron like him is supposedly both dangerous and a genius is beyond incomprehensible.

Right away when Whiplash shows up, Stark targets his face and unleashes a volley of projectiles, but Whiplash's facemask comes up into place in time to save him.

[RecklessPrudence]

I was walking home from roleplaying, and something hit me. Those peace signs Stark was throwing out everywhere? I think they're his tribute to the servicemen who died in front of him, killed by his weapons. You remember, the ones in the funvee in the first movie? He didn't give peace signs at any time before they were killed, and, if my somewhat fuzzy memory of the first movie is correct, he didn't do it at all afterwards. That was the last thing that one soldier did before dying trying to protect him, and to Stark it could be a reminder of all those who died by his weapons who should have been being protected by them.

Anyway, it's late (well, early) and I'm rambling, so I'm going to log off.