Dishonest Children "More Successful" in the Long-term.

[Big Orange]

Hmmmm, pretty disconcerting and depressing, even though this finding is inconclusive of proving that pre-school liars are necessarily going grow up to be sociopaths:

Lying children will grow up to be successful citizens
The earlier a child starts telling convincing lies the more likely they are to be a success in later life, new research suggests.

Researchers have found that the ability to tell fibs at the age of two is a sign of a fast developing brain and means they are more likely to have successful lives.

They found that the more plausible the lie, the more quick witted they will be in later years and the better their abiliy to think on their feet.

It also means that they have developed "executive function" - the ability to invent a convincing lie by keeping the truth at the back of their mind.

“Parents should not be alarmed if their child tells a fib,” said Dr Kang Lee, director of the Institute of Child Study at Toronto Universit who carried out the research.

“Almost all children lie. Those who have better cognitive development lie better because they can cover up their tracks. They may make bankers in later life.”

Lying involves multiple brain processes, such as integrating sources of information and manipulating the data to their advantage.

It is linked to the development of brain regions that allow “executive functioning” and use higher order thinking and reasoning.

Dr Lee and his team tested 1,200 children aged two to 16 years old.

A majority of the volunteers told lies but it is the children with better cognitive abilities who can tell the best lies.

At the age of two, 20 per cent of children will lie. This rises to 50 per cent by three and almost 90 per cent at four. The most deceitful age, they discovered, was 12, when almost every child tells lies.

The tendency starts to fall away by the age of 16, when it is 70 per cent.

As adulthood approaches, young people learn instead to use the less harmful “white lies” that everyone tells to avoid hurting people’s feelings.

Researchers say there is no link between telling fibs in childhood and any tendency to cheat in exams or to become a fraudster later in life.

Nor does strict parenting or a religious upbringing have any impact.

Dr Lee said that catching your children lying was not a bad hing but should be exploited as a " "teachable moment".

“You shouldn’t smack or scream at your child but you should talk about the importance of honesty and the negativity of lying," he told the Sunday Times.

"After the age of eight the opportunities are going to be very rare.”

The research team invited younger children — one at a time — to sit in a room with hidden cameras. A soft toy was placed behind them.

When the researcher briefly left the room, the children were told not to look. In nine out of 10 cases cameras caught them peeking.

But when asked if they had looked, they almost always said no. They tripped themselves up when asked what they thought the toy might be.

One little girl asked to place her hand underneath a blanket that was over the toy before she answered the question. After feeling the toy but not seeing it, she said: “It feels purple so it must be Barney.”

Dr Lee, who caught his son Nathan, three, looking at the toy, said: “We even had cameras trained on their knees because we thought their legs would fidget if they were telling a lie, but it isn’t true.”

Older children were set a test paper but were told they must not look at the answers printed on the back.

Some of the questions were easy, such as who lives in the White House. But the children who looked at the back gave the printed answer “Presidius Akeman” to the bogus question “Who discovered Tunisia?”

When asked how they knew this, some said they learnt it in a history class.

Telegraph.co.uk

[Nephtys]

There was an article in the recent Harvard Business Review regarding a study conducted in the proficiency of lying. With some 200-odd test subjects told to lie while under examination for those 'signs' of lying that usually occur such as different shrugging, involuntary lip movement or pupil dialation, individuals with more 'power' tended to lie with greater ability.

Individuals such as successful managers and supervisors were the most able as a whole for their age groups. Even younger people with greater authority in their day to day activities (university student council members and such) were better able to lie. So I'm really not surprised.

[Kuroji]

Well, sure. Has it ever occurred to anyone that people who are in high places at times tend to have traits that border on sociopathy and a blatant disregard for the well-being for anyone but themselves? Enron's a great example of this.

Sure, they'll be more effective in our society, because it's fostered this to an extent. But then all societies foster this sort of thing -- disregard your morals in favor of what gets the job done, and you'll be more likely to succeed.

[Norade]

Well, sure. Has it ever occurred to anyone that people who are in high places at times tend to have traits that border on sociopathy and a blatant disregard for the well-being for anyone but themselves? Enron's a great example of this.

Sure, they'll be more effective in our society, because it's fostered this to an extent. But then all societies foster this sort of thing -- disregard your morals in favor of what gets the job done, and you'll be more likely to succeed.

True to an extent, but it takes a certain empathy and creativity to tell a really good lie so I would guess it was the ability to read people and tell them what they want to hear that got these people advances. Thus these people may not be actively looking to fuck anybody and simply be looking for ways to advance in our social structure.

[Lagmonster]

Well, sure. Has it ever occurred to anyone that people who are in high places at times tend to have traits that border on sociopathy and a blatant disregard for the well-being for anyone but themselves?

That's not what is being argued here. It's not being dishonest that makes these kids more likely to succeed; it's the ability to be quick-witted and think on their feet. When you're young, that talent can be measured by how convincingly one lies. Obviously, that doesn't mean that the same mental talents must necessarily always be used for negative things once we're older in order for us to be successful.

[Starglider]

Lagmonster is correct. The supporting skills for lying well are constructing plausible fantasy realities and understanding other people's viewpoints, and in adulthood those become extremely useful skills in their own right. Also, being proficient with lying probably makes it easier to guess when other people are lying to you, and even dealing with probabilistic logic (the person has a head start on understanding multiple possible states of reality, as opposed to being able to accept only one 'truth' at a time).

[Kuroji]

Ahhh, I understand now. I stand corrected, in that case. I misinterpreted what they were trying to say.

[Temujin]

As a person who is too honest for their own good, I can agree with this. I've seen plenty of liars get far.

There was an article in the recent Harvard Business Review regarding a study conducted in the proficiency of lying. With some 200-odd test subjects told to lie while under examination for those 'signs' of lying that usually occur such as different shrugging, involuntary lip movement or pupil dialation, individuals with more 'power' tended to lie with greater ability.

Individuals such as successful managers and supervisors were the most able as a whole for their age groups. Even younger people with greater authority in their day to day activities (university student council members and such) were better able to lie. So I'm really not surprised.

The position also grants them a greater degree of confidence that lets them feel they can get away with lying, hence creating a vicious cycle in which they use said authority as both a shield and an enabler to get away with behaving however they want.

[Lord of the Abyss]

True to an extent, but it takes a certain empathy and creativity to tell a really good lie so I would guess it was the ability to read people and tell them what they want to hear that got these people advances.

Creativity yes, but not empathy. Psychopaths with no empathy at all can lie quite well.

[Alyrium Denryle]

True to an extent, but it takes a certain empathy and creativity to tell a really good lie so I would guess it was the ability to read people and tell them what they want to hear that got these people advances.

Creativity yes, but not empathy. Psychopaths with no empathy at all can lie quite well.

There is a difference. A person with empathy will lie well because they create a convincing one. A person without it will not react when they lie. It comes out seamlessly with none of the usual hallmarks of a lie.

Lies are not necessarily bad. A white lie that spares someone's feelings or comforts them is not harmful and can in fact be a good thing.