Four Tie Defenders vs Six Enterprise E's

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-17 11:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:
darthdavid wrote:Full impulse for fed ships in non emergancy situations is .25c. Any faster and the time dialation becomes a combat disadvantage and manuvering the ship becoms hard. At .9c a tie/d would appear to be moving sloooowly. The soverigns would have less of a challange hitting it at that speed than at say, .50c.
*listens for the sound of Einstein rolling over in his grave at the sound of Trekkies butchering his theories*

Seriously.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-18 12:07am

Well don't blame me, blame the half asleepedness. I live on the east coast and when it is grey all day and you don't get enough sleep your thought processcies break down. So sue me!

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-18 12:08am

It made sense at the time.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-18 12:14am

darthdavid wrote:Full impulse for fed ships in non emergancy situations is .25c. Any faster and the time dialation becomes a combat disadvantage and manuvering the ship becoms hard. At .9c a tie/d would appear to be moving sloooowly. The soverigns would have less of a challange hitting it at that speed than at say, .50c.

Source for this? They don't seem to move at high fractions of C in the episodes most of the time...

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-18 01:01am

One valid point in there. The faster you go the slower time goes for you so they don't move at extreme STL speeds because that dialates time and makes combat hard. So there was a little validity in my argument. And as a sorce, einstienian physics is my source.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-18 01:08am

darthdavid wrote:One valid point in there. The faster you go the slower time goes for you so they don't move at extreme STL speeds because that dialates time and makes combat hard. So there was a little validity in my argument. And as a sorce, einstienian physics is my source.

Actually, you've got it ass-backwards. Time slows down for you, but this does NOT mean that you are moving in an accelerated timeframe so that everything ELSE appears to be moving slowly. It means the exact opposite: if you travel very close to the speed of light for what appears like 1 year to you, we here on Earth might experience 100 years. In effect, 100 years goes by in what appears to be just 1 year for you.

Remember what I said about Einstein rolling over in his grave. You are mangling his theories. Please stop being mean to Einstein.

Eaglewood · Post by **Eaglewood** » 2003-02-18 01:20am

Time stuff gives me headaches.

Wong, you're basically saying going at .9c would mean that stuff will have plenty of time to attack the .9c ship or thing.... since the .9c traveler will not have quick reply times to whatever's happening in normal space?

Am I making any sense? Again, Time stuff messes up my mind, unless I spend a hour thinking and analyzing it.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-18 01:47am

Eaglewood wrote:Time stuff gives me headaches.

Wong, you're basically saying going at .9c would mean that stuff will have plenty of time to attack the .9c ship or thing.... since the .9c traveler will not have quick reply times to whatever's happening in normal space?

Am I making any sense? Again, Time stuff messes up my mind, unless I spend a hour thinking and analyzing it.

No. If you are going at .9c, you will have more time to respond to the same event going on at normal speed.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-18 02:13am

Eaglewood wrote:Wong, you're basically saying going at .9c would mean that stuff will have plenty of time to attack the .9c ship or thing.... since the .9c traveler will not have quick reply times to whatever's happening in normal space?

No, because the near-c traveller will be zipping by at nearly c; that is not plenty of time. But his perception of time will be altered so that light does not appear to be moving any faster than c, so 1 minute to you would be a few seconds to him (for example).

That's the natural outcome of relativity; if you are moving at 0.9c, you would think that light should appear to be moving at 0.1c, relative to you. But that is not the case; it still appears to be moving at c, because your perception of time has changed.

This is basically irrelevant to any discussion of targeting, however. "There are no preferred inertial frames of reference"- Albert Einstein. If you are moving at 0.9c relative to your opponent, your opponent is also moving at 0.9c relative to you.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-02-18 02:19am

There is one other thing at .9 c the size of the Tie Defender's length would become real tiny. I don't have time to do the Cacls no but it would shrink by a consideral margin.

Eaglewood · Post by **Eaglewood** » 2003-02-18 02:28am

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, Wong.

This reminds me of the "time-warp" from the Planet of the Apes movies. Charleston Heston spent, what, 6 months in his spaceship with his crew, while 2,000 years passed on Earth.

That's why I got confused.

I thought if something went at .9c or .9999999c time would slow down for that person so that person only experiences 6 months of his time with him not dying or becoming dust.... while everything else outside of the "field of effect" grows old, dies, changes, etc. over 2,000 years.

I can understand parallel realities, time paradoxes, but not this Einsteinian time travel.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-02-18 05:34pm

Please stop being mean to Einstein.

Hehehe...

Mr. Wong, you should make that the slogan for your webpage...

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-02-18 05:44pm

Wong protects the dead scientists constantly from that amazing force known simply as "Treknobabble".

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-02-18 09:53pm

Isolder74 wrote:There is one other thing at .9 c the size of the Tie Defender's length would become real tiny. I don't have time to do the Cacls no but it would shrink by a consideral margin.

44% of it's rest length, I believe.

Eaglewood · Post by **Eaglewood** » 2003-02-19 01:10am

How do you get that, Yoshi?

I'm no good at Mathematics or Rocket Science...

but if there was a field called "Conceputal Science" I might do ok in there. I can envision or think up feasible future technologies to research on, or develop by myself. Nothing like teleporters or "phased quantum actuator variance" ....babble babble babble yak yak....

I can think up of ways to actually integrate some modern technologies such as gyroscopes or pulse lasers, and turn them into some sci-fi stuff from say, 10 years from now. Not 300 like Star Trek, or 1,000 like Star Wars.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-02-19 01:27am

Darth Yoshi wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:There is one other thing at .9 c the size of the Tie Defender's length would become real tiny. I don't have time to do the Cacls no but it would shrink by a consideral margin.
44% of it's rest length, I believe.

done the calculations and it comes to 3.23 Meters. Original length 7.4 meters contraction of 43.59%

Formula
L=Lo(1-(v/c)^2)^1/2

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-19 02:57am

Eaglewood wrote:How do you get that, Yoshi?

I'm no good at Mathematics or Rocket Science...

but if there was a field called "Conceputal Science" I might do ok in there. I can envision or think up feasible future technologies to research on, or develop by myself. Nothing like teleporters or "phased quantum actuator variance" ....babble babble babble yak yak....

Actually, every meaningful concept in science can be expressed in equation form. When I was in third year, we joked that third-year engineering is basically eight different calculus courses, which was only a slight exaggeration. I imagine it's the same for people taking physics, although I believe scientists tend to be a little heavier on the algebra and lighter on the calculus.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-19 06:09am

How about Six Sovereigns vs. one Missle Boat? or maybe Four Assault Gunboats?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-19 06:12am

Darth Fanboy wrote:How about Six Sovereigns vs. one Missle Boat? or maybe Four Assault Gunboats?

What was the conclusion of the 6 SCS vs. the TIE/d?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-19 06:16am

I think its pretty clear that the TIE Defenders have this one wrapped up

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-19 06:26am

Darth Fanboy wrote:I think its pretty clear that the TIE Defenders have this one wrapped up

In that case then the 6 SCS really have no change against the Missile Boats. As for the Assault Guns they aren't very manueverable, so the 6 SCS may have a chance here.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-19 06:33am

Remember, I said Missle BOAT, implying one missle boat vs all six Sovs.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-19 06:48am

Darth Fanboy wrote:Remember, I said Missle BOAT, implying one missle boat vs all six Sovs.

That you did, but a Missile Boat is two things. A counter against the TIE/d and a capital ship killer.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-19 08:03am

ok so do you think the missle boat can shoot all of the Sovs down before being killed or what?

I think it depends on the armament, if its carrying heavy warheads along with the standard concussion missles then it could do it and make it back in time for Will & Grace. If it had only concussion missles that could be a more interesting fight.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-19 08:10am

Darth Fanboy wrote:ok so do you think the missle boat can shoot all of the Sovs down before being killed or what?

I think it depends on the armament, if its carrying heavy warheads along with the standard concussion missles then it could do it and make it back in time for Will & Grace. If it had only concussion missles that could be a more interesting fight.

It's payload of concusion missiles IIRC can get up to 120....divide by six....thats 20 a piece for the sovriegns.....

But the missile boats stats are only explored in games arent they?
I know the defenders turn up in some stackpole novels but the missile boats dont....

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Four Tie Defenders vs Six Enterprise E's

Good one ;)