Massive Gulf Of Mexico Oil Spill

[CaptainChewbacca]

Its a pressure differential. The oil is bounded by tight layers of rock pressing down with a great deal of force, and that force is squeezing the oil out of the broken pipe like air out of a whoppee cushion. Eventually, yes, the pressure will diminish and then at that point you'll just have a slow density separation.

[Sea Skimmer]

The key thing being that it could take 5 years or even longer for the pressure to decrease any serious extent. So we have about zero hope that the leak will do anything to slow itself down, right now we are just lucky that the drill pipe is still constricting the flow somewhat. If the well was damaged even more the flow rate could go much higher. They seem to have backed off the idea of clogging the blowout preventer assembly because of that risk.

[Admiral Valdemar]

BP have successfully used their ROV to perform the threading operation to the leaking riser pipe. They should be able to recover 2/3 of the leaking oil and deal with another minor leak nearby. This is a diagram of the operation.

However, there are indications that the leak may have caused more harm beneath the waves as plumes of submarine oil of large volume have been looked into. The surface effects may be far less pronounced than the ones below the waves.

[FSTargetDrone]

Heavy oil reaches Louisiana's shore:

Heavy oil hits Louisiana shore

By Matthew Bigg Matthew Bigg Wed May 19, 6:36 pm ET

VENICE, Louisiana (Reuters) – The first heavy oil from a giant Gulf of Mexico spill sloshed ashore in fragile Louisiana marshlands on Wednesday and part of the mess entered a powerful current that could carry it to Florida and beyond.

The developments underscored the gravity of the situation as British energy giant BP Plc raced to capture more crude gushing from a ruptured well a mile beneath the surface. The spill is threatening an ecological and economic disaster along the U.S. Gulf Coast and beyond.

"This wasn't tar balls. This wasn't sheen," Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal said after a boat tour to the southernmost point of the Mississippi River estuary. "This is heavy oil in our wetlands."

The marshes are the nurseries for shrimp, oysters, crabs and fish that make Louisiana the leading producer of commercial seafood in the continental United States and a top destination for recreational anglers. The United States has already imposed a large no-fishing zone in waters in the Gulf seen affected by the spill.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government's top weather forecaster said a "small portion" of light sheen from the giant oil slick has already entered the Loop Current, which could carry the oil down to the Florida Keys, to Cuba and even up the U.S. East Coast.

BP, its reputation on the line in an environmental disaster that could eclipse the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska, has marked some progress at siphoning some of the oil from the well, which ruptured after an April 20 explosion of the Deepwater Horizon rig that killed 11 workers.

BP said it is now siphoning about 3,000 barrels (126,000 gallons/477,000 liters) a day of oil, out of what the company estimated was a 5,000 barrels (210,000 gallons/795,000 liters) a day gusher. And BP could begin injecting mud into the well as early as Sunday in a bid to permanently plug the leak.

'NOT ROCKET SCIENCE'

A U.S. congressional panel heard testimony from experts who said the spill rate could be many-fold larger.

"This is not rocket science," said Steve Wereley, associate mechanical engineering professor at Purdue University, who pegged the spill's volume at about 70,000 barrels per day. "All outside estimates are considerably higher than BP's."

The development may still be welcome news for the company and its battered share price. BP shares closed down nearly 2 percent in London on Wednesday, extending recent steep losses.

The political fall-out also continues. The U.S. Interior Department said on Wednesday its embattled Minerals Management Service will be broken up into three separate divisions, as part of an effort to restructure the way the department handles offshore energy production.

Florida's tourism gained a respite when tar balls found on Keys beaches were shown not to come from the Gulf of Mexico oil leak, but officials said the $60 billion-a-year industry was already taking a beating from the month-old spill.

To the relief of Florida officials, the Coast Guard said laboratory tests had shown that 50 tar balls found this week on the Lower Keys -- a mecca for divers, snorkelers, fishermen and beach goers -- were not from the Gulf spill.

Local tourism authorities said damage had already been inflicted by the negative publicity linked to the spill.

"Even if we don't get even a gumball-sized tar ball down here in the next month, there has already been significant perception damage to Florida Keys and Florida tourism," said Andy Newman of the Monroe Tourism Development Council.

"We understand we are not out of the woods yet, that there's more oil out there," he said.

Tar balls have also been found on the Texas coast and were being tested but a Coast Guard official said it was "highly unlikely those tar balls in Texas are related to this spill."

The spill has also prompted rare talks between U.S. and Cuban officials in Havana, with forecasters predicting that oil could reach Cuban shores.

CRIME SCENE

Wildlife and environmental groups accused BP of holding back information on the real size and impact of the growing slick, and urged President Barack Obama to order a more direct federal government role in the spill response.

In prepared testimony for a congressional committee, National Wildlife Federation President Larry Schweiger said BP had failed to disclose results from its tests of chemical dispersants used on the spill. He also said it had tried to withhold video showing the true magnitude of the leak.

"The federal government should immediately take over all environmental monitoring, testing and public safety protection from BP," he said. "The Gulf of Mexico is a crime scene and the perpetrator cannot be left in charge of assessing the damage."

The Washington-based Center for American Progress published comments by its health experts Lesley Russell and Ellen-Marie Whelan saying the huge spill, and the dispersants being used against it, posed "insidious and unknown" human risks.

Noting the federal government had allowed BP to test the undersea use of dispersants, they added, "But are we letting the fox guard the hen house by letting the oil companies determine the safety of these cleaning agents?"

The spill has forced Obama to put a hold on plans to expand offshore oil drilling and has raised concerns about planned oil operations in other areas like the Arctic.

(Additional reporting by Deborah Zabarenko in Washington, Jane Sutton and Pascal Fletcher in Miami, Matthew Bigg in Louisiana, and Anna Driver, Chris Baltimore and Jeff Mason in Houston; Writing by Ed Stoddard and Pascal Fletcher; Editing by Todd Eastham)

[KlavoHunter]

Thank god they finally have managed to at least collect some of this. If the initial solution is 60% effective, the revised and improved version they deploy next will collect more; until we have a solution to end the spill.

... but if they're just straight-up burning it off on the spot... fuck...

[The Yosemite Bear]

except for the loss of animal and sea plant life

[Patrick Degan]

From this morning's Times-Picayune:



Heavy oil in the marshes of Plaquemines Parish.

[Alyrium Denryle]

That just made me sick to my stomach. Prof of mine did her doctoral work in those marshes. She is not a happy camper right now.

[FSTargetDrone]

Thank god they finally have managed to at least collect some of this. If the initial solution is 60% effective, the revised and improved version they deploy next will collect more; until we have a solution to end the spill.

... but if they're just straight-up burning it off on the spot... fuck...

What's happening in that video is the natural gas is being burned off because (as is my understanding) there is no other way to contain the gas in this situation, at least not easily or safely. Oil is not being burned on that ship, just gas.

[FSTargetDrone]

Some more pictures (uploaded by the Louisiana governor's office) of this nightmare's advance into the marshes are available here.





Look at this shit. I cannot see how this can be cleaned up now that it has hit the wetlands. If you dig, you can still find oil under the sand at the site of the Valdez incident in Alaska. And this is going to be much worse.

[Broomstick]

No, it cannot be cleaned up. Everything under that muck will die. As I said, BP has killed the marsh.

[FSTargetDrone]

I can't imagine a worse place for this kind of spill. A spill on dry land (say, a refinery accident or pipeline leak) is bad enough. There, perhaps, you have an easier time of shutting off the flow (without 5000 feet of water overhead) and could scoop up the oil-soaked earth. There is a hope of cleaning it up. This, this is just devilish. Short of storms spraying this crap all around, this must be the worst-case scenario. Or close to it.

There is speculation that some of this oil may reach Florida within the next week or so. Right now, experts are saying, "perhaps a sheen" of oil may appear, but who knows how much of the under-the-surface stuff reaches, say, The Keys.

By the way (almost forgot), does anyone have thoughts about this?

Kevin Costner may hold key to oil spill cleanup

The actor has invested 15 years and $24 million in a cleanup system involving centrifugal oil separators. BP and the Coast Guard plan to test six of the machines on the spill next week.

By Louis Sahagun, Los Angeles Times

May 21, 2010

The " Kevin Costner solution" to the worsening oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico may actually work, and none too soon for the president of Plaquemines Parish.

Costner has invested 15 years and about $24 million in a novel way of sifting oil spills that he began working on while making his own maritime film, "Waterworld," released in 1995.

Two decades later, BP and the U.S. Coast Guard plan to test six of his massive, stainless steel centrifugal oil separators next week. Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser welcomed the effort, even as he and Louisiana officials blasted the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for delays in approving an emergency plan to build sand "islands" to protect the bayous of his parish.

"It certainly is an odd thing to see a 'Kevin Costner' and a 'centrifugal oil separator' together in a place like the Gulf of Mexico," said actor Stephen Baldwin, who is producing a documentary about the oil spill and Costner's device. "But, hey, some of the best ideas sometimes come from the strangest places."

Meanwhile, "Avatar" director James Cameron has said that he would make his underwater vessels available, and actor-director Robert Redford appeared in a commercial, sponsored by the Natural Resources Defense Council, that uses the spill as a clarion call to move forward on clean energy.

It is not the first time Hollywood has come to the rescue with cutting-edge technology. Paul Winchell, a versatile ventriloquist and the voice of Tigger in " Winnie the Pooh," was also an inventor who patented an early artificial heart in the 1960s. In 1940, glamorous movie star Hedy Lamarr helped design an un-jammable communications system for use against Nazi Germany.

Costner was unavailable for comment. But his business partner, Louisiana attorney John Houghtaling, said, "Yes, Kevin is a star, but he took his stardom and wrote all the checks for this project out of his own pocket. This was one man's vision."

Details of any contractual relationship with BP were not disclosed. Asked if the actor would charge for use of the machines, Pat Smith, a spokesman for Costner, said, "We don't know yet. We haven't had that discussion yet. This is only a test trial."

Houghtaling said Costner bought the technology, which was originally developed with help from the Department of Energy, after the 1989 Exxon Valdez disaster and turned it over to a team of scientists and engineers for fine-tuning.

"The machines are essentially like big vacuum cleaners, which sit on barges and suck up oily water and spin it around at high speed," Houghtaling said. "On one side, it spits out pure oil, which can be recovered. The other side spits out 99% pure water."

If all goes according to plan, he said, "We could have as many as 26 machines dispatched throughout the gulf. Our largest machine is 112 inches high, weighs 2 ½ tons and cleans 210,000 gallons a day of oily water. We are hoping to have 10 machines that size out there — meaning we could potentially clean 2 million gallons of oil water a day."

That kind of talk has intrigued BP, the party responsible for the well blowout that caused an explosion on the Deepwater Horizon on April 20, killing 11 workers and triggering one of the largest oil spills in U.S. history. "BP has agreed to test Mr. Costner's machines," BP spokesman Mark Proegler said. "Of course, they need to meet regulations with respect to discharge."

With oil washing up on a portion of southeastern Louisiana's swampy edges, word of Costner's devices and their potential capabilities has triggered intense lobbying over where they should be stationed first.

High on the list of prospective sites is Plaquemines Parish, where "we've already lost 24 miles of marshland," Nungesser said. "Everything in it — frogs, crickets, fish and plant life — is dead and never coming back."

Houghtaling said he was working on a deployment strategy. "Some people want the machines placed out on the blue ocean where the oil is surfacing. Others want them placed along the coastline."

In the meantime, frustration escalated Thursday over the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers' delay in authorizing dredging to build a chain of barrier islands with sand to protect sensitive coastal areas.

Parish leaders, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal and Sen. David Vitter (R-La.), a member of the Senate committee that oversees the Corps, demanded immediate approval of the plan they estimated could cost about $50 million.

"The Corps just doesn't get it," Vitter said in a statement. "Thick oil has already gotten behind our existing barrier islands and is infiltrating our marsh. Yet the Corps has no sense of emergency."

Corps spokesman Eugene Pawlik said that the agency is using emergency rules to expedite the request, but that it still has to comply with national environmental laws, including soliciting comments from other agencies.

Nungesser dispatched an urgent request to the Obama administration to force the Corps to expedite its review process. He also reached out to Costner, the man of the hour in Louisiana's bayou country.

"I have Kevin Costner's cellphone number and I'm going to call him and ask him to hold a press conference about the Corps' lack of response in this time of emergency," Nungesser said. "He is a caring man, and people know and respect him. Maybe he can help us."

[MKSheppard]

On the 15th of May, DickB on HPCA posted this rumor that was making the rounds:

With appropriate caveats:

BP contracted Schlumberger (SLB) to run the Cement Bond Log (CBL) test that was the final test on the plug that was skipped. The people testifying have been very coy about mentioning this, and you'll see why.

SLB is an extremely highly regarded (and incredibly expensive) service company. They place a high standard on safety and train their workers to shut down unsafe operations.

SLB gets out to the Deepwater Horizon to run the CBL, and they find the well still kicking heavily, which it should not be that late in the operation. SLB orders the "company man" (BP's man on the scene that runs the operation) to dump kill fluid down the well and shut-in the well. The company man refuses. SLB in the very next sentence asks for a helo to take all SLB personel back to shore. The company man says there are no more helo's scheduled for the rest of the week (translation: you're here to do a job, now do it). SLB gets on the horn to shore, calls SLB's corporate HQ, and gets a helo flown out there at SLB's expense and takes all SLB personel to shore.

6 hours later, the platform explodes.

Pick your jaw up off the floor now. No CBL was run after the pressure tests because the contractor high-tailed it out of there. If this story is true, the company man (who survived) should go to jail for 11 counts of negligent homicide.

Now apparently this story has come out:

Link

BP hired a top oilfield service company to test the strength of cement linings on the Deepwater Horizon's well, but sent the firm's workers home 11 hours before the rig exploded April 20 without performing a final check that a top cementing company executive called "the only test that can really determine the actual effectiveness" of the well's seal.

A spokesman for the testing firm, Schlumberger, said BP had a Schlumberger team and equipment for sending acoustic testing lines down the well "on standby" from April 18 to April 20. But BP never asked the Schlumberger crew to perform the acoustic test and sent its members back to Louisiana on a regularly scheduled helicopter flight at 11 a.m., Schlumberger spokesman Stephen T. Harris said.

[FSTargetDrone]

SLB gets out to the Deepwater Horizon to run the CBL, and they find the well still kicking heavily, which it should not be that late in the operation.

What is "still kicking heavily"? Still operating in someway, clearly, but what does kicking here mean specifically?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

SLB gets out to the Deepwater Horizon to run the CBL, and they find the well still kicking heavily, which it should not be that late in the operation.

What is "still kicking heavily"? Still operating in someway, clearly, but what does kicking here mean specifically?

A kick is when the hydrostatic pressure of the formation fluids overcomes the weight of the drilling mud and starts flowing back up the wellbore. When it reaches the surface, that's what we call a blowout.

[Phantasee]

Maybe this can help Costner out. I heard he's turned to country music since his acting career isn't so hot (he's got a show here in Edmonton this summer).

[ShadowDragon8685]

So, the contrator group got on-site, found that it was doing some shit they really didn't like the look of, and told the company man on-site that he needed to shut the mother down immediately. He refused, and their response was to immediately abandon ship?


How was that not a warning bell to someone? When the guys responsible for making sure it's safe immediately abandon ship... Well, if I'd known, I'd have been seriously thinking about asking their chopper for a ride back, too. It's like those slogans from T-shirts, "I am a bomb disposal technician/nuclear reactor operator. If you see me running, try to keep up."


So, this is looking more and more like gross, horrifyingly negligent incompetance on BP's part... Wonderful. The blame game will be an amusing diversion from the horror stories when they start to really roll in.

[eion]

BP ROV feed.

For those who want to feel a little guilty every time they start their car, just click the link.

[FSTargetDrone]

Fire may be the only answer. Assuming anything is done at all:

Wetlands cleanup may be impossible

Removing oil could leave toxic stew lethal to wildlife, fish

By MATTHEW BROWN

The Associated Press

updated 7:48 p.m. ET, Sat., May 22, 2010

NEW ORLEANS - The gooey oil washing into the maze of marshes along the Gulf Coast could prove impossible to remove, leaving a toxic stew lethal to fish and wildlife, government officials and independent scientists said.

Officials are considering some drastic and risky solutions: They could set the wetlands on fire or flood areas in hopes of floating out the oil.

But they warn an aggressive cleanup could ruin the marshes and do more harm than good. The only viable option for many impacted areas is to do nothing and let nature break down the spill.

More than 50 miles of Louisiana's delicate shoreline already have been soiled by the massive slick unleashed after BP's Deepwater Horizon burned and sank last month. Officials fear oil eventually could invade wetlands and beaches from Texas to Florida. Louisiana is expected to be hit hardest.

Plaquemines Parish officials on Louisiana's coast discovered a major pelican rookery awash in oil on Saturday. Hundreds of birds nest on the island, and an Associated Press photographer saw that at least some birds and their eggs were stained with the ooze. Nests were perched in mangroves directly above patches of crude.

"Oil in the marshes is the worst-case scenario," said Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, the head of the federal effort to contain and clean up the spill.

Also on Saturday, BP told federal regulators it plans to stick with the main chemical dispersant it's been spraying in the open Gulf to break up oil before it reaches the surface. The Environmental Protection Agency had directed the company to look for less toxic alternatives. But BP said in a letter to the EPA that Corexit 9500, one of the chief agents used, "remains the best option for subsea application."

Oil that has rolled into shoreline wetlands coats the stalks and leaves of plants such as roseau cane — the fabric that holds together an ecosystem that is essential to the region's fishing industry and a much-needed buffer against Gulf hurricanes. Soon, oil will smother those plants and choke off their supply of air and nutrients.

In some eddies and protected inlets, the ochre-colored crude has pooled beneath the water's surface, forming clumps several inches deep.

With the seafloor leak still gushing hundreds of thousands of gallons a day, the damage is only getting worse. Millions of gallons already have leaked so far.

Coast Guard officials said Saturday the spill's impact now stretches across a 150-mile swath, from Dauphin Island, Ala. to Grand Isle, La.

Over time, experts say weather and natural microbes will break down most of the oil. However, the crude will surely poison plants and wildlife in the months — even years — it will take for the syrupy muck to dissipate.

Back in 1989, crews fighting the Exxon Valdez tanker spill — which unleashed almost 11 million gallons of oil into Alaska's Prince William Sound — used pressure hoses and rakes to clean the shores. The Gulf Coast is just too fragile for that: those tactics could blast apart the peat-like soils that hold the marshes together.

Hundreds of miles of bayous and man-made canals crisscross the coast's exterior, offering numerous entry points for the crude. Access is difficult and time-intensive, even in the best of circumstances.

"Just the compaction of humanity bringing equipment in, walking on them, will kill them," said David White, a wetlands ecologist from Loyola University in New Orleans.

Marshes offer a vital line of defense against Gulf storms, blunting their fury before they hit populated areas. Louisiana and the federal government have spent hundreds of millions rebuilding barriers that were wiped out by hurricanes, notably Katrina in 2005.

They also act as nursery grounds for shrimp, crabs, oysters — the backbone of the region's fishing industry. Hundreds of thousands of migratory birds nest in the wetlands' inner reaches, a complex network of bayous, bays and man-made canals.

To keep oil from pushing deep into Louisiana's marshes, Gov. Bobby Jindal and officials from several coastal parishes want permission to erect a $350 million network of sand berms linking the state's barrier islands and headlands.

That plan is awaiting approval from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. If large volumes of oil make it through passes, the cleanup will become far more difficult as oil spreads into the bayous and canals.

Smaller spills have been occurring in the marshes for decades. In the past, cleanup crews would sometimes slice out oiled vegetation and take it to a landfill, said Andy Nyman with Louisiana State University.

But with the plants gone, water from the gulf would roll in and wash away the roots, turning wetlands to open water.

Adm. Allen said that where conditions are right, an "in-situ burn" could be used to set oil-coated plants ablaze.

Nyman and other experts, though, warn it's trickier than simply lighting a fire. If the marsh is too wet, the oil won't burn. Too dry, the roots burn and the marsh can be ruined.

Representatives from BP PLC — which leased the sunken rig and is responsible for the cleanup — said Saturday that cleanup crews have started more direct cleanup methods along Pass a Loutre in Plaquemines Parish. Shallow water skimmers were attempting to remove the oil from the top of the marsh.

Streams of water could later be used in a bid to wash oil from between cane stalks.

In other cases, the company will rely on "bioremediation" — letting oil-eating microbes do the work.

"Nature has a way of helping the situation," said BP spokesman John Curry.

But White, the Loyola scientist, predicted at least short-term ruin for some of the wetlands he's been studying for three decades. Under a worst-case scenario, he said the damage could exceed the 217 square miles of wetlands lost during the 2005 hurricane season.

"When I say that my stomach turns," he said.

[Alyrium Denryle]

BP ROV feed.

For those who want to feel a little guilty every time they start their car, just click the link.

For those of you in favor of off-shore drilling, behold the wages of your position.























As an aside, I really do wish we did not have a provision in the constitution against crucifixion because this is what ought to occur:

The executives of BP, Transocean, and Haliburton, as well as their lobbyists and everyone involved with their regulation at the Mineral Management Service, and let us not forget the individual's who's decisions lead to this disaster (like the ones who did not notice the bad blowout preventer seal or refused to fix it etc) need to be taken to the gulf coast and scourged.

They then need to have their wounds cleaned with salt water (preferably oil contaminated), and be be made to carry the cross beams of the crosses they are to be crucified on to the I-10 where they will be nailed up in proper roman fashion (nailed in wrist and palm, lifted up to have the post inserted into the joint in the cross beam and then have their ankles nailed to the sides of the cross).

They should be arranged evenly spaced and facing the coastline they raped, and a sign posted on their cross saying "Behold Ye The Greedy, Corrupt and Negligent". English or latin, does not matter to me.

Unfortunately they will probably only get a slap on the wrist. Why? Because IIRC they pay into a large government subsidized fund so that they do not bear the full cost of a cleanup and are only on the hook for a paltry 70 million in civil liability. We do not even have the statutory authority to seize their assets and throw their asses in a federal "Pound me in the ass" prison. There probably will not be meaningful criminal probes into their profligate bribery in the MMS, and at the end of the day they (and the rest of the oil industry) will continue to get offshore drilling leases and will continue to bribe or fuck the regulators into not doing their jobs.

Maybe we still might be able to force them to pay royalties on every gallon they spill into the gulf, and make them get a retroactive Clean Water Act Section 404 permit to make them pay for restoring the entire coastal system they have destroyed from the ground up. Soils, plants, animals, everything. It will bankrupt them.

[MKSheppard]

For those of you in favor of off-shore drilling, behold the wages of your position.

*munches on delicious italian sub*

I'm sorry? Pictures of dead animals are supposed to make me feel queasy?

*snip internet toughguyism from Alyrium..hurf hurf lets crucify them hurf hurf*

And nice to know that Alyrium misrepresents the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund (OSLTF) like the flaming moron he is.

OSLTF

OSLTF is funded via a 5-cent-per-barrel tax on all petroleum in the US. It's not activicated however, until a company has spent $75 million in cleanup efforts; to prevent the fund from being drained by minor little pissant spills that occur. Once that oil company paid for cost is spent; then the OSLTF kicks in, with it's nice $1.6 to $2 billion fund capability.

and make them get a retroactive Clean Water Act Section 404 permit to make them pay for restoring the entire coastal system they have destroyed from the ground up. Soils, plants, animals, everything. It will bankrupt them.

Because you know in Alyrium HURF TUFFGUY land; ex post-facto retroactive laws are not unconstitutional?

[Alyrium Denryle]

*munches on delicious italian sub*

I'm sorry? Pictures of dead animals are supposed to make me feel queasy?

It would if you were not a miserable excuse for a human being.

*snip internet toughguyism from Alyrium..hurf hurf lets crucify them hurf hurf*

You need to reread the definition of internet toughguyism. Toughguyism is when someone uses the anonymity of the internet to say something like "If person did X I would shoot them". Not to say "Wow. What these people did is so wrong on so large a scale that the only punishment that is appropriate is crucifixion. Too bad that is illegal. What can we do? No, that wont happen... no not that. This could get done though under existing law"

Besides, I have said that the aforementioned individuals deserve crucifixion in public, sober. This automatically disqualifies me from Internet Toughguyism.

And nice to know that Alyrium misrepresents the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund (OSLTF) like the flaming moron he is.

OSLTF

OSLTF is funded via a 5-cent-per-barrel tax on all petroleum in the US. It's not activicated however, until a company has spent $75 million in cleanup efforts; to prevent the fund from being drained by minor little pissant spills that occur. Once that oil company paid for cost is spent; then the OSLTF kicks in, with it's nice $1.6 to $2 billion fund capability.

There is a reason I used the IIRC there, because I was not sure. Either way, how does that substantially alter the point that they are having their cleanup efforts subsidized at taxpayer expense. That is what the fund is afterall, an excise(sp) tax. That I did not recall the precise details is immaterial, particularly because I disclaimed it. Reading comprehension is not your specialty is it?

Because you know in Alyrium HURF TUFFGUY land; ex post-facto retroactive laws are not unconstitutional?

It is not retroactive in the sense that a judge would care. It is remedy to violation of a pre-existing law. Namely section 404 of the Clean Water Act which requires that those who destroy wetlands obtain a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers and then mitigate the loss of that wetland by creating, restoring, or enhancing an equivalent acreage of the same type of wetland in that same watershed which is protected from degradation by law. Generally there is a migitation ratio with these constructed wetlands to represent the failure rate and quality relative to a natural system when making wetlands from scratch, and is determined by the Army Corp. I dont have access to the necessary book right now, but this varries between 2:1 (2 acres mitigated for every 1 destroyed) to 6:1 depending on the type of wetland.

They have destroyed a huge amount of wetland without a permit. It is perfectly reasonable to expect them to comply with the law's provisions after the fact.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I should be furious. This situation is apalling in so many respects, but as somebody without the science background I simply cannot wrap my head around the numbers and the potential damage.

In the short term, what enrages me is BP goons running around trying to keep a lid on the situation. Several of my friends who fancy themselves journalist/documentary filmaker types have been harassed and intimidated by BP goons, often with the active collusion of local police and the Coast Guard. Why the hell are reporters being ordered off beaches full of tourists sunning themselves? The scope of this disaster will be revealed eventually. I suppose they want to keep the worst images off the air until this isn't front page news anymore.

Take a gander. (Bona fide journalists BTW. Not anybody I know.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UbtuLjE ... 3sxcj-RhFA

Seriously, what the fuck was that shit? Watch the clip before you tell me they were 'interfering' with cleanup efforts.

[Broomstick]

BP is afraid for its corporate life.

If they've killed not only the marshes and beaches of the Gulf, but killed off the entire Gulf of Mexico BP will be responsible for a disaster on par with Chernobyl. Have they actually done that? Damn if I know - I haven't the knowledge base, either facts or comprehension of the factors involved - to determine that. Regardless, the damage is extensive and horrific, even what we've seen so far and we know there is much more than what we see. Yes, the area will eventually recover life, but perhaps not in a human lifetime, or even several, and some things will be gone forever.

The BP powerful are trying to spin this - not so much in their favor, but for their own survival. Spin it so that the anger that will inevitably result will not hit them directly, make the case it was an unforeseeable accident, not really anyone's fault...

Don't forget - this is not, and will not, be solely a US disaster. This will affect Mexico and Cuba and Haiti (as if they needed more troubles!) and ANYTHING in or near the Gulf. Potentially more than that, if the oil reaches some of the major ocean currents and they fling it into the Atlantic.

If people, the average person in say, Louisiana, knew the full truth, really knew it both intellectually and on a deep-down visceral level what do you think would happen if, say, a BP exec walked down the street in, say New Orleans or some other Gulf town? Ugly, very ugly... and virtually no one would shed a tear.

Hence, the BP powerful want to hide the truth, the full truth, until they can get their assets safely stashed and themselves away, until they can cut deals and insulate themselves from the consequences of their acts or lack of action. They'd rather kill the entire ecosystem of the Gulf of Mexico and destroy the livelihood of millions, literally millions of people living near the Gulf, than face up to what they have done.

They don't give a flying fuck about sea turtles or dolphins. They don't give a flying fuck about their fellow human beings or rendering a large swatch of both land and ocean unfit for life for decades. They don't care - it's not malice or evil as we ordinarily think of it, it's callous indifference. They don't care about anything but themselves.

[Temujin]

It just keeps getting worse and worse. It's looking like by the time we get this under control, a good portion of the Gulf's ecosystem is going to be irreparably damaged. The only upside I can see (and its not much of one in the face of this tragedy) is that this may the stake through the heart that finally starts putting an end to the oil industry as we know it.