Doctor Who S05E08: "The Hungry Earth" [Spoilers]

[NecronLord]

Well, bizarrely they were called "homo reptillius". So apparently they are a human race.

That stood out for me, too. I could understand "Reptilius Sapiens" or something along those lines, but you can't have a reptile in the genus Homo. Linnean classifications do not work that way!

Unless of course, they actually are hominids, and they got into the past with time travel. Wouldn't be that far-fetched in damn Doctor Who. They have knowledge of Apes, somehow, after all.

Was that something from the original series that they decided to reference, thinking that continuity callbacks are more important than not mangling science, or it this an all-new brand of stupidity?

It's in the EU. Not the original series. And it's not really bothering me that much. Silurian is a nickname. Eocene is a nickname. Sea Devil is a nickname. Presumably this is too.

[Big Orange]

It's as bad as the Sontaran two-parter, possibly worse.

Are you serious? I might have to actually watch this one.

I thought Helen Raynor's Sontaran two-parter was actually the best early season two-parter before the "The Time of Angels"-"Flesh and Stone".

Chris Chibnall's best example of irredeemable dreck was "Cyberwoman". I quite liked "The Hungry Earth", I gave it a "4", quite Tom Baker-ish and such. Either way, what ever you subjectively think of this episode if you think it's awful or underrated, its viewer numbers stink:

The glorious weather across the UK on Saturday saw the series fall to the lowest overnight total since the series returned in 2005. 4.24 million watched on BBC One with an additional 0.30 million watching on BBC HD. The share remained consistent with 32.2% of the total audience.

Only 13.1 million were watching TV when Doctor Who started implying many were still out enjoying the hottest weekend of the year. The programme inherited an audience of 1.8 million viewers from Junior Apprentice and peaked with 4.8 million on BBC One.

The winner of the night was Over the Rainbow, with the results show topping the night with 6.2 million and the earlier show getting 5.8 million watching. Both Casualty and The National Lottery: In It to Win It 2012 beat Doctor Who with the programme coming fifth for the day. With Sunday's overnight figures to come Doctor Who is the 32nd most watched programme for the week. Against Doctor Who, ITV1 achieved 1.9 million for The Whole 19 Yards.

Final figures will be released next week and will include those who recorded the programme for viewing later. The lowest confirmed figure for the revived series so far, is 6.1 million for the Satan Pit in June 2006.

Link

I honestly think they broadcast this show at the wrong time of the year - it should be earlier on in Spring or mid to late Autumn. Thank Cthulu for the internets.

[Straha]

It's as bad as the Sontaran two-parter, possibly worse.

Are you serious? I might have to actually watch this one.

Gods above, I am. This shit could be slipped into Season 4 and you'd never notice. Case in point: One character goes from treating the doctor as an intruder who shouldn't be trusted near her computers to saying something like "The only person who has made any sense of anything is the DOCTOR! We all must listen to him and do exactly what he says!!!" in about fifteen minutes time in universe. About five on screen. There are actions which are just... inexplicable, and the mental acrobatics required to make the plot make sense so far just beggar belief. The premise is that this couple is drilling down 20+ kilometers under the earth in the middle of England. Their HQ, and control center, is a shack. They talk about being interested in minerals in the area, but there's no evidence of mining, excavation, or anything else. They're just drilling... straight down. Just 'cause, I guess. Also, the Silurians are able to project a shield over this town that blocks out the sun, to tunnel up under the drill without being detected and suck down humans into the earth, and they're able to shut off all power at a distance. But when the Doctor locks a Silurian inside a van they suddenly can't rescue her anymore and run away.


On the Silurians costume. I think that they're shit. What makes them shit isn't just that you can tell it's a human in a suit, or that you can see the eyes and nose and say "Hey! There's a human in there!" What makes it shit is the way it's used. The captured silurian girl runs, acts, curls up, walks, and moves just like a human would. When I first saw the scenes where the Doctor and her are talking under the church I assumed that they were going to go for some sort of "Silurian/Human Hybrid" trope, and when I realized that they weren't it made it all the worse. Instead, they try to get us to believe that this human in a suit, who is acting like a human in a suit in every way, is truly alien. If they'd spent time on better writing and directing and not on make-up they'd get a lot more out of this.

That said, the new aliens just don't look alien in the least. Compare:



And



One looks like a person, in clothing, expression and stance, who has a bad skin condition. The other an alien. Updating costumes is fine, and very welcome, what's not welcome is making the silurians look like shit.

[Plekhanov]

Well it was very silly but it managed to carry me along with it and I really rather enjoyed it.

I liked it when Nazrene clapped after the Doctor gave one of his inspiring speeches which nicely mocked the Doctor's rather tiresome habit of speechifying whilst at the very same time glorifying in his speechifying.

[Drooling Iguana]

I should add that Matt Smith continues to impress me, especially his ability to make a script as dismal and, frankly, god awful as this mildly bearable.

During the last four years I maintained that Tennant was a decent actor that was just given a lot of bad scripts, but episodes like this really show how a genuinely good actor can make even a bad script watchable. David Tennant was just a substandard actor who should never have been cast in the role of the Doctor.

[Straha]

I should add that Matt Smith continues to impress me, especially his ability to make a script as dismal and, frankly, god awful as this mildly bearable.

During the last four years I maintained that Tennant was a decent actor that was just given a lot of bad scripts, but episodes like this really show how a genuinely good actor can make even a bad script watchable. David Tennant was just a substandard actor who should never have been cast in the role of the Doctor.

Tennant was very... charismatic. When he was able to apply that charm, and RTD was trying for that charm constantly, he was perfectly cast for the role. When the script was awful, or just not written towards his strengths, he was up shit creek without a paddle, and the fandom suffered for it.


That said, Tennant is insanely popular with people, and I know someone who can't watch the series now because she thinks that Tennant was the Doctor, and anyone else is just parading around like Tennant. While I think that's incredibly asinine it shows that maybe Tennant was the 'right choice' for the Doctor.

[Stark]

I've noticed that too, and it stuns me. People say that 'Tennant is Doctor Who for a generation' and the like. Tennant could sell some drama very well, but he really struggled with the clunkers he worked with later. I guess I'll have to watch this stuff to see if this guy is more effective with the same low quality of scripts.

To steal a term, Tennant was great with whimsy. He generally sucked with pathos and he certainly couldn't pull off the absurd moral positions he was forced to take in later stories (largely because they were stupid).

[Crossroads Inc.]

I think the most abusrd thing I ever saw with Tennate was him trying to Act towards the whole "Im afraid to Die" business with Will.

I mean your a TIMELORD, you have "died" 9 times before you. None of your previous selves ever complained or gripped, and you expect us to Now buy that you somehow are having second guesses about your regeneration?

[Gramzamber]

I should add that Matt Smith continues to impress me, especially his ability to make a script as dismal and, frankly, god awful as this mildly bearable.

During the last four years I maintained that Tennant was a decent actor that was just given a lot of bad scripts, but episodes like this really show how a genuinely good actor can make even a bad script watchable. David Tennant was just a substandard actor who should never have been cast in the role of the Doctor.

I disagree completely. Tennant is one of my favourite Doctors and I think he always remained watchable even in absolute drek like "Journey's End".
Sure the sanctimoniousness could be grating, but that was the writer's fault, and something Matt Smith has had to suffer with on occassion too, though thankfully nowhere near RTD levels.

I think the most abusrd thing I ever saw with Tennate was him trying to Act towards the whole "Im afraid to Die" business with Will.

I mean your a TIMELORD, you have "died" 9 times before you. None of your previous selves ever complained or gripped, and you expect us to Now buy that you somehow are having second guesses about your regeneration?

I seriously could not sit through that any longer at the point where Wilf locks himself in the Wrath of Khan radiation booth and the Doctor starts bitching again.
I shut off the TV and had to find out later that's not in fact where he dies but has time for a grand tour of all his companions after massive radiation poisoning.
Yeah whatever.

[Drooling Iguana]

Tennant was very... charismatic. When he was able to apply that charm, and RTD was trying for that charm constantly, he was perfectly cast for the role. When the script was awful, or just not written towards his strengths, he was up shit creek without a paddle, and the fandom suffered for it.

But that's the point. Smith is able to make his character compelling even when the script gives him little to work with. Eccleston was able to do this as well. In both cases, I think it came down to the fact that they were both able to keep the core of their character in mind and have his reactions to different situations be believable even when the story itself didn't make a lot of sense. Tennant would just jump between about half a dozen over-the-top personnas seemingly at random, with no regard to maintaining a consistent character. Tennant needed a good script to put in a good performance. Eccleston didn't, and Smith doesn't seem to.

[Twigler]

That said, Tennant is insanely popular with people, and I know someone who can't watch the series now because she thinks that Tennant was the Doctor, and anyone else is just parading around like Tennant. While I think that's incredibly asinine it shows that maybe Tennant was the 'right choice' for the Doctor.

I was worried I would fall into this camp since I enjoyed Doctor Tennant running around with that mad glare in his eyes, but I have to say that Matt Smith is doing a fantastic job so far. Both have this "I might look human, but that doesn't mean I will act like one" spiel very well down.

As to this episode, I really hope the second part will clear up some of the silliness that others have already pointed out. These Silurians must be a human-Silurian hybrid otherwise there's no reason for them to rob graves, and no excuse for them looking so human.
Likewise I really hope the "wwargh, we hate you hoomans, you will die!" attitude gets nuanced a bit. I don't want an easy way out for the Doctor on this one because the dilemma of who has rights to the earth is the part that makes this an interesting set-up.

[Shroom Man 777]

I liked it! It was pretty alright, the script wasn't anything fancy, hell it's practically cheap B-movie level, but Smith's acting is pretty convincing and the other guys were also pretty good and non-shit.

Doctor Destro will be the greatest of the new Doctors. Jesus Christ, man, while you've got Tennant bitching about guns and Smith hating on shotguns, Doctor Destro was totally cool with taking a big fuckoff raygun and blowing Daleks to pieces with em.

[DarkSilver]

Gave it a three, some silliness with the new Salurians - and the annoyance of how they portrayed the drilling rig (when you spend your professional career working on those things, you tend to notice everything insanely wrong with it), but overall, it was a decent setup, hopefully the second part will fix it up right.

Eccelsson was my favorite of the NuWho Doctors, though Smith is indeed coming along as a close second. Tennant had his moments (The Christmas Invasion, School Reunion, Girl in the Fireplace, Blink, Midnight all for example) - but his Doctor was to.......out there at times, and he suffered during the dreck episodes. So far, even the weak episodes of the new season has Smith still turning out decent performances, and Eccelsson was smashing even in his weaker scripts.

[Stark]

Eccleston could sell a 900 year old alien having a tiff over housekeys with his 19 year old bogan flatmate without it being absurd or weakening the character.

He's a pretty good actor.

[PREDATOR490]

The anti-gun preaching from the Doctor is really getting annoying but this episode took it even further...

*Lady brings in arm full of weapon, club, gun, hammer, cricket bat.*

Doctor: What are those ?

(What do you think it is idiot ?)

Ambrose: Like you said, every little helps.

Doctor: No, No Weapons. Its not the way I do things

(Really ?, So a gun didnt save your life against the Weeping Angels, right ?
Its not like you have used and made weapons before, right ?
Its not like your trying to setup a defence against an unknown foe, right ?)

Ambrose: Well you said we were supposed to be defending ourselves.

Doctor: Oh Ambrose, your better than this. I'm asking nicely
*pause, look from the Doctor*
Put them away.

(The way he phases this makes it seem like he is actually THREATENING her. "Put them away or else".
Note: The Doctor has no idea whats coming for them and people have been taken. This lady has lost her husband amoung them and the Doctor his companion.
Thus, the Doctor is threatening someone for even thinking about defending themselves. Of course, the Doctor ends up being a complete moron anyway)

*Doctor walks away leaving lady with weapons, later its revealed she took one*

(Wonder whats gonna happen with that weapon eh ?)


After this kind of performance I'm curious why the Doctor allowed modified Spitfires to go up against a Dalek Saucer. He is against weapons isnt he ?
I'm all for the Doctor's stance on trying to be 'anti-gun' but this new trend in making him literally get pissy at ANYONE who uses a WEAPON is going too far. I thought we had seen the last of that with the current season episodes showing the Doctor more than willing to hit, shoot or otherwise employ weapons.

OH... right, this is one of those episodes where the weapon will turn out to be the 'bad' kind and make the Doctor right. Of course when you consider the situation the Doctor had no idea what was coming or that weapons wouldnt be needed... unless of course hes been reading the script.

*Sigh*

[Shroom Man 777]

I think it could be explained in that he has an inkling of the situation at hand and didn't want the people exacerbating the already shitty situation with the Silurians by killing one of them and thus provoking a war. Of course, this was BEFORE it was revealed that the bad guys are Silurians, but maybe the Doctor was already suspecting it was them and stuff because he's totally smarts and stuff. And maybe he knows that against a foe who can tunnel twenty million kilometers to the surface while creating a forcefield and switching the sun off and stuff, guns would probably not do any good anyway and in his long experience simple firearms haven't really solved any problems and for him it's always solving shit through technobabulations or through cunning plots and stuff that don't really require guns to be used at all (I mean, he didn't even have to shoot the Glow Globe in that Weeping Angels episode).

[Revy]

As bad as the Sontaran two-parter was, I actually loved the bit where UNIT - who have had to listen to the Doctor neenering them about how useless they are and their guns are - get their act together, overcome the bullet negating tech by themselves, and start blasting the shit out of the Sontarans without the Doctors help or say so. Sure, the Doctor still saves the world and defeats them with a techbabble device, but it was a refreshing change to see the good guys just shooting the bad guys and winning.

[mr friendly guy]

As bad as the Sontaran two-parter was, I actually loved the bit where UNIT - who have had to listen to the Doctor neenering them about how useless they are and their guns are - get their act together, overcome the bullet negating tech by themselves, and start blasting the shit out of the Sontarans without the Doctors help or say so. Sure, the Doctor still saves the world and defeats them with a techbabble device, but it was a refreshing change to see the good guys just shooting the bad guys and winning.

The problem with that was that they had the Doctor psych the audience up about how badass the Sontarans were, then to have them defeated so easily by our weapons seem like a let down. Now if there was no reason why they should be such tough guys then yeah, humans just shooting at them works nicely.

Now onto the no weapons bit, it is getting tiresome. However in universe its easy enough to explain, because the Doctor was trying to rig up a device to stun the intruders. So he seemed overly optimistic that he could save them without killing anybody, whereas a person using a potentially lethal weapon could worsen things. That of course doesn't excuse the fact that they still should have lethal weapons in case plan A fails. That being said, no one has died just yet, so the Doctor may still be able to save the day without deaths.

[Revy]

To be fair though, one of the weapons the lady got was a taser. Now granted a taser can kill, and we don't know what effect it might have on these things, but it is generally considered a non-lethal weapon. It's bad enough the Doctor being opposed to lethal weapons, but surely he shouldn't take issue with something designed to stun and incapacitate? Come to think of it, why doesn't the Doctor just carry some futuristic stun gun? Something like the Wraith stunners or Zat guns from Stargate? I guess that would make things too easy.

[mr friendly guy]

Case in point: One character goes from treating the doctor as an intruder who shouldn't be trusted near her computers to saying something like "The only person who has made any sense of anything is the DOCTOR! We all must listen to him and do exactly what he says!!!" in about fifteen minutes time in universe. About five on screen.

How is this different from Tom Baker making some claims about aliens and the humans reluctantly listen to what he says, whilst David Duchovony talks about aliens in his uncharismatic mumbling voice and people just laugh at him. The Doctor and the actors who play him manage a bit of charisma and charm and stupid humans listen. At least in this episode Matt Smith's doctor at least demonstrated some superior knowledge like how that the humans failed to detect those tunnels despite drilling for ages, while he detected it in a few minutes. This gives the impression that he at least knows more than the humans do.

Also, the Silurians are able to project a shield over this town that blocks out the sun, to tunnel up under the drill without being detected and suck down humans into the earth, and they're able to shut off all power at a distance. But when the Doctor locks a Silurian inside a van they suddenly can't rescue her anymore and run away.

I thought it was implied that they pulled out because the Doctor now has a hostage. For all the Silurians know those primitive apes might just shoot her in cold blood at the first sign of trouble.

On the Silurians costume. I think that they're shit. What makes them shit isn't just that you can tell it's a human in a suit, or that you can see the eyes and nose and say "Hey! There's a human in there!" What makes it shit is the way it's used. The captured silurian girl runs, acts, curls up, walks, and moves just like a human would. When I first saw the scenes where the Doctor and her are talking under the church I assumed that they were going to go for some sort of "Silurian/Human Hybrid" trope, and when I realized that they weren't it made it all the worse. Instead, they try to get us to believe that this human in a suit, who is acting like a human in a suit in every way, is truly alien. If they'd spent time on better writing and directing and not on make-up they'd get a lot more out of this.

LOL. Look its a purely subjective thing I reckon. However if I accepted Leonard Nimoy with long pointy ears is an alien in Star Trek and Liv Tyler with pointy ears is an Elf, then a human with at least that much make up on looks a hell of a lot more alien than those examples and don't really have a problem with that, aside from the fact that she is reptilian or someshit but she has mammaries. And yes it does look less alien than the Silurians of old, but at least they explained it away.

Edit - corrected some of what I wrote earlier as it didn't come out right.

[Straha]

Case in point: One character goes from treating the doctor as an intruder who shouldn't be trusted near her computers to saying something like "The only person who has made any sense of anything is the DOCTOR! We all must listen to him and do exactly what he says!!!" in about fifteen minutes time in universe. About five on screen.

How is this different from Tom Baker making some claims about aliens and the humans reluctantly listen to what he says, whilst David Duchovony talks about aliens in his uncharismatic mumbling voice and people just laugh at him. The Doctor and the actors who play him manage a bit of charisma and charm and stupid humans listen. At least in this episode Matt Smith's doctor at least demonstrated some superior knowledge like how that the humans failed to detect those tunnels despite drilling for ages, while he detected it in a few minutes. This gives the impression that he at least knows more than the humans do.

The difference is that the responses to Tom Baker's doctor and Agent Mulder MADE SENSE. This Doctor inspiring Fanatic loyalty in five minutes when all he's done is cock about, act like a deranged lunatic talking about jungle planets, and lose his companion DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If the woman said something like "Look, we've got nothing else we can do and he's got some sort of plan... so let's listen to what he has to say" or "Does anyone besides the man in the bow-tie have any ideas?" that'd have been plausible. What she said, especially when she said he was 'making sense,' was utterly fucking retarded.

Also, the Silurians are able to project a shield over this town that blocks out the sun, to tunnel up under the drill without being detected and suck down humans into the earth, and they're able to shut off all power at a distance. But when the Doctor locks a Silurian inside a van they suddenly can't rescue her anymore and run away.

I thought it was implied that they pulled out because the Doctor now has a hostage. For all the Silurians know those primitive apes might just shoot her in cold blood at the first sign of trouble.

Except at the end of the episode we find out they can suck the TARDIS under the Earth. This means that they could easily have done the same thing to the Minivan, yet they didn't. Why not? Bad writing.

LOL. Look its a purely subjective thing I reckon. However if I accepted Leonard Nimoy with long pointy ears is an alien in Star Trek and Liv Tyler with pointy ears is an Elf, then a human with at least that much make up on looks a hell of a lot more alien than those examples and don't really have a problem with that, aside from the fact that she is reptilian or someshit but she has mammaries. And yes it does look less alien than the Silurians of old, but at least they explained it away.

Re-read what I'm saying. I accepted Nimoy as an alien because HE ACTED LIKE AN ALIEN. I accepted Liv Tyler as being non-human because she acted like an elf. This Silurian girl? She acts like a human, down to the facial expressions. This entire costume change was designed to make them look MORE Human. I was just re-watching Doctor Who and the Silurians, and as awful as those costumes were (and my gods were they awful, even worse than the Doctor's misogyny) I'd rather have them back than these "Human with skin condition" ones.

[Srelex]

]

The difference is that the responses to Tom Baker's doctor and Agent Mulder MADE SENSE. This Doctor inspiring Fanatic loyalty in five minutes when all he's done is cock about, act like a deranged lunatic talking about jungle planets, and lose his companion DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If the woman said something like "Look, we've got nothing else we can do and he's got some sort of plan... so let's listen to what he has to say" or "Does anyone besides the man in the bow-tie have any ideas?" that'd have been plausible. What she said, especially when she said he was 'making sense,' was utterly fucking retarded.

Perhaps she meant making sense as in he was the only one coming up with any sort of plan? Or may she was just trying to latch onto some sort of hope for herself...real people don't always act coldly logical in such situations, as it happens.

Except at the end of the episode we find out they can suck the TARDIS under the Earth. This means that they could easily have done the same thing to the Minivan, yet they didn't. Why not? Bad writing.

The Doctor mentioned that they locked onto the TARDIS's magnetic signature or something--perhaps a minivan was something they can't lock onto? Did they even say they had her precise location anyway?

[Straha]

Perhaps she meant making sense as in he was the only one coming up with any sort of plan? Or may she was just trying to latch onto some sort of hope for herself...real people don't always act coldly logical in such situations, as it happens.

Except she went from being a scientist treating the Doctor with suspicion and disdain to treating him like the motherfucking Messiah... in five minutes. I'm not asking for anything more challenging than internally consistent characterization. Is that really too much to ask for?

The Doctor mentioned that they locked onto the TARDIS's magnetic signature or something--perhaps a minivan was something they can't lock onto? Did they even say they had her precise location anyway?

If they knew to stop their goings on the VERY MOMENT she was taken prisoner they must have had a pretty good idea of her location. Considering they had already drilled up to nearby the van and were able to move underneath the surface with some alacrity before I think it makes sense for them to go "Oh well. They got her in a van. Let's get the Van."

And, frankly, when you have to make excuses like this for why the antagonists are acting the way they are in the episode it's another sign of BAD WRITING. Even if some sort of flimsy justification for why the Silurians didn't just grab her and go can be found, it doesn't change my original point which is that this episode the writing for this episode is, more or less, crap on a crap sandwich.

[mr friendly guy]

The difference is that the responses to Tom Baker's doctor and Agent Mulder MADE SENSE.

Er, Tom Baker's Doctor also also convinced humans to respond to his weird theories that aliens are sabotaging oil rigs in 'Terror of the Zygons" with nothing more than a mocking smile in a short space of time, like one scene. Its his charisma man.

This Doctor inspiring Fanatic loyalty in five minutes when all he's done is cock about, act like a deranged lunatic talking about jungle planets, and lose his companion DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If the woman said something like "Look, we've got nothing else we can do and he's got some sort of plan... so let's listen to what he has to say" or "Does anyone besides the man in the bow-tie have any ideas?" that'd have been plausible. What she said, especially when she said he was 'making sense,' was utterly fucking retarded.

I guess we must have a different scale for fanaticism then, but I digress. The Doctor did at least demonstrate something the humans failed to do, ie detect those Silurian tunnels demonstrating that he at least knows more than them. The other times he gave the impression that he at least could figure out what was going on by making pronouncements about what was going on. For all the humans know it could be utter showmanship and he is talking out of his arse (most probably not though), but showman ship works on some people.

If trained scientists in real life can believe ID makes sense than its not inconceivable to me that trained scientists in DW believes a man sprouting things unknown to human science makes sense as well.

Except at the end of the episode we find out they can suck the TARDIS under the Earth. This means that they could easily have done the same thing to the Minivan, yet they didn't. Why not? Bad writing.

If I had to rationalise it, the Doctor did mention that the TARDIS was straining their tunneling because it was too big which was why it ended up in the wrong spot. The minivan is a bit bigger and perhaps by the time they decided to try tunneling for it risks be damned, the prisoner had already been moved. But thats just a guess.

[Straha]

To be fair though, one of the weapons the lady got was a taser. Now granted a taser can kill, and we don't know what effect it might have on these things, but it is generally considered a non-lethal weapon. It's bad enough the Doctor being opposed to lethal weapons, but surely he shouldn't take issue with something designed to stun and incapacitate?

Especially not considering that the last time the Doctor confronted Silurians he gassed an entire colony of them. He didn't want to, and he didn't have any other options but he still gassed an entire colony of Silurians. Sort of takes away from his "We're better than that! Always." act and makes you think he'd know to have contingency plans.