The worst TV sci-fi ending ever

[Thanas]

I'm rewatching all of Andromeda currently and am at season 4 and will go all the way to Season 5.

Strangely I found Season 3 a sinker in quality but compared to Season 4 its at least LUCID.

However, the ending of S5 is extremely stupid beyong words and I can still remember it due to the utter confusion that season brings.

There are no words to express my contempt for Bob Engels and the utter group of morons that destroyed the series.

I read the cast of Andromeda tried to get a spin-off without Dylan Hunt... that might have actually been interesting without Kevin Sorobo wanking. Sadly it didnt happen.

This is the first I ever heard of it....are you sure? I kinda think I am pretty well versed what went on in the fandom and the media and I never heard of this.

[PREDATOR490]

Andromeda

Not a reliable source mind you so possibly not true which is a shame or a god-send depending on wether or not writing improved.

[Thanas]

Andromeda

Not a reliable source mind you so possibly not true which is a shame or a god-send depending on wether or not writing improved.

TBH, I'd rather it had not happened. I mean, we already got the Dylan of S1 and 2, who was absolutely central to the story. Without him, Rommie loses almost all of her character arcs, the main story loses focus etc....so a spinoff would really only make sense if they got the main writers back, which was not going to happen, so I'd file it under godsend....

[Gramzamber]

Dylan was never the problem anyway. Yeah the Dylan-wank was idiotic, but that was a core writing problem, and it wasn't the only one.
Every character was mismanaged, the story was an incoherent babbling mess, especially the interminable bar fight that was season 5.

[Thanas]

Dylan was never the problem anyway. Yeah the Dylan-wank was idiotic, but that was a core writing problem, and it wasn't the only one.

It was the most emblematic of them though regarding the characters. Before, everybody had something to do. With Dylan becoming the great saviour (tm) this cut a lot into the other characters.

Every character was mismanaged, the story was an incoherent babbling mess, especially the interminable bar fight that was season 5.

No doubt about that.

[PREDATOR490]

Personnally, I found S1 - 3 lucid.
S3 tends to sink pretty badly at the end but even at the finale it made sense.

S4... the very first episode feels completely broken and it just keeps on a disjointed track with more Abyss bullshit, Dylan wank and Trance suddenly coming to the fore as 'super god'. I'm currently at 'The World Turns All Around Her' and am finding it increasingly difficult to follow what the hell is going on or even caring to try.

S5... I'll be watching it eventually if I can slog through the rest but I can remember it well enough to know the desire to skip episodes will be exceptionally high. Taking a Sci-Fi show based around a ship and then removing that ship was perhaps the most stupid decision ever.

Trance and Dylan are the worst characters for being pure wank and stupid. Frankly, it seems like Andromeda was running on an increasingly watered down version of what S1-2 were about but then S4 - 5 just break off into an insane tangent of stupidity.

Of course that ends up with Heart of the Journey and Dylan randomly saying he has won because it seems they had no idea how to actually do anything to end the show.

[Thanas]

Personnally, I found S1 - 3 lucid.
S3 tends to sink pretty badly at the end but even at the finale it made sense.

S3 made no sense to me. Especially with the characters not being the same and episodes like Delenda Est.

[PREDATOR490]

Personnally, I found S1 - 3 lucid.
S3 tends to sink pretty badly at the end but even at the finale it made sense.

S3 made no sense to me. Especially with the characters not being the same and episodes like Delenda Est.

The season is stupid and sinks to the 'mindless action' crutch to fill time more often than not but it seems to try and have a link to whats happened before.

If the Wheel is Fixed - Another disjointed season opener but still more lucid than S4 to me
Shards of Rimni - Standalone episode, dull episode
Mad to be Saved - Standalone episode, I liked it though
Cui Bono - John Delancie returns, stupid episode but it's reaching back to S1
The Lone and Level Sands - Good episode, good character piece
Slipfighter the Dogs of War - Standalone episode, dull episode, this episode seems like an excuse to showcase their slipfighter scenes and a prelude to Point of the Spear.
The Leper's Kiss - Standalone episode, Garbage
For Whom the Bell Tolls - Horrid garbage
And Your Heart Will Fly Away - Standalone episode, Garbage
The Unconquerable Man - Pretty good episode
Delenda Est - Horrid garbage.
The Dark Backward - Standalone character episode for Trance, I liked it.

I found 'The Dark Backward' pretty interesting if only for the fact it is one of the few major charactor pieces Trance gets before S4 and 5 destroy her completely. Story is still kinda dumb but the goal was really to show Trance's perception of things. Would have been a good S1 or 2 episode to do so people could understand her a bit better.

The Risk-All Point - Standalone episode, Garbage
The Right Horse - Standalone episode, Garbage
What Happens to a Rev Deferred - Standalone Episode, tying up a loose thread so I let it slide since its mostly reflections on Rev from Season 1 - 2.

Point of the Spear - Pretty good episode for eye-candy with plenty of battles and the like. Unfortunatly, this episode is the last gasp of decency before the plunge into complete shit.

Vault of the Heavens - Horrid garbage, Dylan is awesome wank
Deep Midnight's Voice - Horrid garbage, Dylan is awesome wank
The Illusion of Majesty - Horrid garbage, although Tyr is kinda funny in this
Twilight of the Idols - Horrid but I like Ironside's cameo
Day of Judgement, Day of Wrath - I liked it and found it a pretty good episode for the cameos and Avatar action
Shadows Cast by a Final Salute - I find the episode fairly decent until the episode seems to change its mind about letting Tyr follow through on his grand plan. Then it just jumps to 'the Commonwealth is falling' track which is so out of place its hard to make sense of what's going on.

[Thanas]

TIf the Wheel is Fixed - Another disjointed season opener but still more lucid than S4 to me

It is not only disjointed. It is downright stupid. Along with Dylan wanked to obscene stuff and Rommie just acting stupid.

Shards of Rimni - Standalone episode, dull episode

Utter garbage IMO. Clicheed and just illogical.

Mad to be Saved - Standalone episode, I liked it though

I found the part of "nutters do X" utterly cringeworthy.

Cui Bono - John Delancie returns, stupid episode but it's reaching back to S1

It made no sense. Suddenly the guy loves Beka? UGH.

The Lone and Level Sands - Good episode, good character piece

Indeed.

Slipfighter the Dogs of War - Standalone episode, dull episode, this episode seems like an excuse to showcase their slipfighter scenes and a prelude to Point of the Spear.

It was a stupid attempt to take the Iraq war and do it into the Andromeda context. No sense and I hated it for the jingoism.

The Leper's Kiss - Standalone episode, Garbage
For Whom the Bell Tolls - Horrid garbage
And Your Heart Will Fly Away - Standalone episode, Garbage

No argument there.

The Unconquerable Man - Pretty good episode

I found it a good character piece. Especially showing how Rhade would have acted....

Delenda Est - Horrid garbage.

Utter Horrible garbage.

The Dark Backward - Standalone character episode for Trance, I liked it.

I found 'The Dark Backward' pretty interesting if only for the fact it is one of the few major charactor pieces Trance gets before S4 and 5 destroy her completely. Story is still kinda dumb but the goal was really to show Trance's perception of things. Would have been a good S1 or 2 episode to do so people could understand her a bit better.

I found it stupid in the sense that it showed Trance having only a limited number of choices, when we know that is not true.

The Risk-All Point - Standalone episode, Garbage
The Right Horse - Standalone episode, Garbage
What Happens to a Rev Deferred - Standalone Episode, tying up a loose thread so I let it slide since its mostly reflections on Rev from Season 1 - 2.

These are all garbage IMO - especially that star business. UGH.

Point of the Spear - Pretty good episode for eye-candy with plenty of battles and the like. Unfortunatly, this episode is the last gasp of decency before the plunge into complete shit.

Agreed.

Vault of the Heavens - Horrid garbage, Dylan is awesome wank
Deep Midnight's Voice - Horrid garbage, Dylan is awesome wank

The second one is pretty good, if only for the technological implications of letting AIs pilot slipstream and the tactical advantage that would bring.

The Illusion of Majesty - Horrid garbage, although Tyr is kinda funny in this

Yeah, that sucked.

Twilight of the Idols - Horrid but I like Ironside's cameo
Day of Judgement, Day of Wrath - I liked it and found it a pretty good episode for the cameos and Avatar action

Twilight of the Idols is actually pretty good for the dialogue and technological implication. And it has the priceless girl/warship exchange.

The latter was pretty stupid because a lot of things were made that made no sense, like Gabriel being overpowered and underpowered compared to whom he was fighting. Also, why did he leave Harper alive?

Shadows Cast by a Final Salute - I find the episode fairly decent until the episode seems to change its mind about letting Tyr follow through on his grand plan. Then it just jumps to 'the Commonwealth is falling' track which is so out of place its hard to make sense of what's going on.

Indeed. It also does not make sense for Tyr to sacrifice nearly everything just for revenge....and some united fiefdom with no real powerbase.

[Skylon]

Ok, I haven't seen BSG at all, but regarding the sudden rejection of technology because of evil robots being evil (or something), isn't that pretty much the motivation for Dune's Butlerian Jihad?

With the obvious caveat that in Dune they reject AIs, but do not act as pack of morons and get rid of the rest of their technology (And I'm betting that, in universe, had mentats not been possible, they would have kept using computers to some extent).

In Dune that is also presented as history. We don't see it happen in real time, and leaves the reader to imagine an event happening over a long period as a massive conflict, or sudden violent revolution.

BSG's sudden rejection of technology was:
Lee: "Hey, let's get rid of this tech shit."
EVERYONE: "Okay."

After four seasons of the Fleet bitching and moaning, and nearly killing each other over water, politics, martial law, labor strikes, abortion rights and who knows what else to have them all suddenly seem to agree on something as big as that was pretty damned contrived. I'm not questioning the idea as some do. As far as the show's themes go, it does make some sense. The execution however left a bit to be desired.

Going back to Dune, which presented the events as history, BSG had to present it in real time and after the "Big Final Battle", a sudden political episode when you are winding the show down wouldn't work to well.

With BSG's finale I'll go with what a friend of mine stated: "It encapsulates everything good and bad about the show." The first half was awesome (sorry, I cannot damn the entire battle because Starbuck doesn't get in a cockpit). The goodbye beats at the end were appropriate (especially for Adama/Roslin, Baltar and of course Galactica). They were examples of the show at its best. But the method of the settlement of Earth, the deal with the "Angels" were what the show was at its worst.

[JME2]

Here are a couple of mine:

* nBSG: I'm fine with the first half of the finale and the resolution of the Second Cylon War. After they reach Earth, however...

* The X-Files: "The Truth" was an absolute piece of shit.

* VGR: "Endgame" falls into the same category.

[Gramzamber]

The fact that the Colonials reject their tech and do it unanimously isn't even the total extent of the stupidity.
It's that they reject their history and culture too. Because, and I can't repeat this enough, the absolute best way to never to repeat your mistakes is to FORGET ALL ABOUT THEM.
What?

[starfury]

After four seasons of the Fleet bitching and moaning, and nearly killing each other over water, politics, martial law, labor strikes, abortion rights and who knows what else to have them all suddenly seem to agree on something as big as that was pretty damned contrived. I'm not questioning the idea as some do. As far as the show's themes go, it does make some sense. The execution however left a bit to be desired.

I actually didn't have big of problem of rejecting the tech per se, that at least made some sort of themetic sense, not logical, but since the entire reason for the cylon Strike on the 12 colonies was revealed not to be a somewhat justified Skynet-style attempt to take revenge on their former oppresors, but instead because Cavil was jealous of the attention the rest of the Humanoid Cylons held toward humans, relegeting the Real faces of the Cylons, the raiders and Centurions to boring ass mooks, who can't defeat a second-rate decomissiooned battlestar and her antique fighters, despite destroying far newer designs with aide of Baltar's Virus, which incidently was only able to infect the newer models, Galactia was simply too primitive to fall to such tactics.

Really the arrival of all this mysticism after the new Caprica arc and end of the whole "Battlestar Iraqtica" saw the show used up most the really good storylines, I simply stopped caring about the logical reasons, since the reveal of Cylons moltivation just made so boring.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's what I've said all along, nBSG went to shit from S3 onwards. Admittedly, I can't fault the final battle, and the sheer awesomeness in warship form that is Galactica, but as for the themes, its just a case of "hang on, did I just turn over two pages at once?"

Someone above said it exactly, tthe ending with the Angels showed that the entire history of the Colonies, Kobol, the First and Second Cylon Wars, the Exodus and so on, where all utterly irrelevant, because the humans on Earth haven't the faintest clue about it. Not even half-remembered myths and legends.

Having said that, the Atlantis myth MIGHT be vaguely connected - "Destroyed in a single day and night" fire, destruction, etc, ancient, lost knowledge

And the whole, vague message to the viewer "Break the cycle, because these characters you loved didn't" was ridiculous. We're developing artifical life now, so we treat it with respect and break the cycle of violence. Or Else

Oh, wait, Hollywood already did that. Terminator anyone?

[Gramzamber]

You know I went looking around other sites, reading old reactions to the BSG finale and came across a syfy forum with responses by RDM to some criticisms.

I have one thing to say.
Ronald D. Moore is a fucking imbecile.
He seriously thinks abandoning all technology and culture is justified on the grounds that it'll break the cycle or at least "buy us 150,000 years." Hey moron! That's not breaking anything! That's a delay based on ignoring the problem and letting somebody else deal with it!
He also said it would've been bad for the Colonials to keep their technology, because they would've displaced and lorded over the natives. Yeah, cause there's 0 chance they would've been uplifted instead.
Finally he thinks it all does break the cycle because we have their genetic memory, indicated by our culture being similar to theirs right down to phones on our wall.

I've lost all respect I've ever had for this twit. And that was quite a lot.

[JediToren]

He seriously thinks abandoning all technology and culture is justified on the grounds that it'll break the cycle or at least "buy us 150,000 years."

Imagine a drunk driver goes to prison for 20 years after killing a kid with his car. 20 years later he is up for parole. Having no access to alcohol or a car while in prison, his lawyer exclaims "He's learned his lesson! Why, he hasn't even had a drink in 20 years!"
You can't claim someone (be it an individual or a civilization) has learned its lesson until it has the means to make the same mistake but makes a conscious choice not do so.

nBSG's ending really illustrates why films and TV shows are at their best when the writer's influence stops when the cameras start rolling. Writers often fall in love with their own ideas. On the DVD commentary for the Back to the Future trilogy, Bob Gale says that writing with another person really helps keep your work in check and prevents you from over-indulging.

Most of the problems with the finale really come down to this idea of Hera being the mother of us all. In order to make it fit you had to have a bunch of things happen that don't make sense. Ellen says that they should send the centurions away in oder to "break the cycle," yet in the preceding episodes it had been established that metal and meatbags going their separate ways had been tried TWICE, and Ellen witnessed both attempts!
But the presence of a functional self-repairing interstellar warship with advanced robots aboard cannot fit into our history, so that's why they make that decision.
Even though their tech base was gone and they were going to have to accept a less advanced lifestyle eventually, reverting to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle is not only a bit extreme, but doing so immediately without any kind of learning period betrays the show's realism.
But the arrival of a technologically advanced civilization 150,000 years ago would have left traces, so it is required that they act that way in order to disappear into history.

I know that some are tired of hearing this, but I think setting it in the future would have been a much stronger ending for many reasons. While many have pointed out how it makes more sense in terms of logic and evidence (and they're right on about that) it really caps the storyline of the cycle of man-machine violence and prophecies much better.
When the cycle began, their civilization stopped progressing forward and has been caught in a loop ever since. Now that they have finally learned from their mistakes, it makes sense that they return home, where it all started, to continue where they left off.
But the best part is that by setting it in the future we (the audience) have no idea how it will turn out! Up to this point they had been stuck either fulfilling grim prophecies or playing their part in a cycle of tragedy. Their future was always written one way or another. Now that they have broken the cycle, they can look forward to writing their own story, whatever that may be. There are no more plans or visions or prophecies to look to. Whatever lies ahead for them, their future will be whatever they make it, and neither they nor the audience knows that story. After the lives that they and their ancestors had been living, an uncertain future is a hopeful one.

Of course, there are other benefits of setting it in the future. You no longer have to explain why there is no evidence of an advanced civilization arriving 150,000 years ago, therefore, no need to have characters making irrational decisions or having to burn screen time on a political subplot about how to settle the planet.
The one true god's actions and plan now make sense as we understand that it's ultimate goal was to get the colonials and cylons to break the cycle and then go home to begin anew.
It still wouldn't explain why he killed off starbuck and then brought her back.

Anyway.

[Vympel]

I'll say one thing for nBSG, its obvious that its ending was so terrible that people will be discussing why its so shit and coming up with new reasons for its shittyness until the end of time.

Of all the criticisms, the writer falling in love with his own bullshit is a big one. Can anyone imagine that no one, in the writing room, when they heard the ending would've not gotten up and said "uhhm ... this sucks."

[Ghost Rider]

I'll say one thing for nBSG, its obvious that its ending was so terrible that people will be discussing why its so shit and coming up with new reasons for its shittyness until the end of time.

Of all the criticisms, the writer falling in love with his own bullshit is a big one. Can anyone imagine that no one, in the writing room, when they heard the ending would've not gotten up and said "uhhm ... this sucks."

C'mon you can easily see why this was thrown out. The show did recieve acclaim and given how easy one can go egotistical?

He would've dismissed the person as not understanding his vision and been done with it.

[Stark]

Yeah, given the utterly positive and sycophantic response the show got (go back to any S1 thread here for examples) its not surprising Moore decided he was the saviour of scifi; that's what people told him, after all.

[The_Saint]

Having seen the term lucid crop up a few times I present to evidence: LEXX. Lucid is not a term I'd use with regard to where that went in the fourth season (mind you the person sitting beside me doesn't think lucid could be used to describe LEXX at all which is possibly true).

I wasn't to happy about the ends of Dark Angel and Witchblade although they fall in the same bin as Firefly, ending unexpectedly and where does Primeval fit? I'm not sure who knew when that was ending.

Thinking on it I can list a host of tv series that ended a little to early for my liking: Alien Nation, Early Edition, The Pretender (not so much sci fi I guess), Ghost in the shell, Goodnight Sweetheart (is it sci fi? time travel: check!), seaQuest (wtf on the final of season 2, in fact a wtf so big IT NEEDED a third season just to finish the finish), TekWar.

[Stofsk]

Hey, I was fooled. I thought nBSG was better than a lot of people were giving it credit for in the early years. Then season 3 came and it was the beginning of the end. Season 4 was just terrible. Now I find it difficult to muster up the energy to even desire to watch the show again. Now that I know how it ends, the beginning just seems so pointless.

[Nephtys]

Hey, I was fooled. I thought nBSG was better than a lot of people were giving it credit for in the early years. Then season 3 came and it was the beginning of the end. Season 4 was just terrible. Now I find it difficult to muster up the energy to even desire to watch the show again. Now that I know how it ends, the beginning just seems so pointless.

It's funny, but I have this same response. I still think very well of most of the S1 and S2 episodes, considering many of them very good sci-fi. Yet, I can't be bothered to watch them. The last two seasons have tainted the first, now that I know what's coming up

[Crossroads Inc.]

Hey, I was fooled. I thought nBSG was better than a lot of people were giving it credit for in the early years. Then season 3 came and it was the beginning of the end. Season 4 was just terrible. Now I find it difficult to muster up the energy to even desire to watch the show again. Now that I know how it ends, the beginning just seems so pointless.

It's funny, but I have this same response. I still think very well of most of the S1 and S2 episodes, considering many of them very good sci-fi. Yet, I can't be bothered to watch them. The last two seasons have tainted the first, now that I know what's coming up

Same here, I remember faithfully buying the Seasons as they came out, how energized I was in the beginning, now I look at my collection opf BSG and it just fills me with disgust. I seriously can't think of ever watching the show again,

[Vympel]

The ending didn't really ruin nBSG at all for me - I wholeheartedly bought the entire series on Blu-Ray even though I already owend most of it (not Season 4.5) on DVD, after all. The point of a ride is the journey, not the end, as far as I'm concerned- it was the sci-fi show of the 2000s, for me.

Even with the terrible ending, its still a great show and head and shoulders above the drek we've had to put up with lately (Stargate Atlantis, anyone?).

All I have to watch now is Flash Forward (not really sci-fi), V (which is just ok), Stargate Universe (somewhat promising) and Doctor Who.

Oh, and LEGEND OF GALACTIC HEROES, but that's hardly new.

[Gramzamber]

I suppose the impact of nBSG's ending may depend on one's beliefs and mindset.
I mean I could get over the rank stupidity of it and the deus ex machina, but the outright luddism and sudden suicidalness of the survivors insults the very core of my values. I utterly despise when technology is blamed for humanity's flaws. It's like blaming your hammer because you accidentally hit your thumb.
Worse still is when society is accused of being somehow worthless and immoral and we'd all be better off back to basics. Yeah. Bullshit! So you're saying millenia of war, slavery, misogyny and strife is better than what the Colonials had? Fuck you, Ron.