Dune 7 & 8 (Spoilers): Duncan Idaho?

[Gaidin]

Yeah, but in Heretics it's said the Harkonnen No-Globe found on Gammu by Teg was built after Leto II's reign. It's one of those stupid inconsistencies between the original books and the prequels that's pretty much impossible to rationalize in any sort of sensible way short of just throwing one of the two accounts out the window.

I don't think there was a House Harkonnen after Leto II got done with the universe, and that globe had Harkonnen sigils and such littered all over the place. In fact wording in the book suggested Leto knew it was happening and let them do it to bankrupt them. At the very least we can be pretty sure it was early in Leto II's reign as it was filled with gear from the era and an awakened Duncan Idaho had to practically teach Miles Teg and Lucilla how to properly use some of it.

[Imperial Overlord]

I don't recall any indication that later era lasguns are more advanced than those of the first books. That is to say, they're hellishly powerful. Duncan Idaho takes out a Harkonnen troop carrier with a lasgun and the Atreides family sleeps underground at one point early in Dune when its believed that the Harkonnens have managed to smuggle in some to their agents on Arrakis. The stone walls of a fortress are specifically said to be insufficient protection from a lasgun assassination attempt. In God-Emperor we have the lasgun assassination of Leto II by collapsing the bridge he's on and then frying his palanquin. There's nothing about the later incident which seems to indicate superior performance to the earlier ones.

[Gaidin]

I don't recall any indication that later era lasguns are more advanced than those of the first books. That is to say, they're hellishly powerful. Duncan Idaho takes out a Harkonnen troop carrier with a lasgun and the Atreides family sleeps underground at one point early in Dune when its believed that the Harkonnens have managed to smuggle in some to their agents on Arrakis. The stone walls of a fortress are specifically said to be insufficient protection from a lasgun assassination attempt. In God-Emperor we have the lasgun assassination of Leto II by collapsing the bridge he's on and then frying his palanquin. There's nothing about the later incident which seems to indicate superior performance to the earlier ones.

There's no indication that they're more powerful, but there is definitely indication that something is different or there'd be no reason for commentary on Miles Teg's use of an ancient era lasgun when they're attacked as they leave the no-globe for their rendezvous. It could be that the modern ones are more efficient in their power usage, giving them more firing time for a charge pack. Hell it could be so simple as a sleeker looking design. There is something different worth commenting on though.

[Thanas]

Or it could be the new ones suck, as evidenced by machine-guns being described as standard weaponry now.

[Gaidin]

Or it could be the new ones suck, as evidenced by machine-guns being described as standard weaponry now.

Were I to guess, given the damage a lasgun can do, now that shields are out of style that's as much because machine guns are good for anti-infantry and they can use lasguns as one man artillery weapons. I mean hell, he was cutting down trees with the thing.

[Thanas]

Or it could be the new ones suck, as evidenced by machine-guns being described as standard weaponry now.

Were I to guess, given the damage a lasgun can do, now that shields are out of style that's as much because machine guns are good for anti-infantry and they can use lasguns as one man artillery weapons. I mean hell, he was cutting down trees with the thing.

Why would they go back to a less efficient weapon? I mean, a lasgun can vaporize far more than an MG. It would be akin to us adapting bow and arrow because we switched over to grenade launchers.

[Gaidin]

Nah, that's not the idea at all. The idea is why not use bullets now that shields are out of style? There's nothing making them totally useless anymore. The most expensive part would be startup of production, but once you have lines up a bullet is, odds are, a lot cheaper than a charge pack. There's no reason not to arm troops with them when you don't need them to have a weapon capable of blowing a hole through a wall. The lasguns in modern times(read: Heretics of Dune) are at least as good as those they picked up in the no-globe or there'd be some note along the lines of 'holy crap how did they make these things back then?!' Comparing it to a bow when a bullet still has its velocity and impact effects which an arrow does not is a bit, well, wierd, even on a conceptual tech level metaphor.

Bullets aren't less efficient, merely different and kinetic energy based. If you had a lasgun but wanted the option of a man-portable kinetic energy weapon now that shields weren't in use, what would you go with? And it rounds out the theory of some men are armed to take out infantry and some men are armed to be walking artillery pieces.

[Thanas]

Nah, that's not the idea at all. The idea is why not use bullets now that shields are out of style? There's nothing making them totally useless anymore. The most expensive part would be startup of production, but once you have lines up a bullet is, odds are, a lot cheaper than a charge pack. There's no reason not to arm troops with them when you don't need them to have a weapon capable of blowing a hole through a wall. The lasguns in modern times(read: Heretics of Dune) are at least as good as those they picked up in the no-globe or there'd be some note along the lines of 'holy crap how did they make these things back then?!' Comparing it to a bow when a bullet still has its velocity and impact effects which an arrow does not is a bit, well, wierd, even on a conceptual tech level metaphor.

Bullets aren't less efficient, merely different and kinetic energy based. If you had a lasgun but wanted the option of a man-portable kinetic energy weapon now that shields weren't in use, what would you go with?

Why would I need a kinetic weapon in the first place? This was the BG stronghold, no real need for penny-crunching here.

That said, I would go with an automated grenade launcher. More versatile, can fire different types of ammo and if necessary, can probably even fire lasgun charges.

And it rounds out the theory of some men are armed to take out infantry and some men are armed to be walking artillery pieces.

Problem is that before Dune never made that distinction. With lasungs, you do not need to.

[Gaidin]

Why would I need a kinetic weapon in the first place? This was the BG stronghold, no real need for penny-crunching here.

That said, I would go with an automated grenade launcher. More versatile, can fire different types of ammo and if necessary, can probably even fire lasgun charges.

I've got no clue why you would need or want one. All I know is that they're in use by some groups on a large enough scale its worth it for the highest commander of the BG forces to take note of it and account for it. Whether the BG use it themselves or not is not noted, and is not important in what the book says. Just the fact that they are used.

Problem is that before Dune never made that distinction. With lasungs, you do not need to.

Dune was never a world where kinetic energy weapons would be relevant on a large, non-surprise attack scale until Heretics of Dune. Hell until Heretics of Dune, lasguns were just as big a risk, and just as irrelevant as KE weapons in large scale use, to the user as to the one being attacked. Noting the lasgun's real capabilities wasn't important until then because you tended to avoid them in protracted battle outside special circumstances because they're walking nukes, for lack of a better description.