Agricultural Slavery, Still In The US.

[SirNitram]

Link

Jewel Goodman eases back into his porch chair and breaks the filter off a peach-flavored Clipper cigar. He rolls it absentmindedly in his fingers and closes his eyes to smell the breeze tattle on an incoming storm. In his 57 years, he's seen enough hard days to know not to rush an easy one.

For most of his life he has toiled long days in hot fields picking cabbage, potatoes and tobacco. Eight of those years were spent on a farm in Hastings, south of St. Augustine. In 2007, Ronald Evans was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison after holding Goodman and other farm workers "perpetually indebted" in what the U.S. Department of Justice called "a form of servitude morally and legally reprehensible."

Goodman is one of more than 1,000 slaves who have gained freedom in Florida since 1997.

Goodman lights his cigar, takes a slow draw, leans back and remembers.

"I had to scrap with the devil for my living. And by the devil, I mean contractors," he says. "All the camps I been in, some of them was good and some of them wasn't, but Evans . . . that was slavery time. No playing around."

It started one day in the early '90s, when a white van stopped him in front of the Fruit Stand grocery store in Hastings and asked if he needed work. He did. But as soon as he met Evans he knew he had found trouble. Evans was mean in a way that made Goodman feel suddenly aware of how far out of town they were. There was no phone. Chain link and barbed wired surrounded the property. The crew leaders looked hardened, "like they just come out of prison." The field workers called them henchmen.

One of them gave him a pair of bloodstained work boots.

"He said 'These belong to the last guy who ran. If I catch you trying to get down that road, you're going to answer to me too.' "

Eventually, Goodman ran anyway.

"I went through the ditch in the back of the camp. As soon as I got down the road I saw some lights behind my back. It was a white van. One of the henchmen grabbed me by the back of the neck, threw me in. That's how they'd do you. You couldn't go down that road."

He never saw any money for his work. Rent was deducted from his wages and workers were only given credit at the company store in an age-old scam that left them immediately and perpetually in debt. Alcohol and crack cocaine were available on credit as well, feeding addictions and deepening obligations. Goodman was a drinker, and his debt piled up.

Occasionally he'd work up the courage to make a run for it, and one night it worked. From experience he knew to leave at 3 a.m., to leave his shoes behind to buy extra time, to get right through the drainage ditch, into the woods. He knew to stay still when the white van headlights scanned from the road, to move only after they passed. By 5 a.m. he made it into town and took shelter with another contractor, whom everyone called Jitterbug.

The next day Evans found him at the new camp, but Jitterbug wouldn't let him come in. From the road, Evans promised he would get Goodman back eventually, and said it would be a sorry day for him when he did. But now Evans is in prison, and Goodman is smoking peachy cigars on the porch as free man.

"All that money you took from me. Let's see how much of that money you can spend where you are now," Goodman says of Evans. But all is not equal. Never will be.

"Thing is, it's real hard for me to trust anybody now. I just don't trust nobody no more."

I am very much angered by this. Enraged, in fact. But they're illegals.. And there are powerful interests who will do whatever it can to avoid giving them enough rights to even report this without the potential for deportation.

[The Yosemite Bear]

or just poor too.


United Farm Workers and the AFL-CIO have been busy here in California making enemies of powerful politicians that are pro-sweatshop/slavery conditions and we are considered a liberal state.

[loomer]

On top of this, Louisiana as a state still maintains slave-labour cotton plantations, the most well known of which is...

Angola. It's actual name is the Louisiana State Prison. On 18,000 acres of what used to be slave-worked plantations, maximum security prison inmates - mostly black, like in the rest of the prison system away from the regions where Latinos are more prominent - farm cotton with nothing but hand tools. Most of the guards are underpaid and don't even have high school degrees - a few are the descendants of the original slavemasters for the local plantations.

Oh, and there's five thousand of them. Three thousand are lifers. What was that about abolishing slavery?

[Sea Skimmer]

Yeah because conviction on a court of law is the exact same thing as slavery. I hear paying taxes makes you a slave too.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It has long been determined that, even correcting for other variables, that the criminal justice system in the deep South is incredibly racist. Statistically, for the same essential charge, blacks in Texas for example are something like five times more likely to get the death penalty for killing a white man than vice versa. Furthermore, American prison conditions and penal labor is pretty much on the regressive end of the spectrum as far as the civilized world is concerned. And of course, there's the preposterously extreme incarceration rate relative to the civilized world and relative crime rates. Our system produces more crime, manages it poorly and in a manner least likely to prevent recidivism, and features some of the worst conditions; since the U.S. population is not fundamentally culturally or genetically different from Western Europe in significant part, I fail to see another reason aside from incompetent policy.

[Simon_Jester]

In and of itself, putting criminals to work at hard labor isn't necessarily bad.

Having a racist judicial system is. And in places where the judiciary is demonstrably racist (the Deep South), I'd argue that the judiciary isn't trustworthy enough to be allowed to hand out death sentences and to put convicts to work at hard labor.

[TimothyC]

What was that about abolishing slavery?

The 13th Amendment expressly allows for the use of slavery as punishment for crime:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

[Molyneux]

What was that about abolishing slavery?

The 13th Amendment expressly allows for the use of slavery as punishment for crime:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

And that is something that obviously needs to go away. Entirely. As soon as fucking possible.
Especially when we have little to no reason to assume that the system in question has anything resembling a good track record for wrongful convictions.

[Solauren]

While I'm against the agricultural slavery that Mr. Goodman found himself in, I'm not so opposed to 'prison system slavery' as it's been called.

However, I think it should be optional, and the prisoners choice at time of sentencing.

i.e

"Okay, you've been convincted of (whatever). You have a choice of prisons: 10 years sitting on your hands, bored to tears, in a standard jail, or a 'work-release jail', where you work, and your sentence is reduced accordingly. 10 years in the slammer, or 5 picking cotton by hand, your choice"

Now, there are still issues with this, but it's just one of many that would be corrected by a proper over-haul of the American Legal System.

[stormthebeaches]

I don't see anything wrong with making convicted felons work. It beats having them do nothing in prison.

[Samuel]

Wait, we can enslave people for violating the law? That sounds rather cartoonishly evil.

[eion]

Wait, we can enslave people for violating the law? That sounds rather cartoonishly evil.

What else would you call being in prison? I think teaching prisoners a trade (Though it must be one they can actually use upon release) is a fine way to reduce recidivism.

As for the article: It's disgusting, but hardly surprising. Right down the street from me is where all the day laborers line up. It is a constant reminder that we need comprehensive immigration reform because I'm sure some of those young guys are being abused, they are certainly under-paid, and no one (especially themselves) is inclined or able to do anything about it since they didn't jump through the hoops of our immigration system.

[Samuel]

That isn't slavery- slaves can be bought, sold and owned by other people. Even contracting out to a corporate prison isn't slavery- you still leave when your time is served.

Edit- I wasn't refering to what we currently do, but what the law potentially allows. I didn't realize the government had that power.

[stormthebeaches]

Do these prison slaves get sold to other people? I was under the impression that the affair is managed by the state.

[eion]

That isn't slavery- slaves can be bought, sold and owned by other people. Even contracting out to a corporate prison isn't slavery- you still leave when your time is served.

I think that exception is more in reference to the "involuntary servitude" clause than the chattel slavery clause. If the state didn't have the right to detain people against their will, you really can't punish people with incarceration. Of course like most constitutional amendments, it's all about how you read the text, often down the commas.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think teaching prisoners a trade (Though it must be one they can actually use upon release) is a fine way to reduce recidivism.

I agree in principle, but I don't think "picking cotton" is really going to reduce recidivism all that much.

[eion]

I think teaching prisoners a trade (Though it must be one they can actually use upon release) is a fine way to reduce recidivism.

I agree in principle, but I don't think "picking cotton" is really going to reduce recidivism all that much.

No, and I wouldn't call cotton-picking either a "trade" or something that can be "used upon release". Ashurst–Sumners severely restricts the transport of convict-produced goods across state lines, though there are, you guessed it, exceptions for agricultural commodities (like cotton).

"Good" prison-taught trades would include things like food preparation, landscaping, desktop publishing, clerical work, cabinet making, auto maintenance, hair-cutting, etc.

[ArmorPierce]

lol a good trade with a bright future in the cotton picking industry. Reminds me of that movie 'life'. Anyway, I personally know people who work basically like slaves. Illegal immigrants who does some contracting construction work with the promise of being paid but never get that paycheck at the end and not much that they can do about it.

[Sea Skimmer]

I think teaching prisoners a trade (Though it must be one they can actually use upon release) is a fine way to reduce recidivism.

I agree in principle, but I don't think "picking cotton" is really going to reduce recidivism all that much.

Teaching skills isn't really the point of the prison farms. The point is just that inmates are less violent and go less insane if you give them a job to do every day, instead of being locked in a cell for 23 hours a day.

[General Mung Beans]

It has long been determined that, even correcting for other variables, that the criminal justice system in the deep South is incredibly racist. Statistically, for the same essential charge, blacks in Texas for example are something like five times more likely to get the death penalty for killing a white man than vice versa. Furthermore, American prison conditions and penal labor is pretty much on the regressive end of the spectrum as far as the civilized world is concerned. And of course, there's the preposterously extreme incarceration rate relative to the civilized world and relative crime rates. Our system produces more crime, manages it poorly and in a manner least likely to prevent recidivism, and features some of the worst conditions; since the U.S. population is not fundamentally culturally or genetically different from Western Europe in significant part, I fail to see another reason aside from incompetent policy.

To be fair crimes rates have been decreasing in the US for the last thirty years ever since tougher sentencing laws were implemented.

[eion]

To be fair crimes rates have been decreasing in the US for the last thirty years ever since tougher sentencing laws were implemented.

And the proof that the two are related is...

[General Mung Beans]

To be fair crimes rates have been decreasing in the US for the last thirty years ever since tougher sentencing laws were implemented.

And the proof that the two are related is...

Fairly logical: expanded police budgets and stricter punishments generally prevent crime more and keep criminals from returning to the streets.

[eion]

Fairly logical: expanded police budgets and stricter punishments generally prevent crime more and keep criminals from returning to the streets.

Actually, it's a logical fallacy to assume that correlation equals causation.

I could also argue that the desire to commit crime isn't any less persistent than it was in 1980, just the fact that the U.S. has both the largest per-capita prison population, and the largest prison population overall means that there are less people out there to commit crimes; it doesn't mean that we have any less criminals than we did in 1980, we've just shoved them in an out of the way place, or just killed them. In other words, we haven't reduced crime, we've just relocated it to prisons. Analogy, "No, we haven't really been working on curing or treating all those folks with HIV, but we have built them a state of the art retreat on a deserted island chain where they'll spend the rest of their lives. That's pretty much the same."

You may ask yourself: what is the incarciation rate (inmates per 100,000 general populace) of other Countries? Canada: 116 Russia: 629 US: 756. Putting more people in jail doesn't mean less crime, just more prisoners. If that's your definition of success, that's fine, but that wasn't your statement. I happen to think that if you want to actually succeed at lowering the crime-rate, you need to actually prevent people from wanting or needing to commit crimes, not catching them once and locking them up for so long that by the time they get out and want/need to rob another bank they have to do it while riding a Rascal scooter.

Again, just pointing out that X has gone down while Y has gone up doesn't mean that Y caused X. It doesn't rule it out, but it isn't an imperative either.

Finally, a nitpick: you cannot prevent crime more, it either happens or it doesn't. What you meant to say was that you prevent more crimes.

[Kanastrous]

I suspect that when most people think 'reduced crime' they think reduced crime among the non-incarcerated - that is to say, in the main law-abiding - population.

If I don't get shot in the face by someone who wants my wallet, the fact that he's unable to shoot me in the face because he's incarcerated is secondary to the fact that I am not getting shot in the face.

I happen to think that if you want to actually succeed at lowering the crime-rate, you need to actually prevent people from wanting or needing to commit crimes, not catching them once and locking them up for so long that by the time they get out and want/need to rob another bank they have to do it while riding a Rascal scooter.

Both approaches sound effective, at lowering the crime rate. I don't know how you go about preventing people from 'wanting' to commit crimes, unless you institute a program to identify and weed out sociopaths from the general population, and put them away in some sort of shutzhaft. Which would basically be a form of imprisonment, too, at least until they are judged safe for release.

[eion]

I suspect that when most people think 'reduced crime' they think reduced crime among the non-incarcerated - that is to say, in the main law-abiding - population.

If I don't get shot in the face by someone who wants my wallet, the fact that he's unable to shoot me in the face because he's incarcerated is secondary to the fact that I am not getting shot in the face.

And when most people think "happy couple" they imagine a man and a women in loving embrace. I don’t think it is enough to simply relocate the crime inside prison walls; I want to wipe it out altogether. And if we only care about the "law-abiding" population, why do we prosecute prisoners who murder other prisoners? Why do we even investigate the murder of a mobster? Sectioning off groups of people and saying, "Those aren't the people we really care about" is a very easy way to create a disenfranchised underclass that will be far more likely to commit crimes.

Locking up a person for committing a crime doesn't address the underlying cause of the crime itself, and when they are released (often because they are costing too much to keep locked up) they will have received no aid in reform, possess no skills they can use to support themselves, and will likely fall back into a crime-inducing environment, and the cycle will continue.

There are people in this world who can never be a member of society. Those people are rare and should be locked up for their whole lives for their own safety and for the safety of others. But there are so many more who are weak, who are hungry, who don't think they can ever do better or be better, and so commit crimes of necessity or desperation. Those deserve every amount of aid we can muster, not only because it is the humane and moral thing to do, but because it is the smart thing.

I happen to think that if you want to actually succeed at lowering the crime-rate, you need to actually prevent people from wanting or needing to commit crimes, not catching them once and locking them up for so long that by the time they get out and want/need to rob another bank they have to do it while riding a Rascal scooter.

Both approaches sound effective, at lowering the crime rate. I don't know how you go about preventing people from 'wanting' to commit crimes, unless you institute a program to identify and weed out sociopaths from the general population, and put them away in some sort of shutzhaft.Which would basically be a form of imprisonment, too, at least until they are judged safe for release.

You think the only reason people rob convenience stores, murder others, shoplift DVDs, and use drugs is because they are sociopaths? You don't think maybe there is an economic factor involved for some?

The only thing lifetime incarceration does is create lifetime criminals. If a person knows they'll be spending their whole lives in prison, what drive will they have to reform themselves? Crime doesn't stop just because you lock someone up. Plenty of people (yes, prisoners and prison guards are people too) are murdered, robbed, raped, tortured, exploited, deal drugs, and fall victim to all manner of crimes while they are behind bars.

Love the Holocaust reference too, very classy, and wholly non-sequitur. I’m not advocating non-judicial detention, followed by concentration camps, and execution. I’m saying we need to change how people spend their time in prisons.