Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppression!

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppression!

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

LINK
WASHINGTON (BP)--President Obama has once again proclaimed June as "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Month," a declaration critics say marginalizes the beliefs of conservative Christians and also ignores the fact that countless number of people have left homosexuality and consider themselves ex-gay.
Obama's proclamation is similar to the one he issued last year, although it does break new ground by calling for the repeal of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, a law that requires the federal government to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman. If it is overturned, then state laws that prohibit "gay marriage" also could be repealed.

The proclamation recounts Obama's accomplishments for the homosexual community -- including his signing of a sexual orientation hate crimes law -- and says Obama is committed to helping the community reach "full equality." Openly homosexual employees "are serving at every level" of his administration, it says.

Although President Clinton issued such proclamations -- becoming the first chief executive to do so -- President George W. Bush did not. Obama's 2009 proclamation was the first to mention bisexuals and transgendereds.

"Much work remains to fulfill our Nation's promise of equal justice under law for LGBT Americans," the 2010 proclamation reads. "That is why we must give committed gay couples the same rights and responsibilities afforded to any married couple, and repeal the Defense of Marriage Act. We must protect the rights of LGBT families by securing their adoption rights, ending employment discrimination against LGBT Americans, and ensuring Federal employees receive equal benefits. We must create safer schools so all our children may learn in a supportive environment. I am also committed to ending 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' so patriotic LGBT Americans can serve openly in our military, and I am working with the Congress and our military leadership to accomplish that goal."

The proclamation calls on Americans to "observe this month by fighting prejudice and discrimination in their own lives and everywhere it exists."

Bob Stith, the Southern Baptist national strategist for gender issues, said Obama's proclamation is disappointing and also "marginalizes" the beliefs of not only Christianity but also other religions.

"Some of the most joyful, Christ-like Christians I know are those who've walked out of homosexuality," said Stith, who also is a representative of the denomination's Task Force on Ministry to Homosexuals. "Those of us who have never struggled with this issue could learn much from them. Unfortunately their story is not accorded the same respect either by this administration or the secular media."

It is not prejudiced or discriminatory, Stith said, to stand up for biblical teachings about marriage and the family. Obama's proclamation "doesn't allow for a genuine sincerely thought-out opinion" based on Scripture, he said.

"This issue for most evangelical Christians is not bias or prejudice," Stith said. "It is simply maintaining the freedom to speak the truth about Scripture. It is one thing to be loving and tolerant. It is something else altogether to encourage pride in what God clearly says is sin.

"The bottom line," Stith said, "is that if God defines something as sin, we do no one any favors by attempting to blur those lines. Nor will we be doing future generations any favors by obliterating barriers God has put up for our protection. On several occasions the Bible uses the phrase 'every man did that which was right in his own eyes.' In every case it turned out badly."

Michael Foust is an assistant editor of Baptist Press. The proclamation is available on the White House website at http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... ride-month. The Southern Baptist Convention has a ministry to homosexuals. Find more information at www.sbcthewayout.com.

The complete text of Obama's proclamation follows:

"Presidential Proclamation--Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month

"As Americans, it is our birthright that all people are created equal and deserve the same rights, privileges, and opportunities. Since our earliest days of independence, our Nation has striven to fulfill that promise. An important chapter in our great, unfinished story is the movement for fairness and equality on behalf of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community. This month, as we recognize the immeasurable contributions of LGBT Americans, we renew our commitment to the struggle for equal rights for LGBT Americans and to ending prejudice and injustice wherever it exists.

"LGBT Americans have enriched and strengthened the fabric of our national life. From business leaders and professors to athletes and first responders, LGBT individuals have achieved success and prominence in every discipline. They are our mothers and fathers, our sons and daughters, and our friends and neighbors. Across my Administration, openly LGBT employees are serving at every level. Thanks to those who came before us the brave men and women who marched, stood up to injustice, and brought change through acts of compassion or defiance we have made enormous progress and continue to strive for a more perfect union.

"My Administration has advanced our journey by signing into law the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr., Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which strengthens Federal protections against crimes based on gender identity or sexual orientation. We renewed the Ryan White CARE Act, which provides life saving medical services and support to Americans living with HIV/AIDS, and finally eliminated the HIV entry ban. I also signed a Presidential Memorandum directing hospitals receiving Medicare and Medicaid funds to give LGBT patients the compassion and security they deserve in their time of need, including the ability to choose someone other than an immediate family member to visit them and make medical decisions.

"In other areas, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) announced a series of proposals to ensure core housing programs are open to everyone, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity. HUD also announced the first ever national study of discrimination against members of the LGBT community in the rental and sale of housing. Additionally, the Department of Health and Human Services has created a National Resource Center for LGBT Elders.

"Much work remains to fulfill our Nation's promise of equal justice under law for LGBT Americans. That is why we must give committed gay couples the same rights and responsibilities afforded to any married couple, and repeal the Defense of Marriage Act. We must protect the rights of LGBT families by securing their adoption rights, ending employment discrimination against LGBT Americans, and ensuring Federal employees receive equal benefits. We must create safer schools so all our children may learn in a supportive environment. I am also committed to ending "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" so patriotic LGBT Americans can serve openly in our military, and I am working with the Congress and our military leadership to accomplish that goal.

"As we honor the LGBT Americans who have given so much to our Nation, let us remember that if one of us is unable to realize full equality, we all fall short of our founding principles. Our Nation draws its strength from our diversity, with each of us contributing to the greater whole. By affirming these rights and values, each American benefits from the further advancement of liberty and justice for all.

"NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim June 2010 as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month. I call upon all Americans to observe this month by fighting prejudice and discrimination in their own lives and everywhere it exists.

"IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-eighth day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand ten, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-fourth."
Yet another case of the Far Christian Right screaming "Help Help! We're being Oppressed!" cause someone ELSE got a day in the spot light.
Listening to the various preachers talk about how "This isn't about Discrimination" and then in the same breath talk about "We can't deny homosexuality is a Sin" reminds me just how deluded these people are.
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Oskuro »

"It is not prejudiced or discriminatory" Stith said "to stand up for biblicalprejudiced or discriminatory teachings about marriage and the family."
Couldn't resist fixing that, I also like the following snippet:
"Nor will we be doing future generations any favors by obliterating barriers God has put up for our protection."
Our protection from what, exactly? Oh, right, from GOD himself. Really well thought-out opinions these.

But, then again, let's admit it, they are being opressed, since what they want is to be able to impose their bigoted views upon others unopposed, they are doubtlessly being opressed by society telling them to shove it.
unsigned
User avatar
Admiral Valdemar
Outside Context Problem
Posts: 31572
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:17pm
Location: UK

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Round them up and gas them. Let them know they're really getting fucking oppressed when they're inhaling Zyklon-B. I'm sick and tired of the Christian Taliban, and I don't even live in the United States of Jesusland.
Samuel
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4750
Joined: 2008-10-23 11:36am

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Samuel »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Round them up and gas them. Let them know they're really getting fucking oppressed when they're inhaling Zyklon-B. I'm sick and tired of the Christian Taliban, and I don't even live in the United States of Jesusland.
Can't we get to the second page before someone makes such a comparison "sigh".
a declaration critics say marginalizes the beliefs of conservative Christians and also ignores the fact that countless number of people have left homosexuality and consider themselves ex-gay.
Just like MLK day marginalized the beliefs of white supremists (as well as other racial supremists for that matter). As for leaving homosexuality... you can stop being black as well! You just need alot of paint.
Obama's 2009 proclamation was the first to mention bisexuals and transgendereds.
Wait... he is actually doing something progressive :shock:
the beliefs of not only Christianity but also other religions.
Like Islam! Everyone knows Islam is a great barometer right?

I should note that while the opening of the speech is fluff, the details and things that he is changing make it sound like he is actually managing to make improvements on this issue. They sound trivial, but that is only because the prior lack is so insane like
I also signed a Presidential Memorandum directing hospitals receiving Medicare and Medicaid funds to give LGBT patients the compassion and security they deserve in their time of need, including the ability to choose someone other than an immediate family member to visit them and make medical decisions.
Zed
Padawan Learner
Posts: 487
Joined: 2010-05-19 08:56pm

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Zed »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Round them up and gas them. Let them know they're really getting fucking oppressed when they're inhaling Zyklon-B. I'm sick and tired of the Christian Taliban, and I don't even live in the United States of Jesusland.
Are you by any coincidence the Baronet Mosley?
User avatar
Admiral Valdemar
Outside Context Problem
Posts: 31572
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:17pm
Location: UK

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Zed wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Round them up and gas them. Let them know they're really getting fucking oppressed when they're inhaling Zyklon-B. I'm sick and tired of the Christian Taliban, and I don't even live in the United States of Jesusland.
Are you by any coincidence the Baronet Mosley?
Yes. Because I'm actually advocating, for real, on a web board, the systematic extermination of a group of people.

For real.
Zed
Padawan Learner
Posts: 487
Joined: 2010-05-19 08:56pm

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Zed »

That doesn't mean it isn't hate speech.
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Flagg »

Samuel wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Round them up and gas them. Let them know they're really getting fucking oppressed when they're inhaling Zyklon-B. I'm sick and tired of the Christian Taliban, and I don't even live in the United States of Jesusland.
Can't we get to the second page before someone makes such a comparison "sigh".
Something wrong with it?
Zed wrote:That doesn't mean it isn't hate speech.
Yes it does.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

It's intentionally hyperbolic exasperation speech, and not much more. I doubt these people are at any serious risk of being gassed, and it's not like Valdemar is precipitating a slippery slope in that direction.
Image
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

TithonusSyndrome wrote:It's intentionally hyperbolic exasperation speech, and not much more. I doubt these people are at any serious risk of being gassed, and it's not like Valdemar is precipitating a slippery slope in that direction.
I often think it Ought to happen, but know I am a horrible person for thinking it (I am ok with that).

It just means you should never vote me into public office... my Little List Society Offenders Who Might Well be Underground is rather extensive.
Last edited by Alyrium Denryle on 2010-06-03 02:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Ryan Thunder
Village Idiot
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Location: Canada

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Ryan Thunder »

Good to know there's (still) no shortage of goddamned theocratic assholes. -______________-
SDN Worlds 5: Sanctum
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Good to know how close to the surface Nazi logic scuttles underneath the rocks of Establishment left-liberalism. Just rattle their cages a bit and they'll find some Freikorps to crush their enemies, be it from the far-right or left.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
Zed
Padawan Learner
Posts: 487
Joined: 2010-05-19 08:56pm

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Zed »

TithonusSyndrome wrote:It's intentionally hyperbolic exasperation speech, and not much more. I doubt these people are at any serious risk of being gassed, and it's not like Valdemar is precipitating a slippery slope in that direction.
It's intentionally hyperbolic exasperation speech like that which gives the theocrats more and more ammunition to claim they're being oppressed. Intentionally hyperbolic speech also serves as an enabler for people who are serious about such opinions. And they apparently exist, as Alyrium Denryle just illustrates.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Good to know how close to the surface Nazi logic scuttles underneath the rocks of Establishment left-liberalism. Just rattle their cages a bit and they'll find some Freikorps to crush their enemies, be it from the far-right or left.
Oh please. You cant tell me you dont have a pet group of people, like corrupt politicians or whathaveyou that you sometimes think need to be crucified along a freeway somewhere.

For me, that list is more extensive. Executives of certain corporations, their corrupt regulators, christ-fascists, islamo-fascists, neo-confederates, post-modernists, people against animal experimentation etc. Given that I do not and never will be in a position of power the fact that I sometimes look at a degraded marsh, look at the fact that 1/3rd of all amphibians are going extinct (more if you know how conservative the IUCN is...) and that 20% of lizards will be extinct in 60 years, see a confederate flag the size of a house, worry about someone bombing my lab, or hear someone say "roads are rivers of modernity" and whistfully wish that the people responsible to die horrible deaths is not a problem. I would never as a voter actually push for that... but it is a dream I have. One that I can use for sweet catharsis when my powerless little ass if frustrated.
Last edited by Alyrium Denryle on 2010-06-03 02:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Funny really, the left often prematurely and retardedly unleashes the Pandora's Box of political violence and radicalism without realizing that, as Marina once aptly put it, when leftists get upset, on average they organize sit-ins, protests, incite the occasional riot, and throw beer bottles; whereas when reactionaries come out of their caves, they bolt machine guns to cars and plate them with armor, they bring out deer rifles and sit amongst the trees, they come armed to the teeth, and they lynch people. I wonder which side Alyrium thinks he'd end up on after his equivalent of the German Communists are answered by the theocrats' Freikorps.

The left only wins when they manage to literally organize or politically co-opt a huge fraction of the society, or when they co-opt the Army. Otherwise the guys with guns just shoot them. More to the point, I think we had a poster, ArcturusMengsk, who was literally banned for saying this kind of shit.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Funny really, the left often prematurely and retardedly unleashes the Pandora's Box of political violence and radicalism without realizing that, as Marina once aptly put it, when leftists get upset, on average they organize sit-ins, protests, incite the occasional riot, and throw beer bottles; whereas when reactionaries come out of their caves, they bolt machine guns to cars and plate them with armor, they bring out deer rifles and sit amongst the trees, they come armed to the teeth, and they lynch people. I wonder which side Alyrium thinks he'd end up on after his equivalent of the German Communists are answered by the theocrats' Freikorps.
That would be the difference. Wanting something to happen and knowing it is wrong and that it should never actually be done (even if me getting into power may be a scary thing, which is why I will never seek it) is completely different from what crazy ass reactionaries do. They want something to happen, and think that it should happen, then they seek the power to do it.

The worst I would ever actually do is grouse about crucifying* people while I am laying in front of a bulldozer.

*I just kinda think that if you are going to execute someone, there should be some class to it. The romans had class.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:That would be the difference. Wanting something to happen and knowing it is wrong and that it should never actually be done (even if me getting into power may be a scary thing, which is why I will never seek it) is completely different from what crazy ass reactionaries do. They want something to happen, and think that it should happen, then they seek the power to do it.
Its still a stupid and immoral thing to say or even think. Not that I think your thoughts should be modified to conform with my standards, but I think it bears pointing out.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:The worst I would ever actually do is grouse about crucifying* people while I am laying in front of a bulldozer.

*I just kinda think that if you are going to execute someone, there should be some class to it. The romans had class.
Do you really think this 'sounds cool' or something?
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
Ryan Thunder
Village Idiot
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Location: Canada

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Ryan Thunder »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Do you really think this 'sounds cool' or something?
I never understood that, either. For someone who likes to talk so much about reducing all suffering, doesn't it seem kind of odd that he'd pick one of the most painful methods of execution imaginable?

Actually, its kind of odd that he'd have a favoured method of execution in the first place...
SDN Worlds 5: Sanctum
User avatar
Admiral Valdemar
Outside Context Problem
Posts: 31572
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:17pm
Location: UK

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Anyone actively condoning the exact action we're condemning needs to get their heads looked at, along with the theocrats. I don't even wish death or torture on actual criminals, and the gauge for a civilised society should be how we treat fellow humans, guilty and innocent. The very fact that these people can't tell real oppression of the sort that happened in Europe last century (or various places outside the US right now), and something that is simply promoting a poorly understood or tolerated subset of society is the real crime here. They can cry all they want about this being a horrible act of government mandated oppression until the cows come home, but until they get into their thick heads that this is like comparing a papercut to live vivsection in the grand scheme of things, they deserve nothing but ridicule.

These people really are just disconnected with reality in about every conceivable way.
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Flagg »

God you people are fucking idiots. Using holocaust imagery hyperbole to point out how absurd the Christian Rights claims of persecution are is no more hate speech or subsurface "Nazi Logic" than any other way of showing how fucking retarded they are. In fact, methods like this are the most effective at displaying how fucking absurd their claims of persecution are.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Dear god does no one else 'assume' sarcasm in this instance? The Religious right is crying "Oppression!" so Vlad gave an example of what REAL oppression was.

Was it a tad extreme? Yes.
Should he have, for the sarcasm impaired, added a wink and a smily? Perhaps.
Does anyone think hes really advocating gassing People in full fledged murder? Well FSM I hope not...

That said the fact that these people so casually scream "Oppression!" or make Nazi comparisons at the drop of a hat show immensely out of touch they are from reality. Any kid that goes through history by grade 7 or 8 should know the full and utter Horror of the holocaust and what the Nazi's did. Which means if you are STILL comparing things like.. Oh, say getting rid of pray in public schools, to Nazi extermination, then your sense of self importance is so hopelessly skewed you really can't be of use in modern society. Unless of course you DON"T believe it, and are just saying its like Nazis to get a rise our of others,,, In which case your just as much an Asshole.
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
Zed
Padawan Learner
Posts: 487
Joined: 2010-05-19 08:56pm

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Zed »

Flagg wrote:God you people are fucking idiots. Using holocaust imagery hyperbole to point out how absurd the Christian Rights claims of persecution are is no more hate speech or subsurface "Nazi Logic" than any other way of showing how fucking retarded they are. In fact, methods like this are the most effective at displaying how fucking absurd their claims of persecution are.
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Dear god does no one else 'assume' sarcasm in this instance? The Religious right is crying "Oppression!" so Vlad gave an example of what REAL oppression was.

Was it a tad extreme? Yes.
Should he have, for the sarcasm impaired, added a wink and a smily? Perhaps.
Does anyone think hes really advocating gassing People in full fledged murder? Well FSM I hope not...

That said the fact that these people so casually scream "Oppression!" or make Nazi comparisons at the drop of a hat show immensely out of touch they are from reality. Any kid that goes through history by grade 7 or 8 should know the full and utter Horror of the holocaust and what the Nazi's did. Which means if you are STILL comparing things like.. Oh, say getting rid of pray in public schools, to Nazi extermination, then your sense of self importance is so hopelessly skewed you really can't be of use in modern society. Unless of course you DON"T believe it, and are just saying its like Nazis to get a rise our of others,,, In which case your just as much an Asshole.
Zed wrote:It's intentionally hyperbolic exasperation speech like that which gives the theocrats more and more ammunition to claim they're being oppressed. Intentionally hyperbolic speech also serves as an enabler for people who are serious about such opinions. And they apparently exist, as Alyrium Denryle just illustrates.
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Zed wrote: It's intentionally hyperbolic exasperation speech like that which gives the theocrats more and more ammunition to claim they're being oppressed.
Good for them, but I don't think you can exactly starve these people out of ammunition. The simple fact that they are becoming so outraged over non-offenses like these goes to show that they can manufacture their own on a whim, and it will be revoking their special privileges in society that will get us somewhere with them, not bending over backwards to avoid saying anything they'd dislike.
Intentionally hyperbolic speech also serves as an enabler for people who are serious about such opinions. And they apparently exist, as Alyrium Denryle just illustrates.
I agree that it enables. You'll also agree that the people it's enabling are a comically tiny minority who are in a position to do absolutely bupkis. Christians are not homosexuals or transsexuals; they're not overpowered and outnumbered by hatemongers who just need the tiniest bit of encouragement from enabling comments.
Image
User avatar
Admiral Valdemar
Outside Context Problem
Posts: 31572
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:17pm
Location: UK

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

And we should give a shit about their opinions because...? I may as well stop pointing out evolutionary theory fuck-ups to creationists, as this would give them more ammunition for their pet conspiracy also. This is the same stupid logic running parallel to "Pull out of Afghanistan, else the terrorists will get madder!". They're their own worse enemy, what we do adds nothing.

My point stands. And Obama is doing good to rub this in their faces.
Last edited by Admiral Valdemar on 2010-06-03 03:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
Channel72
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2068
Joined: 2010-02-03 05:28pm
Location: New York

Re: Obama declares June "GLBT" month. Christians cry Oppress

Post by Channel72 »

The Christian right doesn't have much of a choice other than to complain, if they want to remain true to their religion. LGBT issues are really troublesome for them, because deviating from heterosexuality is one "sin" that mainstream society not only tolerates, but is actually beginning to celebrate. Sure, the fundies also complain about pornography, violence, indecency in the media and all that - but none of these things are actually celebrated or explicitly endorsed by the government. Until now, the government hasn't really begun to actually explicitly celebrate homosexuality either.

In fact, the whole LGBT civil rights issue is interesting, because it's one area where it's almost impossible to "reinterpret" away the Biblical position on homosexuality. With former civil rights issues, it wasn't always as clear what the Bible actually said regarding the matter, and so the Christian right was eventually able to grudgingly fall in line with mainstream progressives.

For example, there's nothing in the Bible that explicitly says Africans are somehow inferior, (unless you really stretch Genesis 9:24). Even interracial marriage is easy to justify on Biblical grounds, considering the ban on interracial marriage in the Old Testament applied to a specific historical situation, and could easily be interpreted as not being universally applicable. But with homosexuality, there's really no wiggle room. The ban on homosexuality is simply too clear, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Sure, people argue that the prohibitions in Leviticus apply only to temple prostitution or what have you, or that the Greek in the New Testament doesn't necessarily refer to homosexuality. But these arguments are generally quite debatable and very involved, and they don't do much to dispel the overall notion of marriage as a sacred institution between man and woman originating with Adam and Eve.

So I think it's going to take more than an overall mainstream cultural acceptance to get the fundies in line with progressives when it comes to LGBT rights.
Post Reply