Tell me about Alpha Protocol

[Stark]

And now that they're hell old it's obvious which ones are good and which aren't, so there's less risk and requirement to 'play them all' just to see.

He doesn't have to sink 97 hours into Dragon Age to play Awakenings, because we know it blows.

[Havok]

There is absolutely zero chance of me ever getting a console.

Why?

[Stark]

Then he wouldn't be able to complain as much when PC ports suck, PC versions don't exist, upgrades are expensive, etc?

Actually hav, did you link you XBL to your MSN?

[Havok]

Actually hav, did you link you XBL to your MSN?

Uh... wat?

[Stofsk]

Just how good is Alpha Protocol on the PC? There is absolutely zero chance of me ever getting a console. Is the game enjoyable? How does it compare to other action RPGs?

It looks a lot like Mass Effect 2, which I understand is because they're done using the same engine.

It works more or less like gravy, but I find the combat aspects a bit different to ME2, which is my only point of comparison to 3rd person shooter/rpg hybrids. For example, in ME2 Shepard is in combat mode all the time when on a mission, but in AP you have to hold RMB in order to aim, then LMB to shoot. You kinda do have to do the same in ME2, but only if you want to aim lol. But if you want to fire at all in AP, you need to hold RMB first.

The only real and valid complaint I have is the hacking mini-game, which frustrated me when I first came across it because the mouse control and the kb control are suboptimal. However, I don't know whether because I've gotten used to it or because I have extra time due to having skill in hacking plus the hacking gloves (lol) which increases the time. It's one of those things that they don't explain well and you need to do it again and again before you realise what they want you to do and how to do it in a quick way before the timer expires and alarms go off.

So far it's fun. Unlike ME2 where its you and two others, in this it's just you and occasionally a disembodied voice from one of the NPCs to give you guidance or plot developments. You can try being stealthy, or you can just run and gun. So far I've just been running and gunning - blame it on my Michael Thorton being a rookie recruit.

And now that they're hell old it's obvious which ones are good and which aren't, so there's less risk and requirement to 'play them all' just to see.

He doesn't have to sink 97 hours into Dragon Age to play Awakenings, because we know it blows.

Shit, wish someone had told me Awakenings sucked before I went out and bought it.

The Witcher is on my backlog. I think I'll play it next after I finish my playthrough of AP. I also want to get into Fallout 3. But hey, the point is I can waste my life playing computer games now rather than waste my life staring at four walls.

[Stark]

Hotfoot tells me the PC version of AP is crap due to control issues. It's ok if you plug in a 360 controller though, which Aly obviously won't have. Ironing guns being a hold is pretty typical of shooters on PC, however. Hots had the same issues with the hacking, since it's a really shit translation from two sticks.

Hawx and I were talking this morning and seriously, the fact that you can make a stereotypically 'evil' or 'wrong' choice without dreading what commuppance the developer has in store for you is refreshing.

And Stofsk, I don't mean to ruin my REPUTATION or anything, but I was really talking to Vympel. His backlog and I go way back.

EDIT - oh, and I finally saw some bugs. Sometimes the checkpointing gets confused, and you respawn at a previous checkpoint, but with everything you did between the recent and second-recent one still done (everyone dead etc). Sherry got a checkpoint that respawned everything behind her once.

[Alyeska]

Then he wouldn't be able to complain as much when PC ports suck, PC versions don't exist, upgrades are expensive, etc?

Complain about upgrades being expensive? I take pride in paying a shitload of money to play games on the PC. I've bought two different $2,500 computers in the last 4 and a half years. I pay for quality. And I am willing to pay a lot of money to get access to a mouse and keyboard.

I have no intention of getting a console because they use controllers and do not effectively support mice and keyboards. Because they are not as easy to mod the games as on the PC. If the game doesn't exist on the PC, I don't want to play it.

[Alyeska]

Hotfoot tells me the PC version of AP is crap due to control issues. It's ok if you plug in a 360 controller though, which Aly obviously won't have. Ironing guns being a hold is pretty typical of shooters on PC, however. Hots had the same issues with the hacking, since it's a really shit translation from two sticks.

Ironing guns? Being a hold? Would you care to elaborate?

[Stark]

That's a pretty absurdly dogmatic thing to say. AP is only on PC for appearances sake (and it's an awful port) and it's probably the RPG of the year. Try learning a new skill and branching out a bit instead of sitting on the toilet with blinders on.

But then you can't explain why controllers are bad (particularly in a thread about a game where the controller is better) so you're clearly talking about your own inability to use them. Everyone starts out crap, but if my girlfriend can go from turning the wrong way to outscoring me in Gears in three months I'm sure you can do better.

EDIT - Are you serious? Ironing up (looking down the iron sights) is typically a hold function on all platforms. In third person ironing is just 'zoom in a bit' or 'put crosshair on screen', but it's very seldom a toggle function. Stofsk needs to play some Gears!

[Alyeska]

That's a pretty absurdly dogmatic thing to say. AP is only on PC for appearances sake (and it's an awful port) and it's probably the RPG of the year. Try learning a new skill and branching out a bit instead of sitting on the toilet with blinders on.

But then you can't explain why controllers are bad (particularly in a thread about a game where the controller is better) so you're clearly talking about your own inability to use them. Everyone starts out crap, but if my girlfriend can go from turning the wrong way to outscoring me in Gears in three months I'm sure you can do better.

Jack of all trades, master of nothing.

The mouse and keyboard offers superior controls in the majority of games that I play. And I use customization heavily.

I don't critique people for playing games on their preferred system, so take your attitude and fucking shove it up your sanctimonious ass Stark. You can fucking kiss my ass you worthless shit stain.

[Alyeska]

EDIT - Are you serious? Ironing up (looking down the iron sights) is typically a hold function on all platforms. In third person ironing is just 'zoom in a bit' or 'put crosshair on screen', but it's very seldom a toggle function. Stofsk needs to play some Gears!

Ironing

Iron Sights

Two different concepts.

[Stark]

Jack of all trades, master of nothing.

Excuse me? What does this even mean? Are you saying consoles are bad because you're better than me at PC games?

The mouse and keyboard offers superior controls in the majority of games that I play. And I use customization heavily.

So what? Planes are faster than cars but I still drive. The value of 'customisation' decreases as you drop from 120 buttons to 17, so how is that important? How would you 'customise' the controls for Gears or Halo or Saints Row, beyond what you can already change? You're the elitist here, I'm just a guy with an open mind and flexible attitudes. The only person making outrageous declarations here is you. I'm just expressing the value of change and learning.

I don't critique people for playing games on their preferred system, so take your attitude and fucking shove it up your sanctimonious ass Stark. You can fucking kiss my ass you worthless shit stain.

*I'M* being sanctimonious? I'm not the one saying hilarious stuff like 'if a game isn't on PC I don't want to play it'. Owning a PC and playing games on it isn't a religion you know; you're allowed to go wherever in the market the good games are. Are you just offended that I pointed out people learn new control systems? Are you afraid of learning curves?

Ironing

Iron Sights

Two different concepts.

Uh... ok. Did you seriously think I meant 'ironing clothes'? Of course not. I only bothered to mention it because Stofsk may not play enough shooters to know that holding to iron is quite standard these days.

Sorry, is that me being sanctimonious again?

EDIT - I'm deeply interested to know if you'll insist on playing AP with the (broken) keyboard controls out of sheer PC Fan Orthodoxy. You probably don't have a controller anyway, but honestly, would you use it if you did?

[Alyeska]

Excuse me? What does this even mean? Are you saying consoles are bad because you're better than me at PC games?

We were talking about Controllers as specifically outlined in your very post I was talking about. Do pay attention.

So what? Planes are faster than cars but I still drive. The value of 'customisation' decreases as you drop from 120 buttons to 17, so how is that important? How would you 'customise' the controls for Gears or Halo or Saints Row, beyond what you can already change? You're the elitist here, I'm just a guy with an open mind and flexible attitudes. The only person making outrageous declarations here is you. I'm just expressing the value of change and learning.

I am happy with PC gaming. You decided to needle me for being a PC gamer. You are either a prick, or an idiot.

*I'M* being sanctimonious? I'm not the one saying hilarious stuff like 'if a game isn't on PC I don't want to play it'. Owning a PC and playing games on it isn't a religion you know; you're allowed to go wherever in the market the good games are. Are you just offended that I pointed out people learn new control systems? Are you afraid of learning curves?

I don't give a shit if you still play the NES or if your preferred console is the X-B0x 2.360. You decided to needle me on the issue of my preferred system. I have decided to tell you to GO FUCK OFF.

[Alyeska]

"Some guy who can't edit his replies"

Different post, so post the reply as a different post.

Uh... ok. Did you seriously think I meant 'ironing clothes'? Of course not. I only bothered to mention it because Stofsk may not play enough shooters to know that holding to iron is quite standard these days.

I didn't have a clue what you were saying, what with your PR1 violation of a sentence.

Sorry, is that me being sanctimonious again?

No, just a waste of a human being.

[Stark]

Grow up. I don't care if you're a PC gamer; I am too, surprise surprise. It's your dogmatic attitude I find amusing and limiting.

It isn't MY fault you're laughably insecure about your refusal to touch a controller for... some... reason. And sorry, you still haven't explained how 'jack of all trades etc' is relevant. Do you mean... controllers are a jack of all trades? Console gamers are? People you don't like? Sadly, I prefer to assess something's worth by actual performance and not adherence to some ideal standard.

Y'know, some PC games are better using a controller. Do you own one? Will you play AP with the awful keyboard controls out of orthodoxy?

[Alyeska]

Grow up. I don't care if you're a PC gamer; I am too, surprise surprise. It's your dogmatic attitude I find amusing and limiting.

I am happy to limit myself to something I enjoy. I do not enjoy sticking icepicks under my finger nails. And thats about as fun as using a controller.

It isn't MY fault you're laughably insecure about your refusal to touch a controller for... some... reason. And sorry, you still haven't explained how 'jack of all trades etc' is relevant. Do you mean... controllers are a jack of all trades? Console gamers are? People you don't like? Sadly, I prefer to assess something's worth by actual performance and not adherence to some ideal standard.

I'm not going to rewrite my statement in crayon so that you can better understand it. Go back and read things again. Consider the context of what was being said. Its not my fault you got lost on a one-way street.

Y'know, some PC games are better using a controller. Do you own one? Will you play AP with the awful keyboard controls out of orthodoxy?

If its better on a controller, I don't own it or wish I hadn't bought it. Based on the reviews I am hearing over AP, I will avoid it.

[Stark]

I do not enjoy sticking icepicks under my finger nails. And thats about as fun as using a controller.

If its better on a controller, I don't own it or wish I hadn't bought it. Based on the reviews I am hearing over AP, I will avoid it.

This is awesome. Not only dogmatic but you'll hide this by claiming you'll avoid it based on reviews, despite everyone in this thread saying they're all wrong. Have fun missing probably the only good RPG of the year based on controller germs.

I'm not going to rewrite my statement in crayon so that you can better understand it. Go back and read things again. Consider the context of what was being said. Its not my fault you got lost on a one-way street.

Guess it didn't actually mean shit, then.

Back to the actual non-religious point, Zod is playing AP right now and struggling with the first few hacking games. This is very common; I don't think anyone except Hotfoot found it easy (and poor Hotfoot got saddled with shitbox old keyboard and mouse dinosaur controls). I got used to it pretty fast, but Sherry still struggles with it and just uses EMPs to skip them.

EDIT - christ tags finally work

[Havok]

Then he wouldn't be able to complain as much when PC ports suck, PC versions don't exist, upgrades are expensive, etc?

Complain about upgrades being expensive? I take pride in paying a shitload of money to play games on the PC. I've bought two different $2,500 computers in the last 4 and a half years. I pay for quality. And I am willing to pay a lot of money to get access to a mouse and keyboard.

I have no intention of getting a console because they use controllers and do not effectively support mice and keyboards. Because they are not as easy to mod the games as on the PC. If the game doesn't exist on the PC, I don't want to play it.

Wow. So you are just a pompous mouse and keyboard elitist. Although I find it interesting that you actually take pride in bad decisions... $5,000 in four years to play games that you can play on an XboX that cost $300 just so you can use a mouse... awesome.

I mean with a game like Gears or ME2... what exactly can't you do with a controller that you can do with a mouse and keyboard? I am really interested in this.

Jack of all trades, master of nothing.

Actually that would make you that Jack of one trade and the master of nothing.

The mouse and keyboard offers superior controls in the majority of games that I play. And I use customization heavily.

Wait, you mean the mouse and keyboard offer superior controls for games designed to be played with the mouse and keyboard. So why not use your, y'know, brain, and play games on a console that are designed to be used with... wait for it... a controller?

I don't critique people for playing games on their preferred system, so take your attitude and fucking shove it up your sanctimonious ass Stark. You can fucking kiss my ass you worthless shit stain.

He isn't critiquing you for playing computers games and liking them the best, he is doing it because you are a computer games only snob that won't play console games because you don't know how to use a controller and can't put your nudie mods on Gears. There is a difference.

[Stofsk]

Hotfoot tells me the PC version of AP is crap due to control issues. It's ok if you plug in a 360 controller though, which Aly obviously won't have. Ironing guns being a hold is pretty typical of shooters on PC, however.

Oh yeah, I think I'm not explaining myself well. To use ME as an example, it's a separate key to draw a gun and have Shepard hold it ready to fire, but there's nothing in AP like that. Instead, drawing a gun is the same as aiming it, if that makes sense? So in ME I could run around without having drawn a weapon, or if I had drawn it, I just need to push the LMB to fire, and if I want to aim then RMB to aim. But AP just has the draw&aim function in the one control, being the RMB.

I fear I may not be explaining what I mean, but I should also clarify this wasn't meant as a criticism against AP. Just as a 'lol haven't gotten totally used to it yet' sort of thing.

Hots had the same issues with the hacking, since it's a really shit translation from two sticks.

It's the only gripe I have, yet I seem to have gotten used to it. It was only ever an issue in the tute mission, where I didn't know what they wanted me to do and I didn't know how they wanted me to do it (mainly the second one). If they could just fix the controls for it it would be fine. Once you know what you're doing the hardest thing is actually getting the code strings where they need to go, and its the control mechanism that makes it stressful.

Hawx and I were talking this morning and seriously, the fact that you can make a stereotypically 'evil' or 'wrong' choice without dreading what commuppance the developer has in store for you is refreshing.

Yeah, it is nice. The dialogue system is also interesting because of the timer on your response. No going back if you insult someone.

And Stofsk, I don't mean to ruin my REPUTATION or anything, but I was really talking to Vympel. His backlog and I go way back.

Heh it's cool. I've ribbed Vympel in person even (but then he gets his revenge by kicking my ass when we play fighter games on his PS3).

EDIT - oh, and I finally saw some bugs. Sometimes the checkpointing gets confused, and you respawn at a previous checkpoint, but with everything you did between the recent and second-recent one still done (everyone dead etc). Sherry got a checkpoint that respawned everything behind her once.

So far I haven't noticed any bugs, but the 'save last checkpoint' thing is annoying. I'm too used to being able to save anytime and anywhere.

[Stark]

Yeah I know what you meant; in ME you can shoot all the time without penalty, but AP makes you 'slow down' and 'get ready' first, especially with the silly weapon abilities.

And seriously Sherry took like five minutes to get into the stealth course because of that console. She carries 4 EMPs everywhere now.

I found the timers itneresting - some options run out at the end of the other dialog, so you sometimes want to suddenly change but have no time. Other times you get a giant timer of EYEBROW RAISING and SQUINTING that you can't skip even if you know what you want to say.

Checkpointing is a really common problem from console -> PC games. On console it's all about placement and density of checkpoints, but PC is all about save-load whoring.

[Stofsk]

Yeah I know what you meant; in ME you can shoot all the time without penalty, but AP makes you 'slow down' and 'get ready' first, especially with the silly weapon abilities.

And seriously Sherry took like five minutes to get into the stealth course because of that console. She carries 4 EMPs everywhere now.

I must be doing stealth wrong, because I keep getting spotted. That's why I keep running and gunning - stupid rookie recruit 'Shit I've been spotted I better KILL EVERYONE I SEE'

I found the timers itneresting - some options run out at the end of the other dialog, so you sometimes want to suddenly change but have no time. Other times you get a giant timer of EYEBROW RAISING and SQUINTING that you can't skip even if you know what you want to say.

Yeah, sometimes the timer is too quick. Not a bug, but lack of polish? Yeah. Still a great concept. Because you can't save before a convo you also can't reload and do things differently - it has the effect of keeping you on your toes when you make conversation with people, which brings you into the moment.

[Stark]

Sherry is surprisingly really good at the stealth; I think people like us are too used to 'gamey' stealth where we get vision ranges and saving throws and shit, whereas she just waits for people to be looking the other way. Silent Running is excellent, and the pistol-5 skill (that lets you do critical shots without aiming out of cover) really helps too. I'm like you; I'm sneaky for a bit, then someone sees me and the shotgun comes out. Hawx tells me that flashbangs can disable a whole room of guys for long enough to take them all down, too, but I've never used them. I like fire.

I would speculate that the long timers on dialog are SUPPOSED to be skippable; it's a low-pressure convo where the player is given the benefit of 'thinking time'. It's only odd because you have to watch people gurn for a while before Mike says anything.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

For the record, AP is fine on PC. It's only the hacking game (and to a lesser extent, lockpicking) which blows shit. I've failed hacks and gotten alarms simply because I get three misclicks in a row trying to keep the mouse highlighted sequence on the spot it needs to stay on, or because the shit keyboard half physically moves slower than the "reset" timer.

[Flagg]

I used to be a "mouse and keyboard elitist" when it came to shooters. Turns out that translates into "requires no real skill to play". I have a fuckton more fun playing Gears2 on 360 than I ever have playing point and click shooters on PC.

[Stark]

For the record, AP is fine on PC. It's only the hacking game (and to a lesser extent, lockpicking) which blows shit. I've failed hacks and gotten alarms simply because I get three misclicks in a row trying to keep the mouse highlighted sequence on the spot it needs to stay on, or because the shit keyboard half physically moves slower than the "reset" timer.

This is a flaw across platforms. Even on 360, you can spot the code and not make it because the speed you can move the overlay thing is so slow. I got into the habit of keeping the one I'm not currently placing moving just to increase the odds it'll be close to the destination. I would have preferred some kind of multi-click thing (click start and end of sequence) or something rather than moving them one square at a time.