Religious relativity...

Cap'n Hector · Post by **Cap'n Hector** » 2003-02-19 04:31am

I don't think this has been posted before...

I was listening to a fundie in math class a few years ago, and he was telling someone else about how all he needed to do was accept Jesus into his heart and he'd go to heaven...this set off my bullshit meter.

I asked him what would happen if I killed a priest and
then accpted Jesus. With no hesitation, he told me I'd go to heaven.

So I asked him, how about if I kill a bunch of priests and accept Jesus. Again, I'm still OK.

At this point, the possible convert is looking a bit nervous.

I checked what would happen if I went in and blew away the entire College of Cardinals. And then accepting Jesus. That's right...I could even beat them there.

Finally, I asked what would happen if I tortured all the people in the Vatican and upper echelons of the church to death while continously blaspheming. Now then, I did forget to add the bit about accepting Jesus, but apparently I'd still go to heaven.

By this time, the possible convert wasn't interested anymore. I can't imagine why...

Religious relativity. Making particle physics seem like child's play.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-19 06:25am

*laughs* Its great when they admit its not what you do....its what you say at the end....

That just makes sooo much sense

Morat · Post by **Morat** » 2003-02-19 08:21am

The apologist in question would probably have been wise to point out that salvation would require true repentance of sin, and that simply saying that you accept Christ doesn't have any effect unless it is meant from the heart.

...Assuming he believes that, of course.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-19 09:32am

As I understand it, you can go on a rape and pillage spree through Italy, accept Jesus int your heart and you'll go to Heaven. It's a concept called repentance.
Of course, you have to REALLY repent, not just pay lip service to God. He knows, y'know...

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-02-19 09:47am

innerbrat wrote:Of course, you have to REALLY repent, not just pay lip service to God. He knows, y'know...

Yahveh thinks that the Earth is flat and there are treasures of the hail in the heavens. The guy is clearly quite ignorant.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-02-19 10:16am

What an idiotic concept. What I'd love to do is ask those Christians this: "Okay, so I'm a cannibalistic rapist baby-killing mass murder, but I've repented and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, so I'm okay and forgiven by God. Now, how about YOU. Let's say it was your wife I raped and killed and ate, your baby I tortured and killed. God has forgiven me because I've repented in my heart - now how about you, church-boy? After all, if the omnipotent creator and finite judge of all humanity is letting me off, who are YOU to pass sentencing on me?"

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-19 10:58am

Because God knows whether you've actually repented and will ever do it again. No humans do.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-19 11:05am

innerbrat wrote:As I understand it, you can go on a rape and pillage spree through Italy, accept Jesus int your heart and you'll go to Heaven. It's a concept called repentance.
Of course, you have to REALLY repent, not just pay lip service to God. He knows, y'know...

In other words, you don't have to feel sorry for any of your previous actions. Just accept Jesus into your heart afterwards. After all it is your faith that gets you into heaven, not your actions.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-19 11:08am

neoolong wrote:
innerbrat wrote:As I understand it, you can go on a rape and pillage spree through Italy, accept Jesus int your heart and you'll go to Heaven. It's a concept called repentance.
Of course, you have to REALLY repent, not just pay lip service to God. He knows, y'know...
In other words, you don't have to feel sorry for any of your previous actions. Just accept Jesus into your heart afterwards. After all it is your faith that gets you into heaven, not your actions.

Uhhh.. yeah, s'right.
But you can't do it again if you're living by Jesus' law...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-19 11:58am

Ah yes, the old Hitler goes to heaven while Gandhi goes to hell bit. Not exactly a good advertising slogan for Christianity.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-02-19 02:28pm

it was that philisophy that kind of turned me against the established doctrine. . . lol.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-02-19 02:32pm

When fundies witness to potential converts, I always ask them about the "dead rising from the grave" stuff in Revelation. People don't seem to stick around for long after that...

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-19 02:37pm

innerbrat wrote:
neoolong wrote:
innerbrat wrote:As I understand it, you can go on a rape and pillage spree through Italy, accept Jesus int your heart and you'll go to Heaven. It's a concept called repentance.
Of course, you have to REALLY repent, not just pay lip service to God. He knows, y'know...
In other words, you don't have to feel sorry for any of your previous actions. Just accept Jesus into your heart afterwards. After all it is your faith that gets you into heaven, not your actions.
Uhhh.. yeah, s'right.
But you can't do it again if you're living by Jesus' law...

That's what a deathbed confession is for.

Cap'n Hector · Post by **Cap'n Hector** » 2003-02-19 04:21pm

Superman wrote:When fundies witness to potential converts, I always ask them about the "dead rising from the grave" stuff in Revelation. People don't seem to stick around for long after that...

Plus, as I recall, only a few hundred thousand people will be saved at that point...I get the feeling that all the slots are filled already..

Morat · Post by **Morat** » 2003-02-19 04:25pm

What an idiotic concept. What I'd love to do is ask those Christians this: "Okay, so I'm a cannibalistic rapist baby-killing mass murder, but I've repented and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, so I'm okay and forgiven by God. Now, how about YOU. Let's say it was your wife I raped and killed and ate, your baby I tortured and killed. God has forgiven me because I've repented in my heart - now how about you, church-boy? After all, if the omnipotent creator and finite judge of all humanity is letting me off, who are YOU to pass sentencing on me?"

I'd forgive you. I probably couldn't stop myself from feeling anger and resentment towards you, but I wouldn't condemn you or wish punishment on you.

In other words, you don't have to feel sorry for any of your previous actions. Just accept Jesus into your heart afterwards.

There is no such thing as repentance without contrition.

That's what a deathbed confession is for.

Except that it is unlikely that a deathbed confession comes from the heart. If you really believed in God and had a contrite heart, you would have wanted to be saved as soon as possible.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-19 04:36pm

If you murder my son and you repent, and you truly understand that what you did was wrong, then you will fucking understand when I take a goddamned circular saw and cut you in half from the crotch up.

No apology or repentance can make up for something like that, and it is a ridiculous Christian brainbug to believe that if someone repents, this somehow absolves him of responsibility for the crime, so that he does not have to face punishment.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-19 04:57pm

Morat wrote:
What an idiotic concept. What I'd love to do is ask those Christians this: "Okay, so I'm a cannibalistic rapist baby-killing mass murder, but I've repented and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, so I'm okay and forgiven by God. Now, how about YOU. Let's say it was your wife I raped and killed and ate, your baby I tortured and killed. God has forgiven me because I've repented in my heart - now how about you, church-boy? After all, if the omnipotent creator and finite judge of all humanity is letting me off, who are YOU to pass sentencing on me?"
I'd forgive you. I probably couldn't stop myself from feeling anger and resentment towards you, but I wouldn't condemn you or wish punishment on you.

In other words, you don't have to feel sorry for any of your previous actions. Just accept Jesus into your heart afterwards.
There is no such thing as repentance without contrition.

That's what a deathbed confession is for.
Except that it is unlikely that a deathbed confession comes from the heart. If you really believed in God and had a contrite heart, you would have wanted to be saved as soon as possible.

Except from the way it went is that you only have to let Jesus into your heart. That has nothing to do with being sorry for your actions.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-02-19 07:37pm

You can do any number of horrific acts, repent, and be saved. However, if you blaspheme the holy ghost, there is no forgiveness for you. So, if I say something like "Casper the Holy Ghost", I can count on hell. Ah, fuck, I went and did it.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-02-19 08:10pm

However, if you blaspheme the holy ghost, there is no forgiveness for you. So, if I say something like "Casper the Holy Ghost", I can count on hell. Ah, fuck, I went and did it.

Um, if you're blasphemizing God, you obviously don't want God's forgiveness.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-19 08:20pm

Frank Hipper wrote:You can do any number of horrific acts, repent, and be saved. However, if you blaspheme the holy ghost, there is no forgiveness for you. So, if I say something like "Casper the Holy Ghost", I can count on hell. Ah, fuck, I went and did it.

Ah ... the poor Holy Spirit. He's traditionally the neglected part of the Trinity. People shout, "Oh God!" when they're climaxing, say, "Jesus help me!" in a tough situation, but no one really asks the Holy Spirit for anything. No one says, "Oh Holy Spirit!" when he's cumming all over his partner's face, or "Come on, Holy Spirit, get me through this exam."

Sure, the Church has tried to expand the Holy Spirit's role through Confirmation. Apparently, Casper comes down from Heaven and fills you with virtues ... or something. But no one really gives a shit. Confirmation is a joke sacrament (well, they all are, but this one especially). It's just an excuse for a party and spreading the rumor that, once you're confirmed, you no longer have to go to Church.

So, the poor Holy Spirit is left with nothing to distinguish himself except for people in movies calling him "the Holy Ghost" to give a more serious tone to the line. Poor Casper.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-19 08:21pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
However, if you blaspheme the holy ghost, there is no forgiveness for you. So, if I say something like "Casper the Holy Ghost", I can count on hell. Ah, fuck, I went and did it.
Um, if you're blasphemizing God, you obviously don't want God's forgiveness.

Right, the forgiveness of unrepentent mass-murderers doesn't carry a whole lot of weight, anyway.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-02-19 08:26pm

Right, the forgiveness of unrepentent mass-murderers doesn't carry a whole lot of weight, anyway.

-shuns the unbeliever-

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-02-19 08:49pm

Darth Wong wrote:If you murder my son and you repent, and you truly understand that what you did was wrong, then you will fucking understand when I take a goddamned circular saw and cut you in half from the crotch up.

From the crotch up, eh? I need to write that down somewhere...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-02-19 08:51pm

Mike, you of all people should know that circular saws cant cut through the human body. The blade isnt big enough! Now a chainsaw, thats different.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-02-19 09:29pm

The circular saw should leave the spine intact, allowing the "victim" feel everything (until he/she passes out or dies from extreme pain, blood lose or structural failure of the heart).