GRIMDARK: WH40k Dark Millenium Online

[General Zod]

Speaking of 40k games, we've got a new trailer with some gameplay footage for the 40k Space Marine 3ps being developed by Relic. http://kotaku.com/5563451/warhammer-40k ... st-trailer

I think I want this more than Gears 3.

[Jaevric]

I'd probably handle psykers overloading themselves similarly to Bright Wizards/Sorceresses in WAR, only with fewer explosions and more tentacled horrors from beyond space and time. Another option, in groups, would be to start fucking with the targeting of psyker powers the power they're throwing around. Sure, you're unleashing an unholy beatdown, but oooh shit, you just made your heavy weapons team's eyes boil by accident.

Oops.

Yeah, the main problem with BW/Sorcs from WAR was that their "disadvantage" was a fairly easy workaround. Bring a healer. I'd rather see Psykers require actual skill to play to be incredibly powerful, not just require a pocket healbot -- no offense to any BW/Sorc players, some of them were awesome, but a lot of them were pretty awful when I was playing WAR.

I'd have various Bad Stuff be possible depending on luck and how hard the psyker has been pushing/how long they've been pushing. I wouldn't have "mana" be the main limitation for psyker damage, I'd want them to have plenty of rope to hang themselves (and their teammates) with. Bad Stuff would include: debuffing nearby allies, damaging nearby allies/enemies, basically exploding with out-of-control warp energies and doing a LOT of damage to nearby allies (and enemies), summoning lesser daemons that will fuck things up if people aren't on the ball, and if the Psyker has *REALLY* been pushing his luck, I'd have him suddenly get flagged as an enemy player and give his teammates/raid party a brief timeframe in which they can turn around and kill the psyker before he dies and spawns a major daemon.

Basically, a psyker wouldn't normally do more damage than a well-geared Guard squad, but if the psyker was willing to take risks, he'd be able to really push the damage up -- but a good psyker would be one that knew when to push DPS and when to cool off for a while. Bad psykers would be very obvious very quickly.

The main problem I see with what I'd want to do with psykers is the incredibly high potential for griefing. "Oh, I didn't get the loot I wanted. Well, I'll just see how they like having a Greater Daemon spawn in the middle of the next boss fight! Muahahahahaha!"

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Just make a simple concession in the sake of gameplay and limit Perils of the Warp shit to only hurting the psyker. So if a daemon pops up, the group can shoot it and try to save the psyker, but if not then the daemon just eats the psyker and is satisfied, leaving the group alone.

[white_rabbit]

Looks very nice, but its an MMO, and I can't be bothered to play them.

So I'll take a freebie period download, then never play again, because it'll do nothing new, and it just wants to leech some WoW cash.

meh, it doesn't even look particularly pretty either.


The 3PS looks like MUCH more fun, although the hopeless 40k nerd in me wishes they'd make bolters be actual bolters for once, but at least it isn't a "distraction" tool like the other daft buggers were going to make it.

If it doesn't have co-op though, it'll be tremendously retarded, and the developers will need a big slap.

Really though, I'm expect it to be Gears of Warhammer 40k, which is fine.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

The 3PS looks like MUCH more fun, although the hopeless 40k nerd in me wishes they'd make bolters be actual bolters for once, but at least it isn't a "distraction" tool like the other daft buggers were going to make it.

Yeah, that's a huge pet-peeve of mine. We haven't had proper bolters since Chaos Gate (mmm, 1-shotting cultists).

As a bit of an audiophile, though, what really gets me is the sound. Dawn of War was particularly bad about it, with what sounded like someone flipping through a paper booklet for sound effects. I want to hear a meaty KA-THUD KA-THUD KA-THUD, dammit.

[Serafina]

Oh, yes, proper bolters.
Three rounds rapid, rocket propelled armor piercing explosive goodness. Blowing apart demons and heretics, bringing down even the mighties of the Malleus.
Sigh...a girl can dream

[ZGundam]

Maybe instead of a regular space Marine you can play a Tech Marine, an Apothocary, or even a Dreadnaught.

I beleive the trailer showed a Dreadnaught in action.

[Imperial Overlord]

There's an Admech in several parts of the teaser and one of the stills and being cyber augmented to the gills and geared up means they can they're a possible player option if a Black Templar is the base line. On top of that, Black Templars don't have psykers so the psyker character isn't going to be a Marine and thus squishier than the Marine characters when it comes to how they're going to balance it.

[Covenant]

I see no reason to assume the Guardsmen will be playable. They'd make great NPC fluff squads to massacre your way through as Chaos or an Ork, same as cultists and other heretics would as a Marine. I do hope that the Orkz are playable though--they seem to be. We see boyz and trukkz rolling around, and that right there would be a huge draw for me. You can keep your silly space marines.

[Koolaidkirby]

i heard of this when it was first started 2 years ago or whenever, glad to see it got going.

also, being a "summoner" commisar sending in expendable guardsmen would be awsome

[dworkin]

The main attraction for being non-Astartes human is freedom. Freedom to choose whatever suite of bod-mods I want and can get my hands on. Freedom to use weapons and devices other than those sanctioned for my use. Freedom to dick around with my latent psychic talents and/or chaos. Freedom to associate with xenos, because hey, I'm just a credit loving mercenary.

Of course this all comes with the freedom to be hunted down like the the xeno-loving, chaos-worshipping mutant scum that I am but so long as there are degrees of guilt and / or ways to conceal it that could be fun.

[Manus Celer Dei]

I wonder if we'll actually be able to fight alongside a Titan, or if that will just be for cutscenes.

Now if you could PLAY as one (at least at specific points)...that would be awesome.

"Hey man, finally got my epic mount!"
"Sweet, what is it?"
"IMPERATOR-CLASS TITAN."

[wautd]

The game looks nice enough to give it a try for sure.

I see no reason to assume the Guardsmen will be playable. They'd make great NPC fluff squads to massacre your way through as Chaos or an Ork, same as cultists and other heretics would as a Marine.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Ritterin Sophia]

So apparently the CSMs are Word Bearers.

Awesome, my favorite Chapter and Chaos Legion are part of the game.

[Teleros]

I wonder if we'll actually be able to fight alongside a Titan, or if that will just be for cutscenes.

Now if you could PLAY as one (at least at specific points)...that would be awesome.

"Hey man, finally got my epic mount!"
"Sweet, what is it?"
"IMPERATOR-CLASS TITAN."

Can you imagine people mounting up in 40K-Dalaran though ? And god forbid the vehicle is solid (ie you can't walk through ala WoW). Just stand over the dungeon entrance and /cackle .

[Oskuro]

Looks like the mutant child of WoW and Dawn of War, wich isn't entirely bad.

I'm moderately interested, it isn't as GRIMDARK as it should be, but sight of the vehicles makes my dream of racing on an Ork bike/buggy while yelling/shooting at my competitors a tantalizing possibility.

[ebs2323]

hmm, i hope you can play as a wierd boy, making an 'ead banger in in your raid would be so funny. *cue evil cackle

[Covenant]

As an Ork fan, I don't mind the lack of grim grimness in the grim grumble of the billionth millenium, since it's my opinion that at the core 40k is still a spoof and dark comedy, and that the Orkz are the most overt nod to the 4th wall recognizing this. Since they're in the game you've already gotten locked in for some measure of comedy and lightheartedness, but honestly, even in 40k, a tree isn't... like... evil. People complaining because some area you're in has grass and moss? Really?

The future is grim and their artwork shows off how awful a hiveworld or a battlefield can look. And it's my hope that the main battlefields will indeed look pretty chewed up. Look at the snow map, it looks pretty damned fugly to me. You've got messy tank traps all over, lots of dirty-ass snow, craters, walls, etc. Even the green map has tank traps and other visible warfare garbage. I'm not really sure what'd make people happy about the grimness quotient unless they went with the codex art for in-game stuff, but let's just peel back the veil a moment and admit that using that would bring all the modern hardware to it's knees. Even highly detailed textures without detailed models can crush your latency, and aside from over-use of black ink what makes those illustrations so iconic is their massive detail.

So they've got simplified graphics which are still showing blood-spurting hits, plenty of nice effects, and you've got some run-and-gun mechanics as well as some suitably huge constructs around. That's pretty good, I'd say. A lot more than most people would have expected, I wager.

I'm sure this comment will pop up time and time again, like when the Diablo screenshots leaked and everyone whined about too many colors. Just because the marines arrive in orbit doesn't mean that all plantlife and planetary geographical features disappear. Plus, it really helps areas feel distinct if they actually have a color scheme to work with. That's not to criticize the people who want more grimness, I'm just trying to help them understand why they shouldn't blame the developers for technical issues common to any game.

[Feil]

The only color issue that I have is that the Black Templars in the video appear to be... well... gray. Hopefully by the time the game releases, it will be possible to have gear that is actually black.

[Connor MacLeod]

First off why would you assume the player needs start as a full space marine? I'd think it would start out as an intiiate (un-augmented human) or maybe as a scout. Levelling up could be handled as gaining the implants and such. I mean once the space Marine gets power armor there's not many "options" for enhancement. A scout ( or even the initiate/pre scout stage) would be a good starting point.

Another benefit is simply make Astartes-type characters harder to level up (HP or whatever doesnt necesarily represent ability for the body to take physical damage after all. It could repreesnt luck, training, experience, etc.)

A good IG character wouldn't be a "tanker" type the way a Space Marine is either. you'd either run it like an archer or a rogue type - it relies on indirect means (mines, grenades, other explosives) or heavy long range firepower (speical or heavy weapons, powerful lasgun modifications, etc.) to help win. SPace Marine power armor isn't totally invulnerable, and a weapon with an insanely high ROF, raw power or precision could do it. (critical hits could help too.)

IG characters could be helped by NPC squadmates (fire teams or "units" - up to 5 man groups) would be one way to enhance Guards. A higher level IG character could get exotic gear, augmetics, "infiltration" (stealth), learn tricks like setting traps, etc. At higher levels they might become storm troopers, snipers, and so on.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I mean once the space Marine gets power armor there's not many "options" for enhancement.

Ahhhh, I must disagree with you here Connor.

I think if you do it right, the regular Space Marine has a lot more room for RPG advancement than one might think. At the lowest level, you'd just be Brother Bob, toting a generic bolter and generic armor. But just like in fluff and tabletop, as you advance you get spiffier and shinier. Upgrade your power armor as you go (a little unfluffy, but such is gameplay) by adding a bumpy-pad, a beakie, shinier chest aquilas... and eventually go into the realm of artificer armor and the like. You could have "jewelry" in the form of purity seals giving or representing various bonuses, cloths, scriptures, scrolls... or, since we're talking Black Templar, chains, tomes, censers, incense, candles and of course those sweet surcoats.

Your weapons leave a lot of room too. Get different models of chainswords, better bolters, special bolter ammo, plasma pistols, master-crafted power swords, and on and on and on.

And of course, you could eventually go for that Crux Terminatus and really pimp out your Marine, and go Terminator under the right conditions.

EDIT: Further possibilities if you do something a la Deathwatch and have Apothecary, Tech-Marine, etc. classes.

[Oskuro]

Actually, come to think of it, Space Marine überness can be implemented easily with a regular levelling system. Just grant the Space Marine title when the player hits high level, and it'll be overpowered already.

What I felt the trailer lacked was SPACE. There needs to be space hulk raiding, orbital bombardment/deployment, and ship-to-ship combat, or else this is just reskinned WoW.

Jetpacks would also be nice.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

Graphically it looks about as good as can be expected, and I am fairly glad they are using an art style similar to that they used for Darksiders. I liked it in that game and here too it looks great, painterly yet detailed which suits 40k while still being not too demanding (both on the system and artist's time); certainly better than that terrible style Bioware is using for The Old Republic.

I have to admit at first the look of the landscapes bothered me, but I think that's just a function of the brief shots in the trailer. When you look closer at the details on them they are totally 40k appropriate; sure there's nice green grass in that one... littered with shattered fortifications and the wreckage of hellish war machines.

Also, are people really assuming just based on the trailer that the only playable SM/CSM factions are Dark Templars and World Bearers? Instead of, given the trailer repeatedly only shows a handful of areas, just assuming those guys are the only art assets they have ready? Purely from a marketing point of view, it would knock my socks off if they limited player choice to two minor chapters out of the many, many available.

I'm interested to see what they do for "normal" human PCs; it's a little optimistic to expect them to implement to a whole AI squad based system just to be consistent with the fluff. More likely there will be some rudimentary differences (Space Marines are tanks, Guardsmen are damage dealers), not that I think this is a great idea, just that it is the more likely choice for the fledgling MMO studio to make.

[Coalition]

Female characters can be Imperial guard, then going to Sisters of Battle.

As for Slaanesh troops, I don't think they are going to allow those models.

[Srelex]

What I felt the trailer lacked was SPACE. There needs to be space hulk raiding, orbital bombardment/deployment, and ship-to-ship combat, or else this is just reskinned WoW.

Again, that's something I'd expect them to leave for expansion pack...#3, at a guess.