Pick this apart

[Setzer]

I love my grandparents, but they have an annoying habit of forwarding me chain letters. I was going to write a response myself, but why hog all the fun? For someone who villifies Islamic terrorists, she seems to have no compunction about sinking to their level. Ironic, isn't it?

This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the
U.S., U.K. . and Australia

Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!


Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper.


'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?


Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in
downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a
field in Pennsylvania ?


Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning
or crushing death that day, or didn't they?


And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured
by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in
a brutal insurgency.


I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.


I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable
by beheading in Afghanistan ..


I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off
Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come out
and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques and behind women and children.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of
speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something
happens.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up
an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:

I don't care.


When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and
fed 'special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that
his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your
heart of hearts:

I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and
other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,


I don't care!!

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends.
Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous
behavior!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you
choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed
by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:

'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference
in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.'

I have another quote that I would like to add, AND.......I hope you
forward all this.


One last thought for the day:


Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:


1. Jesus Christ


2. The British Soldier.


3. The Canadian Soldier.


4. The US Soldier, and


5. The Australian Soldier


One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom.




YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET ALL OF THEM.


AMEN!

[Sinewmire]

This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the
U.S., U.K. . and Australia

Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!
Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper.

Aaaah, letters to the editor, a byword for vitriol and small-minded ignorance masquerading as The Man In The Street

'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?

Sure, it's not like there are any causes beyond that. This is obviously the first contact we have had with this "Islam" or "Middle East", I think they were invented recently.
What exactly does a War on Terror entail? This aroused my suspicion that this isn't Canadian, that the idea this woman is Canadian was added to make it look less biased towards America. President Bush declared a War on Terror, was largely derided for it. What's all this "we" business?

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in
downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a
field in Pennsylvania ?

Yes, they were.

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning
or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

Absolutely. The thousands of men, women and children who have died horrible burning or crushing deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan do not, of course, matter, as by being near terrorists they chose to be a part of the War on Terror, right?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured
by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in
a brutal insurgency.

Nobody expects you to care. You are not a justice system. However, if you used your brain for the briefest of minutes you'd run into thoughts like "Does torture produce useful information" "Can we be sure the people we're torturing are members of the Taliban" "Would our Government deliberately hand over prisoners to foreign countries where they will be tortured in order to avoid doing the dirty work themselves" and similar questions. How do you know they're Taliban? Because they're being tortured of course.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

In other words, never. Interesting use of "repent" a word with distinct religious overtones.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable
by beheading in Afghanistan ..

Belief in the bible punishment by beheading? How do you prove belief? What about the peaceable non-Terrorist muslims? Are you saying the Qu'oran is void because of the actions of a powerful few? Surely the same could be said of the bible?

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off
Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

Right. They're sorry. That'll make it all better.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come out
and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques and behind women and children

.

Because it's so much more manly to gun down your opponents from a military base 500 miles away using robots. Seriously, in the 21st century we're still exhorting opponents to "fight like men"?

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

Mindless zealots, of course, being a totally incorrect term to apply to those who are foaming at the mouth in support of the War on Terror without question or hesitation after Abu Ghrai, constant mission creep, discovery we were lied to by our own governments etc,

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of
speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something
happens.

Snerk, right, Canadian media, that's what we're talking about. People saying shit like this makes my blood boil. It's somehow unpatriotic to uphold the freedoms we're apparently fighting for? That it's wrong to investigate governments during wartime and the crimes they commit? What the hell makes you think that freedom of speech is directly opposed to the lives of soldiers on the ground or their faimilies?

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up
an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

Because it's onl wrong when THEY do it.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:

I don't care.

Fair enough, it's the poor sap like Charles de Meneszes who gets shot thanks to our new PATRIOTIC SAFETY anti terror laws.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and
fed 'special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that
his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your
heart of hearts:

I don't care.

Because of course, having your holy symbol flushed down a toilet in front of you is totally acceptable to any fundie. I like the evasion of the word "mishandled", avoiding having to explain whilst suggesting it's a lie.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and
other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,


I don't care!!

Does anyone outside America heard the expression "Jimmy Crack Corn" outside of Futurama? Canadian my ass.

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends.
Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous
behavior!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you
choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed
by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:

It's a well known fact that not spreading chain letters written by jingoistic myopic morons causes terrorism.

'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference
in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.'

Making a difference isn't a good thing. Hitler made a difference.

I have another quote that I would like to add, AND.......I hope you
forward all this.

One last thought for the day:
Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The British Soldier.
3. The Canadian Soldier.
4. The US Soldier, and
5. The Australian Soldie
One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom.

What about Indian, the police and soldiers being trained in Afghanistan etc. etc.

P.S. I don't think soldiers sign up to die, I think they sign up to fight and serve?

YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET ALL OF THEM.
AMEN!

Because this is a totally secular email about the rights of the individual and totally unbiased towards Bush or Christianity. It's also TOTALLY from Canada.

[Twoyboy]

Thanks Sinewmire, that was hilarious.

A couple of things to add:

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable
by beheading in Afghanistan ..

Belief in the bible punishment by beheading? How do you prove belief? What about the peaceable non-Terrorist muslims? Are you saying the Qu'oran is void because of the actions of a powerful few? Surely the same could be said of the bible?

I love how they have to start "caring" about the Bible... you know, just like she cares about the Qu'oran...

'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference
in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.'

Making a difference isn't a good thing. Hitler made a difference.

Lets not forget that the insurgents who fly planes into buildings and conduct suicide bombings made a difference too, arguably a far larger one that any soldier.

[PeZook]

Remember, the US, UK, Canada and Australi are the only free countries in the world.

Others criticize the US too much, so they're obviously full of weak-willed terrorist muslim sympathizers.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Hey, why's this bitch dragging the UK into this? We don't give a shit about the Bible any more and we sure as fuck didn't want to get dragged into one of America's highly succesfful "War on..." series of fuck-ups.

Also, a lot of Russians and other Europeans died for freedom too, if she's alluding to WWII there (and even if she's not).

I'm sure people have got better things to do than rip apart another Anglo-centric, Bible bashing, wargasm enjoying chain e-mail of assholery.

[Setzer]

Also, that line about running for Prime Minister...

IIRC, in the UK parliamentarian system, people don't vote for individual politicians, they vote for a particular party, and the party that has the majority in the legislature appoints a Prime Minister. Do Canada and Australia have a similar system?

[Norseman]

As-Salamu Alaykum my brothers and sisters in Islam.

This was written by an Iraqi muslima, but oh how it also applies to Iran, Afghanistan, and Arabia!

Here is a woman who should be made an emir!

‘Are we fighting a defensive Jihad or aren’t we? Was it or was it not started by the kafir who brought it to our shores in November 1947 and have continually attacked the Ummah ever since? Have they not invaded and conquered two emirates of the Ummah, both my Iraq and Afghanistan?

Were not the armies of the entire Ummah attacked as a result? Were not hundreds of thousands of Muslims forced to flee into the desert to settle in refugee camps?

Have not thousands of Afghans, Iraqis, and Iranian women and children died horrible, burning or crushing deaths in this Jihad or haven’t they?

And I'm supposed to care about the bleating of a few kafir upset about the mercenaries who were executed by the brave Mujaheed defending their countries!

I'll start caring when George Bush converts to Islam and repents for killing all those thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan!

I'll care about the bible when the kafir and blasphemers in the west start caring about the Holy Koran, which is constantly blasphemed against and mocked by the kafir in the west!

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for bombing wedding parties in Afghanistan, while the families screamed in terror and tried to save their loved ones!

I’ll care when the cowardly so called “soldiers” of America come out and fight like men, instead disrespecting their own manhood and religion by sitting five hundred miles behind the frontline and dropping bombs on civilians!

I’ll care when the mindless fanatics who drop bombs in the name of Jesus care about the innocent children within range of their explosives!

I'll care when the governments in Muslim countries stop pretending that everything is fine and business as usual and that keeping the law and order is more important than the lives of the Mujaheed out in the field or the state of their families waiting at home.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a MUSLIM mujaheed roughing up a western mercenary soldier to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

When I see a wounded western soldier get shot in the head when he’s told to surrender and not say anything because he might call in an airstrike, then by Allah!

I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was given precious food that the starving children in the country he is in is often denied, and given ample chance to convert to Islam, and then complains of his mistreatment, you can absolutely believe in your
heart of hearts:

I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I’ve noticed that sometimes they yatter about Freedom, other times Democracy. Well, as you might have guessed:

I don't care!!

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by Kafir happen in the Ummah! And may I add:

'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Mujaheed don't have that problem.'

I have another quote that I would like to add, AND.......I hope you forward all this.

One last thought for the day:

Only three defining forces have ever offered to die for you:

1. The Imam Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib

2. The Afghan Mujaheed.

3. The Iraqi Mujaheed.

All of them died to protect the deen and REAL freedom!


YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET ALL OF THEM.

AMIN!

[Norseman]

Oh and please feel free to spread my "corrected" version around

[Coyote]

To be fair, when a Westerner is captured by the Taliban/Insurgents/Al-Quaeda, they usually don't survive long enough to be "roughed up", they get beheaded and in Daniel Pearl's case, at least, quite brutally. It is worth criticism.

However, that certainly doesn't justify that it is therefore "okay" to torture their prisoners in return, especially since --ideally-- we're supposed to be presenting our society as the better alternative to their weird 14th-century theocracy one.

That said, it is the typical unimaginitive bog-standard redneck Christian jingoist bullshit that has been brought out all too often in all this. As for this being an American, maybe, but please-- every country has these stupid inbred rednecks among their population. I don't remember my Canadian social geography, but isn't Saskatchewan supposed to be the "Canadian redneck" territory, the way we look at the Appalachians, Ozarks, etc?

[Setzer]

Here's the response I sent back, in a little chain letter of my own.

Thought you might like to read this letter to the editor ~ ever notice how
some people just seem to know how to write a letter?.


This one does!


This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the
U.S., U.K. . and Australia

Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!


Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper.


'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?

Why does she say "our shores?" She's Canadian. At least she claims to be. Why doesn't she say "America's Shores?"
And Bush was the only one who declared a war on Terror. He made an ass of himself internationally. I remember all that "Old Europe" and "Freedom Fries" Nonsense because the rest of the world was less then eager to join his personal vendetta against Saddam.

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in
downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a
field in Pennsylvania ?


Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning
or crushing death that day, or didn't they?


And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured
by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in
a brutal insurgency.

Well, I had hoped you would consider torture and brutality the methods of the enemy, and say we shouldn't emulate them. But I suppose no matter how low I set the bar, you'll find a way to get under it.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

And once he repents, everything will be hunky dory? Even children learn that simply saying you're sorry doesn't absolve you of all wrongdoing. It's a shame that you haven't.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable
by beheading in Afghanistan ..

They also oppressed Buddhists and Muslims that aren't of the Wahabbist sect, but since they're just a bunch of filthy heathens who cares? I suppose Christianity is the only religion that matters to you, right? All the Canadians I've spoken to tend to be more secular. I don't suppose this is an American pretending to be a Canadian? But what are the odds of that?

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off
Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

Why? Saying they're sorry isn't going to put his head back on. And why do you treat beheading as the ultimate of atrocities? It's over in a second. Back in the medieval era it was considered a humane form of execution. Torture can last for years. If you'd ever been waterboarded, you'd probably be begging to have your throat cut.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come out
and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques and behind women and children.

Is this "Stand up and fight like a man" crap for real? You might as well say we were cowardly for using aircraft in Afghanistan instead of relying exclusively on ground troops. You might as well say the Marines in World War 2 were cowardly for using bombers and naval fire support for their landings instead of simply fixing bayonets and charging in like the Japanese they beat.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

Nirvana isn't an Islamic concept. It's the ultimate objective of Hinduism and Buddhism. I mean really, all the press has been about the proverbial 72 virgins. How ignorant and bigoted do you have to be to forget a detail that's been mentioned so often? I suppose you think Jews believe in reincarnation, or that the Voodoo doll is a Sikh tradition? Really, you write about other religions like they're some mythical creature you couldn't be bothered to research properly. It's like you're saying "The only way to kill a Mummy is to shoot it with a silver bullet!"

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of
speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something
happens.

I'll care when you get your facts straight and stop lying about your nationality in a pathetic attempt to appear impartial.

I find it ironic how you can exalt soldiers for fighting for people's freedoms then get all angry when people exercise those freedoms. A freedom you can't use isn't freedom at all.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up
an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

Well, I prefer to think that I live in a country where suspicion alone doesn't constitute a crime, and where innocence is something that's assumed, rather then up to the defendant to prove. Besides, if someone was beating me up for information, I'd do what people have always done and tell them whatever they want to hear to get the beatings to stop.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:


I don't care.

So murder is only a bad thing when white Christians are being killed? You know that America, Australia, Britain, and Canada all signed humanitarian war treaties that forbid shooting enemy wounded? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to follow rules they said they would follow.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and
fed 'special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that
his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your
heart of hearts:


I don't care.

So beheading people for believing in the Bible is wrong, but oppressing Muslims is A-OK?

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and
other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,


I don't care!!

Why is a Canadian mentioning an American folk song?

Also, it's spelled in different fashions because of differences between the Arabic and Roman alphabets. It happens when you take a sound based alphabet and translate it to a letter based alphabet. I thought the linguistic differences were kinda neat, but I'm not a small minded Christian fundamentalist liar.

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends.
Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous
behavior!


If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you
choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed
by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:


'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference
in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.'

I served in the military, and one thing that was impressed on me was how individuals couldn't make a difference. It was all about individuals being subservient to the larger organization. You would know that if you'd ever served in the military, or weren't too lazy to research the military properly.

I have another quote that I would like to add, AND.......I hope you
forward all this.


One last thought for the day:


Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:


1. Jesus Christ


2. The British Soldier.


3. The Canadian Soldier.


4. The US Soldier, and


5. The Australian Soldier


One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom.

Yes, that's right, because NO ONE ELSE fought in World War 2. It's not like the French resistance gave vital information to the Normandy landings. It's not like the Poles in the Warsaw ghetto fought so hard that the Nazis couldn't beat them after literally bringing in bombers. It's not like Thai army or the Dutch fleet fought the Japanese. It's not like the Norwegian resistance helped destroy the Nazi A-bomb projects. And who cares about the 40 million dead Russians? They were Untermenschen, they should have been honored to sacrifice their lives for their betters!!!!!

Only Australia, America, Britain, and Canada had anything to do with winning World War 2. Out of hundreds of nations in the world, only these 4 matter. Out of all the religions in the world, only Christianity matters. Right...

YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET ALL OF THEM.


AMEN!

[/quote]


You mentioned earlier how so few people know how to write a letter. Well, you can count yourself among their ranks. I learned back in Kindergarten not to write in all capitals, but maybe the curriculum was different back in your day. Or maybe you're simply too stupid and small minded to learn anything that doesn't revolve around God and Guns.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

As for this being an American, maybe, but please-- every country has these stupid inbred rednecks among their population. I don't remember my Canadian social geography, but isn't Saskatchewan supposed to be the "Canadian redneck" territory, the way we look at the Appalachians, Ozarks, etc?

How dare you!?! Alberta is the rightful Canadian redneck territory!

[Coyote]

Ahh, Alberta, that's right-- sorry, Saskatchewanis.

I think it is because the name "Saskatchewan" reminds me of "Sasquatch", which I think of not as a hominid-cryptid of legend but more as a redneck forest hobo.

[OsirisLord]

This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the
U.S., U.K. . and Australia

Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!

Because that's what Canada needs in it's Prime Minister. A violent, angry, reactionary fundamentalist.

Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper.


'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?


Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in
downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a
field in Pennsylvania ?

I believe that was in America. Why are you acting like it was your country that was under attack? In fact Canada has never been hit by any terrorist attack, unlike America or Britain. Why is that? Is it because those other two are imperialistic countries with far reaching foreign interests which happen to often or not stir up a beehive of the religiously insane time and again with their muscling in on other people's culture and instilling their own values. Oh wait these are those silly Muslims who like to attack poor innocent countries without provocation.

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning
or crushing death that day, or didn't they?


And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured
by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in
a brutal insurgency.

Yeah and as Prime Minister what assurances will you give your people you won't allow them to stoop to that level. Like America did under bush.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.


I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable
by beheading in Afghanistan ..

Or belief in the Torah. Or Rig Vedas. Or the writings of Buddha and Confucius. Funny how you don't mention how Buddhism was like wise oppressed under the Taliban, and how the world famous giant Buddhas of Afghanistan were destroyed by them. But no you're Christians, so despite nearly 1,500 years of undisputed dominance over the western world you still scream persecution at the slightest chance. People want to teach evolution in schools. Those atheists are persecuting us!

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off
Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come out
and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques and behind women and children.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

Mixing Buddhism with Islam. Big mistake.

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of
speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something
happens.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up
an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

Basically what you just said is that the freedoms those soldiers are fighting for are worth less then the lives they gave to defend those freedoms. That's not a resounding encouragement of the military by any stretch of the imagination you know that right?

I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:

I don't care.


When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and
fed 'special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that
his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your
heart of hearts:

I don't care.

"And surely they will know we are Christians by our love"

What? Oh did I say something?

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and
other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,


I don't care!!

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends.
Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous
behavior!

And they'll see the people they're fighting against are a bunch of despicable, violent bigots who don't care about them at all and think their lives are nothing compared to them and their comfort. Yes, I'm sure the terrorists will gladly think long and hard about what they've done.

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you
choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed
by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:

What country do you live in?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Ahh, Alberta, that's right-- sorry, Saskatchewanis.

I think it is because the name "Saskatchewan" reminds me of "Sasquatch", which I think of not as a hominid-cryptid of legend but more as a redneck forest hobo.

Boo-urns.

Though this is a tangent, Saskatchewan does have a bit of a Redneck quality to it. There are deep-seated veins of racism against our First Nations people, but that's only because Saskatchewan (and to a lesser extent Manitoba, to our East, and even less relevant region) is pretty much the only place aside from the territories where there remains a large enough minority of First Nations people for them to be visible.

And while we are also riddled by crime and stds compared to most of Canada, we certainly can't be called a conservative shithole, since Jack Bauer's grandpa (THE GREATEST CANADIAN) gave us Communism and socialized healthcare.

[Ritterin Sophia]

You may want to remind your grandmother that Azerbaijan is 95% Muslim, Turkey is 97% Muslim, and Uzbekistan is 90% Islam. What do they all have in common? They're all members of the 'Coalition of the Willing' and provided resources for Multinational Force-Iraq.

76% of the United Arab Emirates is Muslim. They alongside Azerbaijan and Turkey provided troops for the War in Afghanistan under ISAF.

Turkey also sent troops under it's NATO commitments and Azerbaijan under the EAPC to Afghanistan. Jordan (92% Muslim) provided troops to construct a medical facility. Kazakhstan (65% Muslim) is preparing to send troops for ISAF.

Not to mention the muslims killed in 9/11.

[Millenniumfalsehood]

Ah yes, the infamous "We must hate all Muslims because they unilaterally attacked us!" letter. I get these every once in a while (mainly because my dad forwards them to me). For the record, I'm moderate with some conservative leanings, and Christian (though I believe that as long as you know we don't approve of something, which is virtually impossible to be ignorant of here in the 'States, I have no business lecturing you about your attitudes and beliefs, so I won't).

I believe we were justified in returning the favor, but I think we should have been out of there before now, and we had no business extending the war to include Iraq. I also believe that Obama is lax on homeland security because of the number of terror attacks that have occurred on US soil since he took presidency (other than 9/11, there were no attacks on our soil during the Bush years. Heh heh, he managed not to screw up at least *one* thing).

That being said, here's my response:

This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the
U.S., U.K. . and Australia

Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!

Oh yes, I really want an inflexible reactionary to be Prime Minister. Not just the Minister of Defense, but Prime Minister.

Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper.


'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?

It was a particular subset of Islamic people, not Islam as a whole. Though their Quran does indeed teach that one should kill others if they do not convert (it does say this, and I'm assured by students and professors of the Quran that it must be interpreted this way; the 'peaceful Islam' stuff that some people spout is pure BS), most Muslims want peace because, frankly, they're tired of idiots in power over there using religion as an excuse to conquer whole countries and oppressing their people.

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in
downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a
field in Pennsylvania ?

Actually they were contained to a small portion of New York's population. "World Trade Center" did not mean it was an internationally run building; it was a building full of Americans who helped oversee world-wide trade relations (IIRC). While a lot of people died at the Pentagon, casualties were relatively light in Pennsylvania. "People from all over the world" is an attempt to inflame people and inspire hatred against a religion, something I'm whole-heartedly against.

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning
or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

Of course they did. Anyone who says otherwise is a buffoon.

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured
by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in
a brutal insurgency.

Actually, YES YOU ARE! If you are a *tenth* the person you claim to be, you would be appalled by torture of *any* person. The desire for torture is more from the perspective of extracting our 'pound of flesh' than it is about any true desire to obtain information. I'll freely admit that some cases have led to the capture or destruction of many terrorist cells in both Afghanistan and Iraq. However, I'll never be comfortable with the idea of torture of any kind.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

Yeah, as if that will happen.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable
by beheading in Afghanistan ..

Actually, many average Muslims are willing to give the Bible a read (and as you stated, the only reason they don't is fear of death). Fanatics on the other hand, by their very nature, will *never* read a Bible. If they did, they would no longer be fanatics, would they?

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off
Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

Okay, that one gets me. I'm sorry, but if your system of punishment still includes beheadings, it's time to rethink your laws.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come out
and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques and behind women and children.

Can't argue with that one.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

Gotta admit, I'm hard pressed to see this as anything other than a legitimate beef.

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of
speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something
happens.

If she's referring to the media's desire to get a story which clearly endangers a military operation, she's right. Unfortunately for her, most stories like this don't reveal anything that would endanger soldiers, because if they did it would be treasonous. I don't know about Canadian law, but here in the US that is punishable by the death penalty in a time of war. I doubt a reporter, no matter how zealous he/she is, would be willing to risk that (though it's certainly possible).

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up
an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

Then you have NO RIGHT to brandish Christian rhetoric.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:

I don't care.

In war-time conditions, you would be correct. If you're referring to something happening at a prison or someplace where you would not be forgiven in a court of law for taking a life of any kind, it's absolutely heartless and makes us no different than the enemy.

Remember "Shutter Island"? When those soldiers brutally murdered the POWs at the concentration camp, it was not justified, no matter how many innocent Jews were killed by these same men.

The fundamentalists may be animals, but that's no excuse to sink to their level.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and
fed 'special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that
his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your
heart of hearts:

I don't care.

Actually I believe this should apply to all prisoners: if you have done something that a judge or jury deemed heinous enough to warrant incarceration, you have no right to complain about how you are treated!

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and
other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,


I don't care!!

She is right on this one. Anyone who complains about how Quran is spelled is a nit-picker.

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends.
Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous
behavior!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you
choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed
by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country!

"If you're not with me . . . then you're my enemy!!" I'm pretty sure it wasn't Obi-Wan who said that . . .

And may I add:

'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference
in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.'

Good quote in my book.

I have another quote that I would like to add, AND.......I hope you
forward all this.


One last thought for the day:

Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:

1. Jesus Christ
2. The British Soldier.
3. The Canadian Soldier.
4. The US Soldier, and
5. The Australian Soldier

One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom.

Jesus Christ did die for everyone, but forcing everyone to conform to your particular belief system is the *antithesis* of what he preached!

As for the rest, I'm pretty sure none save the American soldier died for my freedom. As I recall, the last time they did that was the American Revolution.

(btw: that's not to say I don't appreciate the services of any members of the armed forces of any country on this board! You guys have the hardest job in the world, and I thank you for your enduring sacrifices to keep bad people from controlling the world)

YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET ALL OF THEM.

AMEN!

Thanks, I'd rather they *didn't* think I was an over-zealous right-wing conservative.

[Samuel]

I also believe that Obama is lax on homeland security because of the number of terror attacks that have occurred on US soil since he took presidency (other than 9/11, there were no attacks on our soil during the Bush years. Heh heh, he managed not to screw up at least *one* thing).

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/07/04/l ... .shooting/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid_(shoe_bomber)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Helder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_Sniper_Attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_R ... SUV_attack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omeed_Aziz_Popal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_ ... h_shooting
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... _injuries/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/15/ore ... index.html

Though their Quran does indeed teach that one should kill others if they do not convert (it does say this, and I'm assured by students and professors of the Quran that it must be interpreted this way; the 'peaceful Islam' stuff that some people spout is pure BS), most Muslims want peace because, frankly, they're tired of idiots in power over there using religion as an excuse to conquer whole countries and oppressing their people.

Ever heard the story of the Golden Calf?

As for "kill if you don't convert" the presence of Coptics in Egypt, the tolerance displayed by the rulers of India, Spainish and Ottoman Islamic empires far exceeded that standard. Islam is against non-believers, but it does not require their deaths if they refuse- you just charge them higher taxes.

Fanatics on the other hand, by their very nature, will *never* read a Bible. If they did, they would no longer be fanatics, would they?

No, they would be Isaac from the bible... oh wait, that is worse.

Okay, that one gets me. I'm sorry, but if your system of punishment still includes beheadings, it's time to rethink your laws.

Why? Is there anything worse about choping a mans head of than hanging him?

Can't argue with that one.

I'm sure the red coats thought the same thing about the colonists. Of course we did come out and fight... when we had an overwhelming advantage.

Gotta admit, I'm hard pressed to see this as anything other than a legitimate beef.

If suicide bombers didn't target locations near children, we'd put important things near schools.

Unfortunately for her, most stories like this don't reveal anything that would endanger soldiers, because if they did it would be treasonous. I don't know about Canadian law, but here in the US that is punishable by the death penalty in a time of war. I doubt a reporter, no matter how zealous he/she is, would be willing to risk that (though it's certainly possible).

In the US treason is

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

something I doubt that would violate. Even under the fascists Woodrow Wilson, people who criticized the government were not charged with treason.

Actually I believe this should apply to all prisoners: if you have done something that a judge or jury deemed heinous enough to warrant incarceration, you have no right to complain about how you are treated!

Yeah, because the criminal justice system, unlike every other branch of the government, has a flawless record of finding the right person.

[The Spartan]

Actually I believe this should apply to all prisoners: if you have done something that a judge or jury deemed heinous enough to warrant incarceration, you have no right to complain about how you are treated!

Yeah, because the criminal justice system, unlike every other branch of the government, has a flawless record of finding the right person.

To add to this, the US Constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment so if you're not being treated within the guidelines set forth by precedent regarding this portion of said Constitution, then, yes, you have every right to complain.

[Millenniumfalsehood]

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/07/04/l ... .shooting/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid_(shoe_bomber)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Helder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_Sniper_Attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_R ... SUV_attack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omeed_Aziz_Popal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_ ... h_shooting
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... _injuries/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/15/ore ... index.html

Okay, I concede that point.

Ever heard the story of the Golden Calf?

It doesn't apply; that was when the Israellites were still under the old law. Christians worship under the new law.

As for "kill if you don't convert" the presence of Coptics in Egypt, the tolerance displayed by the rulers of India, Spainish and Ottoman Islamic empires far exceeded that standard. Islam is against non-believers, but it does not require their deaths if they refuse- you just charge them higher taxes.

Uh, yeah. Ask someone who lived in the Middle East sometime. A couple from a church I've visited (Tonkawa Church of Christ, I believe) moved there to 'experience the Holy Land'. They were threatened to give up their religion or face taxation. When they refused to pay taxes to placate an extremist government, they invaded their home, killed the husband, and took the wife into custody. She was released after several weeks of torture and after she made an official statement denouncing Christianity and stating that Islam was the one true religion. We're still shaken up by that.

It may not be as widespread as some report, but it's not uncommon.

No, they would be Isaac from the bible... oh wait, that is worse.

That doesn't even make sense; Isaac was dead for a thousand years before the bible was complete.

Why? Is there anything worse about choping a mans head of than hanging him?

When was the last hanging in the US? On the other hand, they *still* stone people over there, too.

I'm sure the red coats thought the same thing about the colonists. Of course we did come out and fight... when we had an overwhelming advantage.

The colonists didn't strap bombs to women and children and walk them into the camps of British soldiers.

If suicide bombers didn't target locations near children, we'd put important things near schools.

So you're okay with the suicide bombers not caring about whether they murder innocent bystanders?

In the US treason is

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

something I doubt that would violate. Even under the fascists Woodrow Wilson, people who criticized the government were not charged with treason.

Gathering information about the operations of the military or CIA and writing about them clearly endangers the lives of soldiers and operatives, which obviously aids the enemy.

Yeah, because the criminal justice system, unlike every other branch of the government, has a flawless record of finding the right person.

Yeah, and every person ever incarcerated was totally innocent. Gotcha.

Saying we need to be good to all prisoners because a few are innocent is a bit like saying we can't eat mushrooms because some are poisonous.

And I *sure* hope you're not implying the rest of the government (past or present) is flawless.

[Samuel]

It doesn't apply; that was when the Israellites were still under the old law. Christians worship under the new law.

So Christianity is based upon the belief that the entire old testament exists because... God wanted to fuck around with the Jews?

They were threatened to give up their religion or face taxation. When they refused to pay taxes to placate an extremist government, they invaded their home, killed the husband, and took the wife into custody.

Believe it or not, all governments get pissed if you don't pay taxes. Of course, I specifically mentioned that Islam required higher taxes of non-believers (the justification was origionally that it would be used to support the Muslims who were waging war, but it was kept after 750 because the government liked having money).

She was released after several weeks of torture and after she made an official statement denouncing Christianity and stating that Islam was the one true religion. We're still shaken up by that.

It may not be as widespread as some report, but it's not uncommon.

It varies alot. Afghanistan and Malaysia can execute you for apostacy (yes, our client state. Don't you love democracy?), while Turkey, Egypt and some of the others don't. Generally ones that are poor shitholes or are rich with insane wealth inequality are going to be the more egregious ones.

That doesn't even make sense; Isaac was dead for a thousand years before the bible was complete.

He believed that you should follow what God says unquestioningly. Like killing your son. Of course God interceded at the last moment to inform him it was just a test, so if God doesn't intercede for you it means he is okay with what you are doing.

When was the last hanging in the US? On the other hand, they *still* stone people over there, too.

We just had a firing squad execution in Utah and we routinely do lethel injection. Hanging hasn't been done for over a century. My mistake.

The colonists didn't strap bombs to women and children and walk them into the camps of British soldiers.

Hey, equality amoung the sexes is a good thing. The children part is amoral, but I don't think that is a common tactic. Do you have any numbers for how many people are killed that way?

So you're okay with the suicide bombers not caring about whether they murder innocent bystanders?

Any fighting will kill innocent bystanders. I'm against it if it is targeted at innocent bystanders.

Gathering information about the operations of the military or CIA and writing about them clearly endangers the lives of soldiers and operatives, which obviously aids the enemy.

Not at all. Only if you reveal information unavailable from other sources that would be beneficial to the enemy. And if it is intentional. Which is damn hard to prove.

Yeah, and every person ever incarcerated was totally innocent. Gotcha.

The criminal justice system by its very nature must incarcerate innocent people. That is the nature of reasonable doubt and ignoring incompetance in the system.

While increasing the inhumanity of the prison system is a good way to deter people, it can alienate prisoners from the rest of society and makes people who are already criminals more dangerous. After all, if prisons are absolute shitholes horrific enough to deter criminals from commiting crimes, they are bad enough that criminals are willing to go further to prevent their incarceration.

Saying we need to be good to all prisoners because a few are innocent is a bit like saying we can't eat mushrooms because some are poisonous.

Yes, we know exactly how many prisoners are innocent... oh wait, we don't. If we did they wouldn't be in prison. Well, except for the times were we channeled Stalin and declared that innocence was irrelevant to your release.

And I *sure* hope you're not implying the rest of the government (past or present) is flawless.

The government is pretty good when it comes to redistributive programs (it runs them significantly better than the private sector). Everything else it runs with the competance of a large corporation. Some parts are well motivated and close knit, others are filled with political backstabbing, infighting and waste.

[PeZook]

Since Millenniumfalsehood believes criminals should be treated with arbitrary amounts of cruelty no matter their crime, I guess it would be a good idea to go back to the merry olden times where highway robbery got you drawn and quartered, so that robbers, home invaders and muggers are encouraged to murder all potential witnesses.

Punishments became varied as apprehension rates became better for a reason.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

Actually they were contained to a small portion of New York's population. "World Trade Center" did not mean it was an internationally run building; it was a building full of Americans who helped oversee world-wide trade relations (IIRC). While a lot of people died at the Pentagon, casualties were relatively light in Pennsylvania. "People from all over the world" is an attempt to inflame people and inspire hatred against a religion, something I'm whole-heartedly against.

Unbe-frigging-lievable! You're new here, but if you want to be more than just a chew toy, you have a steep learning curve ahead of you. As for this notion that only 'mericans were killed in 9/11, see this.

It's also amusing that you think "World Trade Center" means they helped oversee world-wide trade relations. Even my city of Edmonton has one, so I guess we also help oversee world-wide trade relations!

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something happens.

If she's referring to the media's desire to get a story which clearly endangers a military operation, she's right. Unfortunately for her, most stories like this don't reveal anything that would endanger soldiers, because if they did it would be treasonous. I don't know about Canadian law, but here in the US that is punishable by the death penalty in a time of war. I doubt a reporter, no matter how zealous he/she is, would be willing to risk that (though it's certainly possible).

First of all, we Canadians are not so hung up on freedom of speech as are Americans. For example, we actually have laws forbidding hate speech. But that's beside the point.

One ongoing issue very much in the news up here for the last 7+ months is that of what happened to Afghan detainees handed over to Afghan authorities, and exactly what did our government know. The government is hiding behind the facade that the information is classified and is smearing the whistle blowers while the media and the opposition are hounding the government for the facts. This has nothing to do with the safety of our soldiers.

There's so much more, but Samuel is already into that.